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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#526 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 11:02:17 AM(UTC)
I've tried a few more times, I can't improve on my own already not terribly competitive time. You have to be so precise with the corners or you can forget it, so it's a bit frustrating. Added to the off-road section where a little bump can upset your run. I can get a couple of car lengths ahead of my ghost after the first corner, but after that I can't keep up. I must have done everything more or less perfectly (for me) after that.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#527 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:14:42 PM(UTC)
My sub 2005 takes 1.12.990 on this track on rivals
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#528 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 1:19:45 PM(UTC)
Nice time Tilo 👍. Puts you in 7th at the moment, with Rex your next target on 1.12.973.

Ziperr has just blown everyone out of the water though with a 1.11.520, to open up a near second lead also in the 05 Subaru. Fancy sharing that tune 😉??
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#529 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 5:32:07 PM(UTC)
There seem to be a lot of new quick times being set on this course - mainly by people driving OP Atomic Punks! Anyway, using our slightly slower Modern Rally cars we are still making a good impression on the leaderboard and a lot of entrants;

Ziperr (05 WRX) - 1.11.520 (6th overall)
Jezza (15 WRX) - 1.12.272 (13th)
Rayne (08 WRX) - 1.12.406 (17th)
Ang3l (15 WRX) - 1.12.639 (20th)
Rat Catcha (04 Lancer) - 1.12.806 (23rd)
Rex (15 WRX) - 1.12.973 (31st)
Tilo (05 WRX) - 1.12.990 (32nd)
FN (15 WRX) - 1.13.267 (38th)
Bree (08 WRX) - 1.14.283 (~55th)
Wan Ge (03 Focus) - 1.14.741 (64th)
Leetorts (06 Lancer) - 1.14.842 (70th)
Spiko (08 WRX) - 1.14.908 (74th)
Squryl (05 WRX) - 1.16.376 (160th)
Hanson (15 WRX) - 1.16.743 (171st)
Dead Zep (15 WRX) - 1.17.144 (196th)
Thumby (08 WRX) - 1.19.613 (319th)
Blevin (05 WRX) - 1.24.484 (695th)

Edited by user Tuesday, January 21, 2020 5:34:38 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#530 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 5:54:05 PM(UTC)
My quickest time is using Ang3l’s 15 WRX tune by the way. He’s also shared an 05 WRX one which also seems quick if anyone wants to try that.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#531 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 6:10:47 PM(UTC)
Just done 1:12.169, Jezza are you able to see the screenshot on my Xbox activity feed?

I cloned GreetedDust8's '15 WRX build, and tuned it myself, so that it would turn! I varied the build a teeny bit as well, adding the Forza rear wing and spending that 1 PI on a wider front tyre, again in an effort to make the car turn better.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#532 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 7:46:30 PM(UTC)
1:11.739 with my same tune of the '15 WRX. Raced against ziperr's ghost, it seems potentially beatable, but I'm not sure I'm up for how long I'd have to spend to get that perfect lap where I just miss all the barriers. If anyone wants to try my tune, I'm happy to share it.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#533 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:22:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
1:11.739 with my same tune of the '15 WRX. Raced against ziperr's ghost, it seems potentially beatable, but I'm not sure I'm up for how long I'd have to spend to get that perfect lap where I just miss all the barriers. If anyone wants to try my tune, I'm happy to share it.


Yes please...
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#534 Posted : Tuesday, January 21, 2020 10:40:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
1:11.739 with my same tune of the '15 WRX. Raced against ziperr's ghost, it seems potentially beatable, but I'm not sure I'm up for how long I'd have to spend to get that perfect lap where I just miss all the barriers. If anyone wants to try my tune, I'm happy to share it.


Yes please...

Okay, shared it as LHWS Rivals v1. I left it in 4th gear for the entire lap. There's a couple of places where it might seem to lack power in 4th, but once you get used to it, you can just get on the throttle earlier to compensate.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#535 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 12:43:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
1:11.739 with my same tune of the '15 WRX. Raced against ziperr's ghost, it seems potentially beatable, but I'm not sure I'm up for how long I'd have to spend to get that perfect lap where I just miss all the barriers. If anyone wants to try my tune, I'm happy to share it.


Yes please...

Okay, shared it as LHWS Rivals v1. I left it in 4th gear for the entire lap. There's a couple of places where it might seem to lack power in 4th, but once you get used to it, you can just get on the throttle earlier to compensate.


Thanks, just tried it, it's very good, I haven't gone faster with it yet but this is the first tune I've tried where I actually feel confident I can improve. It pulls up the hill quicker than my ghost even leaving it in 4th like you said, and it turns better.

edit - I improved a couple of tenths. Might try again later.

And another tenth.

And squeezed past Tilo, just overtaking him in the last few seconds.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 22, 2020 3:36:39 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#536 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 6:10:49 AM(UTC)
I tried ziperr's tune but can't go as quick as with breem's. I noticed following some people's ghosts that they are driving through the fence on the left at the top of the hill, apparently without slowing down. Is this fence not there for some people? Is it perhaps not on the Xbox version but is on the PC version due to higher settings? I don't know if it gives any slight time advantage but if I try it I just slow down as you'd expect.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#537 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 6:20:27 AM(UTC)
The fence is there for everyone but I don’t think it regenerates - so if you knock it down on lap 1 it won’t be there on lap 2.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#538 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 6:30:22 AM(UTC)
Ah that never occurred to me, I've got used to the game regenerating stuff each lap during races (which I always thought was a bit strange anyway).

I just tried it and you're right. Shame that trick doesn't work for the fence on the last corner, or the stone wall on the second last.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#539 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 7:01:25 AM(UTC)
Just out of curiosity, and a desire to improve at build/tuning, what are my cars lacking? I don't use a wheel or play on PC. Is that all THAT big of a deal tuning wise? If so, is the first Forza where that was a problem?

Like I said before, MY times do not reflect the potential of my tunes, so you can't look at this week for example, see I'm 7 seconds back, which was posted the first day, and really only day I've messed with this, and think it won't hang. My "test driver" xDeaDxCriMinaLx hasn't been on that much lately since Modern Warfare came out so I'm out a driver.

Again, I'm not looking for anything but some feedback so I can improve, NOT trying to insist and I definitely dont EXPECT mine to be the best. I'm just seeing tunes used by folks that aren't even in these challenges. If mine are bad, I can deal with that, but if it's something simple, i can fix it. Either way, I'm still gonna be building, tuning and painting. Whether they're popular or not.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 22, 2020 7:02:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Maxwell's Speed Shop
xDeaDxZeppLiNx
mechanic, paint
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#540 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 7:14:23 AM(UTC)
Your tunes are fine but these events sometimes benefit from a very specific dedicated tune which is optimised to eek out every last sinew of performance from the car on this track alone. It's a rare talent who can do that. I certainly can't do it, I tried a few for this event and fell well short.

After a lot more laps I somehow managed to squeeze past Rat Catcha with Breem's tune.

edit - Zepp I just tried your two tunes for the Subaru '15 as you said some feedback might be useful.

I did a few laps in each, the v1 I was doing around 1:16.6 which is a full ~4 seconds slower than my personal best. It doesn't have the acceleration to be competitive unfortunately. This track is a trade-off between sacrificing as much handling as possible in exchange for the speed you need, while still being just able to go round corners adequately. The v2 I did a 1:15.5. Neither tune has aero (rear spoiler) which would help these big heavy cars in the corners which on this track is a worthwhile trade-off for a bit of loss of straight line speed because they really don't like turning.

It's a fine art getting these track-specific tunes just right, no doubt about it.

Another thing perhaps which might help, and which I always try first is to try other people's tunes yourself. It doesn't matter if you aren't the fastest because the point is you will be trying other tunes with your own driving, so you are comparing like with like. If you are quicker with someone else's tune than with your own, then you can see where the improvements, if any, can be made. For example if you try a tune which goes round corners great but is too slow on straights, and you can't find another faster tune, you could try adding power / adjusting gearing etc. And vice versa.

The top tuners are magicians and sometimes even a tiny change can make all the difference in these ultra competitive rivals events.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 22, 2020 8:10:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#541 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:01:43 AM(UTC)
Thabks for the feedback. For the first couple that I shared, I kept the stock engine and transmission, which I wasn't too happy with the gearing myself. 370 plus HP seems like a good amount, but didn't feel fast. I thought I had put aero on at least one of the LS swapped tunes. Pretty sure those ended up in the 460-470HP range. Theres the '05 WRX and i wanna say one of the '15s had a swap, I'll have to check which has what. I didn't do any transmission changes on some, with PI being limited. I'll have to put some aero on a couple of these and try them out.

And yeah, I do download many tunes to see what's different. Sometimes its easier.to tell what's changed than other times. Like I said, I'm cool.with whatever. I dont expect to be the go to tuner. I was more or less curious about the difference in PC to console, as a while ago it was mentioned that if it's not tuned or used on a PC or a wheel user, it's not gonna get used or tried because of the difference between the 2, I dont have a wheel or play on PC, so I suppose it is what it is.
Maxwell's Speed Shop
xDeaDxZeppLiNx
mechanic, paint
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#542 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:04:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xDeaDxZeppLiNx Go to Quoted Post
Just out of curiosity, and a desire to improve at build/tuning, what are my cars lacking?

Johnson's guide to building and tuning is very very good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4s1VP1nUoM

It's a bit tragic that he gave out so much useful information and only has 60k views for that video. He seems to have given up YouTubing now.

One thing I don't agree with is setting a higher brake pressure. With an elite controller, it always seemed fine, but with a wheel+pedals I prefer it left at 100.

Re PC advantage, I'd say a PC build can definitely be superior to Xbox. Playing at higher frame rate is never going to be worse, and if someone had, say, a 32:9 screen running at 1440p 120fps, it's going to give a quality of view that the Xbox can't match. I'm using 16:9 1080p, so the only advantage I have is a higher frame rate, plus I think I'm running higher quality settings than the Xbox One X provides in its 1080p 60fps mode.

Re wheel advantage, I do feel I'm faster now than I was with a controller, but there is some personal preference involved. GT Sport is fairly widely regarded as favouring the wheel over controller, but there are still significant numbers of people who buy a wheel thinking it's going to make them much faster, and after a while they give up and go back to the controller because they're slower with the wheel. When I first tried a wheel with FH4 I literally couldn't keep the car on the road.

It would be incredibly time consuming to try to build and tune the best car for this rivals all by yourself. I was able to take GreetedDust8's build and tweak it, but it would have taken me tens of hours, at least, to try all the cars and come up with that build of that car as being the way to go. He sacrificed everything to get the 2nd turbo upgrade to the rally engine. No brake upgrade, no clutch upgrade, just the sport gearbox. I don't know how long it would have taken me to come up with the same build, it's possible I'd never have come up with it. So in this case, my tune only came about because of the work he did first, then the work Jezza did to try out tunes and find his tune to be good, which caused me to try it out.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#543 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:25:19 AM(UTC)
Yep lots of hard work, trial and error, it's a puzzle and it's always better to use someone else's work, either entirely or as a base, rather than seek to reinvent the wheel from scratch when someone has made a perfectly good wheel already.

I've done my best on this event now, I can improve no more, if anyone else beats me then good luck to you and well done :p Cos it is not easy putting fast laps in on this track with these cars.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 22, 2020 9:27:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#544 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 10:12:01 AM(UTC)
Well, I do appreciate all the tips. For what it's worth, I've been around since FM2, doing the same things I'm doing now. I've read tuning guides on the forums, I've even written a few on drag tuning, all the way back to Bigworm80, fifty inch, gtFOOT, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch, sorry. I've learned tons from HLR Moss and HLR Kid. A bunch more folks I've known over the years. I've downloaded, more to give a salute to the guys that took the time to make them, the tuning apps for some of the games. I haven't used any in a while.

I had a pretty good system for a good amount of time, then I got really bored. Spent a very long time messing with drag tunes and gear ratios. Like most of FM6 into Horizon 3 then FM7. I think the messing around with that stuff and not so much the actual "race" tuning has certainly hurt my overall tuning. I've been trying to get back to that for a long time.

I do get using other's tunes as a "base", but you've still got to tune it. And I usually try many, many different builds, with aero, without, AWD, RWD, engine and trans swaps. I personally do not like to dissect other folks builds. Just a preference, but I usually get to the same build at some point. And again, it's still gotta be tuned.

I tried your tune Breem, I ended up a little slower, I'm sure mostly because of my line. I found that I couldn't slow down the way I wanted for the sharper turns. I kept understeering into the concrete barriers at the top of the hill and the bottom. I use alot of decel, well not alot, but some to help with off throttle braking on some of the corners, trying not to stop momentum by over braking. Again, I've got probably a messed up driving style.

I guess the point is, y'all keep doing what you're doing and I'll keep doing what I'm doing. Hopefully I'll get faster and better with tunes and you guys, I'm certain, will keep lighting up leaderboards.

*******

I just jumped on for a quick session, (another downfall of my forza playing, not taking enough time, lol) I rebuilt my '15 just to see what it would do, all stock except, 6.2 swap, differential, dirt tires, a touch wide stance, and a good chunk of horsepower. I got my best of 1:16.610. I'm NOT consistant on the turn at the top of the hill or setting up for the hairpin. I'm either too fast or slow down too much. Practice, practice practice! Its shared if anyone is curious.

Anyway, off to go do some actual work, hope to be back on later. And as a footnote, speaking of frame rates and whatnot, I'm on an original, ORIGINAL xbox, 2 year old controller that floats to the right and a 9 year old plasma that shows alot of purple on light screens. Not the most advantageous of setups, lol. It works for now though.

Edited by user Wednesday, January 22, 2020 11:35:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Maxwell's Speed Shop
xDeaDxZeppLiNx
mechanic, paint
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#545 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 1:10:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xDeaDxZeppLiNx Go to Quoted Post
Just out of curiosity, and a desire to improve at build/tuning, what are my cars lacking?

Johnson's guide to building and tuning is very very good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4s1VP1nUoM

It's a bit tragic that he gave out so much useful information and only has 60k views for that video. He seems to have given up YouTubing now.

One thing I don't agree with is setting a higher brake pressure. With an elite controller, it always seemed fine, but with a wheel+pedals I prefer it left at 100.

Re PC advantage, I'd say a PC build can definitely be superior to Xbox. Playing at higher frame rate is never going to be worse, and if someone had, say, a 32:9 screen running at 1440p 120fps, it's going to give a quality of view that the Xbox can't match. I'm using 16:9 1080p, so the only advantage I have is a higher frame rate, plus I think I'm running higher quality settings than the Xbox One X provides in its 1080p 60fps mode.

Re wheel advantage, I do feel I'm faster now than I was with a controller, but there is some personal preference involved. GT Sport is fairly widely regarded as favouring the wheel over controller, but there are still significant numbers of people who buy a wheel thinking it's going to make them much faster, and after a while they give up and go back to the controller because they're slower with the wheel. When I first tried a wheel with FH4 I literally couldn't keep the car on the road.

It would be incredibly time consuming to try to build and tune the best car for this rivals all by yourself. I was able to take GreetedDust8's build and tweak it, but it would have taken me tens of hours, at least, to try all the cars and come up with that build of that car as being the way to go. He sacrificed everything to get the 2nd turbo upgrade to the rally engine. No brake upgrade, no clutch upgrade, just the sport gearbox. I don't know how long it would have taken me to come up with the same build, it's possible I'd never have come up with it. So in this case, my tune only came about because of the work he did first, then the work Jezza did to try out tunes and find his tune to be good, which caused me to try it out.


Attax's youtube vid on gearing was extremely useful to me. So much so i did a Subaru tune for the 05 which was pulling constant 1:12's for me. Haven't shared it though as i keep messing around with the tune to see if i can eek that little bit more out of it. Tuned it with long gears which basically had me in second all the way. Tried tuning it to do it in 3rd all the way and messed it up so going to retune it again and then i'll share.

Your tune Bree is absolutely phenonemal, thanks for sharing.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#546 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 2:32:00 PM(UTC)
Blimey Rex. For someone supposedly too old to set quick times, that 1.11.8 was tough to get past. Took me a solid 30 laps - was driving me mad as you get the last two corners near perfect! Finally managed to get the hairpin and the last two corners somewhere near perfect myself and ran a 1.11.471. Five of us now into the 1.11s now.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#547 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 2:43:36 PM(UTC)
Great discussion above guys. Really informative. Zepp - I usually try your tunes if I remember. Will start posting times and feedback. On this one, I tried the 05 WRX tune over the weekend. It handles great and is really fun to drive but, as FN said above, it needs a bit more acceleration to be competitive with the top times on this one. I think I managed a 1.14 in it. Am also running your “Rivals” livery - nice touch including “Rivals Challenge” on the back!
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#548 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 2:52:51 PM(UTC)
Also, Ang3l has offered to host a demonstration of some tuning tips he uses - focus on one car and show a balanced, power and grip build if people would be interested? I can confirm he knows what he’s doing - definitely creates some highly competitive tunes.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#549 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 3:14:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Also, Ang3l has offered to host a demonstration of some tuning tips he uses - focus on one car and show a balanced, power and grip build if people would be interested? I can confirm he knows what he’s doing - definitely creates some highly competitive tunes.


Definately interested.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#550 Posted : Wednesday, January 22, 2020 3:15:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Blimey Rex. For someone supposedly too old to set quick times, that 1.11.8 was tough to get past. Took me a solid 30 laps - was driving me mad as you get the last two corners near perfect! Finally managed to get the hairpin and the last two corners somewhere near perfect myself and ran a 1.11.471. Five of us now into the 1.11s now.


lol!!!!! Was suprised myself at how well i did that run to get that time :)
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