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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#76 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 1:10:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
Doesn't do much good for the percentage of the population that haven't ranked. How large would you say that is, judging
from the achievement stats?


The achievements don't tell the whole story. There's only one for Team Adventure, not the other modes. So the story they tell is that 7% ever qualified for Team Adventure - the lowest for any Mainland achievements - and only 60% of the players ever made it to the Horizon Roster. Based on other achievements, the page wants me to believe there is a ~15% of "gamers who actually play the game." Is it half of these fearless systematic unlockers of achievements that got the one for Team Adventure?

Anyway, the percentage of the players who qualified for Free For All Adventure is the story I want to be told about, and then there's the problem of how well do 136,960 tracked gamers represent allegedly 10,000,000 players.


FFA was introduced late in the game's cycle. Chances are it's even less than Team Adventure.

The percentages aren't cumulative BTW, those 7% are out of 100% not the 60% who qualified for the Horizon Roster. Still, the simple fact only 60% made it past the tutorial tells me the game has lower retention than desirable since you don't get close to the full experience if you don't qualify.

Since FH4 doesn't have a clear ending, this achievement could be compared to the "Beat the game" achievements in story-driven games... If that percentage is low, the game wasn't successful in keeping audiences engaged until the end, even if it sold well.

Regarding other stats, the achievements for completion of racing disciplines as well as PR stunts clearly state that Road Racing remains a priority for Forza Horizon players, and that Drift is quite niche. The Drift percentage could be skewed because drifters usually keep to their favorite routes and don't bother with the dirt zones, but still, I see people saying they don't like drifting way too often for me to ignore that stat.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#77 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 1:33:48 AM(UTC)
I possess almost all exclusive cars except PO.
And I almost all the exclusive car locked challenges have been achieved.
Well, honestly speaking, only a handful challenge were fun, and the rest of the challenges are just boring and bothered. I couldn't love them and felt like forced labor.

As you can see from the above, I am negative about the current FH4 stance. I can say that I hate festival playlists.
So why do I play this game? It is because the car is being held hostage.
But many of my friends were not. They gave up on this game.
They were avid fans of the Forza franchise. They were playing FH3 until the day FH4 was released.
But they are no longer in the UK. They play FM7 or play other racing games like GT Sport and Dirt Rally 2.0.

They say: "I'm tired of releasing the lock on my car."
FH4 is currently forcing us to play regularly. Some would advocate, "It's not compulsory! And it will end in a few hours!" However, the only way to get a new car is those challenges at that time. When will it be available again? No one knows.
As a result, we are forced to play these challenges semi-forced.
And those challenges may be several hours, several tens of minutes for each challenge. But those challenges definitely steal time from us.
These times may have been the time we wanted to use for painting, setup cars, or taking photos in FH4, or it might have been for playing other games. We spend time every week on challenges we don't want to do.
If these things continue, it will be no surprise if some players are fed up with FH4.
Not everyone continues to have loyalty to T10/PG.

If MS and PG value "User engagement", aim for FH4 that players can love more.
There are no prisoners who love jail.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#78 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 1:49:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: JurunceNK Go to Quoted Post
I've pretty much given up on collecting cars at this point. The time needed to be put in (even if it's small), with however much effort is needed, became a grindfest.


That ☝️

It would be another thing if the challenges would stay active indefinitely, so one could choose to do them at a time fitting to themselves, but i don't like to be forced to do something, week after week, in a specific time frame. Way to turn fun into chores.



Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#79 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 4:01:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Scimmia22 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
You need to qualify for one of the Online Adventure modes only once. Once you do qualify and get ranked, from the next time onwards you'll have to do only one adventure in the entire month.

Doesn't do much good for the percentage of the population that haven't ranked. How large would you say that is, judging
from the achievement stats?


After 6 seasons of not qualifying? I don't think that percentage cares about completion.

Correct. That doesn't mean, however, that they've stopped playing, or that they wouldn't like to earn more cars doing challenges they enjoy.

Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 Go to Quoted Post
Doesn't do much good for the percentage of the population that haven't ranked. How large would you say that is, judging
from the achievement stats?


The achievements don't tell the whole story. There's only one for Team Adventure, not the other modes. So the story they tell is that 7% ever qualified for Team Adventure - the lowest for any Mainland achievements - and only 60% of the players ever made it to the Horizon Roster. Based on other achievements, the page wants me to believe there is a ~15% of "gamers who actually play the game." Is it half of these fearless systematic unlockers of achievements that got the one for Team Adventure?

Anyway, the percentage of the players who qualified for Free For All Adventure is the story I want to be told about, and then there's the problem of how well do 136,960 tracked gamers represent allegedly 10,000,000 players.


https://www.calculator.n...mp;x=61&y=22#findci

0.13% margin of error... doesn't seem so bad. Even going to the worst case (50%) only ups that to 0.26%.

Edited by user Monday, July 29, 2019 4:14:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Combined replies

Rank: Driver's License
 11 users liked this post.
#80 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 5:46:24 AM(UTC)
I said it before and I'll say it again...

It is hilarious that PG/T10 created a system that FORCES players to participate in game modes, rather than making those modes enjoyable enough that players WANT to participate.

The most fun I have with this game always comes after I finish the idiotic "Festival Chorelist" and get to pick whatever car I want, to use on whatever track I want, and RACE. Imagine that!
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#81 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 6:19:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NikoTheHammer Go to Quoted Post
I said it before and I'll say it again...

It is hilarious that PG/T10 created a system that FORCES players to participate in game modes, rather than making those modes enjoyable enough that players WANT to participate.

The most fun I have with this game always comes after I finish the idiotic "Festival Chorelist" and get to pick whatever car I want, to use on whatever track I want, and RACE. Imagine that!


The concept is known as "nudging":

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_theory

This is what happens when you decide to try to change your users' behavior, instead of adapting your requirements to it.
Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#82 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 7:28:18 AM(UTC)
You Have Nailed Their Coffin Good!

I couldn't add anything to your post, just that I have ran into the same frustrations and the Apollo car is one of those, I have tried nearly a hundred times to buyout the Apollo car in the auction house and it is obviously locked and only Elite Users (What I mean By Elite = Not Related To the Ranking Formula But Insiders or Clubs Who are Coddled By Auction House Moderators Mangers) are able to buyout (or teams of users working frantically on PCs searching 24x7 manually or with auction bot apps to snipe these cars before they barely enter the bid now buyout status) these cars.

I have tried to search-buyout just this car for an hour or two straight and have managed to click Buyout on maybe ten of those cars (most of which are listing at 575K!!!) and continue to get buyout failed. I knew these cars where being handed to elite users who then immediately list them for $20mil Bid-Buyout and then the car sells for $20mil to users mainly who have probably either worked hard to gain those credits and have to drop them on these cars (when elite users obtained them for $575) or they are bought by cheating users who have obtained those credits through by scamming the game somehow.

Anyway, I still play the game but it has left a bad taste in my mouth as far as if I am going to continue to invest my real money (not virtual) into more of these games.

-upcaman

Edited by user Monday, July 29, 2019 8:21:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 6 users liked this post.
#83 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 7:54:24 AM(UTC)
Why all the people who are for exclusive cars always come up with the same argument "lol just play the game stop being lazy"
I have all of the exclusives, some of them I got duplicates and even have my favorites in my alt account, yet I don't think this is good for the game in the long run because what happens when you just get into the game after it goes EOL? You realize that there is ~100 cars that you just can't get anymore, ever again, for no reason at all.
These days I wanted to revisit FH3 on a fresh account and is a bit annoying playing through knowing that some cars are just out of my reach, can't drive half the porsches, can't drive the sesto or the 599xx. Sure, there are other hundreds of cars to drive so it's not a deal breaker I can still enjoy the game but is an annoyance nonetheless, one that was purposely made by the devs. And that's on a game where there is only about 25 exclusive cars, FH4 has nearly 50 already (excluding wheelspin cars or cars locked to leveling) and the list keeps growing with every update, but I guess for you guys it won't matter since you'll just jump ship to whatever game is the current and not look back, right?
And that's only one of the issues, the other one is that the game became a huge chore, but other people already elaborate further on that one.
Rank: Driver's License
#84 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 8:34:38 AM(UTC)
Oh Yeah, users who operate with multiple accounts to either manipulate auction pricing forcing bidding on cars they are listing with one account up by bidding against others with their other accounts.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#85 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 9:49:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: upcaman Go to Quoted Post
You Have Nailed Their Coffin Good!

I couldn't add anything to your post, just that I have ran into the same frustrations and the Apollo car is one of those, I have tried nearly a hundred times to buyout the Apollo car in the auction house and it is obviously locked and only Elite Users (What I mean By Elite = Not Related To the Ranking Formula But Insiders or Clubs Who are Coddled By Auction House Moderators Mangers) are able to buyout (or teams of users working frantically on PCs searching 24x7 manually or with auction bot apps to snipe these cars before they barely enter the bid now buyout status) these cars.

I have tried to search-buyout just this car for an hour or two straight and have managed to click Buyout on maybe ten of those cars (most of which are listing at 575K!!!) and continue to get buyout failed. I knew these cars where being handed to elite users who then immediately list them for $20mil Bid-Buyout and then the car sells for $20mil to users mainly who have probably either worked hard to gain those credits and have to drop them on these cars (when elite users obtained them for $575) or they are bought by cheating users who have obtained those credits through by scamming the game somehow.

Anyway, I still play the game but it has left a bad taste in my mouth as far as if I am going to continue to invest my real money (not virtual) into more of these games.

-upcaman


So tell me, when you go outside and look up, do you see a bunch of black helicopters?
Rank: Driver's License
#86 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 10:05:01 AM(UTC)
Uhhhh .... Yeah ... Don't You!!????

-upcaman
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#87 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 2:45:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CRracer 912 Go to Quoted Post

If you would actually read this thread, you'd notice the 3rd or 4th post on 2nd page, by ManteoMax says that exclusive cars will roll around again, one way or another.


That's such a redeeming quality of it all! Wow! And if I'm away when they roll around whenever that may be, then what?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#88 Posted : Monday, July 29, 2019 5:37:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: upcaman Go to Quoted Post
You Have Nailed Their Coffin Good!

I couldn't add anything to your post, just that I have ran into the same frustrations and the Apollo car is one of those, I have tried nearly a hundred times to buyout the Apollo car in the auction house and it is obviously locked and only Elite Users (What I mean By Elite = Not Related To the Ranking Formula But Insiders or Clubs Who are Coddled By Auction House Moderators Mangers) are able to buyout (or teams of users working frantically on PCs searching 24x7 manually or with auction bot apps to snipe these cars before they barely enter the bid now buyout status) these cars.

I have tried to search-buyout just this car for an hour or two straight and have managed to click Buyout on maybe ten of those cars (most of which are listing at 575K!!!) and continue to get buyout failed. I knew these cars where being handed to elite users who then immediately list them for $20mil Bid-Buyout and then the car sells for $20mil to users mainly who have probably either worked hard to gain those credits and have to drop them on these cars (when elite users obtained them for $575) or they are bought by cheating users who have obtained those credits through by scamming the game somehow.

Anyway, I still play the game but it has left a bad taste in my mouth as far as if I am going to continue to invest my real money (not virtual) into more of these games.

-upcaman


I think your tinfoil hat is cutting off circulation to your brain.
Rank: Racing Permit
 10 users liked this post.
#89 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 8:32:51 AM(UTC)
I agree with everything the OP had to say.

Everything about this game stinks now, nothing feels genuine about it anymore, everything that happens with it now feels like there some underlying scheme behind it. Some scheme to tick a box in the monthly share holder meetings behind the scenes.

It leaves me loving to hate this game, I love to hate what it's become because I know what it once was; A genuine hang out of casual and hardcore car fans, driving hyper, old, common and electric cars, not discriminating against any of them. Letting you use your favourite cars to do everything in.

Now it's just a restrictive time based heap of live service hot trash. It pains me to see all this wasted time and effort from the Dev team going into the livestreams and playlist, when it could be spent doing much more valuable stuffto your game!

Absolutely No One asked Forza Horizon to become a monthly Chore of a game, but you've made it one.. How does that even work!? You've even implemented some fake bogus in-game economy of cars, as of they were weapons in a mmo. It's just straight up disappointing PG.

I would say learn from your mistakes, but at this point you're so blinded by your own incompetence that you probably don't consider all these comments from vets of this franchise cause for concern.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 8:42:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 4 users liked this post.
#90 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 8:58:36 AM(UTC)
One thing that hasn't been discussed: if not though manipulative gimmicks, how do you drive player engagement?

Take a look at Turn 10's Bounty Hunter events for inspiration. By bringing in people that interest the community and giving the opportunity to benchmark yourself against their performance, you benefit from the player's existing interest without having to create it artificially.

Instead of saying "what do we want players to care about, and how can we make them", ask "what do the players already care about, and how can we build on that?"
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 6 users liked this post.
#91 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 10:18:14 AM(UTC)
I agree with the OP and also wonder what the end game is now in this game? I guess some people will just continue to collect cars, others may continue to paint, maybe it's rivals for others and maybe it's just single player racing or racing with friends privately for some people.

For me this series has always been about Online adventure(besides H1). That is my end game. That is what gives games longevity for me once the SP stuff is done. And since it is so disgustingly awful with this win by all means dirty driving I now have no end game. I uninstalled this game back in December and didn't reinstall it until Drift Adventure was released. I thought well at least I won't get blasted into constantly in Drift Adventure...and I don't even care for drifting! I just wanted to feel like I didn't completely set 100 plus dollars on fire with my purchase of this game. Nothing about this game is designed for my play style with me being a clean and competitive online racer. If anything it has been designed to be the complete opposite of how I and the other 20 or so people on my friends list play or should I say played. Some have gone over to the darkside of just bashing, ramming and checkpointing people but most don't play this game at all. I've got friends that I used to play with a few times a week that haven't fired their Xbox up in over 6 months! Don't get me wrong I'm well aware that the Forza titles in general have always been loaded with bad drivers but there used to be an escape...the expansions. Storm Island was an escape, Blizzard Mountain was an escape. I learned to love the dirt and snow because it proved far more difficult to drive in and most wall riding asphalt idiots couldn't hang. Now we have expansions with no MP. So there is no escape. Race with random toxic players or don't play it at all.

I've seen people say the typical "for all the complaining your'e doing, you guys will be back next year or with the next game doing the same thing." Nah. I've left many of franchises in the dust once they became incredibly annoying, childish or just plain NOT FUN. It's not like I want the Horizon series to not be fun but if PG is going to continue to push further away from why I loved this series I won't be joining them.
If you could go ahead and take out all the things I loved about Horizon, that would be great.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#92 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 10:48:08 AM(UTC)
The endgame is already here: it's the Playlist continuing to deliver new challenges and cars until they pull the plug.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 5 users liked this post.
#93 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:22:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
The endgame is already here: it's the Playlist continuing to deliver new challenges and cars until they pull the plug.


More like yawnfest tedious grinding for people who don't care about having every car in the game. How exciting!

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:24:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

If you could go ahead and take out all the things I loved about Horizon, that would be great.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#94 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:33:11 PM(UTC)
You know, I would actually love some endgame challenges with special conditions and high credit rewards.

Because I'm not a legendary tuner/painter and can't make mega millions from the auction house.

I'd like to be able to buy all the cars in the autoshow, including the ones that are 6, 7, 10 million each.

After all this time playing and trying really hard to be frugal with my autoshow spending, I've saved up about 68 million. And that's still not enough to buy all the cars in the autoshow that I'm missing. :(

So how about some seasonal challenges that reward large amounts of credits instead of useless wheelspins?
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#95 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 1:46:55 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KOG7777 Go to Quoted Post
You know, I would actually love some endgame challenges with special conditions and high credit rewards.

Because I'm not a legendary tuner/painter and can't make mega millions from the auction house.

I'd like to be able to buy all the cars in the autoshow, including the ones that are 6, 7, 10 million each.

After all this time playing and trying really hard to be frugal with my autoshow spending, I've saved up about 68 million. And that's still not enough to buy all the cars in the autoshow that I'm missing. :(

So how about some seasonal challenges that reward large amounts of credits instead of useless wheelspins?


I'd love ghost ranked racing.
I'd love the old skill points system for online back just tweaked.
I'd love dirt tracks that were more than 10% dirt.
I'd love being able to change the season to what I want.
I'd love Rivals being more robust and not as plain Jane as possible.
I'd love the ability to have rivals on your own created tracks where you can challenge friends to beat your time.
I'd love to have championships in SP back or have it actually matter what position you finish in during a SP race..
I'd love to never get a skirt in a wheelspin ever again.
I'd love to never get spammed to death with obnoxious "Nice driving" messages through an entire online race.
I'd love for the BS and Trak-tor to disappear from existence.
I'd love for cars to not be locked behind timed challenges.
I'd love not having certain posters on here defend this game tooth and nail as if it's the best of the Horizon games.
I'd love a lot of things but I know what I'm not gonna get...Any of them!

What you are asking may happen as it doesn't require much but I still wouldn't count on it.


If you could go ahead and take out all the things I loved about Horizon, that would be great.
Rank: Driver's License
#96 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 2:00:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KOG7777 Go to Quoted Post
I'd like to be able to buy all the cars in the autoshow, including the ones that are 6, 7, 10 million each.

After all this time playing and trying really hard to be frugal with my autoshow spending, I've saved up about 68 million. And that's still not enough to buy all the cars in the autoshow that I'm missing. :(


If you have the patience, inclination and a bit of luck, many of the autoshow multi-million cars can be had from the auction house at significantly less than the autoshow price.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#97 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 2:05:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love dirt tracks that were more than 10% dirt.

Make your own.

Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love to never get a skirt in a wheelspin ever again.

You don't get them anymore once you unlock all the skirts, and better yet all the articles of clothing, that can be won on wheelspins.

Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love to never get spammed to death with obnoxious "Nice driving" messages through an entire online race.

And entire race? Never happened to me.

Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love not having certain posters on here defend this game tooth and nail as if it's the best of the Horizon games.

It's not.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#98 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 2:33:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
The endgame is already here: it's the Playlist continuing to deliver new challenges and cars until they pull the plug.


More like yawnfest tedious grinding for people who don't care about having every car in the game. How exciting!


Thing is, even without new cars, I'd keep playing if the weekly challenges were interesting. They're very hit or miss, though, especially this week.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#99 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 3:33:47 PM(UTC)
I really have no idea which side of the fence I'm on anymore. What if PG does put the new Aventador or the new Ferrari into the game? Will the bellyaching really be over? I bet there will still be players howling for more Audis or for Toyota to return. I'd say you'll still have the forums full of players griping about having to do 'tedious grinding' so they don't lose out on their beloved Lambo.
Do people even buy the expensive cars out the Autoshow anymore? They count towards car collection as well.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 30, 2019 3:35:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#100 Posted : Tuesday, July 30, 2019 3:40:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love dirt tracks that were more than 10% dirt.

Make your own.

Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love to never get a skirt in a wheelspin ever again.

You don't get them anymore once you unlock all the skirts, and better yet all the articles of clothing, that can be won on wheelspins.

Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love to never get spammed to death with obnoxious "Nice driving" messages through an entire online race.

And entire race? Never happened to me.

Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I'd love not having certain posters on here defend this game tooth and nail as if it's the best of the Horizon games.

It's not.



Ahh so you're one of those pick and choose when quoting types. Outstanding.

I have made my own tracks for dirt but can those tracks be raced in Online Adventure? No.

I should have put no clothing items in wheelspins but your answer would still be the same.

Yes an entire race numerous times. Maybe not every single second of said race but enough to where the "Nice driving" message stayed on my screen the whole race.

Hooray we agree on 1 thing.
If you could go ahead and take out all the things I loved about Horizon, that would be great.
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