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Rank: R-Class Racing License
#1726 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2020 4:45:44 AM(UTC)
I found another tenth in the Mini. I tried the Opel Kadett but can't come close to even keeping up with my Mini ghost using that.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1727 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2020 5:55:20 AM(UTC)
Assuming Bree and I are still having the fastest Kadett times our approach is very different. He is using AWD Offroad tires while I'm using RWD Race tires. Needless to say I'm losing a lot of time out of both hairpins because the acceleration is awful.
Also, the lack of low speed traction of RWD out of corners really shows again. The bicycle tires don't help either :D

So far the track seems to favor speed-carry through the turns more than acceleration though. The Kadett being the best RWD car by far of those I tested.
Low weight, good engine, high grip seems to be king here. Thus, from your list RB033, I see the most potential in the Clio Williams, Delta & 205 Rallye.
The others have too much power & weight to be build as grip machines at B700.
So, either FWD which makes use of its PI advantage, a stock AWD car that gains a lot of PI through its garbage gearbox or a RWD car that gains much PI from AWD-swapping like the allmighty Ford Roadster.
Preferably combined with a strong engine like the '97 Civic V-TEC which is one of the best in the entire game. The Kadett uses it too.

@Bree: I'm getting myself a Discord account for further pm's. If I want to reply to you on here it'll always use myself as adress - sending it back to my inbox.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 24, 2020 5:56:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#1728 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2020 6:59:44 AM(UTC)
Ironically, those are the only 3 yet to try!

https://forza.fandom.com/wiki/1.6L_I4_-_VVT
Not many options for '97 Civic engine, but the Talbot is on my long list, so I will try it in there.

BRZ stood up to its vision as a 'driving car', very nice to drive for a little bit heavier car. I managed the time with a tune that can still go 270 km/h, but didn't really gain time shortening the gears. Stock suspension seems above average, I still want to experiment some more there. I did try RWD on it, I can't drive RWD... used to do that in GT5, and of course do still play F1 games (ABS only) with a controller. The cars aren't the quality of F1 cars obviously. Any tips for FH4? Same reason I use ABS, managing the triggers is literally pain inducing. But Zip uses a keyboard without assists I think I saw?

I'd be curious to see how the better drivers here find the BRZ - the tune is shared. I've been 2+ seconds behind on these 2 challenges I've joined in, will the same apply with this car (i.e. you could go 1.30 in it maybe)? I'm going to also setup the GT86, assuming it is the same.

Volvo was handling much better than expected (stock engine - is turbo), it warrants proper dirt testing on faster tracks. I really really hope to use a family wagon for legitimate online... we'll see... I don't think it will have the top end for it. Maybe it can be unranked team adventure troll car.

1971 Lotus Elan 1.34.084
2013 Subaru BRZ 1.32.493 (B-Dirt candidate)
2003 Renault Sport Clio V6 1.34.695 (good handling, underpowered with 2 different engines, similar feel to Renault 5 but not as good)
2003 Ford Focus RS 1.37.631 (good handling, very underpowered)
1997 Volvo 850R 1.34.261 (B-Dirt candidate, family wagon rips!)
1997 BMW M3 N/A (>700, also heavy for weak kW numbers)
1995 Toyota MR2 GT 1.35.950 (can't stand how it drives)
1993 Renault Clio Williams
1992 Lancia Delta HF Integrale Evo
1991 Peugeot 205 Rallye
1991 BMW M3 1.34.194 (could use more experimenting)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1729 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2020 12:57:54 PM(UTC)
Did few laps. Integra was fun to drive, but no good time. Tried few different cars to finally end up in Mini.
Changed tune to vintage tires + front aero + turbo. Tune shared. Did few dirty runs good enough for 2nd. To catch 1st I think I will need to do run up from grass. Tune is shared.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1730 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2020 1:07:34 PM(UTC)
Did a few tests with the cars from RB033's list and only the Clio Williams and the 205 R set competitive times.
Williams mid 31s, 205 R a 30.889.
Then 30.931 with the 695 Abarth. So there is quite a bunch of cars capable of sub 31s.
In the end I wanted to check the '97 Civic's performance to see what those times are worth. Good thing we banned it.

Edited by user Tuesday, November 24, 2020 1:11:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1731 Posted : Tuesday, November 24, 2020 11:44:14 PM(UTC)
And what is your recipe for 97 Civic?

Also I tried Pulsar (with dirt tune) and it wasn't good. It didn't even look promising. Jezza why you banned Pulsar?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1732 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:57:49 AM(UTC)
Pulsar is generally overpowered at B and there is one high up the leaderboard. I didn’t play test it 😅.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1733 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 1:08:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
And what is your recipe for 97 Civic?

Also I tried Pulsar (with dirt tune) and it wasn't good. It didn't even look promising. Jezza why you banned Pulsar?


Would you be fine with me sharing it towards the end of the challenge?
Because (maybe aside from the Mini) I don't see competition for it. It would turn the event into a Civic-battle.
I mean it killed the WR on lap 3 without artificial boosts like a run-up.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1734 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 1:35:29 AM(UTC)
Sure. Civic is banned anyway, just wanted to try it - with your tune or build my own.

PS. As for my shared tune for Mini - shift where redline starts (6krpm). Forgot to mention this.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#1735 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 3:45:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ziperrPL Go to Quoted Post
Sure. Civic is banned anyway, just wanted to try it - with your tune or build my own.

PS. As for my shared tune for Mini - shift where redline starts (6krpm). Forgot to mention this.


I can't beat my time with your new tune, I was using your old tune with less power before. I tried your old tune again and went a couple of tenths quicker though.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1736 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 7:28:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Did a few tests with the cars from RB033's list and only the Clio Williams and the 205 R set competitive times.
Williams mid 31s, 205 R a 30.889.


I couldn't break 1.34 with the Williams, how did you set it up? I tried AWD sport tire, FWD offroad, both similar times. Do I need to go to race tire, less tire? Maybe stock engine is the problem? Haven't tried the 205 R yet.

Ran a 1.33 flat in the Talbot with VTEC engine, AWD sport tires. Very bad stock suspension, so I had to use up PI on race suspension and also sport brakes. It is a RWD car by default if anyone is curious about that.

A couple quick n dirty tests with Mini (zip new tune) and also Kadett (bree dirt tune), both put me under 1.32, need to put more time in there when I'm ready to bail on my BRZ ghost :D:D:D. Speaking of that - managed to squeeze in race suspension without losing kW or gaining kg, it gives hope for maybe a couple tenths, and also future dirt tests knowing I can run rally suspension in it now.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1737 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 11:34:37 AM(UTC)
Ok, times so far. Rayne with another record to add to the list unless someone can topple him:

Rayne (Mini) - 1.30.390
Ziperr (Mini) - 1.30.867
Bree (Kadett) - 1.31.322
FullNietzsche (Mini) - 1.31.382
Rex (Mini) - 1.31.825
RB (BRZ) - 1.32.493
Matteo (Kadett) - 1.33.924
Jezza (GT86) - 1.33.927
Squryl (Abarth 595) - 1.36.513

Can anything challenge the mighty Mini?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1738 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 12:43:28 PM(UTC)
I ran 1.32.1 in RB’s BRZ. Don’t think I could go much quicker. Switched to the Mayers Manx and ran 1.31.1.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#1739 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 3:05:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Ok, times so far. Rayne with another record to add to the list unless someone can topple him:

Rayne (Mini) - 1.30.390
Ziperr (Mini) - 1.30.867
Bree (Kadett) - 1.31.322
FullNietzsche (Mini) - 1.31.382
Rex (Mini) - 1.31.825
RB (BRZ) - 1.32.493
Matteo (Kadett) - 1.33.924
Jezza (GT86) - 1.33.927
Squryl (Abarth 595) - 1.36.513

Can anything challenge the mighty Mini?


My time isn't quite that good, sadly! But I have just gone fractionally quicker with Rayne's Mini tune to 1:31.432 now. (was .482)

Took me 9 laps to shave that 0.05s off. I had one lap where I was a few tenths ahead of my ghost but messed up later on.

edit - two more laps, this time following Rayne's ghost and done 1:30.931.

Edited by user Wednesday, November 25, 2020 3:12:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#1740 Posted : Wednesday, November 25, 2020 10:35:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Did a few tests with the cars from RB033's list and only the Clio Williams and the 205 R set competitive times.
Williams mid 31s, 205 R a 30.889.
Then 30.931 with the 695 Abarth. So there is quite a bunch of cars capable of sub 31s.
In the end I wanted to check the '97 Civic's performance to see what those times are worth. Good thing we banned it.


I tried the 695 Abarth and I could feel that it was fast but I was not able to match my mini and kadett times. How did you build that? Mine is AWD sport tyres rear aero.
Currently my best contender to the top two cars is the Austin sprite mk I. Maybe a better driver can challenge the leaderboard with it.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1741 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 4:27:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MatteoSmot Go to Quoted Post


I tried the 695 Abarth and I could feel that it was fast but I was not able to match my mini and kadett times. How did you build that? Mine is AWD sport tyres rear aero.
Currently my best contender to the top two cars is the Austin sprite mk I. Maybe a better driver can challenge the leaderboard with it.


My fastest time was done with a FWD Race tires build. As much weight reduction as possible, rear-aero to drop PI and making use of the FWD PI advantage. Has the best handling of all cars I have tested on this track yet. Just lacks high-speed acceleration because it has too much drag.

Hadn't had the Sprite on my mind. Good idea, going to see what I can do with it.

Edited by user Thursday, November 26, 2020 5:30:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#1742 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 6:05:33 AM(UTC)
It is officially the tiny old car challenge!
Rank: Racing Permit
#1743 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 9:31:11 AM(UTC)
Looks like the B700 Abarth 695 has extra use this week for the "Concrete Jungle" championship:
https://forums.forzamoto...-through-December-3.aspx
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1744 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:07:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RB033 Go to Quoted Post
It is officially the tiny old car challenge!

I tried the new 850 CSi to see what a more recent big heavy barge can do. Managed 1:34.1, so it wasn't terrible. After that, I gave it a try for Horizon Festival Sprint, which looked like it would suit it better, and got 21st out of 6.6k on the leaderboard for that. Tune is shared, but overall it can't match the handling cars for handling, and will never match the broken RWD cars for speed, so I'm not sure there are any tracks in the game where it will be all that close to the meta.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1745 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:25:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RB033 Go to Quoted Post
It is officially the tiny old car challenge!

I tried the new 850 CSi to see what a more recent big heavy barge can do. Managed 1:34.1, so it wasn't terrible. After that, I gave it a try for Horizon Festival Sprint, which looked like it would suit it better, and got 21st out of 6.6k on the leaderboard for that. Tune is shared, but overall it can't match the handling cars for handling, and will never match the broken RWD cars for speed, so I'm not sure there are any tracks in the game where it will be all that close to the meta.


I have been getting through my long list and there are quite a few heavier (1100-1400 kg) cars that have been posting low 1.34 as well. All of them sadly will now take much more of my time on other tracks because I need to know! Will they compete?? It is both awesome and draining that there are so many configurations to try.

@Jezza - maybe our next challenge can tip the scale towards the heavies?

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#1746 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:43:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RB033 Go to Quoted Post
It is officially the tiny old car challenge!

I tried the new 850 CSi to see what a more recent big heavy barge can do. Managed 1:34.1, so it wasn't terrible. After that, I gave it a try for Horizon Festival Sprint, which looked like it would suit it better, and got 21st out of 6.6k on the leaderboard for that. Tune is shared, but overall it can't match the handling cars for handling, and will never match the broken RWD cars for speed, so I'm not sure there are any tracks in the game where it will be all that close to the meta.


I just tried it on the Horizon sprint, couldn't make it work for me unfortunately! Your ghost disappears into the sunset while I'm struggling to make it go round corners. (Then again I have been playing Ridge Racer recently so I might need to re-acclimatise to the cars in Forza.)

Edited by user Thursday, November 26, 2020 1:44:36 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1747 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 2:04:17 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
I just tried it on the Horizon sprint, couldn't make it work for me unfortunately! Your ghost disappears into the sunset while I'm struggling to make it go round corners. (Then again I have been playing Ridge Racer recently so I might need to re-acclimatise to the cars in Forza.)

It took me quite a few runs to make it work. I was driving against Abell's M-B 190 ghost, and at first I thought I had absolutely no chance, but then I managed to bring it home about 1.5 secs after his ghost, then 0.5 secs, and eventually I beat him. The early part in particular is hard to work out the right line through and when exactly to brake and how much.

Rather than playing Ridge Racer, get yourself a copy of ACC for £14 in the Steam Black Friday sale. I've been playing it with a controller and it's hard to do competitive times, but it can be enjoyed with a controller absolutely fine so long as you don't try to compare your times to other people. I can beat the AI on the default 90% setting with the controller, and the AI is fantastic, it's like driving against aggressive yet ultimately courteous humans, e.g. you can go side by side through a chicane like you would with a competent human. And the physics really encourages a more analogue approach to the inputs vs FH4, I find it really causes me to use partial stick movements and trigger movements, and I think it will make anyone a better driver.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1748 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 2:10:01 PM(UTC)
Very close to breaking 1.31 with Kadett, anybody want to try the tune? "Dangles Eh"

Based on bree's, exchange rally for race suspension, back to stock transmission to drop the bumpers off and lighter clutch, then use stock brakes in exchange for a couple kW I think it was valves and also upgrades to clutch and driveshaft to get the weight savings back. I've been finding it helps to pump the brakes even though I use ABS.

Edit - managed 1.30.958, 1.30.7 dirty, I can be two car lengths ahead of myself after the first hairpin, but then botch the next... or vice versa I'll catchup at the second hairpin and end sprint just shy of the time. I can't see myself beating this after so many tries. My best Mini time is 1.31.081, so I'm done unless some of these other tiny old cars turn out to be good!

Edited by user Thursday, November 26, 2020 11:42:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#1749 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 2:15:53 PM(UTC)
Just went four tenths faster in a Nissan Pulsar than my existing time, for 30th. I expect that car can go faster than the BMW as my run was far from optimal. It is the fastest Pulsar time though, which is quite surprising.
Rank: Driver's License
#1750 Posted : Thursday, November 26, 2020 10:30:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RB033 Go to Quoted Post
Looks like the B700 Abarth 695 has extra use this week for the "Concrete Jungle" championship:
https://forums.forzamoto...-through-December-3.aspx


Yeah I thought the same and it smashed the AI by miles except for the Third CC track where it struggles a bit because of the rigid tarmac focus build that I come up with Rayne direction. Btw I really appreciated that addiction to the championship it was the first time that I saw mixed race in a championship and I think that playgroundish track complement hot hatches very well
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