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Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#51 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 2:14:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
Okay, quick update the terms of my NDA.

PG have told me I am forbidden from communicating anything at all.

The NDA that I signed states that any contents, verbal, text, visual or otherwise cannot be shared to the broader community in any capacity.

This is disappointing as well as being shortsighted, as some of the stuff I heard yesterday would have definitely helped clarify some popular issues and misconceptions.

What I can say is that, based on the feedback I have received so far (here and r/forza), there is something of a disconnect between the developers and users, in terms of what is and what isn't an issue.

Together, I believe we may be able to bridge this gap, perhaps in the form of an official user group, that in order to join, drivers must sign up to be legally bound to a certain level of confidentiality Whatever it takes for PG to trust us enough to talk to each other openly.

If anyone thinks this is a good idea, and something they might be interested in getting involved with, please let me know.



For sure, being allowed to share would have certainly helped people here understanding some decisions and I include myself BUT the glass is not empty

You went there with some feedback to share, any of it you could share, I hope will have some good outcome in the months to come.

Thanks a lot for having posted on the forum to request inputs to push them.





Neo open your mind, you are just a drivatar
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#52 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 2:24:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
I also think hired staff for communicating with customers and fans are doing their jobs within possibilities they have. If you have information indicating that this isn't the case, please do share it here and instead of conveying that hired community management isn't performing in their job within parameters set by PG.

Just the bit I quoted: "some of the stuff I heard yesterday would have definitely helped clarify some popular issues and misconceptions".
So someone has gone and talked to them and feels there is information that would help if made public. The people employed by the company have a different view, otherwise they would have shared this information with the public already. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but there is a difference of opinion. But IF the people paid by the company to do this job are the ones with the wrong ideas, then the answer isn't to open up the company's message to being communicated in an uncontrolled manner, it's to employ people who have the right idea about what should be communicated.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#53 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 2:58:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post


and clearly, juged by the lack of people in off road lobbies, road racing is want people want and like.. and most of the cars available are road cars .. so focus on that .. i dont said ditch off road completly but revise the amount of content for each part of the game experience




I guess you missed the part where devs removed xc and dirt from s2, and withheld xc from B in it's limited return to online adventures, hamstringing the exposure to offroad players would otherwise get. Oh yeah, and the removal of freeroam rush from all road and street race adventures; another reduction to off road.
Oh yeah, and then there's the addition of all these other lobbies, with ranked and playground games and The Trial and custom and teams and now lobbies for drifting, all of which dilute each other
OH YEAH, and then theres the reduction in xc events overall, not just in main game but xc got shafted in both expansions as well; some numbers...

Main game: Road (182), Street (154), Dirt (141), XC (132), Drag (35)
Fortune Island: Road (85), Dirt (92), XC (45)
Lego Valley: Road (106), Dirt (61), XC (41), Drag (15)

SO CLEARLY, judging by how you misjudged and miscategorized the offroad situation here , perhaps one might think road racing is all people want after devs have done much to mitigate offroad gameplay, and ultimately alienating much of the offroad players with every concession they made to the s2 hyper drift crowd. And did you know most of the available cars are road cars that can be tuned into awesome offroad beasts? Focus on that for a while. Maybe try focusing on the fact that the devs have ALREADY REVISED the amounts of content for each part of the game experience with a hacksaw AS DETAILED ABOVE, so let's all just cool it with the c rap all over xc/offroad/remove it from game-stuff for awhile, okay??


i wasnt talking about FH4 but the lvl design direction for FH5, u just picked that part of the post without taking in count the rest of the post

Edited by user Saturday, July 20, 2019 3:00:32 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#54 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 5:42:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
find it interesting would pick someone with so few posts here the home of the hardcore fans


I've been playing racing games since Chequered Flag on the ZX Spectrum. I've been playing this franchise since it was Project Gotham Racing, if you catch my drift.

I think the reason they asked me in is because I spend far more time playing the game than posting on the forums.

I've put in about 800 hours on FH4. What about you?





Rank: Racing Permit
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#55 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 5:53:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
[quote=audiodrifter;1113558]It is for the company to employ people who will make a better choice of message, not to open up the conveying of that message to random people.


Respectfully, I am not just some random person. I am a highly experienced IT professional, with a proven track record of rescuing multi-million pound software implementation projects for blue chip clients all over the world. My last project, before I gave up work to care for my disabled brother, was a two-year rescue job at one of the biggest banks in the world, at a cost to them of £600 per day.

I know what I am doing.

Edited by user Sunday, July 21, 2019 7:49:26 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#56 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 5:57:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
find it interesting would pick someone with so few posts here the home of the hardcore fans


1. Why not check the extent of NDA before signing them?


I've had many clients sign NDAs, though never without providing them with a hard copy, there and then. But the motorway was a literal car crash, and I arrived at Playground about twenty minutes late, hot, sweaty and extremely stressed. Conscious that I was holding everyone up, I never thought to ask for a copy of the NDAs.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#57 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 8:35:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post


and clearly, juged by the lack of people in off road lobbies, road racing is want people want and like.. and most of the cars available are road cars .. so focus on that .. i dont said ditch off road completly but revise the amount of content for each part of the game experience




I guess you missed the part where devs removed xc and dirt from s2, and withheld xc from B in it's limited return to online adventures, hamstringing the exposure to offroad players would otherwise get. Oh yeah, and the removal of freeroam rush from all road and street race adventures; another reduction to off road.
Oh yeah, and then there's the addition of all these other lobbies, with ranked and playground games and The Trial and custom and teams and now lobbies for drifting, all of which dilute each other
OH YEAH, and then theres the reduction in xc events overall, not just in main game but xc got shafted in both expansions as well; some numbers...

Main game: Road (182), Street (154), Dirt (141), XC (132), Drag (35)
Fortune Island: Road (85), Dirt (92), XC (45)
Lego Valley: Road (106), Dirt (61), XC (41), Drag (15)

SO CLEARLY, judging by how you misjudged and miscategorized the offroad situation here , perhaps one might think road racing is all people want after devs have done much to mitigate offroad gameplay, and ultimately alienating much of the offroad players with every concession they made to the s2 hyper drift crowd. And did you know most of the available cars are road cars that can be tuned into awesome offroad beasts? Focus on that for a while. Maybe try focusing on the fact that the devs have ALREADY REVISED the amounts of content for each part of the game experience with a hacksaw AS DETAILED ABOVE, so let's all just cool it with the c rap all over xc/offroad/remove it from game-stuff for awhile, okay??


i wasnt talking about FH4 but the lvl design direction for FH5, u just picked that part of the post without taking in count the rest of the post


...'direction' based off of your personal perception of FH4, not that it makes any difference.

Edited by user Sunday, July 21, 2019 12:08:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: Racing Permit
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#58 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 3:39:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
I'm going this Thursday, to enjoy a tour of the studio, meet some of the developers, and tell them my thoughts on Forza.

I'd like to gather as much information as I can to take back to Playground, which will be presented in an honest, professional fashion. But as I generally only play multiplayer (ranked and quickplay) these days, I may not be familiar with issues affecting other components of the game.

If anyone has an issue they would like me to pass on, be it a feature request, or a long-standing bug that should be prioritized, I'd be more than happy to raise it, as long as it's constructive.

FWIW, I am a qualified IT project manager, experienced in design and development, product management, implementation and support. I started a thread over on r/forza, and I've already garnered some great feedback. My plan is to log every issue reported, then try to gain some consensus among the community as to the priority of each.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.


Hope you have everyone's personal wishlist written down
I know this wasnt what you intended with your initial post but it's the way it always becomes
Good intentions but people take advantage of that


That's basically what I do. Engage with hundreds, sometimes thousands of users, of ACME's latest software application. Then, using my experience, pragmatism, and most importantly, feedback from actual users, I sort the genuinely important issues from stuff that's, well, not so important. Once that's done, a report goes to ACME, along with some recommendations, and then we work together to fix the most important things.

You'd be amazed at the results this simple approach can yield, especially when done properly.

Edited by user Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:14:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#59 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 4:19:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
I also think hired staff for communicating with customers and fans are doing their jobs within possibilities they have. If you have information indicating that this isn't the case, please do share it here and instead of conveying that hired community management isn't performing in their job within parameters set by PG.

Just the bit I quoted: "some of the stuff I heard yesterday would have definitely helped clarify some popular issues and misconceptions".
So someone has gone and talked to them and feels there is information that would help if made public. The people employed by the company have a different view, otherwise they would have shared this information with the public already. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but there is a difference of opinion. But IF the people paid by the company to do this job are the ones with the wrong ideas, then the answer isn't to open up the company's message to being communicated in an uncontrolled manner, it's to employ people who have the right idea about what should be communicated.

There's not enough information to make that conclusion. Misconceptions regarding what? Leagues? bugs? PI system? Ultimately I can *guess* it all comes down to if developers perceived customer needs match the actual customer needs. For what I have seen people gathering the data are actively doing that in these forums and in Forza Reddit.

But no matter. How this stuff actually works is that company or subsidiary like PG, has information strategy regarding what goes in and what goes out. Operative level executes that strategy, they don't make the policy of Microsoft, much less handle NDA's. See, NDA's are instruments, they are not good, not bad, just tools. Community managers don't handle matters like NDA's. Those matters are for legal reasons reserved only for those whom right to procuration, specifically NDA's signed by personnel without procuration rights, isn't a valid agreement in legal sense. Procuration rights are typically granted only to senior management and there are very good reasons why it's that way.

It's a matter of policies and community managers cannot discuss about that because they themselves are bound by NDA. Say if someone with procuration rights gets every possible angle of fan meeting covered with NDA just because, hey, cool tools, and happens to shoot himself and subsidiary in the foot in the process, there's nothing community management can do about it, nor should. Not their position.

I wanted to give you a benefit of doubt, but I think you are just pointing your finger in a matter you really don't have much of an idea. And I don't see how this helps me as customer nor developers to address certain concerns. There's old saying "Don't shoot the messenger", you know maybe that saying lives on for a reason?

You also seem also awfully trusting for a guy who haven't even bothered to write back in this, his own topic on official forum. I want to give him a benefit of doubt too, but collecting email addresses and stuff via Reddit, maybe in the US and/or UK there are means to hold private citizen or some party (activity group) accountable based on forums posts without any sort of other legal agreement, but that's not true for the entire world and Horizon customer base is global.

Edited by user Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:24:28 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#60 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 9:12:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
[quote=breeminator;1113718][quote=ClawedScroll554;1113687]
You also seem also awfully trusting for a guy who haven't even bothered to write back in this, his own topic on official forum. I want to give him a benefit of doubt too, but collecting email addresses and stuff via Reddit, maybe in the US and/or UK there are means to hold private citizen or some party (activity group) accountable based on forums posts without any sort of other legal agreement, but that's not true for the entire world and Horizon customer base is global.


Huh? Including my opening post, I've posted nine times in this topic.

Such incisive attention to detail. Impressive.





Rank: A-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:39:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
[quote=audiodrifter;1113558]It is for the company to employ people who will make a better choice of message, not to open up the conveying of that message to random people.

Respectfully, I am not just some random person. I am a highly experienced IT professional, with a proven track record of rescuing multi-million pound software implementation projects for blue chip clients all over the world. My last project, before I gave up work to care for my disabled brother, was a two-year rescue job at one of the biggest banks in the world, at a cost to them of £600 per day.

I know what I am doing.

When it comes to communicating PG's message, you are just some random person. You're not an employee, and even among employees, only a small subset of employees are typically authorised to convey a company's message to the public. That is not a comment on your competence, merely on your position in relation to PG.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#62 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 10:44:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
I wanted to give you a benefit of doubt, but I think you are just pointing your finger in a matter you really don't have much of an idea.

I'm not sure what it is you think I don't have much idea about. My only observation has been that it is normal for a company to want to retain control of its corporate message. It would not be normal for a company to invite a member of the public to talk to them in private, give them information that the company has chosen to keep private, and let them go away and make it public for them.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#63 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:10:08 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post

That's basically what I do. Engage with hundreds, sometimes thousands of users, of ACME's latest software application. Then, using my experience, pragmatism, and most importantly, feedback from actual users, I sort the genuinely important issues from stuff that's, well, not so important. Once that's done, a report goes to ACME, along with some recommendations, and then we work together to fix the most important things.

You'd be amazed at the results this simple approach can yield, especially when done properly.

For some reason I didn't see your message before I started writing my previous reply to topic.

I also saw your topic in Forza Reddit and RetroKrystal from Playground Games was also there and worked with you and community to get feedback in format usable for you and PG to your meeting. While I can see continuing this could be useful, it's so only potentially. While how NDA policies were applied to your meeting which prevents you commenting contents of your discussion, in the end it's about the product. What people at PG think, how do they feel about this or that, I for one don't know if I really need that info. At this point it's how they react, if at all. Practically what is in the next patch.

I also wonder how you are going to sanitise your data gathered via email or Reddit. I mean issues reported with a bit different wording using multiple accounts. It's not actually that uncommon even on forums that people use multiple accounts, not even necessarily to support their "main" account point but also to argue with themselves. It's sort of hilarious and sad at the same time, but reality. On this forum gamer tag makes it bit easier for staff to pick up alts but I'm sure that happens here too. Then there's that not everyone giving feedback actually even owns the game. Again it's easier to pick them up here because this super fan with account having zero achievements in game obviously haven't played the game, but if your sources are emails and Reddit accounts, what you are going to do?

Hypothetical scenario: This goes trough and you sent your data to PG, they reply and ask how you sanitised your data. What is your plan there?

I think it would also generate trust if you were transparent with your methods regarding how you sort the feedback. While I what I have seen so far in this thread and in Forza Reddit has been IMO quite reasonable, I'm especially fond to Route Creator improvements many others pointed out in this topic. While I do lot of Street Races, I get back to custom routes made by community and frankly that is the reason why I'm still playing this game. To put this other way, I didn't get via Xbox Live, I bought the Deluxe edition. While LEGO expansion was disappointing, it's still about how much entertainment I get for my money, and custom routes are really big factor for me in that.

There are however other things that tend to pop up from time to time. I haven't noticed anyone complaining about unfair Drivatar difficulty in this topic, but those threads pop up every now and then. The thing is, they aren't at least up to Pro difficulty. Say you however would get a lot of feedback saying Drivatars are too tough on higher difficulties, what would you do?
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#64 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:16:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
I wanted to give you a benefit of doubt, but I think you are just pointing your finger in a matter you really don't have much of an idea.

I'm not sure what it is you think I don't have much idea about. My only observation has been that it is normal for a company to want to retain control of its corporate message. It would not be normal for a company to invite a member of the public to talk to them in private, give them information that the company has chosen to keep private, and let them go away and make it public for them.


This is what you wrote:
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

So someone has gone and talked to them and feels there is information that would help if made public. The people employed by the company have a different view, otherwise they would have shared this information with the public already. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but there is a difference of opinion. But IF the people paid by the company to do this job are the ones with the wrong ideas, then the answer isn't to open up the company's message to being communicated in an uncontrolled manner, it's to employ people who have the right idea about what should be communicated.

We are done here.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#65 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 11:38:14 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post


and clearly, juged by the lack of people in off road lobbies, road racing is want people want and like.. and most of the cars available are road cars .. so focus on that .. i dont said ditch off road completly but revise the amount of content for each part of the game experience




I guess you missed the part where devs removed xc and dirt from s2, and withheld xc from B in it's limited return to online adventures, hamstringing the exposure to offroad players would otherwise get. Oh yeah, and the removal of freeroam rush from all road and street race adventures; another reduction to off road.
Oh yeah, and then there's the addition of all these other lobbies, with ranked and playground games and The Trial and custom and teams and now lobbies for drifting, all of which dilute each other
OH YEAH, and then theres the reduction in xc events overall, not just in main game but xc got shafted in both expansions as well; some numbers...

Main game: Road (182), Street (154), Dirt (141), XC (132), Drag (35)
Fortune Island: Road (85), Dirt (92), XC (45)
Lego Valley: Road (106), Dirt (61), XC (41), Drag (15)

SO CLEARLY, judging by how you misjudged and miscategorized the offroad situation here , perhaps one might think road racing is all people want after devs have done much to mitigate offroad gameplay, and ultimately alienating much of the offroad players with every concession they made to the s2 hyper drift crowd. And did you know most of the available cars are road cars that can be tuned into awesome offroad beasts? Focus on that for a while. Maybe try focusing on the fact that the devs have ALREADY REVISED the amounts of content for each part of the game experience with a hacksaw AS DETAILED ABOVE, so let's all just cool it with the c rap all over xc/offroad/remove it from game-stuff for awhile, okay??


i wasnt talking about FH4 but the lvl design direction for FH5, u just picked that part of the post without taking in count the rest of the post


...'direction' based off of your personal perception of FH4, not that it makes any difference.


i think u dont understand what im saying .. mostly the less open map concept .. i want then to focus more on roads than all the open areas (off road) of the map by reducing the amount of useless open spaces .. due the exp of NFS payback

then they could this way craft better rally tracks and cross country tracks

yes i might look like step back but its like the rest of the open world .. more open =/= better .. mostly because it leads to issues when designing the tracks .. like the checkpoints .. in FH1 because tracks were fully closed .. nobody could push off checkpoints

plus the number of tracks shows nothing .. look how many road tracks use the same piece of roads compare to off road or dirt tracks

and i dont know where your numbers come from but there hardly more then 20 tracks per championship

https://forums.forzamoto...61_Event-race-List.aspx
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:23:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
This is what you wrote:
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

So someone has gone and talked to them and feels there is information that would help if made public. The people employed by the company have a different view, otherwise they would have shared this information with the public already. I don't know who is right and who is wrong, but there is a difference of opinion. But IF the people paid by the company to do this job are the ones with the wrong ideas, then the answer isn't to open up the company's message to being communicated in an uncontrolled manner, it's to employ people who have the right idea about what should be communicated.

We are done here.

I honestly don't understand what your problem is with the bit you put in bold, as it seems fairly self evidently true to me, and not something I would have expected to be seen as in any way controversial. You've mentioned community liaison, shooting the messenger etc, but nowhere did I mention a specific role or shooting the messenger. I talked about the company employing people "who have the right idea about what should be communicated". Clearly this relates to the role(s) in the company where people choose what should be communicated, so is not advocating shooting the messenger.

Edited by user Sunday, July 21, 2019 2:25:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#67 Posted : Sunday, July 21, 2019 3:46:47 PM(UTC)
Okay, some very good points have been raised. And you're right, why should anyone listen to me?

The past decade, not working, has been tough. But now I feel a bit like Bruce Wayne, just about to climb out of that hole in the ground and get his bat on. Even so, I suppose that, yeah, right now, I am just some rando on the internet.

So, I'm going radio silent for a bit.

I've already got more than enough feedback to keep me busy for weeks. I'll get to work, in earnest, on my solutions log. I've already performed an array of tests clearly demonstrating that, compared to other sites performing a similar function in the marketplace, forzamotorsport.net is in urgent need of more bandwidth.

"Yeah, no shoot, Sherlock," I hear you all cry. But that's all that is. A cry into the void.

This particular issue is basic low-hanging fruit, what I like to call a Broken Window bug (incidentally, one of many I have already identified).

At the moment, forzamotorsport.net feels like a hostile environment. It feels like the developers do not want us hanging around here, reporting or talking about bugs. As this has been the status quo for years, one can only assume that it is deliberate company policy. It may not be, but to me, the customer, that's the way it appears. Of course, that may not be their intention, so seeing the issue presented in a clear and professional fashion might go some way to getting it resolved.

I have been testing the issue for the past 24 hours. The results were striking, and will be presented in a fashion that does not allow T10, or Microsoft, or anyone else, the slightest bit of scope to claim, "It's only intermittently slow, or it's your rubbish internet, or you really need to get Microsoft Edge."

I'll share my methodology with you all once I've prepared a suitably professional environment to present the information.

In the meantime, you might want to follow @ForzaDIAG on twitter.

Or, particularly if you have a long-standing, legacy issue you would like to see addressed, please feel free to contact me directly at [Mod Edit - D]

Edited by user Monday, July 22, 2019 6:29:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#68 Posted : Monday, July 22, 2019 10:35:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
find it interesting would pick someone with so few posts here the home of the hardcore fans


I've been playing racing games since Chequered Flag on the ZX Spectrum. I've been playing this franchise since it was Project Gotham Racing, if you catch my drift.

I think the reason they asked me in is because I spend far more time playing the game than posting on the forums.

I've put in about 800 hours on FH4. What about you?



1630 hours only game I play and do so almost every day.



FORZA TIER 8 10524 Driving since August 2017
looking for mature ongoing players with mic to join team #AOS
facebook.com/vanninman twitter.com/vanninman1 twitch.tv/vanninman

Rank: Forza Community Team
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#69 Posted : Monday, July 22, 2019 1:29:32 PM(UTC)
I wanted to briefly chime in with a note that, while we certainly appreciate the people who take part in user research panels, they don’t have additional “insider” access to development teams after the fact.

As a reminder, players can always submit feedback about any aspect of Forza games here on the forums. We don’t respond to all threads and we can’t grant every feedback request or suggestion but the teams do read these threads when considering work for future feature development, bug fixes, etc. Ultimately, design and feature decisions lie with the teams themselves and are informed by any number of factors, including community feedback.

Thanks,
Brian

Brian Ekberg
Forza Community Manager
ForzaMotorsport.net
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#70 Posted : Monday, July 22, 2019 5:20:23 PM(UTC)
The Forza Drivers Independent Action Group has just published one of the items from the ForzaDIAG Solutions Log.

If you're curious at all, pop over to twitter and have a look @ForzaDIAG. I'm pretty sure it's an issue close to the hearts of everyone here.

Please believe me when I say that every single issue reported to me will be treated in a similar fashion.





Rank: D-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Monday, July 22, 2019 6:24:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post

Huh? Including my opening post, I've posted nine times in this topic.

Such incisive attention to detail. Impressive.

I can se how it may appear that way. The whole forum has been wonky for me for few days now. Even today when I checked my topics I get to posts from days past, not posts that are actually new. I use MS Edge without any extras on Windows 10 with latest updates. Unfortunate that this happens but how forum works is outside of my control, not my job and so, to be honest I really don't give a damn.

That said, you could had addressed my questions anyway, you choose not to. Should I be impressed by that? Well, I'm not, like at all. But to be fair I suppose you referred to my questions in what is your latest post in topic while I'm writing this.

Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
Okay, some very good points have been raised. And you're right, why should anyone listen to me?
[..]
I'll share my methodology with you all once I've prepared a suitably professional environment to present the information.

I don't speak for anyone else in this, but what I have been looking for is transparency about how you are going to achieve your goal. If you are going to go through this sharing your methodology is IMO right move to do.

Trust is a psychological thing and it's a bit not easy to get there when it's difficult to imagine why would anyone put up all this effort for a game. I don't mean to belittle you, I don't wanna put you in bad light, but for all the possible causes in the world, an entertainment product, really?

Which sort of leads to next question, how do perceive us, customers? I don't think I speak for the whole community here, but I don't believe I speak only for myself here either if I say that as soon as some studio come up with something like Horizon 3 with physics from H4, I'm gone. It's not about the brand, platform, or actually anything but the experience.

I tried to sum up how many times I have switched racing game series to other racing game series since the late '80's and it started to look like an essay. So instead I just hope you are aware that while I'm sure there are many long timers who could be called fans of Forza franchise on these forums and in Reddit, not everyone cares what brand is put on (virtual) disc case.

It's not hostility towards anything either but about life actually. There are many great things in life and maybe there's bucket of gold somewhere at the end of (H4) rainbow, but some may think life is too short for chasing things like that.

Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post

At the moment, forzamotorsport.net feels like a hostile environment. It feels like the developers do not want us hanging around here, reporting or talking about bugs. As this has been the status quo for years, one can only assume that it is deliberate company policy. It may not be, but to me, the customer, that's the way it appears. Of course, that may not be their intention, so seeing the issue presented in a clear and professional fashion might go some way to getting it resolved.


There are three studios on forzamotorsport.net Turn 10 for Forza Motorsport series, Playground Games for Forza Horizon and Electric Square with their Forza Street. I haven't visited Motorsports forums for ages and I don't have any idea who actually manages Forza Street forum. Since this topic is on Horizon forums, I take it you mean Playground Games.

It's not that PG isn't listening. Features that were requested and implemented. I may have forgotten some

  • Route Creator feature was added
    Garage was expanded
    For multiplayer anti-ramming and anti-wallriding fixes
    Drift-adventure was added
    New lobbies / enhanced existing lobbies
    Wheel spacers upgraded option added to many cars
    Rivals mode was added


At the same time there's been controversies. Censorship of music, and you can BTW email ESBR and ask how much they had to do with it, Weekly playlist, I'm personally pretty fine with it except for dailies, not everyone wants to use Boneshaker, LEGO expansion and I'm curious if Trac-tor actually dominates B-class lobbies. This two steps forward one step back may make people who got this for multiplayer worry if this game has staying power, maintain enough player base to keep leagues worth playing.

Maybe it isn't exactly what you think, yet maybe you aren't entirely wrong. You appear to come from industrial side of things and while entertainment business is also industry there may be things that work differently there.

Edited by user Monday, July 22, 2019 6:28:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#72 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:16:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FreshGALNET Go to Quoted Post
Hi, and thanks for the opportunity I hope you enjoy your day in the land of Forza.

To start I'll place my list in order of what I personally believe to be the most important aspects, that of which reflect what causes issues and annoyance:

1. Cheating

The leaderboards are full of impossible achievement figures, from jumps of over 2,000 meters in a peel to trialblazers being completed in under 7 seconds. The rivals boards littered with impossible times with cars that everyone knows can't achieve such lap abilities.

Already logged as bug via r/forza (thank you so much! 😊)

IMPOSSIBLE LEADERBOARD SCORES, ForzaDIAG Solutions Log Item #22



2. AH Pricing and Macros

Forza has the most unfair auction pricing in any game, based on the ranking of tunes and paints v grafting. Meaning that if you have a thousand 'YouTube' fans, your most likely going to gain the ability to auction cars at 20 million. ( I know there are others who've worked hard to gain this as well as YouTubers, so no disrespect meant). A totally unrealistic price even based on how rare a car is.

Each user should by default have the option to select the price they wish to sell their car, not being based on system which has zero input into the graft taken to gain such a rare item.

Further to this a system be put in place for each search of the AH to be verified by a human prior to search commencing, thus preventing the use of 'Computer Code' to snipe rare cars.

Honestly, I've had so many comments regarding the auction house, I've just logged a generic Feature Request, AUCTION HOUSE OVERHAUL. ForzaDIAG Solutions Log #23

Over the coming weeks and months, I intend to schedule a series of workshops, focusing on each aspect of the game. So whether you're a racer, a drifter, a tuner, or painter, anyone who wants their voice to be heard will be able to join in, and help us work out what our priorities should be, before presenting our list to PG.



3. AI

The AI is broken, they drive without rules and regulations gaining unfair advantage on cornering and checkpoint areas (completely skipping them). The aggressive behaviour welcomes ramming by their nature there by carrying this into teambased races. Lower the aggressive behaviour will lead to cleaner racing throughout the game.

Again, another area which has prompted much feedback.

This one's logged as a high priority bug, DRIVATARS AND NEWTON'S THIRD LAW, ForzaDIAG Solutions Log #25


4. Microphone Usage

The game suffers badly from the lack of communication, a simple 4 button based text message system isn't ideal when needing to communicate to a team member.

It's so much easier to say 'Hey mate calm the ramming' than clicking on 'Nice Driving'

A fix for this need done ASAP.

Already logged as Feature Request, PROXIMITY CHAT, ForzaDIAG Soltions Log #26




5. Modify DLC Championships

At present the DLC'S have a fixed Championship for each season, unlike mainland they don't change. There should be the same thought put into the DLC'S playability as that of the mainland, after all these were paid for by the community and now seem deserted in place of the Festival Playlist on mainland.

For those with DLC'S add additional Festival activities throughout these DLC'S.

Already logged as a bug, NO VARIETY TO DLC SEASONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS, ForzaDiag Solutions Log #27

6. Listening to the Community

The community talks together, there are hundreds of ideas, comments and suggestions which go unnoticed or simply ignored, more times than not when a suggestion is made or asked in a live stream the reply is 'no we can't do that', without a true explanation.

We've had some fantastic suggestions such as extending the mainland, open the Forth Road Bridge add in the Isle of Man etc, all to go unnoticed. Okay I understand licensing etc, but the like of opening up the bridge and using the land to include some off-road tracks, or even adding Knockhill which is in real-life just over it, would bring more of a 'Real Britain' feel to the game.

Hop on over to twitter and follow ForzaDIAG. The more there are of us, the louder our voice, and the more difficult we are to simply ignore.




Rank: Racing Permit
#73 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 3:35:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
I loved this series. It is or should I say was the last series that didn't jump the shark for me. So many franchises have gone completely off the rails and I never thought this series would follow. They implemented so many annoying things while removing things that were what made the series what it was in the 1st place. Rivals being a great example which has finally been brought back. It's still a bare bones basic mode though with OP cars running the show. I'm looking at you Boneshaker and Track-Tor.

Anyway if there was 1 thing that would get me to play this game again more often it would be to bring back the skill system for online adventure. Tweak it, change it, add to it, take away from it, do whatever. Just bring it back as that's what made this series different and appealing to all kinds of drivers.

Logged as FR, BRING BACK SKILL SYSTEM FOR ONLINE ADVENTURE, SL# 58

As it is now it's just not fun and rather than fix it they keep throwing band-aids on a fatal wound. The ranking system is atrocious. There are tons of posts with people venting about how much time they spent to gain rank only to have it stripped away and more with 1 bad championship finish. What's the point in playing online if you are getting punished more than rewarded? It's bad enough that there are so many toxic players and now you get punished for spending your time battling it out with them. At the absolute very least if they aren't going to change online adventure back to the skill points system they need to have ghost racing in ranked.

Logged as High Priority Feature Request, GHOST RACING IN RANKED, SL# 59



Rank: Racing Permit
#74 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 4:26:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post


- Is there any possibility of a third expansion for Forza Horizon 4?
- Will Forza Motorsport and Forza Horizon continue to be separate games?
- What lessons did you learn from competitor games? Yes, you do have a competitition, give players reasons (plural) not to defect.
- What is the new content going to be for THIS game, as in Forza Horizon 4, and during THIS year, as in the months after August 2019?

I am not allowed to discuss anything that was said while I was there. Sorry.

In this game and in the next, I want:

- the option to mute all music from any and all parts of the game, all of it

I desperately wanted to call this one a bug, because of all the settings changes I need to make every time I start the game. It's been logged as a High Priority Feature Request. MUTE ALL MUSIC. SL# 60

- single player championships

As with all of the FH3 features that were removed without notice, I'm logging this as a High Priority FR. BRING BACK SINGLE PLAYER CHAMPIONSHIPS. SL# 61

- custom championships with custom routes

Already logged, high priority FR. RETURN OF BLUEPRINT CHAMPIONSHIPS. SL# 11

- to preview the course of custom routes before I drive in them

Already logged as FR, NO MAP PREVIEW ON CUSTOM CREATED ROUTES. SL# 37


- to filter cars that are "New" in my garage

Logged as FR. ADD ABILITY TO FILTER "NEW" CARS IN GARAGE. SL# 62

- to see which cars have Offroad tires in my car selection menus in all seasons, not just Winter

Already logged as high priority FR. TYRE COMPOUND FILTERS. SL#5


- a driving school to teach the young and the inexperienced how to drive, you could make it a story or something

Great idea. Forza used to ship with a big thick manual, made of actual paper, that spoke about braking points and turning efficiency. This would be a really helpful feature.

Logged as FR. DRIVING SCHOOL. SL# 64


- something to be done with leaderboard cars like Boneshaker and Track-tor which obviously combine high power and high grip even in lower classes, unlike other cars that can be optimized for one but not the other, for example using data from Rivals to rebalance the cars

A lot of feedback on this type of issue. Further investigation and testing required. In the meantime, logged as FR. REVIEW OF OP VEHICLES. SL#65

- more items to be sold on the #Forzathon Shop each week

Logged as FR, MORE VARIETY IN FORZATHON SHOP. SL#66

- character customization items divorced from Wheelspins and their randomness, as in giving people the ability to buy what they want with credits or at least #Forzathon Points, directly in the character customization menu

Logged as FR, AVATAR COSMETICS TO BE REMOVED FROM WHEELSPIN REWARDS. SL# 67.

...and the obligatory "better engine sounds" request.

Already logged as FR, BIG SOUNDS UPDATE. SL# 50.



This was excellent feedback. If you think of anything else, please give me a shout. Thanks

Rank: Racing Permit
#75 Posted : Wednesday, July 24, 2019 4:31:15 PM(UTC)
Hello everyone.

I just spent a few hours reading, logging, and responding to some posts on here. Whilst doing this, I noticed some duplication with issues already posted on r/forza.

If you've asked me to log an issue both here and at r/forza, I'd be very grateful if you could remove any duplicates.

I will get back to everyone who posted an issue, so your patience is appreciated.

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