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If T10 already logged the complaint, then I would guess that it's now just a matter of prioritization. There appears to be two issues here, one is incorrect taillight color for some cars and the other has to do with display calibration. Personally, AFAIK, I don't own any cars in my garage that have the yellow taillight problem. As a hypothetical example, if the issue involved skins that were incorrectly rendered for an unknown number of assets, then it might be considered a time-consuming undertaking with little return in value for the invested work. On the other hand, if there were a generalized issue with how the overall game is visually being presented, then that's something T10 would probably (should probably) prioritize above the yellow taillights (assuming that the two problems are unrelated).

I probably wouldn't have known about the yellow taillights until you mentioned it. I actually had to go into the car rental section just to see the problem for myself. Something definitely changed with the taillights for a select number of cars some time after FM3, and that I agree. However, I honestly don't believe that the taillight issue will be resolved in FM7. That said, it will likely be a continued issue in FM8 if assets are directly reused for the new game (again, if hypothetically assuming that the problem is asset-specific). So it would probably be helpful to T10 to note which cars have problems as you find them and to present to them a final list of affected vehicles while they're still in the process of developing FM8. There's no guarantee that this will change anything, but if this is an important issue to you (which I believe it is), then it will more likely be addressed if some of the early research is done for them by the community instead of their staff. Else, it will probably remain a low priority issue going into FM8 and thereafter.

They have (or should) utilities to load the complete cars into test environments and test things like the lights. It shouldn't take one person more than a day to check and correct every car.

One can only hope. 😂

I assume nobody has looked up pictures of brake lights at night on real cars. Most look white or yellow with a reddish glow. It isn't really a bug, it's imitating real life which is why they aren't "fixing" it. Why would they fix it to look unrealistic?

Sorry but have to call you out on this - in the history of automobiles, not one track or road going car has been produced with bright yellow or orange tail lights. They are all red, with varying degrees of red and varying levels of glow/bloom.

The game has really poor calibration. Play FM6 or 5 - the tail lights look as expected.



Try driving the 458, older skylines, P1 or LaF. There are dozens and dozens of examples I can give you - but the problem ONLY surfaces in daytime races when conditions are cloudy, overcast or foggy/hazy. Also, low contrast conditions like Mugello, Sonoma, Long Beach, Road Atlanta and Lagunca Seca in early morning/late evening, late afternoon, whatever that setting is, hard to tell.

I will never see this problem on tracks like Road America and Yas Marina because there is only one daytime version in RA and its very bright. And Yas is also either very bright or has night driving. You will not see the issue in night driving either. In fact, during night driving, ALL cars in the game have red brake lights, but the glow/halo effect is missing. Whereas, when those dreadfull yellow tail lights appear in low contrast daytime driving conditions, there's a halo and lots of bloom around them.

How did T10 ever manage to leave such a glaring issue in the game. I can even forgive them for the missing gear animations and hollow/flat sounds on some cars that shouldn't have hollow sound in cockpit - but this is hard to forgive.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 20, 2019 12:30:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I can totally confirm what you've said about the brake light colors under different atmospheric conditions. I think it's safe to say that others with SDR displays are seeing the same thing, but either haven't noticed it or don't see it as a problem. For me, this issue is not a deal breaker. But if you haven't already, then I'd suggest that you file a support ticket at this point since you've determined all or most of the conditions in which the taillights appear yellow for a number of cars. Even if the problem doesn't get addressed in FM7, it will at least be brought to their attention for FM8. Anyway, it does appear as though FM7's production focus was primarily on HDR content, which explains why the SDR-side got overlooked here. Mistakes happen.

"Sorry but have to call you out on this - in the history of automobiles, not one track or road going car has been produced with bright yellow or orange tail lights. They are all red, with varying degrees of red and varying levels of glow/bloom."

So you didn't look up pictures of taillights then. Go do that before making a statement that isn't correct. Yes brake lights are technically red but in REAL photos and in some real world lighting conditions they are appear white (or a pale pink that is close to white), yellow or orange almost all of the time with a red glow. It's how cameras see red and depending on the person it's how their eyes will see it also. The red glow basically tricks you into thinking your looking at red but if you look past the glow you will usually see white or an orange/yellow type of color. You think they spent all this time developing the game and didn't notice the color of the lights? It's that way on purpose. LOOK UP REAL PHOTOS BEFORE COMMENTING ON THIS POST.

PS: I just looked up photos of other forms of red lighting (bulbs, traffic lights, leds. police lights, neon tubing) and guess what color they are in the middle? White, yellow and orange with a red glow. Surprise surprise.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 20, 2019 6:23:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Maybe you're right. I've never noticed brake lights as anything other than red or red-orange. Definitely not yellow but never asked myself. Diodes in particular are pure red, unless the design calls for filtered white diodes. They should always be pure red. If the brake light rendering is more complex in FM7 than 6 and prior, I'm afraid they mis-applied it to LED tails similarly to filtered incandescent tails. The 720S should have predominantly red tails in all conditions. Never yellow--there simply isn't green light from red diodes.

Edited by user Tuesday, August 20, 2019 7:04:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Uhhhh what? All tail lights are red, period, unless modified which in most places would be illegal. Maybe you should look up why tail lights are red. This was not a design decision, no other forza nor any other racing game I have ever played in almost 35 years of playing games have portrayed tail lights in any other color than red.

Is this thread is still going... Honestly, i don't get why it's such a big deal? i hadn't even noticed to be honest.

Overall game still looks fantastic, I'd much rather Turn10 prioritize the bigger issues relating to actual gameplay ...

Yet... my eyes (as opposed to a camera lens) sees all traffic lights and car tail lights as red. I've seen and driven many of these exotics - the tail lights on my car as well as my friends were all red *shocker* every time we took a trip.

I think you are defending the game for the sake of defending the game. You're quite hilarious. Please refrain from commenting further as your feedback appears to be the kind that only sparks arguments and forum bickering.

Your last comment especially seems so silly and irrelevant that it just made me gag. How much time to drivers or gamers spend looking at brake lights from the middle? They should look red from the back. End of story.

Thank you for your feedback, but I won't be acknowledging or commenting on any future posts from you, as you appear to be a genuine troll. Good day then.

"This was not a design decision, no other forza nor any other racing game I have ever played in almost 35 years of playing games have portrayed tail lights in any other color than red."

THIS - you should reflect profoundly and deeply on this - and then go on about your day.



Makes perfect sense, yet the tail lights in FM7 look plain bizarre in low contrast daytime conditions only. One playthrough in FM6 or 5, or even Horizon 2 and the tail lights look spot on. The glow and everything, feels right.

Did the developers make Forza 7 exclusively for HDR screens? Because majority of gamers are quite happy with their SDR/1080p screens, which I should add are more than enough for displaying colours, brightness and contrast in a convincing way. HDR is a gimmick that makes colours oversatured and overly bright - you certainly don't see colours like that in real life. A 10 bit or even an 8 bit SDR panel is perfectly capable of accurately reproducing real-life like colours - it's up to the developers how they utilize it. And looks like Forza 7 developers did not bother calibrating it properly for SDR screens, let alone HDR screens.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 21, 2019 12:17:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You are missing the point. Yes, lights appear yellow-ish to white-ish with a red glow around in night time. But I also noticed immediately that the colors on forza are a little off. I checked GT Sport, and their game shows the same effect, but it looks much more realistic. If you look at the screenshot one page back, you see the mclaren has very orange lights, almost no glow, and the reflections are almost pink. On the real Image showing above you see that there is a difference too, but its not that big. The fact is, it's clear that some people and maybe a lot of people see that something is not right with the lights, me included. If it's all due to the SDR, then it is how it is. If they made it on purpose then I have to say sorry the work is not good enough.

Edit: I looked at the images from forza again. There are two things they could make it better:
-They could change the reflections in that daytime to a more orange/yellow hue and it would look much better, without making the brakelights just red and unrealistic as you said.
-The red glow is completely missing. Look at the 488 GTB screenshot. There is no red glow, just orange brake lights. If they added a red glow, the brake lights can stay orange inside and it would look perfect. As it is now, they look like orange sidemarkers

Edited by user Wednesday, August 21, 2019 12:31:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Here i photoshopped the image of the 488 gtb. I just made a red glow around the yellow brake lights. Excuse me for my crappy photoshopskills, but you get what I mean:

https://imgur.com/a/URFW88D

There's so many factors to this:

In real life under certain conditions, you do see red brake or tail lights take slightly different colors. They can appear in parts to be white, yellow, orange and such depending on the refraction of light and colour under certain conditions. So yes, what you see in Forza can happen in real life.

I live right by the sea so we get a lot of mist and fog and I regularly see variations in colour of the tail lights.

In Forza, from my experience, the taillights and brake lights are perfectly fine and realistic. If the brake lights or taillights are constantly orange that points to a display problem.

A few things here despite your real-life experience:

* Tail lights always look okay in broad daylight conditions
* Tail lights always look okay during night driving, particularly when it's pitch black
* Tail lights ONLY look funny in low contrast, foggy, hazy, cloudy, low contrast conditions
* Tail lights look funny at all angles (color does not change and remains bright yellow)

How do you explain this? SDR is the problem?

If I'm driving directly behind a 458 in real life or a M3, say, their tail lights is not some trippy disco machine that will change colors. It always appears red and should appear red because I'm driving directly behind them (same with Forza in chase cam).

Ah, that's the color I'd like to see on the tail lights in low contrast daytime driving. It looks convincing.

There's so many factors to this:

In real life under certain conditions, you do see red brake or tail lights take slightly different colors. They can appear in parts to be white, yellow, orange and such depending on the refraction of light and colour under certain conditions. So yes, what you see in Forza can happen in real life.

I live right by the sea so we get a lot of mist and fog and I regularly see variations in colour of the tail lights.

In Forza, from my experience, the taillights and brake lights are perfectly fine and realistic. If the brake lights or taillights are constantly orange that points to a display issue.

Uh. What we've got here is failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. 🤣

I'd like to talk about the pictures directly above this post, and this picture, that was shared a few posts ago.


LED taillights with red diodes have no other wavelengths... The Ferrari in the pic here has red LED tails. They look a little pink, because they are bright enough to over-expose the camera sensor.

Most cars until recently have used clear, standard incandescent bulbs in the taillights, filtered to red through colored plastic. These taillights can be seen as orange, or yellow, in the right conditions, particularly darker conditions, and through a camera. The Huracan above has small clusters of LEDs in the inside-top of the tails. These are pink, like the Ferrari. The remainder of the clusters, and both tails of the Mustang ahead, are lit with white incandescents. While the primary color to the eye is red, there are plenty of infrared and yellow wavelengths that leak through the red taillight lens. Rather than over-expose the sensor into pink, and eventually white, like red LEDs will, the captured tone shifts to orange, or yellow.

Recognizing that taillights do appear (to cameras) as different colors than the lenses or convention would suggest, and Turn 10's effort to replicate that:

Problem #1: LED and incandescent tails need different low-light effects, even when present in the same housing (like the Huracan). The 720S shown above has red LED tails. They should never render yellow, or orange. Only red, or pink-red.
Problem #2: FM7 renders taillights red in well-lit conditions, orange/yellow in dim conditions, and red again in dark conditions. The effect should be negatively correlated to ambient lighting. Dark conditions should have the strongest "taillights aren't pure red" effect.
Problem #3: My eyes aren't cameras. I could care less about this effect, outside of photo mode.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 21, 2019 10:23:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Incorrect.

Reaction of light and color can change the headlights to a more orange / white-ish color depending on the conditions in real life. Fog and mist can easily do this or when extremity high humidity or heatwaves.

My point is certain conditions can cause this. The problem is people constantly having orange and white headlights but if that's the case, it's clearly a display issue or a poorly calibrated display.

Older SDR displays can't produce accurate enough colors compared to modern HDR professionally calibrated displays. That's just a fact. It's obvious SDR is just not going to look as good.

Well, regarding your last point - this still doesn't explain why F7 is the only game with tail lights looking funny? And that too only in low contrast daytime driving conditions. If I had a high-end mobile phone camera, I'd show you just how good colours look on my TV in every game I play or every movie I've seen to date. I have an eye for these things and very picky when it comes to correct calibration for entertainment purposes.

Thanks for those insights -

The problem is the way FM7 renders these tail lights. E.g. on most cars if not all - the tail lights will appear bright yellow specifically in low contrast day driving conditions. They will never, and I mean *never* take any other color aside from red when driving at night or driving in broad daylight with minimal cloud cover. But - ironically, at night, there's almost no visible halo or glow around the red tail lights. How strange is that?

It's an autoexposure problem and I think T10 may have tried to replicate what tail light colors might look like at different times of day when seen through a camera lens - and not the human eye <--- THAT I think is the problem.

Tails lights look great in FM5 and 6.

Edited by user Thursday, August 22, 2019 11:09:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The over-exposure and bloom issue is definitely accountable for the odd bloom effect around brakelights but I'm not understanding your train of thought.

Low contrast, low light conditions can cause brake lights to appear a different colour in real life, so I'm confused as to why it's a problem in game?

I have traveled the world and not in a single city have I seen car brake lights looking bright yellow and washed out due to 'low contrast lighting conditions'...

Not sure what you're getting at. Please check those photos again (in this thread and the other one)

Edit:

More annoying brake light shots to proof my point -

Glowing orangish/yellowish lights on LaF

Zonda coasting on Suzuka rain

Zonda applying brakes on Suzuka rain

Ferarri Testa Rossa braking

Chevelle SS Sonoma braking in low contrast conditions

Chevelle SS brakes still look off

Photo 1: The LaF in real life has a very satisfying bright red glow to the brake lights not bright orange or yellow. The Venom GT in front of my car has more realistic looking brake lights but the inside tail lights seem orange to me, not red.

Photo 2 & 3: The Cinque roadster is one of the biggest culprits with the brake lights never looking right and taking an ugly yellow neon color when you brake.

Photo 4: The Testa Rosa is showing those same ugly yellow brakes in low contrast conditions. The R8 closest to the camera kind of has red tail lights, but look more bright orange than red. And the F40's tail lights are red but no glow at all to indicate there's actually a bulb behind the tail light cover.

Photo 5 & 6: Sonoma in cloudy and low contrast conditions is where this effect really shows as you can see from the Chevy SS's bright yellow brakes. In photo 6, when I'm not braking (it's the fast left hander that leads to the start finish/line), the tail lights somewhat look red I suppose, but look at those drag strip starting lights. They're glowing which is nice but why are they almost white? They should look green or red.

It's not my TV Evan - it's just plain bad color calibration and autoexposure not working properly within the game. Brake lights get wayyy to overexposed and washed out in cloudy, darker and low contrast conditions. Not much of a problem during broad daylight driving with minimal cloud cover and pitchblack night driving.

Edited by user Friday, August 23, 2019 6:14:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

The color is fine but there should be a least some bloom if the "camera" is over-exposed. All the detail in the taillights.. should be blurred or obscured if the color is distorted so far. That's what stands out to me.

The ambient-light taillight color shift effect is a good idea, but it needs refinement and consistency across conditions (strongest at night, absent in bright daylight). Right now it's just immersion-breaking--"who replaced my brake lights with turn signals?"

Red LEDs should never appear yellow--they don't produce any other wavelengths than visible red. Overexposure turns them pink, eventually white. White LEDs filtered to red could overexpose to yellow. AFAIK reds are cheaper to make, and brighter than filtered whites, so most LED tails have red diodes.

Edited by user Friday, August 23, 2019 1:17:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified