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Rank: Driver's License
#1 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 6:59:46 AM(UTC)
This has been going on for the last two weeks. It’s impossible for me to find any adventures that are not s1. If I'm lucky I might get an A class lobby with 1-3 ppl after waiting for 15+ minutes (while tuning cars to kill time).

So.. game dead or what? It’s holiday season over here, so shouldn't there be a lot of people playing?
Rank: Driver's Permit
#2 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 8:37:39 AM(UTC)
If you mean FH4, I could relate to this since there was like 9-10 people login in ranked events but the game is still active, the possible reason is because these players are minding their own business in a convoy, in a Forzathon event, applying decals to their cars or fine tuning them
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#3 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 8:56:31 AM(UTC)
Custom adventure ghosted is pretty dead currently, yes. Only in S1 road racing you'll find some players and always the same.
On top it became a very unpleasant experience lately due to lagging cars floating all over the place and these strange "slow motion, then hyperspeed" lags which kill all the fun.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#4 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 9:14:20 AM(UTC)
I have found A class ghost in the afternoons (Eastern time) at times. Never past around 6PM Eastern, than you have S1 and some S2 only. It is not heavily populated and the competition can be quite stiff. Most low level players quit pretty fast generally. You really have to know the tracks well in ghost. I wish I knew them better but I just have not played enough. Getting there. Custom I am glad to have but it is a bad system. It would be much better to just have a normal lobby system like Motorsport. Yea it may not be immersive but I would rather find more people. It is too much of a chance of not finding what you want so people don't bother. It is always the same people pretty much as stated before.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 13, 2019 6:02:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#5 Posted : Wednesday, August 7, 2019 10:37:18 AM(UTC)
It's not only ghost also collision races - just without freeroam - seems dead.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#6 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 2:35:20 AM(UTC)
Play with collisions. Most people in Unranked are driving for fun, not to win, anyway.
Rank: Driver's License
#7 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 3:06:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
Play with collisions. Most people in Unranked are driving for fun, not to win, anyway.


I do. All i turn off is freeroam rush.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#8 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 3:33:05 AM(UTC)
The whole feature is failing because most players try the feature and leave or fallback to S1 search in the following 30s with no answer.

whoever has already tried this feature in A800 knows that, once in, people come and go, sometime alone, sometimes 10 ...

I would consider worth to test allowing players to start championships even alone. racing alone is already better than waiting for a message to display. And for those searching, it would drastically increase the chances to find a championship.

Another solution would be to add some drivatars when number of players is under ... 6 for instance. Sadly this would require to be able to identify who is drivatar and who is not which is a new feature ... not going to happen.

Edited by user Sunday, August 11, 2019 3:42:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Neo open your mind, you are just a drivatar
Rank: Driver's License
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:29:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
The whole feature is failing because most players try the feature and leave or fallback to S1 search in the following 30s with no answer.

whoever has already tried this feature in A800 knows that, once in, people come and go, sometime alone, sometimes 10 ...

I would consider worth to test allowing players to start championships even alone. racing alone is already better than waiting for a message to display. And for those searching, it would drastically increase the chances to find a championship.

Another solution would be to add some drivatars when number of players is under ... 6 for instance. Sadly this would require to be able to identify who is drivatar and who is not which is a new feature ... not going to happen.


Not a bad idea but I highly doubt it the dev will do something about it. They've proved how incompetent they are ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Sunday, August 11, 2019 9:55:50 AM(UTC)
No drivatars. They're annoying to pass and pose no challenge once passed.

If the gameplay was good, more people would play. Main reasons I think it's not:

- Poor default setups that most people can't/shouldn't be expected to learn their way around given the obscurity of tuning (I've suggested numerous levels of fixes for this).
- Uninspired gamepad steering, particularly apathetic towards RWDs and Porsches, any amount of oversteer--refuses to play with the limit of rear grip.
- Random MP race types--I'm only willing to play A or S1 road, sometimes S2. Many searches queue a winter or rainy street lobby, so I cancel.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#11 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 5:31:53 AM(UTC)
because of stupid things like the rear wheel drive offroad seasonal championship... .. rear wheel drive offroad? yeah no thanks. see you next week forza.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#12 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:43:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
I would consider worth to test allowing players to start championships even alone. racing alone is already better than waiting for a message to display. And for those searching, it would drastically increase the chances to find a championship.


Great idea, Tilo. You may be on to something with the drivatars, too.



Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
If the gameplay was good, more people would play. Main reasons I think it's not:

- Poor default setups that most people can't/shouldn't be expected to learn their way around given the obscurity of tuning (I've suggested numerous levels of fixes for this).


A lot to unpack here...

Poor default setups? To what are you referring to, lobby setup or maybe stock cars? Why can't and/or shouldn't people learn it?? And why/how is it you think tuning is "obscure?"
I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 7:57:57 AM(UTC)
My 2¢...

The problem here, in my opinion, is twofold. First, there are too many online events/features and the overall pool of players actively attempting to join an online queue/lobby is spread too thin. In addition to regular gameplay queues/lobbies for single player Free-For-All Racing, Team Racing, Team Games, Ranked Free-For-All, Ranked Team Racing, Ranked Team Games, Seasonal Trial, Seasonal Team Games, Drifting and Ranked Drifting as well as any Co-op, PVP, and Game events someone may be trying to host in one of any number of Horizon Life's, Custom Adventures have further diluted multiplayer by offering too much customization. While Custom Dirt and Cross Country now have *no* customization options past the race type choice, the remaing race types (Road, Street, and All Racing) can have queues/lobbies going with any combination of S2/S1/A/B, Freeroam Rush On/Off, and Collision On/Off — that's sixteen different adventure combinations per the remaining three race types (48) plus the aforementioned off-roading w/o customization (2) for a total of fifty (50) different possible custom adventures that may (or may not) have their own line of queues/lobbies running!

All together, that is an awful lot of separate events possibly running at any given time, each potentially having an active string of queues/lobbies...or NOT, and therein lies the second half of the problem - players are blindfolded to viewing the number of queues/lobbies any event has and the number of players participating in each, if any are active at all! And when taking into consideration all that Horizon has to offer, from solo racing to painting/designing liveries to playlist activities and everything in between, time management becomes a factor when facing waiting in a queue for what feels like an eternity. When joining a queue, players are looking for "now" and have the very reasonable expectation that gameplay is forthcoming momentarily; blindfolding them from seeing lobby activity not only amplifys that expectation, but it robs them of productive time management. And while it's possible to begin doing something else while waiting to join, doing so and then getting interrupted isn't exactly desirable in the context of time management in a game with a myriad of consuming activities; it is little wonder that players have zero tolerance to wait an extra x# seconds. In short, with so many in-game competing interests, players don't want to feel like they're wasting any time, not even thirty seconds of it. Don't get me wrong, I generally enjoy all forms of most of the online adventures, and I'm glad and grateful we have custom adventures to the degree we do (for the most part), and I'm not bemoaning that anything is unnecessary nor am I advocating for anything to be removed...I'm just making an observation.

Sometimes, less is more. (But never in the case of the number of available playable cars, more is always better. Always. #carpacks)
I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: Driver's License
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 5:21:45 PM(UTC)
I stopped by last night to try out an unranked, collision-enabled race and it was a flat-out toxic environment for an event that should've inherently been understood by all as a "for-fun" race. For me, online racing in Horizon has been an utter turn-off aside from the unranked, collision-disabled races. So I've learned from experience that the best place to do online racing is at Motorsport. FM7 doesn't even have FRR deployed throughout its lobbies yet the players there don't race with the sort of unbridled rage that I see in Horizon -- and I think some of this may have to do with how players are being indoctrinated into FH4 through example of the "AI".

Anyway, I don't think that player etiquette is the main reason (or even a reason) why a good number of Horizon's online lobbies sit empty. FH4 is a "AAA" title with millions more downloads than FM7, yet there's much more impromptu, multiplayer activity to be found in FM7 despite it's large number of racing options. So it's really up to PG to look at the analytics and to see where people are spending their time in the game, how much time they're playing the game on a regular basis and the percentage of people who do not return to the game after their initial experience. However, I suspect that the issue of "empty" multiplayer lobbies in FH4 has to do with an existential problem with the game itself, and that it's something that can't be remedied or addressed solely through an update.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#15 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:21:55 PM(UTC)
The initial ghosting at race start and auto-ghosting for impending collisions cured most of the toxicity. If they had come with the game's release there might be more players around, still.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:47:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NumberlessMath Go to Quoted Post
The initial ghosting at race start and auto-ghosting for impending collisions cured most of the toxicity. If they had come with the game's release there might be more players around, still.


That, I totally agree with. 👌🏻
I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: Racing Permit
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#17 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 7:12:34 PM(UTC)
I think the game died so quickly because of the forced weekly "challenges" and lack of interesting POIs. It's sad to join empty lobbies all the time.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#18 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 10:20:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: v SATAN x Go to Quoted Post
I think the game died so quickly because of the forced weekly "challenges" and lack of interesting POIs. It's sad to join empty lobbies all the time.


Plenty still play the game

Rank: Driver's License
#19 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 12:13:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Baz828 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: v SATAN x Go to Quoted Post
I think the game died so quickly because of the forced weekly "challenges" and lack of interesting POIs. It's sad to join empty lobbies all the time.


Plenty still play the game



Would be nice to see some actual stats. Not just online player count but detailed for each event.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#20 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 2:31:43 AM(UTC)
For me the issue concerning the number of players by feature is not the number feature which is like having different games but the matchmaking. Game has to connect you with people willing the play the same.
That job was partly done by club feature, it has been mostly deprecated, no more message board, no week contribution, fuzzy mix on team/club making it so weird
The difficulty configuration is not even considered for online. Putting in the same race ultimate beginners and veterans is the best way ever to generate frustration.

Possible reason why FH seems empty, top first I see is 'Summer time' . there are more people inside house when it is minus 20 outside ( celsius :) )
After the list is long
- Promotion of ramming
- Social features reduced ( club, public chat, ... )
- Missing core features at game start
- Every single feature suffering a bottleneck. The little number on the map to indicate someone is proposing a race is just a fantastic joke
- Trying to lead players to play things there are not interested in
- Wait, wait blind, wait, retry, wait, wait
- Garage full, tunes limit reached, leader could not allow you to join, you have been disconnected, not enough players, ...
- don't you , don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you,

Custom championship is a great feature, it is done the wrong way.
- Player wants to race now, so game has to allow to start now. Think out of the rectangle, if there is no-one else to play with him, allow him to start solo. As soon as someone join next race switches to online players.
- As a player I want to play A800 ... As a player I want to play without freeroam ... As a player I want to play no collision .... Current feature is forcing player to pick a value for every parameter disregarding 95% of the players requests which are not involving all the criterias. BTW forcing collisions and freeroam for dirt and CC was the worst possible move.
- Custom cs should work as a google search, listing lobbies from the most matching to the less possibly including FFA, Team adventure etc lobbies because player WANTS TO PLAY NOW ... next championship, back to search results and so on...

Anyway game is now far too old to expect any improvement. People complain about normal wheel spin feeling their garage with duplicates, people complain about waiting time between online championships and still, 10 months after game release ,team looks stuck on the way to improve the situation.

Overall, game disregards player's profile which, at the time of google, Facebook and so on, looks like 30 years late on customizing user experience based on user activity.

Edited by user Friday, August 16, 2019 2:34:24 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Neo open your mind, you are just a drivatar
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Friday, August 16, 2019 12:19:58 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
For me the issue concerning the number of players by feature is not the number feature which is like having different games but the matchmaking. Game has to connect you with people willing the play the same.
That job was partly done by club feature, it has been mostly deprecated, no more message board, no week contribution, fuzzy mix on team/club making it so weird
The difficulty configuration is not even considered for online. Putting in the same race ultimate beginners and veterans is the best way ever to generate frustration.


It depends. For Drifting it's good to see what higher ranked players can pull on circuits. Sometimes it looks almost unreal. For Playground Games uneven teams like other have high ranking players with perhaps one unranked, and other team having one high ranked, two low ranked and rest of them unranked is pretty difficult situation to begin with and most importantly learning how to carry the team in certain moments, even a bit, is difficult to learn from setup like that. I'm struggling with that myself. I don't think it's about technological issues. Whatever they have used for balancing has worked, but now I'm afraid it's about that there just isn't enough players and teams are pulled from whatever is available.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

[..snip...]
- Promotion of ramming
- Missing core features at game start
- Trying to lead players to play things there are not interested in
- Garage full, tunes limit reached, leader could not allow you to join, you have been disconnected, not enough players, …

I think PG has done a lot to reduce ramming. I recall getting ranked when dive bombing was really common and it felt that sometimes it was up to dice where you end up. It's still there but far more manageable. I think far more problematic is that whole ranking system is messed up. It's really time consuming so recovering from bad match, for whatever reason that happens is way too time consuming to take seriously. Meanwhile what I have read, top players have stopped playing and it's practically impossible to reach higher ranks, because that's the way it works.

Can you expand what you consider these core features are?

I think there's good and bad that PG experimented with different kind of things but Q&A was a failure. Take Skill Point system for example. I really like the idea, but they overdid it. Frankly if they were halved the perk tree costs it would work. Now it's novelty that only leaded players to do lot of repetitive tasks which wasn't fun over time and so, players perhaps also became less interested to try different cars because they kept using ones with full Skilltree to max influence and didn't wanted to grind more skill points.

Garage full etc. Funny yeah.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

- don't you , don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you, don't you,

I think it's structurally interesting but too much is too much. In totally unrelated note, I have been thinking about practical joke overseas. Needs some really loud audio equipment, few piledrivers and karaoke setup, or maybe a choir? Know anyone with enough money to get this sort of thing done?

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

Anyway game is now far too old to expect any improvement. People complain about normal wheel spin feeling their garage with duplicates, people complain about waiting time between online championships and still, 10 months after game release ,team looks stuck on the way to improve the situation.

Single player aspect isn't that bad at all for player like me. That said, game fails to sell it's goods which may very well reflect to number of players starting to explore multiplayer aspect, which then has it's own issues. There's been big change as PG is now MS subsidiary. GaaS thing, that may have left the balloon, Everything's Awesome and all that.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

Overall, game disregards player's profile which, at the time of google, Facebook and so on, looks like 30 years late on customizing user experience based on user activity.

Can you elaborate?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#22 Posted : Saturday, August 17, 2019 10:36:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
...Overall, game disregards player's profile which, at the time of google, Facebook and so on, looks like 30 years late on customizing user experience based on user activity.

Can you elaborate?


Basically, you start the game and the game is not taking into account your level, the races you taken vs the one you left, the tunes you like vs the others, the cars you usually use vs the others, the feature you often use vs the others ... Of course it is not an issue that is specific to FH4, but, it is kind of frustration that companies kind of steal your personal data to push you some adverts etc, while something as simple as a game menu is not taking into account your usage of it to propose you a customized/optimized experience. You have my profile, use it.

Concerning Core feature missing at game start, was the FFA, many left the game for good and did not join back because of being forced to play loosing race even getting first, ramming fest, ... just get a look at the 50 or 60 pages of frustration on this very subject. Rivals was also missing and this feature tends to keep people longer on the game if it is available from the start ( the so called rivals that was available at the start was just a big misunderstanding of the usage of it ), many hardcore/longtime players left or did not join because of that. Putting rivals back was a good move but too late and with track-tor, peel and BS, kind of dead born fix to the situation.

Ramming is the ultimate reason why we miss long time players today. 99% of my FH3 club mates left FH4, even having bought the ultimate version, because they do race clean and respectfully of other players ( if you are blocked behind a car, you stay there until you possibly find a door kind of) . FH4 online has been a ramming fest for months and Ranked, which many expected to be the place for good racers, proved to be the place for ramming expertise.
It truth that PG team tried to lower the issue but so late and still with no will to promote clean racing. even lately, the collision penalties where lowered because it was not "FUN" that someone not hitting at all is better than another one hitting walls and vehicles. don't get me wrong, I am not against hits in general, but the number of hits and the type of hits should have some consequences so that when you play clean, you are considered better. Could have been as simple as displaying the number of hits on the race board or having applauds screens for the one having done the most clean overtakes etc, anything that would promote clean racing.
In FH4, the only thing promoting clean racing is the monthly rivals race. When clean racing is not promoted, it is promoting ramming, period.

Concerning the mix of players level, did a unranked team cs last week with some mates, 6 veterans, level 4 at the minimum, against 6 level 1 max. Saturday evening on Forza and only 6 veterans playing team racing over the planet, and all being of my club .... I believe the game is searching for players for a championship you want to play only on the very same server you are connected which, of course, leads to such results. I agree it can have to interest to see better racers but you don't learn much to see some veteran kicking you by one lap at the end of the race. Same as difficulty level, you pick one, possibly come to play with people of the difficulty level just below or up, that would be enough to maintain challenge and avoid frustration.

All that to say that PG pushed out their intensive players out of the game which partly explain why it can feel like the online is empty sometimes.

Like usually, any haters reading me, if you think motosport for me, I think mariokart for you ...

Edited by user Saturday, August 17, 2019 10:40:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Neo open your mind, you are just a drivatar
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#23 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 8:58:05 AM(UTC)
and I forgot the exceptional free roam races in road championships. This non sense also did pushed out so many good players.
Neo open your mind, you are just a drivatar
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 10:38:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post


Concerning Core feature missing at game start, was the FFA, many left the game for good and did not join back because of being forced to play loosing race even getting first, ramming fest, ... just get a look at the 50 or 60 pages of frustration on this very subject. Rivals was also missing and this feature tends to keep people longer on the game if it is available from the start ( the so called rivals that was available at the start was just a big misunderstanding of the usage of it ), many hardcore/longtime players left or did not join because of that. Putting rivals back was a good move but too late and with track-tor, peel and BS, kind of dead born fix to the situation.

Ramming is the ultimate reason why we miss long time players today. 99% of my FH3 club mates left FH4, even having bought the ultimate version, because they do race clean and respectfully of other players ( if you are blocked behind a car, you stay there until you possibly find a door kind of) . FH4 online has been a ramming fest for months and Ranked, which many expected to be the place for good racers, proved to be the place for expertise.


Spot on. No FFA was a big disappointment as my friends and I didn't even like team races in previous titles since they didn't show lap times.

The win by all means necessary, ramming, corner bombing fest with no skill points in online adventure is what ruined the game for me. I refuse to play demolition derby online in a racing franchise that I never played that way. I'm not going to "adapt" and become a toxic moron. So the game is dead to me. I did some rivals for maybe a week and now I'm back to not playing it again. Everything about the way I played H2 and H3 is gone or changed.

In H2 and H3

Build random car in garage or new car from auto show

Tune car

Race a rival track in car

If car is competitive I would try it in online adventure.

It took like 9 months for this to be setup in H4 but with the multiplayer being such trash it doesn't matter now. The damage has been done and I'm not playing demolition derby online.
If you could go ahead and take out all the things I loved about Horizon, that would be great.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#25 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 1:32:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
...Overall, game disregards player's profile which, at the time of google, Facebook and so on, looks like 30 years late on customizing user experience based on user activity.

Can you elaborate?


Basically, you start the game and the game is not taking into account your level, the races you taken vs the one you left, the tunes you like vs the others, the cars you usually use vs the others, the feature you often use vs the others ... Of course it is not an issue that is specific to FH4, but, it is kind of frustration that companies kind of steal your personal data to push you some adverts etc, while something as simple as a game menu is not taking into account your usage of it to propose you a customized/optimized experience. You have my profile, use it.

Interesting idea. I think it could work if it were optional. Some of us like exploring things ourselves but some sort of "hint" feature where player could ask suggestions based from data and filter them based on some additional questions like Drifting, Dirt Races, Road Races, etc.

I think lot's of this data gathering isn't worth anything though. For example remember when bugged update wiped Perks from player cars? Suddenly there were lot of players drifting and doing all sort of stunts on Airstrip as many were grinding their Skill Points back because there wasn't any information yet if we would get them refunded. What player data looks like after something like that? Player prefers doing Skills related tasks, while in reality many of us felt there's bit too much of it already and doing more of the same wasn't what we enjoyed, yet according to data it looks like we do.

I'm saying that to make what you suggest to work, it would depend more of less that mishaps like what happened wouldn't happen to begin with.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

Concerning Core feature missing at game start, was the FFA, many left the game for good and did not join back because of being forced to play loosing race even getting first, ramming fest, ... just get a look at the 50 or 60 pages of frustration on this very subject. Rivals was also missing and this feature tends to keep people longer on the game if it is available from the start ( the so called rivals that was available at the start was just a big misunderstanding of the usage of it ), many hardcore/longtime players left or did not join because of that. Putting rivals back was a good move but too late and with track-tor, peel and BS, kind of dead born fix to the situation.

Can't comment FFA but that FH4 didn't ship with full Rivals was quite unfortunate. I missed something to connect different features and build player experience towards something, ultimately becoming a better player, since there wasn't Rivals. I get there but I think lot of players felt FH4 is after all quite empty sandbox. It's not but some sort of championship mode where Drivatar difficulty goes up progressively and player could retry, choose to stay on lower difficulty but that would be like 3 stars out from 3 in the end of championship, but Bronze, Silver and Gold depending if player managed to beat not only the championship but also the difficulty progression.

Once this progression would be in place there were different selection of routes, building incentive to tuning. Voice cast in FH4 is stellar and could have been used to tell player that in next race of the championship there would be experienced drivers, using tuned cars on technical track.

I think if there were been one championship like that for every race type and completing them all would unlock possibility to do them vs. Unbeatable, maybe there were been much more opportunities for players to build their skills towards MP features, more players, etc.

But that's not the game we got. I hope they add feature to Route Creator for custom championships, but I believe it when I see it. And yeah, a bit late.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

Ramming is the ultimate reason why we miss long time players today. 99% of my FH3 club mates left FH4, even having bought the ultimate version, because they do race clean and respectfully of other players ( if you are blocked behind a car, you stay there until you possibly find a door kind of) . FH4 online has been a ramming fest for months and Ranked, which many expected to be the place for good racers, proved to be the place for ramming expertise.
It truth that PG team tried to lower the issue but so late and still with no will to promote clean racing. even lately, the collision penalties where lowered because it was not "FUN" that someone not hitting at all is better than another one hitting walls and vehicles. don't get me wrong, I am not against hits in general, but the number of hits and the type of hits should have some consequences so that when you play clean, you are considered better. Could have been as simple as displaying the number of hits on the race board or having applauds screens for the one having done the most clean overtakes etc, anything that would promote clean racing.
In FH4, the only thing promoting clean racing is the monthly rivals race. When clean racing is not promoted, it is promoting ramming, period.

A lot more could had been done with Trial concept, but not the game we got.

I didn't play much MP in FH3 and just few matches in FH2 but it's funny how different MP is in FH4. I mean what exactly kept players from ramming in previous titles? Yet I saw very little of it. Last MP matches in FH2 were pretty great even we were just five players or so. Compared to FM7 where ramming was plague that ate it to the point that it never become the phenomen it was perhaps supposed to come. (Not that ramming was the only issue of FM7).

I don't know but perhaps single player championship feature might have something to do with it. There was more incentive for players to race even on tracks they didn't like and then they weren't that unfamiliar in MP either.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

Concerning the mix of players level, did a unranked team cs last week with some mates, 6 veterans, level 4 at the minimum, against 6 level 1 max. Saturday evening on Forza and only 6 veterans playing team racing over the planet, and all being of my club .... I believe the game is searching for players for a championship you want to play only on the very same server you are connected which, of course, leads to such results. I agree it can have to interest to see better racers but you don't learn much to see some veteran kicking you by one lap at the end of the race. Same as difficulty level, you pick one, possibly come to play with people of the difficulty level just below or up, that would be enough to maintain challenge and avoid frustration.

All that to say that PG pushed out their intensive players out of the game which partly explain why it can feel like the online is empty sometimes.

Yeah, when event is totally unbalanced it's just becomes survival. It's not fun and it doesn't support learning about anything else that some players are really fast. Doesn't tell how, why.

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post

Like usually, any haters reading me, if you think motosport for me, I think mariokart for you ...

Lots of players on this planet who may think that Mario Kart is better game than FM7...

Originally Posted by: Tilo38 Go to Quoted Post
and I forgot the exceptional free roam races in road championships. This non sense also did pushed out so many good players.

It should have been it's own category all together.

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