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Rank: D-Class Racing License
#301 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 11:21:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
[Even if they've kinda behaved like "defend no matter what"?...

Yes. It balances those "rant no matter what" comments.
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
As yourself have realized... there's indeed no real need for them.
Are flatteries comparable to "So glad that the game even works!" any more contributive than those 99% rants?.

Probably not. But flatteries comparable to "Thanks for the Eliminator! It really is a unique and intense experience.", "It's so nice that you add vehicles from the past and not only the new ones." Probably yes.
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Of two evils choose the lesser.

I was thinking more on the line of now you have people that complain about exlusive rewards being offered and if you fix it you will have people that will complain about rewards not worth enough.
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
[What if the rewards are not exclusive and freely available?.. (e.g. freely available in the Autoshow)

Will it really impact your gaming experience?

It would probably have an impact on the online portion off the game(Eliminator,Trial,PG) and that would probably have an impact on my gaming experience, yes.
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
[Very likely.

It sound like "my way or the highway".


Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#302 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2020 1:08:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LoneWolfAlex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
Oh no, I have to go on holidays and can't collect a few pixels. My life is ruined!!!

I have paid for this game. Shouldn't I be able to have the full content? Or am I to old school?
Where did I whine?


If you were really oldschool, you'd had an entire generation of games that you could not play fully if you did not have the skill. Like every jump and run has a steep learning curve. Did you enjoy all the content of Furi, Cuphead or Super Meat Boy? Did you finish all Megaman games with all achievements? People playing those games accepted that at some point, the game was too hard and they cannot see all content.

The constant whining of casual gamers that games are too hard or that they cannot play all content is a thing of the recent years.

Newsflash for you: When you paid for Forza H 4, a lot of the content was not even available. My guess is that you have all the content of the paid game in your garage. When designers decide to give you free updates, they can do it on their condition, don't you agree? And if you don't have the time or the skill, that is tough luck.

In my world, sometimes stuff needs to be earned. Or am I too old school?

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#303 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2020 4:17:54 AM(UTC)
I remember during Forza Motorsport 4....I got a yellow Scion FR-S that was designed by a Game developer that was different from the one offered in the game...performance wise and it had a different bodykit that was unavailable in the game....you had to beat his time in a Monthly Rivals event...this was before Forzathon and wheels spins....that was a true unicorn....Forza Editions took the place of Unicorns because you could only get those cars for a limited time once...making them ultra rare....with that said, a Unicorn could be worth 10 million easy...if you ever saw one up for grabs in the Auction House...the playing ground has been leveled and that aspect of the game is missed by me.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#304 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2020 5:45:19 AM(UTC)
Previous



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Even if they've kinda behaved like "defend no matter what"?..

Yes. It balances those "rant no matter what" comments.

Neither practice is contributive and should be strongly discouraged.


Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
As yourself have realized... there's indeed no real need for them.

Are flatteries comparable to "So glad that the game even works!" any more contributive than those 99% rants?

Probably not. But flatteries comparable to "Thanks for the Eliminator! It really is a unique and intense experience.", "It's so nice that you add vehicles from the past and not only the new ones." Probably yes.

Regardless... flatteries won't get us anywhere. Nor will irrationality.



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Of two evils choose the lesser.

I was thinking more on the line of now you have people that complain about exlusive rewards being offered and if you fix it you will have people that will complain about rewards not worth enough.

Is the reward really what people play the game for?..


Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
What if the rewards are not exclusive and freely available?.. (e.g. freely available in the Autoshow)

Will it really impact your gaming experience?

It would probably have an impact on the online portion off the game(Eliminator,Trial,PG) and that would probably have an impact on my gaming experience, yes.

If players were no more forced to play these modes, a decline of grieving behaviors in them can be foreseeable.

Without considering the impact of other players, your gaming experience shall be able to remain identical.





Originally Posted by: DunkelheitVZ Go to Quoted Post
...cannot play all content...

Having the content generally inaccessible to a large extent defied the purpose of the content itself:

What's the difference between unavailable and available but not utilized?





Originally Posted by: BIG DAP PACINO Go to Quoted Post
I remember during Forza Motorsport 4....I got a yellow Scion FR-S that was designed by a Game developer that was different from the one offered in the game...performance wise and it had a different bodykit that was unavailable in the game....you had to beat his time in a Monthly Rivals event...this was before Forzathon and wheels spins....that was a true unicorn....Forza Editions took the place of Unicorns because you could only get those cars for a limited time once...making them ultra rare....with that said, a Unicorn could be worth 10 million easy...if you ever saw one up for grabs in the Auction House...the playing ground has been leveled and that aspect of the game is missed by me.

Will you still miss such design... if you didn't ever have the chance to get any of such Unicorns?



Follow-Up

Edited by user Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:53:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#305 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2020 6:38:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
NFS and The Crew are trash. They don't compete with Horizon. Test drive unlimited was a competition and a reason why Horizon is so good now.

And it's different to have everything open and have some "free" cars for a year. Don't copy trash games.


Yes, that may be true. But the games you've mentioned (Dirt, Project Cars and Assetto Corsa) are traditional track racers and you shoudn't compare them to the Horizon series. The Crew 2 and NfS Heat are more accurate competitors.

I agree with you that all cars in Motorsport series should be accessible to everyone. But open world racers like Horizon follow a different gameplay rule.

Even in Test Drive Unlimited I don't remember having access to all cars right away. I think you had to discover the car dealers first to be able to buy from them.


Having cars available via SP challenges and world discovery I can do any time at my own pace is VERY different from the devs saying "this car is only available for a week, hope you can find time to log in and do a repeat of earlier challenges". The former is a staple of open world racing games and I have no problem with, the second is a problem that has resulted in a significant number of cars in FH3 and FH4 no longer being obtainable at all regardless of your skill level, credit balance or time to play, unless you get lucky on the AH.

Last I checked this was supposed to be a car game, not an auction house babysitting simulator.

Edited by user Friday, May 15, 2020 6:41:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#306 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2020 8:48:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BIG DAP PACINO Go to Quoted Post
I remember during Forza Motorsport 4....I got a yellow Scion FR-S that was designed by a Game developer that was different from the one offered in the game...performance wise and it had a different bodykit that was unavailable in the game....you had to beat his time in a Monthly Rivals event...this was before Forzathon and wheels spins....that was a true unicorn....Forza Editions took the place of Unicorns because you could only get those cars for a limited time once...making them ultra rare....with that said, a Unicorn could be worth 10 million easy...if you ever saw one up for grabs in the Auction House...the playing ground has been leveled and that aspect of the game is missed by me.


Nowadays, FE cars are given away like candy and regular cars became unicorns. How is this optimal in any way? Most FE cars don't even have exclusive bodykits BTW.

In fact, one of Playground's favorite things in FH4 is repeatedly making gamebreaking cars available either via Playlist or Forzathon Shop. Cars like Koenigsegg CCGT or Hoonigan RS200 completely break the game, but they're often in the Shop/given away as prize. Even the Agera RS and the Formula Drift cars were implicitly designed as P2W content, it's just not very obvious.

Even in FH3, the only HE car I could consistently make money with was the Supra. Ironically, I only ever got one, so I never sold it. Many other cars were undesirable, so they had no value.

Originally Posted by: DunkelheitVZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: LoneWolfAlex Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DunkinDonutsNr1 Go to Quoted Post
Oh no, I have to go on holidays and can't collect a few pixels. My life is ruined!!!

I have paid for this game. Shouldn't I be able to have the full content? Or am I to old school?
Where did I whine?


If you were really oldschool, you'd had an entire generation of games that you could not play fully if you did not have the skill. Like every jump and run has a steep learning curve. Did you enjoy all the content of Furi, Cuphead or Super Meat Boy? Did you finish all Megaman games with all achievements? People playing those games accepted that at some point, the game was too hard and they cannot see all content.

The constant whining of casual gamers that games are too hard or that they cannot play all content is a thing of the recent years.

Newsflash for you: When you paid for Forza H 4, a lot of the content was not even available. My guess is that you have all the content of the paid game in your garage. When designers decide to give you free updates, they can do it on their condition, don't you agree? And if you don't have the time or the skill, that is tough luck.

In my world, sometimes stuff needs to be earned. Or am I too old school?



Are you seriously comparing the pathetically easy championships of FH4 to Megaman games? Really? Do you even videogame, bro?

FH4's take on "effort" is much more akin to a grind than a challenge. Personally, as a gamer, I feel insulted to see someone comparing the difficulty of classic games such as Megaman, Ninja Gaiden or Super Mario Bros. to FH4's "do 50 Threading the Needle skills" Forzathons, lol.

In Super Mario Kart, the 150cc cup was very hard. In FH4, on the other hand, you can reach Tier 24 on the Eliminator without ever winning a match, it just takes longer. Where's the challenge?

Besides, all this "effort" talk is a strawman, because many if not most of us critics have beaten the vast majority of the game's really difficult tasks. What we complain about is the timed aspect, always have. As far as can remember, you didn't have weekly deadlines to fight Megaman's bosses and win their weapons.

Edited by user Friday, May 15, 2020 9:00:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#307 Posted : Friday, May 15, 2020 2:32:20 PM(UTC)
Something doesn't have to be time-consuming to be a grind.

This lockdown I've enjoyed several hours of Dark Souls 1 + 2 almost every day while most of my time spent doing the playlist each week in FH4 has been a chore, despite progression in Dark Souls being full of dying, far more difficult and taking a lot longer.

It cannot be put any simpler than my 1st sentence.

And yes I know 'Buhhh yu dont hav 2 doo it'.

Edited by user Saturday, May 16, 2020 2:28:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#308 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 2:23:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Neither practice is contributive and should be strongly discouraged.

And who is going to judge what comments are contributive? Moderators have already so much work maintaining some order here. And what about the right to express our own thoughts?

Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Regardless... flatteries won't get us anywhere. Nor will irrationality.

I agree. Although I also think it's not that bad to read something positive from time to time.

Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Is the reward really what people play the game for?..

This is really a difficult question. You can play games to have fun and relax. The reward is you feeling better. But if you ask me if I play FH4 after 18 months because of the rewards. Rewards that you get by doing ingame activities. Then I would say yes I do.
Project CARS is a perfect example. It's a very good game. I consider it a better gaming experience than FM. But FM will always be a better game for me. Because of the rewards I can play FM way longer than Pcars because the latest became dull after just a few months. IMHO

Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Without considering the impact of other players, your gaming experience shall be able to remain identical.

But you have to consider it. Because it does effect the gaming experience. Waiting longer for an event to start or have less crowded lobbies.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#309 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 2:25:04 AM(UTC)
Delete

Edited by user Saturday, May 16, 2020 2:27:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#310 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:18:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
[What if the rewards are not exclusive and freely available?.. (e.g. freely available in the Autoshow)
Will it really impact your gaming experience?

It would probably have an impact on the online portion off the game(Eliminator,Trial,PG) and that would probably have an impact on my gaming experience, yes.

GT Sport currently has, on the days with the most players, over 60k players taking part in sport mode races in a single day.
https://www.kudosprime.c...set=daily_sport_activity

There are absolutely no Forza-style time-locked rewards responsible for this, the only motivation for people to race is the enjoyment of racing and trying to improve their rating.

When you do an FIA race in GTS, even if you're in the top 1%, you get matched in a very narrow skill range, there can be just a few hundredths between places on the grid in qualifying, it's a much tighter spread of skill than I see in FH4 ranked gameplay, i.e. GTS is more successful, as far as I can see, at attracting large numbers of people to ranked gameplay.

So I don't see that it's necessary to use FH4-style coercion to get people to take part in online competition, what is more important is to make the activity something that people enjoy doing.

And before someone says "well why don't you go and play GTS instead", the reason I'm not playing GTS has nothing to do with any of this, it's the deficient penalty system that ultimately caused me to stop racing in GTS.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#311 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 1:53:17 PM(UTC)
Previous



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Even if they've kinda behaved like "defend no matter what"?..

Yes. It balances those "rant no matter what" comments.

Neither practice is contributive and should be strongly discouraged.

And who is going to judge what comments are contributive?

It's up to the reader to decide. And no definite standard exists.

But considering the game's evolvement, I doubt the mentioned practice can ever be considered contributive...


Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
And what about the right to express our own thoughts?

It's merely a proposal based on the fact, with no means of enforcement.

People of course reserve their right to not follow, despite the fact.



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Is the reward really what people play the game for?..

This is really a difficult question. You can play games to have fun and relax. The reward is you feeling better.

Probably the term "reward" needs disambiguation: the "reward" I mean is more focused on material rewards themselves (e.g. cars, money, etc.), instead of the impact on whom from certain activities.


Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
But if you ask me if I play FH4 after 18 months because of the rewards. Rewards that you get by doing ingame activities. Then I would say yes I do.

Merely for these in-game items?.. What if acquiring these items became effortless for you, say: merely a press of a button (or even easier)?

Would the game to you, mean absolutely nothing by then?



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FlashyClamp5213 Go to Quoted Post
What if the rewards are not exclusive and freely available?.. (e.g. freely available in the Autoshow)

Will it really impact your gaming experience?

It would probably have an impact on the online portion off the game(Eliminator,Trial,PG) and that would probably have an impact on my gaming experience, yes.

If players were no more forced to play these modes, a decline of grieving behaviors in them can be foreseeable.

Without considering the impact of other players, your gaming experience shall be able to remain identical.

But you have to consider it. Because it does effect the gaming experience. Waiting longer for an event to start or have less crowded lobbies.

For other players would otherwise not play in the way you would like, if they were not forced to?

It really depends on how entitled you are... to bias the decision.

Edited by user Saturday, May 16, 2020 4:16:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#312 Posted : Saturday, May 16, 2020 2:02:18 PM(UTC)
I agree breeminator. I would still played those modes even if there were no exclusive rewards. And after so many playlists it's also reasonable to expect players to play online modes for other reasons.
One thing still bugs me. I wonder how many players would join an event in GTS if there was an exclusive reward?
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#313 Posted : Tuesday, May 19, 2020 11:58:58 AM(UTC)
Me personally I think the economy and the way the cars are put “on market” is broken I personally hate limited time challenges in games especially in MP games, whilst it’s not as bad in a driving game as say in a FPS, the time limited cars have broken the auction house imo reward cars should either not be allowed to be sold or after a certain time put on the auto show. The game was designed to have loot pc style micro transactions, and for what ever reason they pulled this idea(SW BF 2 prob cause this)
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#314 Posted : Saturday, July 4, 2020 3:08:47 PM(UTC)
How could we have handled exclusive cars better? Here's how

When I played NFS Heat, the Black Market DLC caught my attention. The character (Raziel) gave you a car and told you to run some challenges with it. Exclusive KS parts had to be unlocked by doing these challenges.

We could have had something like this in FH4 by repurposing Forzathon. Right now, it's just a gauntlet, which repeats over time. There's cars that have been featured two, maybe three times now. What if, instead of a random car or category, the exclusive car for the season was the featured one? You have someone (Joel for example since he's the dealer) give you the car temporarily and, upon completion of all the challenges, you win it permanently.

This way if you were interested in the car you'd play around with it for a while instead of running repetitive Championships to earn a car and dropping the game afterwards. Think of it as a test drive on a somewhat bigger scale. And you wouldn't have repeated cars in the Forzathon anymore (as long as the game is supported of course).

Edited by user Sunday, July 5, 2020 1:21:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#315 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2020 7:28:33 AM(UTC)
I like the idea, but the one change I would make is to remove the time restrictions entirely. Each week a new car would be featured, but the challenges to unlock it would be available permanently so if a player misses a week, they can just load up a list of the previous challenges and play them when it works for them.
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#316 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2020 9:58:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
I like the idea, but the one change I would make is to remove the time restrictions entirely. Each week a new car would be featured, but the challenges to unlock it would be available permanently so if a player misses a week, they can just load up a list of the previous challenges and play them when it works for them.


So a complete game? Lol
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#317 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2020 10:34:14 AM(UTC)
Didn't they do something like that with a 360 Stradale in FH2? I recall doing some challenge and you got the car at the end.
Makes sense to do that.
Complete game. Lol. Funny stuff.
Rank: Racing Permit
#318 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2020 1:38:22 PM(UTC)
i have 632 cars no doubles....pokeforza indeed
Rank: Racing Legend
#319 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2020 3:01:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
How could we have handled exclusive cars better? Here's how

When I played NFS Heat, the Black Market DLC caught my attention. The character (Raziel) gave you a car and told you to run some challenges with it. Exclusive KS parts had to be unlocked by doing these challenges.

We could have had something like this in FH4 by repurposing Forzathon. Right now, it's just a gauntlet, which repeats over time. There's cars that have been featured two, maybe three times now. What if, instead of a random car or category, the exclusive car for the season was the featured one? You have someone (Joel for example since he's the dealer) give you the car temporarily and, upon completion of all the challenges, you win it permanently.

This way if you were interested in the car you'd play around with it for a while instead of running repetitive Championships to earn a car and dropping the game afterwards. Think of it as a test drive on a somewhat bigger scale. And you wouldn't have repeated cars in the Forzathon anymore (as long as the game is supported of course).


this sounds like it makes it worse than it is now, with even more restrictions
unless you add Gamer1Ks ideas to it
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#320 Posted : Sunday, July 5, 2020 4:10:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
I like the idea, but the one change I would make is to remove the time restrictions entirely. Each week a new car would be featured, but the challenges to unlock it would be available permanently so if a player misses a week, they can just load up a list of the previous challenges and play them when it works for them.


IMO your idea is better but originally I thought about integrating it to the current system since at least in FH4 the Playlist isn't going anywhere. FH4 only reproduces the system countless other online games have.

Nevertheless, it would be a good way to repurpose the Bucket List.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
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