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Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#276 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2020 2:57:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KobiH6937 Go to Quoted Post
Why would Turn 10 make such a legendary car only be available for one week?! Are you kidding me?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??! This makes me sad. If this insanity continues for any longer, I will uninstall Forza Horizon 4 for good!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Like, at least make it a bard find!

They are kidding you. Sometimes they offer a car for 24h only. And please don't uninstall the game. At Turn 10 everyone is going to be so sad.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#277 Posted : Tuesday, May 12, 2020 3:12:55 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Skippayy1 Go to Quoted Post
So... I know the economy is kinda important in horizon but I feel like some cars are just too rare and unobtainable and I think we should get some more chances for some, like the trueno. I started playing on february so I never even got a chance to get one. I think I'm not the only one who thinks this. Thanks for reading my rant and have a great day.


Thing is, the in-game economy really isn't that important. FH1 and FH2 didn't have it, and the games were better for it.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#278 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 1:08:08 PM(UTC)
This is a personal idea, but how about splitting the two ways to get the cars that are added in a season?

Cars that will be added from the Xbox One era's past Forza, for example, will be available for purchase at the auto show.
And be sure to get the cars that make a comeback from the Xbox 360 era Forza, and this is the first time Forza makes an appearance, by completing the challenge on the Festival Playlist.
This way we can have both a few new cars that we are free to buy each season and a "get it by accomplishing the challenge" style car, as PG would like.

Toyota is a prime example, but each of the cars that have appeared in past Forza's have their own dedicated fans.
The addition of these cars to the auto show will be one of the reasons we're looking forward to the new season.
The current style, where every car is only available by achieving a challenge...to be clear, it's already mentally exhausting.
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#279 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 2:15:04 PM(UTC)
You're mentally exhausted from playing a video game for 10 minutes to get an exclusive car once a week, maybe twice if there are two?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#280 Posted : Wednesday, May 13, 2020 2:47:01 PM(UTC)
Seriously, let's answer that.

Yes. There is no change in these challenges. It's a chore with no freshness; there's even a challenge that has been repurposed many times, like the Weekly Forzathon.
We've been at it for over a year now. To be clear, I'm tired of doing these chores just for the car.

And when it comes to these topics, we see defensive words like "you don't have to collect all the cars," "you're just doing it on your own," and "it's only a few hours" but we're tired of hearing these words.
I'm also a stubborn denialist user, so it's hard to say that I'm being neutral.
But, it's a discussion thread. Why don't we talk about how to make this system a little better, instead of just berating users in each other's positions?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#281 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 1:57:56 AM(UTC)
And it's sharply against sandbox gaming. I love Horizon for its sandbox gameplay but Playlist ruined it a lot. I am not saying I don't play Playlist but it's not well built.
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#282 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:04:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
And it's sharply against sandbox gaming. I love Horizon for its sandbox gameplay but Playlist ruined it a lot. I am not saying I don't play Playlist but it's not well built.


You don't have to do the playlist, ez.

Just grow up guys, you act like a bunch of children.

Edited by user Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:07:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#283 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 2:17:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
And it's sharply against sandbox gaming. I love Horizon for its sandbox gameplay but Playlist ruined it a lot. I am not saying I don't play Playlist but it's not well built.


You don't have to do the playlist, ez.

Just grow up guys, you act like a bunch of children.

Do I get all cars without it? I play racing game and need ALL possible cars for playing how I want.

Grow up, bro!
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#284 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 3:15:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: nb3254 Go to Quoted Post
Why don't we talk about how to make this system a little better, instead of just berating users in each other's positions?

It is not that those on offensive are much better than those on defensive. But you should really be glad that there are people who defend. If no 99% of this Forum would be rant only. You have to look very hard to find some praising threads. Because there's no real need for them.
At the end everyone has some valid points. And we all know that no matter how hard you try it's impossible to satisfy everyone. For players like me games that feature weekly challenges that give you exclusive rewards will always be way better than those that don't have such features. I'm still playing FH4 after so many months because of the playlist. Every time I log into the game I always do a few rounds of Eliminator than a few Trials an PG. And I'm fine if they add exclusive rewards "just to lure more players". And I am 100% sure that there are a lot of players out there just like me.
In the end it comes down to compromises. It's just that... it really look like the AH, Forzathon Shop and returning rewards are not an option or too hard of a compromise for most people on offensive.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#285 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 3:30:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
And it's sharply against sandbox gaming. I love Horizon for its sandbox gameplay but Playlist ruined it a lot. I am not saying I don't play Playlist but it's not well built.


You don't have to do the playlist, ez.

Just grow up guys, you act like a bunch of children.

Do I get all cars without it? I play racing game and need ALL possible cars for playing how I want.

Grow up, bro!


If you're a car collector, then you should get used to investing some time into a game and not expect everything being handed to you on a golden plate.

Edited by user Thursday, May 14, 2020 4:01:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#286 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 4:32:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post

If you're a car collector, then you should get used to investing some time into a game and not expect everything being handed to you on a golden plate.

I am not collector at all. I just want to play my game. I invested time into my job to earn some money to buy the game and all cars. I don't need to do anything else. And I know last cars are not free and part of the bought game.

Why other games for real car fans are different? Why I can play with all cars in Dirt rally, Project cars and Assetto corsa? Forzas are built around strange game economy which is not bad but it's worse over time and Horizon 4 is current peak of it.

Horizon 4 can stand on its own feet and doesn't need any dumb psychological stuff. It's just not right for that good game.
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#287 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 4:34:08 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: nb3254 Go to Quoted Post

But, it's a discussion thread. Why don't we talk about how to make this system a little better, instead of just berating users in each other's positions?


The thing is, these discussions are pointless. Nothing we say is going to make any difference. The game has been out for what? 18 months now? They'll be focusing on developing the next game now.

They're not going to make any major game mechanics changes at this point.

We should accept that what we've got is what we've got and be glad they've still got some people working on it giving us a few new things every now and then.

Just enjoy the game for what it is and if you're tired of it then move on and play something else until FH5 comes around.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#288 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 4:38:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jerakeen2826 Go to Quoted Post
The thing is, these discussions are pointless. Nothing we say is going to make any difference. The game has been out for what? 18 months now? They'll be focusing on developing the next game now.

They're not going to make any major game mechanics changes at this point.

I don't think anybody is expecting FH4 to change, rather they are expressing their views in the hope of affecting decisions on how FH5 should work.

My view is that all in-game items that affect the result of ranked racing should be available to everyone. Only cosmetic items should be locked behind a limited time window.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#289 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:14:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post

If you're a car collector, then you should get used to investing some time into a game and not expect everything being handed to you on a golden plate.

I am not collector at all. I just want to play my game. I invested time into my job to earn some money to buy the game and all cars. I don't need to do anything else. And I know last cars are not free and part of the bought game.

Why other games for real car fans are different? Why I can play with all cars in Dirt rally, Project cars and Assetto corsa? Forzas are built around strange game economy which is not bad but it's worse over time and Horizon 4 is current peak of it.

Horizon 4 can stand on its own feet and doesn't need any dumb psychological stuff. It's just not right for that good game.


Most open world racers don't give you immediate access to all vehicles. In Need for Speed Heat you have to unlock the cars first if you want to buy and drive them. And I kid you not, I bought the Deluxe edition with some extra cars, and I even had to unlock them first despite the fact that I have paid extra for them.

Second example Crew 2, you have to grind a lot, and I really mean A LOT if you want to just drive all cars there. Some are even locked behind time gated summit events and much harder to obtain than Forza's exclusive cars.

As you can see, Forza is not the only one doing this.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#290 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:42:09 AM(UTC)
NFS and The Crew are trash. They don't compete with Horizon. Test drive unlimited was a competition and a reason why Horizon is so good now.

And it's different to have everything open and have some "free" cars for a year. Don't copy trash games.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#291 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:43:40 AM(UTC)
And don't get me wrong, I loved Underground 2. But It's very past and not Horizon competition.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#292 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:46:13 AM(UTC)
And that makes it exempt from criticism how? Would it be okay for PG to give everyone 1 free adventure every day and unless they win they have to pay to play again just because The Culling is going to do it so Forza would be 'not the only one doing this'?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#293 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 5:51:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
NFS and The Crew are trash. They don't compete with Horizon. Test drive unlimited was a competition and a reason why Horizon is so good now.

And it's different to have everything open and have some "free" cars for a year. Don't copy trash games.

Yes, IMO Horizon should be looking to support proper e-sports use, which means a level playing field.

I've mentioned before I've been playing AoE II DE, a game which has what I would describe as a proper e-sports scene, with numerous competitions organised by 3rd parties with worthwhile monetary prizes. It has time-locked content but none of it affects ranked multiplayer competition. Some cosmetic items are time-locked, and also some functional items, e.g. recently you could unlock some "cheats" for a limited time, but ranked games don't permit the use of those cheats so having them doesn't give any advantage in ranked multiplayer, they're just fun content.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#294 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 8:48:26 AM(UTC)
I just want to see Horizon return to being a car-first game rather than an online-centric, games as a service title that uses cars as a means to an end to get players to log in more rather than actually letting players enjoy all the cars at their own pace.

That doesn't mean cars can't be awarded via weekly events or locked behind (reasonable) SP challenges, but there should be a no-nonsense way to access all the vehicles without having to deal with time gates, the auction house or wheelspin luck to get certain vehicles.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#295 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:37:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Incog23 Go to Quoted Post
You're mentally exhausted from playing a video game for 10 minutes to get an exclusive car once a week, maybe twice if there are two?


It's not something that prevents me from living. It's exhausting along the lines of associating the game with unfun content. When I think of FH4, my idea is "another week, another chore, why play this when I can play more fun stuff?"

To sum it up:

- Challenges are repetitive and grindy
- Challenges have a deadline
- The car you win is unique, it's not really an unlockable, it's a prize
- Unique cars hurt those who want multiples (fans of that model, online players who need multiple tunes, etc.)
- Owning multiples is a Forza tradition (ask any veteran)
- People make more money these days by abusing the AH with exclusive cars than by playing the game properly

The irony is that Playground secretly acknowledges this, because the Playlist has been diluted to the bare minimum. No more online unlockables. There are seasons now in which all you have to do is one offline championship. Only reason Playlist keeps going on is because they're stubborn and they've built the whole game based on seasonal stuff.

On the other hand, they've allocated more prizes to Winter in a feeble attempt to draw in more players to a season most don't enjoy. Keeps those Game Pass playtime stats high, bro!

No more online unlockables means Eliminator was really the last one and one of the worst things they did. Tier 24 to unlock the Cougar was done purely to boost Eliminator stats, because they knew there would be people like me who would go for every prize. Unfortunately, I suspect they removed online requirements due to their inability to fight hackers, which has an impact on your ability to earn the cars in fair competition (you can hack your way to victory in both Trial and TG).

Horizon Promo was their last hilarious "method" for car unlocking. It epitomizes the chore-style gameplay that Playground endorses. 200 photos for a Porsche is ridiculous. Create Blueprint, start race, take photo, change Blueprint, start another race, take another photo... That's some world class gameplay there, in a racing game. Best ever!

Except not.

Most people who play racing games want to create their own fun, that's why games used to have custom race modes, which are still prevalent in simulators BTW. That's also why racing games have always been modded, and why Assetto Corsa and rFactor were such huge sucesses in their genre. NFS Most Wanted and Test Drive Unlimited still have a sizable fanbase due to the freedom modding has brought them.

Even in FH4, people fought for and earned more freedom in the form of Class Rivals and FFA Ranked. Playlist, on the other hand, is antithesis of that. All it is, is a Forzathon 2.0 really.

You know what this game really needs? No, not modding (actually it could benefit from import logo feature but that's not what this is about). But actual improvements to Route Creator and a more expansive Blueprint. That's it. Maybe some updates to old cars alongside the new additions. But that's not gimmicky enough for Playground, it seems.

Edited by user Thursday, May 14, 2020 11:00:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

"The core promise of the Nemesis System is the ability to build relationships with your personal allies and enemies in a dynamic open world. We have come to realize that letting players purchase Orcs risked undermining the Nemesis System." (Monolith Studios)
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#296 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:56:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clutch Nixon177 Go to Quoted Post
Most open world racers don't give you immediate access to all vehicles. In Need for Speed Heat you have to unlock the cars first if you want to buy and drive them. And I kid you not, I bought the Deluxe edition with some extra cars, and I even had to unlock them first despite the fact that I have paid extra for them.

Second example Crew 2, you have to grind a lot, and I really mean A LOT if you want to just drive all cars there. Some are even locked behind time gated summit events and much harder to obtain than Forza's exclusive cars.

As you can see, Forza is not the only one doing this.


The irony in your post is that, in NFS, all of the unlocked cars are available... in their Autoshow. Unlike Forza.

I have hundreds of millions invested in my FH4 collection, so... it's not like I haven't worked for it.
"The core promise of the Nemesis System is the ability to build relationships with your personal allies and enemies in a dynamic open world. We have come to realize that letting players purchase Orcs risked undermining the Nemesis System." (Monolith Studios)
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#297 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 12:43:35 PM(UTC)
Previous



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
But you should really be glad that there are people who defend.

Even if they've kinda behaved like "defend no matter what"?..


Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
If no 99% of this Forum would be rant only. You have to look very hard to find some praising threads. Because there's no real need for them.

As yourself have realized... there's indeed no real need for them.

Are flatteries comparable to "So glad that the game even works!" any more contributive than those 99% rants?



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
And we all know that no matter how hard you try it's impossible to satisfy everyone.

Of two evils choose the lesser.


Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
For players like me games that feature weekly challenges that give you exclusive rewards will always be way better than those that don't have such features.

What if the rewards are not exclusive and freely available?.. (e.g. freely available in the Autoshow)

Will it really impact your gaming experience?



Originally Posted by: STR3LA Go to Quoted Post
It's just that... it really look like the AH, Forzathon Shop and returning rewards are not an option or too hard of a compromise for most people on offensive.

Very likely.





Originally Posted by: Jerakeen2826 Go to Quoted Post
The thing is, these discussions are pointless. Nothing we say is going to make any difference.

Why so sure?..


Originally Posted by: Jerakeen2826 Go to Quoted Post
Just enjoy the game for what it is and if you're tired of it then move on and play something else until FH5 comes around.

I happened to find it was of great fun to see how the best of the best fails.

Further reading:
https://forums.forzamoto...154915.aspx#post_1154915



Follow-Up

Edited by user Friday, May 15, 2020 5:52:00 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#298 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 7:44:48 PM(UTC)
Rare time exclusivitiy add some depth to the game imho. Also if all cars available on autoshow, auction house will lost its importance.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#299 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 10:15:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Rare time exclusivitiy add some depth to the game imho.

What kind of depth?.. The kind that's ruining the players' experience?



Originally Posted by: talhaONE Go to Quoted Post
Also if all cars available on autoshow, auction house will lost its importance.

I'd say I agree with gamer1000k's opinion:

Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Skippayy1 Go to Quoted Post
So... I know the economy is kinda important in horizon but I feel like some cars are just too rare and unobtainable and I think we should get some more chances for some, like the trueno. I started playing on february so I never even got a chance to get one. I think I'm not the only one who thinks this. Thanks for reading my rant and have a great day.

Thing is, the in-game economy really isn't that important. FH1 and FH2 didn't have it, and the games were better for it.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#300 Posted : Thursday, May 14, 2020 11:07:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: turtleCZ Go to Quoted Post
NFS and The Crew are trash. They don't compete with Horizon. Test drive unlimited was a competition and a reason why Horizon is so good now.

And it's different to have everything open and have some "free" cars for a year. Don't copy trash games.


Yes, that may be true. But the games you've mentioned (Dirt, Project Cars and Assetto Corsa) are traditional track racers and you shoudn't compare them to the Horizon series. The Crew 2 and NfS Heat are more accurate competitors.

I agree with you that all cars in Motorsport series should be accessible to everyone. But open world racers like Horizon follow a different gameplay rule.

Even in Test Drive Unlimited I don't remember having access to all cars right away. I think you had to discover the car dealers first to be able to buy from them.

Edited by user Thursday, May 14, 2020 11:08:24 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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