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Rank: Driver's License
#1 Posted : Friday, November 1, 2019 11:34:39 AM(UTC)
UPDATE - New Track to race on Monday -- Homestead-Miami Speedway -- Mini Circuit [DAY] -- My BEST clean lap 1:03.835 - avg about 1:04.5 (my best was pure luck lol)

Car build and current tune posted

Hi Everyone,

Trying to tune my CRX for a race league....

Weight is 2077lbs
Weight Distribution is %57

no aero

Our max HP allowed was 200, i'm at 199 and I believe 141 ft lbs trq.

Racing tires and all race everything (suspension, gearbox, etc.)


I've been racing since Forza2 - but never was any good at 'fine tuning'... All I can try is using calculators then go 'by feel' ... but here's my problems.

Running Maple Valley Short Reverse in Daytime... My fastest time achieved is 44.9. My problem is, this is with the STOCK tunes (I have only lowered tire PSI and ride height and transmission gearing changes).

So I found 'nedge2k's FM7 Tuning Calculator' - punched in the values and adjusted the settings. First thought was the car def seems easier to handle around the track, but I can't squeeze any faster lap times out of it. I moved the slider in the calculator to a stiffer car, and it seemed to get harder to control (i think this track is bumpy)... I changed to a softer setting, the car handling got a little better, but times cannot improve. when I say 44.9, that was absolute fastest clean lap... Avg laps with all these tunes is 45.0 - 45.5.

What I don't find online or in calculators is how to get max grip... for example in maple valley short reverse, the most crucial corner is the long sweeping left u turn (last turn).
I would think there should be specific suspension/rebound/arb, etc for Long sweeping turns vs fast tight turns? or is it all 'by feel'. again the softer tune calc settings 'feel' better for me, but didn't affect my lap times one bit....

My plans now are to change over to gearing. 3rd gear is short in 1 small section and I have to shift to 4th then back down... If i can extend 3rd it may... or may not... help a little.??

I just want to squeeze everything out of this little CRX and I don't know how to do it. Any feedback is appreciated! :)

Edited by user Wednesday, November 6, 2019 12:29:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 3, 2019 12:08:58 AM(UTC)
Can you share your tune? I’ll have a look into it.
Rank: Racing Permit
#3 Posted : Sunday, November 3, 2019 8:38:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post
...I moved the slider in the calculator to a stiffer car, and it seemed to get harder to control (i think this track is bumpy)... I changed to a softer setting, the car handling got a little better, but times cannot improve.

One thing to keep in mind: As your overall setup gets stiffer, you lose maximum potential grip but may gain more usable grip through a lower usable ride height and reduced body roll. Generally speaking you want to keep the setup as soft as you can without bottoming out on bumps or during hard cornering. Sounds like you've already kinda sussed that out. Check your suspension travel telemetry page and make sure the car isn't crashing to 100% on every bump and corner. As long as it's staying below (or just barely making it to) 100%, you're golden.

Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post
I would think there should be specific suspension/rebound/arb, etc for Long sweeping turns vs fast tight turns? or is it all 'by feel'. again the softer tune calc settings 'feel' better for me, but didn't affect my lap times one bit...

Camber angle and ARB settings are the two biggest contributors to mid-corner grip, and are (thankfully) pretty easy to set by checking your telemetry. If you're happy with the base setup your calculator is giving you, hit the track until you get a consistently fast lap (preferably one where you get said fast lap on the 3rd or 4th lap; sitting through a bunch of bad laps to check telemetry on the one good one sucks). Save the replay so you can refer back to it if needed.

For camber: Take a look at the 3-temperature-per-tire page for the entirety of your good lap. What you're looking for here is for your temps to be close to even across each outside tire during steady-state cornering. Don't worry about the inside tire during cornering, and don't worry about what the temperature spread looks like on the straights. Neither have much effect on the car's performance. If the outside of the tire is hotter than the inside (again, only while cornering), you need more negative camber on that end of the car. If the inside's hotter, you need less negative camber. It's OK if the temperature spread isn't perfect on every corner; try to keep it in a range that works OK for most corners and works great on the important ones. A (completely made up) example of what you're looking for on that big left-hand sweeper on Maple Valley Short Reverse:

Right Front
Ins: 210.5
Mid: 210.7
Out: 211.0

Right Rear
Ins: 208.3
Mid: 208.3
Out: 208.4

For ARBs: Go to the "grip circle" page. What you're looking for here is for the inside and outside tires of each set (so comparing front-to-front and rear-to-rear) to have roughly even (within a few degrees) grip percentages during steady-state cornering. That last left-hander is probably the best corner in the game to set ARBs on. Your drive wheels will have a higher percentage on the inside tire than the outside, but as long as it's not way higher or over 100% it should be OK. In a FWD car the front tires will probably have a much higher overall percentage than the rears (they're providing all the turning and lateral grip and acceleration, where the rears are just hanging out drinking beer and getting fat), as well. Not going to give an example here, as I have no idea what a good range will look like on your car. Watch the telemetry and use your best judgement.

Once those two are set, take the car back to the track until you get another consistently fast lap. Doesn't necessarily have to be your fastest ever; you just need one where you had a really good run on all the corners. Save that replay and review your telemetry for your tire temps and tire grip again. Make adjustments as necessary and repeat until you're happy with the setup.

Also remember: A good setup is a small part of a fast laptime. Once the car is stable and consistent, you're probably better off practicing the track than worrying about micro-managing the setup.

Edited by user Sunday, November 3, 2019 8:40:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: X-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Monday, November 4, 2019 9:02:59 PM(UTC)
.
Do you have a PI limit?? (Or, other details of your build and/or league requirements?) Thanks!

I built one up (200 HP), yet, not sure my PI and/or requirements are aligned with your needs. Will check your time at MVSCR to see if it is in Rivals and has the PI.

PRKid
.

Edited by user Monday, November 4, 2019 9:06:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: Driver's License
#5 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 7:50:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Mr Pinstripes Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post
...I moved the slider in the calculator to a stiffer car, and it seemed to get harder to control (i think this track is bumpy)... I changed to a softer setting, the car handling got a little better, but times cannot improve.

One thing to keep in mind: As your overall setup gets stiffer, you lose maximum potential grip but may gain more usable grip through a lower usable ride height and reduced body roll. Generally speaking you want to keep the setup as soft as you can without bottoming out on bumps or during hard cornering. Sounds like you've already kinda sussed that out. Check your suspension travel telemetry page and make sure the car isn't crashing to 100% on every bump and corner. As long as it's staying below (or just barely making it to) 100%, you're golden.

Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post
I would think there should be specific suspension/rebound/arb, etc for Long sweeping turns vs fast tight turns? or is it all 'by feel'. again the softer tune calc settings 'feel' better for me, but didn't affect my lap times one bit...

Camber angle and ARB settings are the two biggest contributors to mid-corner grip, and are (thankfully) pretty easy to set by checking your telemetry. If you're happy with the base setup your calculator is giving you, hit the track until you get a consistently fast lap (preferably one where you get said fast lap on the 3rd or 4th lap; sitting through a bunch of bad laps to check telemetry on the one good one sucks). Save the replay so you can refer back to it if needed.

For camber: Take a look at the 3-temperature-per-tire page for the entirety of your good lap. What you're looking for here is for your temps to be close to even across each outside tire during steady-state cornering. Don't worry about the inside tire during cornering, and don't worry about what the temperature spread looks like on the straights. Neither have much effect on the car's performance. If the outside of the tire is hotter than the inside (again, only while cornering), you need more negative camber on that end of the car. If the inside's hotter, you need less negative camber. It's OK if the temperature spread isn't perfect on every corner; try to keep it in a range that works OK for most corners and works great on the important ones. A (completely made up) example of what you're looking for on that big left-hand sweeper on Maple Valley Short Reverse:

Right Front
Ins: 210.5
Mid: 210.7
Out: 211.0

Right Rear
Ins: 208.3
Mid: 208.3
Out: 208.4

For ARBs: Go to the "grip circle" page. What you're looking for here is for the inside and outside tires of each set (so comparing front-to-front and rear-to-rear) to have roughly even (within a few degrees) grip percentages during steady-state cornering. That last left-hander is probably the best corner in the game to set ARBs on. Your drive wheels will have a higher percentage on the inside tire than the outside, but as long as it's not way higher or over 100% it should be OK. In a FWD car the front tires will probably have a much higher overall percentage than the rears (they're providing all the turning and lateral grip and acceleration, where the rears are just hanging out drinking beer and getting fat), as well. Not going to give an example here, as I have no idea what a good range will look like on your car. Watch the telemetry and use your best judgement.

Once those two are set, take the car back to the track until you get another consistently fast lap. Doesn't necessarily have to be your fastest ever; you just need one where you had a really good run on all the corners. Save that replay and review your telemetry for your tire temps and tire grip again. Make adjustments as necessary and repeat until you're happy with the setup.

Also remember: A good setup is a small part of a fast laptime. Once the car is stable and consistent, you're probably better off practicing the track than worrying about micro-managing the setup.


Thanks!! I can't wait to try this stuff out! It's exactly what I have been looking for. The race is over... however, I want to see if I can fine tune the car still and make any improvements. My fastest practicing came down to a 44.6 but my fastest in the race was 45.005 or something close. couldn't break into the 44's - must of been the nervs haha



Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#6 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 7:52:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR PRKid Go to Quoted Post
.
Do you have a PI limit?? (Or, other details of your build and/or league requirements?) Thanks!

I built one up (200 HP), yet, not sure my PI and/or requirements are aligned with your needs. Will check your time at MVSCR to see if it is in Rivals and has the PI.

PRKid
.


Hi PRKid,

We do have limits.. 200hp, over 2,000lbs and max PI of 547 I think?? However, the car setup/mods are set in stone since the series started. I can't go back and swap out parts... I can only tune the car from here out. my PI is something like 517 so i'm lowest rated car in the series but so far holding my own :)
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:38:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR PRKid Go to Quoted Post
.
Do you have a PI limit?? (Or, other details of your build and/or league requirements?) Thanks!

I built one up (200 HP), yet, not sure my PI and/or requirements are aligned with your needs. Will check your time at MVSCR to see if it is in Rivals and has the PI.

PRKid
.


Hi PRKid,

We do have limits.. 200hp, over 2,000lbs and max PI of 547 I think?? However, the car setup/mods are set in stone since the series started. I can't go back and swap out parts... I can only tune the car from here out. my PI is something like 517 so i'm lowest rated car in the series but so far holding my own :)


Glad you are doing well on the series. I will try to build it up per your insights, yet, be great if we had exact builds. I can pull together a tune, and, so can fifty or others as well. I am sure one of us can help you further (potentially per driver style)!

.


DJ Saoco
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 5:21:10 PM(UTC)
.
So, I went ahead and got a build with your same HP and just built it up to exactly 2000 LBs (56%) with a PI of B511. I ran 5 laps @ Maple Valley Short Reverse and managed a 0:44.896 (WW 79, AM 24, HC 11)
Not too bad for running up against B600 competition. The tune felt it need some additional turn-in response. I ran it via the Rivals Mode/Menu and left a ghost. Will try to tweak tune to be able to turn better.

Build - 199 HP, 137 LB-FT, 2000 LBs (56%), Stats = 5.7/5.7/6.8/5.5
===
CSC, Race P&H, Sport Clutch, Race Tranny/Diff, Race Compound, F225/40R16, R225/40R16, Superturismo GT rims,
16/16", Street Front Bumper (Kaminazi), Sport Rear Wing (Wings West), Street Rear Bumper (Kaminazi)

Tune
===
28.0/28.0, 4.50 // 2.89/1.99/1.49/1.16/0.94/0.78, -1.0/-0.6, +0.1/-0.1, 7.0, 31.80/39.80,
560.2/439.8, 6.9/7.5, 10.2/8.0, 2.5/2.0, na(x/x), 48/200 (Use your braking preference), 100/5


PRKid
.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 5, 2019 5:25:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Tuesday, November 5, 2019 5:22:09 PM(UTC)
.
I will modify (slightly) the Build and tweak Tune for a re-run.

Build changes = Took off the Sport Rear Wing, went to 17" rim size for front tires. Now at 2001 LBs.

Tune changes were: ARBs @ 30/40, Diff @ 100/0, would prefer even add'l changes to ARBs (try 26/40).

Quick test run yielded a 0:44.754 (had 2 dirties in the 6's)

UPDATE - with new ARBs (26/40) @ 0:44.510 [WW 65, AM 19, HC 9], can still certainly have a better run. Now, tweak the tune to your desire. Best of Luck!

PRKid
.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 5, 2019 8:21:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Wednesday, November 6, 2019 8:49:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post
Hi Everyone,

Trying to tune my CRX for a race league....

Weight is 2077lbs
Weight Distribution is %57

no aero

Our max HP allowed was 200, i'm at 199 and I believe 141 ft lbs trq.

Racing tires and all race everything (suspension, gearbox, etc.)


I've been racing since Forza2 - but never was any good at 'fine tuning'... All I can try is using calculators then go 'by feel' ... but here's my problems.

Running Maple Valley Short Reverse in Daytime... My fastest time achieved is 44.9. My problem is, this is with the STOCK tunes (I have only lowered tire PSI and ride height and transmission gearing changes).

So I found 'nedge2k's FM7 Tuning Calculator' - punched in the values and adjusted the settings. First thought was the car def seems easier to handle around the track, but I can't squeeze any faster lap times out of it. I moved the slider in the calculator to a stiffer car, and it seemed to get harder to control (i think this track is bumpy)... I changed to a softer setting, the car handling got a little better, but times cannot improve. when I say 44.9, that was absolute fastest clean lap... Avg laps with all these tunes is 45.0 - 45.5.

What I don't find online or in calculators is how to get max grip... for example in maple valley short reverse, the most crucial corner is the long sweeping left u turn (last turn).
I would think there should be specific suspension/rebound/arb, etc for Long sweeping turns vs fast tight turns? or is it all 'by feel'. again the softer tune calc settings 'feel' better for me, but didn't affect my lap times one bit....

My plans now are to change over to gearing. 3rd gear is short in 1 small section and I have to shift to 4th then back down... If i can extend 3rd it may... or may not... help a little.??

I just want to squeeze everything out of this little CRX and I don't know how to do it. Any feedback is appreciated! :)



Why no aero? Maple valley is an aero track and even if it wasnt the way aero works in FM is it basically just adds grip. Being a FWD car you are likely going to want a very stiff rear, very soft front to transfer as much of the weight onto the tyres doing the work as possible.

Tune can do some stuff, but build is where the time is really at. Have you removed every bit of weight you possibly can while staying as close to 200hp as possible. Also torque is arguably more important than hp. Is there any tyre width restrictions? For maple valley your goal is to get as much grip as possible and carry as much speed through corners as possible. This is much harder with a fwd then rwd but can be done as i think back to the old days of the chevy spark (even then in c class i think the elan was the better car here)

PTG Home

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Rank: Driver's License
#11 Posted : Wednesday, November 6, 2019 12:14:05 PM(UTC)
Thanks again everyone for all your help. The Build of the car is Frozen. I understand it's the most important part of the fastest lap times... and restrictions for this build did say no aero :)

UPDATE - New Track to race on Monday -- Homestead-Miami Speedway -- Mini Circuit [DAY] -- My BEST clean lap 1:03.835 - avg about 1:04.5 (my best was pure luck lol)

Here's my exact build:
Engine - Sport Fuel System, Race Engine Block --- rest is stock.

Platform and Handling - FULL RACE on everything except weight reduction is "Sport Weight Reduction"
Drive Train - Full race except stock driveline
Tires and rims - Race tires, full width, 18inch rims , Speedline F1 rims
Aero and Appearance - Kaminazi front bumber, Wings West rear wing, stock rear bumper

This gives me:
199HP
141 trq
2,077 LBS
57% weight

Speed 5.7
Handling 5.7
Accel 6.8
Breaking 5.5

Accel 0-60 - 5.888
0-100 15.3
1/4 14.195
top speed 138.3

Braking: 60-0 96.1ft
100-0 246ft

Lat G's 60mph - 1.26 120mph - 1.23



Here's my current tune:
Tires: Front 29 Rear 29.5

Gearing (tuned by wild guess - "seat of the pants feel" or sound even, no idea but feels okay to me)
Final Drive - 4.06
1st - 3.16
2nd - 2.50
3rd - 1.92
4th - 1.53
5th - 1.23
6th - 1.07

Camber:
Front -2.1
Rear -1.5

Toe 0

Front Caster Angle 6.4

Anti-Roll
Front 17.86
rear 12.10

Springs:
Front 391.1
rear 317.6

Ride Height:
Front 6.9
Rear 7.5

rebound:
Front 6.0
rear 4.5

bump
front 3.5
rear 2.5

break balance 47% (gave me best distances)
Pressure 85% (by feel)

Diff
Front Accel 65% Rear 0

Edited by user Wednesday, November 6, 2019 12:28:06 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Wednesday, November 6, 2019 6:03:07 PM(UTC)
Your tune already drives excellent here, not much to improve from my side.

However you may try these settings which were a little faster for me:
29/29
4.59 2.69/1.79/1.29/0.96/0.74/0.58
-1.2/-1.0 0.0/-0.1 6.0
8.76/17.10
320.0/421.8 6.9/7.5
8.3/8.3 4.2/4.2
46%/125%
48%/0%

For sure drives different than your tune so your milage may vary.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 6, 2019 6:04:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: X-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Wednesday, November 6, 2019 6:03:43 PM(UTC)
.
Gave your exact build, with the tune from previous, and, managed a 1:04.027 in 5 laps. Thus, seems that high 3's, low 4's should be doable in a consistent manner.

Best of luck!

PRKid
.


DJ Saoco
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#14 Posted : Wednesday, November 6, 2019 6:05:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Your tune already drives excellent here, not much to improve .


I agree with fifty!

PRKid
.


DJ Saoco
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2019 4:04:17 AM(UTC)
What is the car doing or not doing and what corner and more specifically part of the corner?

Seems like the car would understeer a lot with stiffer front arb then rear and stiffer front springs than rear. Yes I am aware all of the weight will be over the front so irl the springs should be stiffer.

Another thing accel on fwd should be at or darn near 100%.

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Rank: Driver's License
#16 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2019 12:35:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR PRKid Go to Quoted Post
.
Gave your exact build, with the tune from previous, and, managed a 1:04.027 in 5 laps. Thus, seems that high 3's, low 4's should be doable in a consistent manner.

Best of luck!

PRKid
.


Great! So you ran "fifty inch"'s tune setup or the one I posted?

Add me on XBL - if you get anytime this weekend (or if i have any time lol) maybe we can get in priv lobby and you can teach me to drive !! lol I'm usually racing C-class fwd online lobbies. I am horrible with RWD cars so likely my drive style is different than most ;)


I ran 18 laps with a best of 1:05.3 using fifty inch's tune. having the hardest time with adjusting to the longer gearing compared to my gearing setup - so more practice will likely drop these times down a bit too.

=
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#17 Posted : Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:23:42 PM(UTC)
You may alternatively try 4.59 fd and stock gear ratios but I think the longer ratios are better overall.

Also try Kids tune, works very well on that track too! I think he set the time with his tune.

Edited by user Thursday, November 7, 2019 1:27:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Saturday, November 9, 2019 6:49:56 AM(UTC)
Small update to my tune:

Gearing: 4.59 2.89/1.99/1.49/1.16/0.94/0.78 (stock ratios)
Ride Height: 7.0/7.6
Brakes: 48%/125%

Got me half a second compared to first tune.

This now gets me in the mid 1.04, since I’m not the fastest by any means a high/mid 1.03 should be possible.

Edited by user Saturday, November 9, 2019 9:56:07 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: X-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Saturday, November 9, 2019 11:11:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Lenze232 Go to Quoted Post


Great! So you ran "fifty inch"'s tune setup or the one I posted
=


No, neither! I ran your build, with my tune That I had posted earlier above.

PRKid
.


DJ Saoco

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