This site uses cookies for analytics and personalized content. By continuing to browse this site, you agree to this use. Learn more
4 Pages1234PrevNext
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#26 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 3:01:41 AM(UTC)
Most of what you people requested in this thread have been brought up time and again in this forum. So I'm not sure what the point is by starting a new thread that does exactly the same thing...especially when there's already a huge feature wish list thread.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#27 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 3:02:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: xPREEMOx Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: xDeaDxZeppLiNx Go to Quoted Post



1. When looking at your own tunes in the creative hub, there should be the same type of stats for each tune as there are for paints. The way it is now, I have to IN a specific car and go to a garage, then go to my tunes and hopefully be able to figure out which tune was downloaded or liked. Why is this a completely different system than paintjobs?


This 1 right here is a solid point. It makes no sense to have to jump through a bunch of hoops to see your tune downloads.

Originally Posted by: xDeaDxZeppLiNx Go to Quoted Post
2. If i have the ultimate edition, car pass and all that jazz, why are there many cars I don't have access to? As Moss said, I'm not a multiplayer guy. I paid for the ultimate edition so I'd have all the content. There are many cars I'd like to have and at this point ALL should be at least purchasable from the auto show! I give you the '93 Mustang. Can't buy it, I've had it sniped from the auction house twice. This should not be an issue if a car pass/ultimate edition was bought.


Agreed here as well. Locking items behind multiplayer has always been bad practice.

After reading other's posts in here I'm noticing 2 things.

1. Some people don't play MP because it's toxic.

2. Others aren't mentioning MP at all.

So does this mean those that aren't mentioning it don't play it? Or does it mean that they think it's fine the way it is? I know there was a large majority of people who loathed the skill points system. I wonder if they think this new system is better. I refuse to even play it so now I'm a no MP racer as well when I played H2 & H3 MP almost every night.



Yeah, multiplayer. Well, for me, it's not been worth the trouble. I love playing together with my friends, people I know. I cant stand being forced online to do these seasonal events and championships. Flag rush during the seasonal playground makes me want to rage quit 30 seconds into it.

If there were private lobbies, things may be different. But just "being online" is not my idea of a good time.
Maxwell's Speed Shop
xDeaDxZeppLiNx
mechanic, paint
Rank: Driver's License
#28 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 7:56:17 AM(UTC)
Are u serious?? cool.

This is the first thing
https://forums.forzamoto...o-change-somethings.aspx

Fix the game crash on launch after the lego update.
More car customizations
Fix the op cars, we need a better pi system.
Couple cars wishlist for future updates xD
Toyota supra, Toyota ft1, Royota corolla hatchback, Aston Martin Valkyrie, Mercedez SLR. Henesey f5, Koennigseeg, Koenigsegg jesko. Land Rover Range Rover Evoque, Bugatti Divo, Pininfarina battista, Tesla roadster..

New mode
Ranked online by car category, engine place or drivetrain type eg: muscle cars s2, s1, A. Super Gts s1, A, s2. Extreme track toys s1, s2, A. Retro classic RWD, Supercars Front engine, Mid engine, etc...

Change the setup and tyres before the race start.

Ban the cheaters on leadberboards.

More filter options in garage, like:, tuned cars, original cars, tuned by, duplicated cars, engine power.
More fav options like, fav s1 road class, fav s1 circuit, fav s1 cross country. Fav A dirt, fav A road class, etc...

More clothes to character customization.

Return to the live forzathon if you got disconnected, and return with the points earned.

Limit the auction house search for 10 or 15 seconds per search, this will prevent the bots.

Increase the limit of saved tunings.
Add an option to see all saved tuning from all cars.

Take out the lego cars from the normal world, for God's sake.

Edited by user Thursday, July 18, 2019 10:28:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Sorry my english.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#29 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 9:44:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post

Would you mind elaborating on the shortcomings part? How has swaps ruined D thru A on many tracks? I agree theyre being ruined, but thats thanks to a few ridiculously overpowered vehicles (Trac-tor, Peel, and Boneshaker); beyond that as far as I can tell there seems to be parity beneath the trash trucks on top of most of the lower leaderboards. I'm not disagreeing, just not quite sure i see what youre getting at (all i can see are tractors, everywhere. I look).


Well, all those LB Peels, Track-Tor's and Bone Shakers are running AWD. Why?

All three profit greatly from AWD generally providing too much base grip. A car like the Peel P50/Trident irl wouldn't magically be able to manage the huge additions to power solely because it has AWD. But in the game it does.
Hard to tell why the Peels work like they do, even without adjustable suspension. That's why I would love to get some insight into value determination and PI calculation. In GTA 5/Online for example I directly know from the code why a car handles in a certain way. I can see top speed is defined by "top speed"*"engine power"*"drag coefficient".

The Bone Shaker and Track-Tor take advantage from another serious failure in PI calculation, tire width difference. All cars with a huge front tire width/rear tire width difference are strong AWD cars. Bone Shaker, Track-Tor, Nova FE, Bugatti EB110 SS. The Hellcat Challenger widebody would be too if it weren't trapped in an unfavourable PI situation (too powerful for A, too clumsy for S).
The reason for this issue is a combination of rear tire width adding to grip but generally lowering PI on AWD (the more the bigger the front/rear width difference) and the forgiveness of AWD in tuning.
You can go full oversteery with 1/65 ARBs, normally unstable oversteery springs/dampers and an overly powerful race diff which distributes as many power as you want to the wide rear tires.
My B-class Track-Tor reconverted to RWD gains ~70! PI from it. And even as A770 RWD it is slower than my B700 one. Unlogical.

Another factor seems to be the placing of the engine. Mid-engine cars tend to profit more from an AWD-swap than others. The newly added McLaren 12C can't be run with race tires, race weight reduction and rear-aero on S900. As AWD it can. My Bugatti EB110 SS gains 15 PI from swapping to RWD (900 to 915) without losing any weight. Same power/weight ratio but RWD leads to 15 PI more. Unlogical.

Rear-aero is another thing on AWD. There is basically not a single car which wouldn't profit from rear-aero as AWD. It generally lowers PI, adds to the cornering speed and thanks to above mentionend tuning does not have any disadvantages.

All of this works because the PI system has deep flaws. There are others (like the power graph of engines aren't taken into account).

In the end most of the lower class Rivals is ruined. Peels, Track-Tor, Bone Shaker for normal races, Jaguar D-Type for Goliath. S1 suffers from the Shelby Monaco KC as RWD which magically can manage ~850hp on 450kg with skinny sports(!) tires.

In short: I would like to understand the PI system and encourage PG to look into it and get rid off the flaws. If not for H4 see it as an investment into the future.

And it's a big letdown that there is not a single dev/employee with whom you could discuss this in detail. I've written numerous support/feedback tickets regarding car balancing (e.g. regarding the Bone Shaker, Track-Tor, Rimac). Not once did I receive an answer where I thought: "they know what they are talking about". Hell, when I reported a glitch I had to explain basic game mechanics to the employee.
On the other hand I've discussed things with employees from Blizzard (regarding WoW back in the days) or Rockstar (GTA Online car issues) in detail.



all the things said in the topic are very valuable but clearly, the PI fkaws are the biggest issue of the game's mecanics .. not even without counting all the issues listed by Rayne SE .. just the fact to be forced to use AWD and engine swap to get a competitive car leads to boredom because end up feeling and sounding the same .. a shame for a game valued for his in-depth physic



the issue i want to point out personnatly is about the lvl design ..

lets start by the open world :

first .. it need to be bigger .. im tired of map u can cross in less than 10 min

and the last ones clearly focus to much on off roads .. the open map sound like a good idea on paper but it leads to a lot of issues, mostly on race layout (i gonna talk about that after) but also in dev time .. so much time needs to be put into crafting the "in between" the roads part that we end up we smaller map and less roads, less road tracks, etc ..

and clearly, juged by the lack of people in off road lobbies, road racing is want people want and like.. and most of the cars available are road cars .. so focus on that .. i dont said ditch off road completly but revise the amount of content for each part of the game experience

i think the one for a best compromise between open map and closed map is what the guys of ghost games made with NFS payback (yes the game has major flaws but its map is beautyful)

this way u could even really push even more the differences between surfaces

last though .. about the lvl design in urban environment .. why not blocking the acces to sidewalk like it was the case in some part of surfers paradise in FH3 ? .. the only point of that is to get a lot of destructible prop on the sidewalk for wreckage skillchain .. but seriously why this skill is a thing its the opposite of skill .. FH is a simcade game where the best achievement is controling the cars .. but it reward u for wreckage ? .. its none sense .. this skill actually ruined online adventure because of boosting .. get rid of it

now about the lvl design of races :

well its quite simple .. go back to the FH1 route .. with fully closed tracks with no prop on the track just roads .. then no more off checkpoint (or of the road) ramming .. it goes with the half open half closed map .. if u must place checkpoint on open places .. just closed them with walls ..

in urban tracks .. follow the grid route with track closed by guardrails like monaco .. no prop must interfere with the racing

of course there is things that need to be took in count like the wallriding issue etc ..

last notes :

on the newly introduced anti griefing system :

keep the good work .. this system works very well .. only the ramming is still an issue now .. working on a colisions model that reduce impact on cars is the best solution

on the campagn game design :

go back to the FH1 route with a linear progression that makes u drive all the type of cars and classes in the game with a build up to lower end cars to high end monsters .. than give freedom to the player at the end ..

expend on the route creator .. permit us to add and remove props .. change roads like turn tarmac into dirt and vice versa ..
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 1:26:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: eduardonba Go to Quoted Post

More filter options in garage, like:, tuned cars, original cars, tuned by, duplicated cars, engine power.
More fav options like, fav s1 road class, fav s1 circuit, fav s1 cross country. Fav A dirt, fav A road class, etc...

Take out the lego cars from the normal world, for God's sake.


Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post

lets start by the open world :

first .. it need to be bigger .. im tired of map u can cross in less than 10 min

expend on the route creator .. permit us to add and remove props .. change roads like turn tarmac into dirt and vice versa ..


Multi quote didn't work as expected but mentioned in thread and I also hope you can ask about these:
Much more options to route creator, possibility to edit routes and add custom championships, add Route preview for Creative Hub Also. Also enable creation of Street Scene races to custom route creator, at least option to Blueprint swap Road Race to Street Race.

And opening up more of the map for players. The base game map, while detailed and we have seasons and all, is a bit too small.


Couple of questions from me:

Current physics are pretty good, better than in Horizon 2 - 3 IMO. Drivatars aren't that bad either at least up to Pro. If you could ask about how Drivatar path finding work? How far ahead they "see" in the world and how much information about route conditions ahead (slippery, jump, 90 degree turn, uphill, gravel, tarmac, etc) Drivatar can utilise simultaneously?

Highly variable conditions on routes, from dry tarmac to some patches of snow and ice on mountains. Could this be achieved with current weather / seasons system and could current Drivatars make it?
Rank: Racing Permit
#31 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 2:20:15 PM(UTC)
@FreshGALNET

The "no more Mustangs" thing has me a bit perplexed. I went and looked at kudosprime.com and looked at the complete car list to see if indeed there are "too many" Mustangs. This is just a sample of what I found (I did count all variants including pre order in the case of Camaro).

Mustang - 13
911 - 13
M3/M4 - 7
Camaro - 7
Corvette - 9

Now while I agree having a balanced car list is ideal, it can be a bit skewed when it comes to how a company "names" it's cars. Mustang has been a name plate for Ford Since 1964. While M3/M4 has only been around since 1989 (ish). One thing I don't want to see is 3-4 variants of Lamborghini that are only a minute adjustment from it's previous version. Brands like AMC, Pontiac, Buick, Plymouth and others have been restricted to 1-2 cars in most cases since FM4 or even earlier. What ever happened to the leaked Jensen Interceptor for FH3? Why are cars like the 1969 Corvair, 1988 Camaro IROC, and 1992 GMC Syclone no longer around? Where are some of the mid 70's cars from Europe? Lotus Europa? Alfa Romeo Montreal (which is in FM7 right now).
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#32 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 2:29:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: huiop2 Go to Quoted Post
Most of what you people requested in this thread have been brought up time and again in this forum. So I'm not sure what the point is by starting a new thread that does exactly the same thing...especially when there's already a huge feature wish list thread.


That is precisely why this thread is needed. Both titles are affected by many long-standing bugs that have been either plaguing, or mildly niggling, all of us for years.

For what it’s worth, I am a former IT professional, who, after leaving school at sixteen and becoming a messenger for a small business travel agency, worked his way up to a prominent role within the Business Technology Division of a leading global travel management company. During my time there I was technology lead on dozens of multinational projects, implementing complex suites of proprietary software applications for blue chip clients.

By the time I was forced to give up work in order to care for my disabled brother, my job title was EMEA Special Projects Manager. I was basically that bloke out of Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction, the Wolf my boss’s boss asked for when John Travolta had accidentally blown some poor kid’s brains all over their multi-million-pound project plan.

I tell you all this not to brag, but to give you an idea of my credentials, whilst assuring you that I thoroughly understand the challenges, both technical and commercial, that come with any major software implementation.

Every issue reported that is not basically just, 'WAAAAH!' will go onto a list. Which will then be prioritised, by us, the community, before PG or T10 get anywhere near it.

Trust me, this process gets results.





Rank: Racing Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#33 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 2:51:58 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: eduardonba Go to Quoted Post
Are u serious?? cool.



Yup, deadly serious.

Cards on the table: I used to be an IT consultant, a fixer, who absolutely loved his job. But I had to give all that up when my brother became sick. For the past 11 years I've been looking after him, but now he's much better, I might be able to take on a little bit of part-time consulting work.

I can't say much about the today's session yet, as I'm still waiting for some clarification on the NDAs I had to sign. What I can say is there was a frank exchange of views, and I explained to the team that the reasons I would like to help are twofold. First of all, I simply love these games, and I believe with closer liaison on some of these issue, together, we can make it even more awesome.

And, straight up, I'm not looking to get paid. Payment enough would be a nice letter of recommendation from Playground or Turn10 if I ever get round to pitching a project to EA to help them shape the hecc up.

In terms of helping people, mending relationships, and making things work better, that's mana from heaven for me. Honestly, I've not had this much fun in years.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#34 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 5:52:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NeubaumTurk HK Go to Quoted Post
@FreshGALNET

The "no more Mustangs" thing has me a bit perplexed. I went and looked at kudosprime.com and looked at the complete car list to see if indeed there are "too many" Mustangs. This is just a sample of what I found (I did count all variants including pre order in the case of Camaro).

Mustang - 13
911 - 13
M3/M4 - 7
Camaro - 7
Corvette - 9

Now while I agree having a balanced car list is ideal, it can be a bit skewed when it comes to how a company "names" it's cars. Mustang has been a name plate for Ford Since 1964. While M3/M4 has only been around since 1989 (ish). One thing I don't want to see is 3-4 variants of Lamborghini that are only a minute adjustment from it's previous version. Brands like AMC, Pontiac, Buick, Plymouth and others have been restricted to 1-2 cars in most cases since FM4 or even earlier. What ever happened to the leaked Jensen Interceptor for FH3? Why are cars like the 1969 Corvair, 1988 Camaro IROC, and 1992 GMC Syclone no longer around? Where are some of the mid 70's cars from Europe? Lotus Europa? Alfa Romeo Montreal (which is in FM7 right now).


Context, they say, is everything. Or in this case, it's 'five.' Five of the Mustangs are from 2018 alone, and shockingly/not shockingly (go ahead and feign shock) they are largely all the same car, or in the words of another, 'only a minute's adjustment' from each other. That alone qualifies as 'too many Mustangs.' In fact, just going by your own minute/adjustment metric, nearly all of BMW and it's myriad of M-something's would be wiped out (which is fine by me, but I digress...). I took a quick peek at Porsche's 911's and counted a very scientific tally of 'a bunch' from 2012 to present.

But to what end is all this fuzzy math, you ask? Well, I will bet you dollars to donuts that most players would be totally a-ok if we saw a reduction of differant 2018 Ford Mustang variants and in their stead received more models from underrepresented brands just like you already suggested in unwitting support of the point GALNET was trying to make.

It's funny this even arose here to begin with as I was about to post a tongue-in-cheek/not really/actually kind of serious Horizon 4 Car Wish-U-Wouldn't List for ManteoMax, and literally my first two items were No More Mustangs and BMW's.

Anyway, carry on, poppets...
Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#35 Posted : Thursday, July 18, 2019 6:43:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Gs JcX Run3r Go to Quoted Post


and clearly, juged by the lack of people in off road lobbies, road racing is want people want and like.. and most of the cars available are road cars .. so focus on that .. i dont said ditch off road completly but revise the amount of content for each part of the game experience




I guess you missed the part where devs removed xc and dirt from s2, and withheld xc from B in it's limited return to online adventures, hamstringing the exposure to offroad players would otherwise get. Oh yeah, and the removal of freeroam rush from all road and street race adventures; another reduction to off road.
Oh yeah, and then there's the addition of all these other lobbies, with ranked and playground games and The Trial and custom and teams and now lobbies for drifting, all of which dilute each other
OH YEAH, and then theres the reduction in xc events overall, not just in main game but xc got shafted in both expansions as well; some numbers...

Main game: Road (182), Street (154), Dirt (141), XC (132), Drag (35)
Fortune Island: Road (85), Dirt (92), XC (45)
Lego Valley: Road (106), Dirt (61), XC (41), Drag (15)

SO CLEARLY, judging by how you misjudged and miscategorized the offroad situation here , perhaps one might think road racing is all people want after devs have done much to mitigate offroad gameplay, and ultimately alienating much of the offroad players with every concession they made to the s2 hyper drift crowd. And did you know most of the available cars are road cars that can be tuned into awesome offroad beasts? Focus on that for a while. Maybe try focusing on the fact that the devs have ALREADY REVISED the amounts of content for each part of the game experience with a hacksaw AS DETAILED ABOVE, so let's all just cool it with the c rap all over xc/offroad/remove it from game-stuff for awhile, okay??

Edited by user Thursday, July 18, 2019 6:46:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Every train needs a caboose, right?
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#36 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 1:06:51 AM(UTC)
@Squryl

Yeah, I wasn't necessarily trying to "counter-point" his post. I just never thought of it in that way. Licensing for cars has always been a mixed bag (Toyota anyone?). And I get why sometimes car manufacturers get "prickly" when it comes to allowing cars in these type of games. I wish there was a way to allow for more transparency on the "whys" and "hows". I'm a huge fan of the slightly off-beat cars and would love to see more.

I will always view a large number of cars in game as Playground/Turn10 working their butts off to get said licenses. That's never a bad thing.


Look at it this way, it could always be worse........There are more Mustangs in Motorsport than there are in Horizon ;)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#37 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 1:22:02 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post

Context, they say, is everything. Or in this case, it's 'five.' Five of the Mustangs are from 2018 alone, and shockingly/not shockingly (go ahead and feign shock) they are largely all the same car, or in the words of another, 'only a minute's adjustment' from each other. That alone qualifies as 'too many Mustangs.' In fact, just going by your own minute/adjustment metric, nearly all of BMW and it's myriad of M-something's would be wiped out (which is fine by me, but I digress...). I took a quick peek at Porsche's 911's and counted a very scientific tally of 'a bunch' from 2012 to present.

But to what end is all this fuzzy math, you ask? Well, I will bet you dollars to donuts that most players would be totally a-ok if we saw a reduction of differant 2018 Ford Mustang variants and in their stead received more models from underrepresented brands just like you already suggested in unwitting support of the point GALNET was trying to make.

It's funny this even arose here to begin with as I was about to post a tongue-in-cheek/not really/actually kind of serious Horizon 4 Car Wish-U-Wouldn't List for ManteoMax, and literally my first two items were No More Mustangs and BMW's.

Anyway, carry on, poppets...

I was pretty fine with how it used to be in, like we have certain definite models from certain era, like '87 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA from '80s era 3rd. generation Firebirds. '95 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 is pinnacle C4 generation, and so on. While it's not perfect solution, for example '92 Ferrari 512 TR, while having similar looks, it's actually redesigned version of '80s Testarossa, famous supercar from Miami Vice and featured in arcade game Outrun and PC game Test Drive game in the 80's. While '80s Testarossa is cultural icon, I don't really have a problem that not being in the game, as we have sort of definitive version. And that Fiat might not be easily persuaded to licence '80's Testarossa.

I would gladly trade few of those new Mustangs with minimal differences to '50's era Ford Thunderbird, which might not be competitive against 'Vette, but there's Plymouth Fury, Hudson Hornet and Chevy Bell Air, and Ford Pickup Truck from the era. So sometimes adding a new car might add something to how races blueprinted for that era of cars would look and feel.

We have many Nissan Skyline's in game. Many because they are classics, but do we really need that many? '87 Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) is great to have in game. It's definite model of beginning of design phase in Nissan and in game it also gives option to race it against other '80's legends, while remaining in C-class (stock).

Skyline GT-R V-Spec (1993) and Skyline GT-R V-Spec (1997) is a bit different matter. In stock they have 13 points difference in PI. This might be a bigger car culture thing related to Japan, but I would probably be fine with just '97 for '90's era and so on.

What I hope could be taken to developers from this, is that I hope that mile long car request lists would go mostly ignored. I have spent quite a lot of time with Horizon 4, have over 1000 races, tens of millions of credits, have almost every car, most via Wheelspins and rewards, and I haven't yet tried most of cars I have. I find it difficult to believe that all people wishing 20-40 more cars to Horizon 4, would actually even try them all in game. Horizon IMO, doesn't need every possible car ever built, but right cars and right amount from different decades.
Rank: Racing Permit
 4 users liked this post.
#38 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 2:19:04 PM(UTC)
Okay, quick update the terms of my NDA.

PG have told me I am forbidden from communicating anything at all.

The NDA that I signed states that any contents, verbal, text, visual or otherwise cannot be shared to the broader community in any capacity.

This is disappointing as well as being shortsighted, as some of the stuff I heard yesterday would have definitely helped clarify some popular issues and misconceptions.

What I can say is that, based on the feedback I have received so far (here and r/forza), there is something of a disconnect between the developers and users, in terms of what is and what isn't an issue.

Together, I believe we may be able to bridge this gap, perhaps in the form of an official user group, that in order to join, drivers must sign up to be legally bound to a certain level of confidentiality Whatever it takes for PG to trust us enough to talk to each other openly.

If anyone thinks this is a good idea, and something they might be interested in getting involved with, please let me know.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#39 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 3:13:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post

Context, they say, is everything. Or in this case, it's 'five.' Five of the Mustangs are from 2018 alone, and shockingly/not shockingly (go ahead and feign shock) they are largely all the same car, or in the words of another, 'only a minute's adjustment' from each other. That alone qualifies as 'too many Mustangs.' In fact, just going by your own minute/adjustment metric, nearly all of BMW and it's myriad of M-something's would be wiped out (which is fine by me, but I digress...). I took a quick peek at Porsche's 911's and counted a very scientific tally of 'a bunch' from 2012 to present.

But to what end is all this fuzzy math, you ask? Well, I will bet you dollars to donuts that most players would be totally a-ok if we saw a reduction of differant 2018 Ford Mustang variants and in their stead received more models from underrepresented brands just like you already suggested in unwitting support of the point GALNET was trying to make.

It's funny this even arose here to begin with as I was about to post a tongue-in-cheek/not really/actually kind of serious Horizon 4 Car Wish-U-Wouldn't List for ManteoMax, and literally my first two items were No More Mustangs and BMW's.

Anyway, carry on, poppets...

I was pretty fine with how it used to be in, like we have certain definite models from certain era, like '87 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA from '80s era 3rd. generation Firebirds. '95 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 is pinnacle C4 generation, and so on. While it's not perfect solution, for example '92 Ferrari 512 TR, while having similar looks, it's actually redesigned version of '80s Testarossa, famous supercar from Miami Vice and featured in arcade game Outrun and PC game Test Drive game in the 80's. While '80s Testarossa is cultural icon, I don't really have a problem that not being in the game, as we have sort of definitive version. And that Fiat might not be easily persuaded to licence '80's Testarossa.

I would gladly trade few of those new Mustangs with minimal differences to '50's era Ford Thunderbird, which might not be competitive against 'Vette, but there's Plymouth Fury, Hudson Hornet and Chevy Bell Air, and Ford Pickup Truck from the era. So sometimes adding a new car might add something to how races blueprinted for that era of cars would look and feel.

We have many Nissan Skyline's in game. Many because they are classics, but do we really need that many? '87 Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) is great to have in game. It's definite model of beginning of design phase in Nissan and in game it also gives option to race it against other '80's legends, while remaining in C-class (stock).

Skyline GT-R V-Spec (1993) and Skyline GT-R V-Spec (1997) is a bit different matter. In stock they have 13 points difference in PI. This might be a bigger car culture thing related to Japan, but I would probably be fine with just '97 for '90's era and so on.

What I hope could be taken to developers from this, is that I hope that mile long car request lists would go mostly ignored. I have spent quite a lot of time with Horizon 4, have over 1000 races, tens of millions of credits, have almost every car, most via Wheelspins and rewards, and I haven't yet tried most of cars I have. I find it difficult to believe that all people wishing 20-40 more cars to Horizon 4, would actually even try them all in game. Horizon IMO, doesn't need every possible car ever built, but right cars and right amount from different decades.


Having the latest and best poses a problem sometimes. The 512 TR and E30 M3 are icons of the 80s but can't be used in an 80s championship because the actual MY in the game for those cars is from the 90s. Besides... The 512 TR isn't even the final version of the Testarossa, lol. That honor goes to the 512 M, which people tend to hate on because it lacks the pop-up headlights and the square taillights of the earlier models.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: Driver's License
#40 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 4:57:48 PM(UTC)
please ask if the lamborghini avenador svj 2018 bmw m850i 2010 bmw m3 gts ar beinging aadded thanks
Rank: Racing Legend
#41 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 5:44:33 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
I'm going this Thursday, to enjoy a tour of the studio, meet some of the developers, and tell them my thoughts on Forza.

I'd like to gather as much information as I can to take back to Playground, which will be presented in an honest, professional fashion. But as I generally only play multiplayer (ranked and quickplay) these days, I may not be familiar with issues affecting other components of the game.

If anyone has an issue they would like me to pass on, be it a feature request, or a long-standing bug that should be prioritized, I'd be more than happy to raise it, as long as it's constructive.

FWIW, I am a qualified IT project manager, experienced in design and development, product management, implementation and support. I started a thread over on r/forza, and I've already garnered some great feedback. My plan is to log every issue reported, then try to gain some consensus among the community as to the priority of each.

Any feedback will be greatly appreciated.


Hope you have everyone's personal wishlist written down
I know this wasnt what you intended with your initial post but it's the way it always becomes
Good intentions but people take advantage of that
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#42 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 6:24:43 PM(UTC)
@NightDriver7800 et al

I feel that having cars that went through significant generational/platform changes works fine (I.E. R31, R32, R33 and R34 Skylines) as each iteration has specific "quirks" and a fan following. I do agree that having 2 of the same RTR Drift Mustangs is pointless and can get worse when you start to add in Forza Edition and pre-order cars. Pleasing everyone is impossible. Older gamers like myself prefer to see cars that I currently own or have owned in the past, or were bucket list cars as we grew up, and that has a different meaning for each individual person. I'm sure all of us could come up with a "must have" list, up to 500 cars each and still have less than half overlap with another.

I will never say this or that car should have never been in the game (which I have seen on this board). More, no matter how much someone hates it, is still better than not at all. We haven't even gotten into competitive vs usable vs outright useless when it comes to certain cars in game. I love the Opel Kadett, but it will never get used online due to the restrictions we have for lobbies and how sketchy it is in anything above B class. In the future (especially in Horizon) I would like to see car packs that are aligned with the style of play. Since the police type cars are quite popular, make a police pack that includes cop cars from all different eras (would really like to see late 60s to late 70s Plymouth Furys and Dodge Monacos) and include proper light bars from each eras as well. No more of those bubble gum bulbs on the Crown Vic.......

The E30 M3 that you mention, I will say that the first E30 M3 was 1986 and was only in production until the E36 M3 came out in 92. The iteration we have technically is the Sport Evo, which was only in production in 89-91 (The one in game is listed at a 91). The game unfortunately is a bit literal when it comes to class/category/production year.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#43 Posted : Friday, July 19, 2019 10:01:06 PM(UTC)
Not sure if you still have a chance to talk with the devs, but here's what I would say if I could speak to them:

Fundamentally what I want out of Forza (or any game really) is a game that respects me, the player, especially with regards to my time.

Unfortunately Gran Turismo established grinding credits as a racing game staple that far too many racing games have blindly copied without stopping to really think if there was a better way to do things. This is a great way to hide a lack of content, but isn't particularly engaging gameplay. Especially since it teaches players to spam the same easy races over and over to get credits to unlock cars without actually bothering to try to get better.

Starting with FH3 we got awful time gating mechanics and wheelspin exclusive cars, which were doubled down on in FH4. These are outright disrespectful of players, punishing them for not doing their in-game chores every week to "earn" the exclusive cars. Worst of all is the forced online, where I can't pause, and if I go AFK for 20 seconds I'm booted out completely and have to completely restart, wasting 30+ minutes of my time. At least we don't have much in the way of microtransactions (which are another was to disrespect players by manufacturing a problem in the game that can be solved with real money).

I realize that you don't want players to blast through all the game content within days after launch and want to keep players "engaged", but taking a step back, is that really the best metric of a good game, or healthy for the game industry and players? Time is valuable and limited, I do not like to see mine wasted on shoddy game design specifically designed to waste my time for the benefit of the developers via microtransactions, advertising or metrics.

Some games I'm perfectly happy to play through in a week or two (or even just a few hours) and move on. Some games are good enough that I'll stay longer (or even replay from the beginning), but I do not like games that attempt to overstay their welcome with things like the time gates coercing me to keep logging in and playing longer than I really want to, or excessive grinding that has me doing hours and hours of in-game busywork to progress.

I work full time and don't really have time for games that demand hundreds of hours of my free time. I have no problem if a game provides the ability to keep playing longer if I'm really enjoying myself, but I really prefer games with a solid core experience that maximizes their gameplay time instead of padding it out to hide a lack of content or to follow the misguided notion that bigger and more time demanding = better.

Translated to Forza, what I want to see going forwards is a rethinking of the core gameplay. Right now, for better or worse, the core gameplay loop in Forza Horizon (and Motorsport and GT and many other racing games) revolves around collecting all the cars. This isn't great for players who just want to enjoy cars and don't want to have to grind or participate in weekly chores just to enjoy them.

A better solution IMHO is to make unlocking all the cars part of the core gameplay experience (~40h at most for an average player). Rather than having super exclusive cars as a carrot to coerce players into continuing to play (and thereby denying access to that content to the majority of players), use rivals (for solo players) and online rankings (and content creation) for the endgame like Forza used to do (and FH4 is just starting to do again after too many months). Players who just enjoy looking at and tinkering with the cars can acquire all of them within a reasonable amount of time (especially if there were a game mode with all content unlocked similar to free play in motorsport), and the hardcore players still have effectively endless content to pursue if they so choose.

If you want to entice players to come back occasionally, do something like what FM7 does now with the Forzathons (with non-exclusive rewards) and the spotlight cars. Interesting new content to do each week, but if you don't want to participate or are occupied with RL, you're not punished for not playing.

Also, make sure that whatever content you put into game actually relates to the game and contributes to the overall experience, and isn't solely there to increase profits due to some backroom deal. The LEGO expansion has left a bad taste in my mouth, and GT Sport in a similar vein has tasteless advertising in the menus not even related to cars.

Anyways, just my thoughts on fundamentally where I would like to see Forza go in the future.

Edited by user Friday, July 19, 2019 10:08:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

2007 Toyota Blade Master G
2007 Toyota Blade Master G

Post Checklist: Spelling/Grammar - Constructive - Respectful
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#44 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 3:37:32 AM(UTC)
find it interesting would pick someone with so few posts here the home of the hardcore fans
FORZA TIER 8 10530 Driving since August 2017
looking for mature ongoing players with mic to join team #AOS
facebook.com/vanninman twitter.com/vanninman1 twitch.tv/vanninman

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:10:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ClawedScroll554 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Squryl Go to Quoted Post

Context, they say, is everything. Or in this case, it's 'five.' Five of the Mustangs are from 2018 alone, and shockingly/not shockingly (go ahead and feign shock) they are largely all the same car, or in the words of another, 'only a minute's adjustment' from each other. That alone qualifies as 'too many Mustangs.' In fact, just going by your own minute/adjustment metric, nearly all of BMW and it's myriad of M-something's would be wiped out (which is fine by me, but I digress...). I took a quick peek at Porsche's 911's and counted a very scientific tally of 'a bunch' from 2012 to present.

But to what end is all this fuzzy math, you ask? Well, I will bet you dollars to donuts that most players would be totally a-ok if we saw a reduction of differant 2018 Ford Mustang variants and in their stead received more models from underrepresented brands just like you already suggested in unwitting support of the point GALNET was trying to make.

It's funny this even arose here to begin with as I was about to post a tongue-in-cheek/not really/actually kind of serious Horizon 4 Car Wish-U-Wouldn't List for ManteoMax, and literally my first two items were No More Mustangs and BMW's.

Anyway, carry on, poppets...

I was pretty fine with how it used to be in, like we have certain definite models from certain era, like '87 Pontiac Firebird Trans Am GTA from '80s era 3rd. generation Firebirds. '95 Chevrolet Corvette ZR-1 is pinnacle C4 generation, and so on. While it's not perfect solution, for example '92 Ferrari 512 TR, while having similar looks, it's actually redesigned version of '80s Testarossa, famous supercar from Miami Vice and featured in arcade game Outrun and PC game Test Drive game in the 80's. While '80s Testarossa is cultural icon, I don't really have a problem that not being in the game, as we have sort of definitive version. And that Fiat might not be easily persuaded to licence '80's Testarossa.

I would gladly trade few of those new Mustangs with minimal differences to '50's era Ford Thunderbird, which might not be competitive against 'Vette, but there's Plymouth Fury, Hudson Hornet and Chevy Bell Air, and Ford Pickup Truck from the era. So sometimes adding a new car might add something to how races blueprinted for that era of cars would look and feel.

We have many Nissan Skyline's in game. Many because they are classics, but do we really need that many? '87 Nissan Skyline GTS-R (R31) is great to have in game. It's definite model of beginning of design phase in Nissan and in game it also gives option to race it against other '80's legends, while remaining in C-class (stock).

Skyline GT-R V-Spec (1993) and Skyline GT-R V-Spec (1997) is a bit different matter. In stock they have 13 points difference in PI. This might be a bigger car culture thing related to Japan, but I would probably be fine with just '97 for '90's era and so on.

What I hope could be taken to developers from this, is that I hope that mile long car request lists would go mostly ignored. I have spent quite a lot of time with Horizon 4, have over 1000 races, tens of millions of credits, have almost every car, most via Wheelspins and rewards, and I haven't yet tried most of cars I have. I find it difficult to believe that all people wishing 20-40 more cars to Horizon 4, would actually even try them all in game. Horizon IMO, doesn't need every possible car ever built, but right cars and right amount from different decades.


Having the latest and best poses a problem sometimes. The 512 TR and E30 M3 are icons of the 80s but can't be used in an 80s championship because the actual MY in the game for those cars is from the 90s. Besides... The 512 TR isn't even the final version of the Testarossa, lol. That honor goes to the 512 M, which people tend to hate on because it lacks the pop-up headlights and the square taillights of the earlier models.

You are right about 512 M and it's indeed hated because it doesn't look enough like older icon. But I'm still comfortable with decision PG made with their selection, I think it's the best compromise there is.

Originally Posted by: NeubaumTurk HK Go to Quoted Post
@NightDriver7800 et al

I feel that having cars that went through significant generational/platform changes works fine (I.E. R31, R32, R33 and R34 Skylines) as each iteration has specific "quirks" and a fan following. I do agree that having 2 of the same RTR Drift Mustangs is pointless and can get worse when you start to add in Forza Edition and pre-order cars. Pleasing everyone is impossible. Older gamers like myself prefer to see cars that I currently own or have owned in the past, or were bucket list cars as we grew up, and that has a different meaning for each individual person. I'm sure all of us could come up with a "must have" list, up to 500 cars each and still have less than half overlap with another.

I will never say this or that car should have never been in the game (which I have seen on this board). More, no matter how much someone hates it, is still better than not at all. We haven't even gotten into competitive vs usable vs outright useless when it comes to certain cars in game. I love the Opel Kadett, but it will never get used online due to the restrictions we have for lobbies and how sketchy it is in anything above B class. In the future (especially in Horizon) I would like to see car packs that are aligned with the style of play. Since the police type cars are quite popular, make a police pack that includes cop cars from all different eras (would really like to see late 60s to late 70s Plymouth Furys and Dodge Monacos) and include proper light bars from each eras as well. No more of those bubble gum bulbs on the Crown Vic.......

The E30 M3 that you mention, I will say that the first E30 M3 was 1986 and was only in production until the E36 M3 came out in 92. The iteration we have technically is the Sport Evo, which was only in production in 89-91 (The one in game is listed at a 91). The game unfortunately is a bit literal when it comes to class/category/production year.

While it takes a bit of extra effort, you can create custom lineup (with more or less success) via Blueprints. For example I have upgraded '82 911 3.3 Turbo for this sort of races to compete against '92 Ferrari 512 TR and whatever there is and that's been 80's esque enough for me. For '70s theme '69 Ferrari Dino 246 GT covers the base up to '74 (production end) and '84 Ferrari 288 GTO taking the place also of Ferrari 308 (1975 - 1985) creates a bit iffy situation, but well, you can take '82 Porsche 911 (930) in this custom '70's esque lineup too, as production of 930 series started in '75 and with 3.3 engine in '78.

I prefer older cars in single player but there is this whole trend which is actually driving some '80s cars, I mean real ones, upwards at least in where I live. There are new icons like like second generation Mazda RX-7's (in game '90 RX-7 Savanna, which I think might actually be GTU produced in '89-'90), '94 Nissan Fairlady Z we have in game is Z32 generation introduced in '89, Nissan 240SX SE in game is pinnacle of first generation Silvia's introduced in '89 and '92 Club K is from generation introduced in '88 and yeah, '80s Nissan Skyline is one of those new icons too. Mitsubishi have models with similar following and if you followed car request thread there were quite few requests older Toyota Supra models. I don't recall the third generation Supra's was initially well received back in the day, but lineup has following for aesthetics value or something even today and so on, and those are just Nippon cars.

So those cars aren't in the game just because of Generation X nostalgia, but there are other very good reasons too. Same goes for car selection for decades before. Now the question is if Playground Games are aware of this anymore? Or if they are in Horizon 4 just because they were in earlier games in series and so easily ported to H4? I mean game studio is in the just another workplace, people come, people go.

We have got quite similar cars like couple of Mustangs and then it looks like every quite recent BMW model that company decided to slap with M sticker. I also think car makers don't mind the publicity, but not every model is going to be a classic in the future. They are going to be forgotten like say certain Mazda 323 Sports Saloons, which were actually quite good cars for performance, comfort and price. Despite that 323's aren't in the game and frankly Horizon 4 doesn't need them.

What would help the situation IMO would be if custom line ups for races could be saved for future use on other routes, existing or custom. Then using Festival angle, allow players easily create custom championships and bring back custom Bucket lists and allow players to add them into mix, then allow sharing these challenges to other players. In practice this would allow layers create their own Forza festival events with their own theme, be that Classic Racers from the '50s and '60s or mixed decade event with practically '80s cars or with recent A class RWD vehicles, just for example.

There is quite a lot they could do. Of course interface needs to support synergy and all that.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#46 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:36:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: vanninman Go to Quoted Post
find it interesting would pick someone with so few posts here the home of the hardcore fans


This was posted to Forza Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/forza/comments/cfelpu/we_need_something_like_a_forza_motorsport/
Quote:
We Need Something Like a Forza Motorsport Independent Action Group
self.forza
submitted by Spockydog
Quick update on the terms of my NDA.

Turn10 have told me I am forbidden from communicating anything at all about yesterday's meetings with the team in Leamington Spa.
The NDA I signed states that "any contents, verbal, text, visual or otherwise cannot be shared to the broader community in any capacity."
This is disappointing, as well as somewhat shortsighted. Some of the stuff I heard yesterday would definitely help clarify some popular issues and misconceptions.
All I can say, today, is that, based on the feedback I have received so far (both here and the official forum), there is something of a disconnect between the developers and users, in terms of what is and what isn't an issue.

Together, I believe we can bridge this gap, perhaps in the form of an official user group. In order to join, drivers must sign up to be legally bound to a certain level of confidentiality - basically whatever it takes for PG to get involved and trust us enough to talk to each other openly.
Trust me, I used to do this for a living. This kind of stuff works.

For what it’s worth, I am a former IT project manager, who, after leaving school at sixteen with zero qualifications and becoming a messenger for a small business travel agency, worked his way up to a prominent role within the Business Technology Division of a leading global travel management company. During my time there I was technology lead on dozens of multinational projects, implementing complex suites of proprietary software applications for blue chip clients.

By the time I was forced to give up work in order to care for my disabled brother, my job title was EMEA Special Projects Manager. I was basically that bloke out of Tarantino’s Pulp Fiction, the £600 per diem Wolf my boss’s boss asked for when John Travolta had accidentally blown some poor kid’s brains all over their multi-million-pound project plan.
I tell you all this not to brag, but to give you an idea of my credentials, whilst assuring you that I thoroughly understand the challenges, both technical and commercial, that come with any major software implementation.

I promise that every issue reported to me that is not basically just, 'WAAAAH!' is going onto the list. Which will then be prioritised, by us, the community, before PG or T10 get anywhere near it.
Finally, cards on the table. My brother is doing much better these days and I'd love to be able to return to work one day. I sense an opportunity here, and if things go how I hope they do, the creation of the Forza Motorsport Drivers' Independent Action Group might well become the first project of the consultancy I've been dreaming of setting up for years. Lazydog Consulting.

Pro bono, of course.

If anyone thinks this is a good idea, and something they might be interested in getting involved with, please let me know.


I have couple of questions.

1. Why not check the extent of NDA before signing them?
2. Horizon series offers open world driving experience had been is hard to rival during last few years, but why we should work for them via proxy or not? There is very interesting project going on by certain other studio regarding this particular niche. Why not go to them instead? Maybe some competition would do the trick without needing to recruit players to volunteer to list up things which can be read from these forums and Reddit already.

Edited by user Saturday, July 20, 2019 4:42:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Added link to source

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#47 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 5:10:52 AM(UTC)
Quote:
there is something of a disconnect between the developers and users, in terms of what is and what isn't an issue.

Together, I believe we can bridge this gap, perhaps in the form of an official user group. In order to join, drivers must sign up to be legally bound to a certain level of confidentiality - basically whatever it takes for PG to get involved and trust us enough to talk to each other openly.
Trust me, I used to do this for a living. This kind of stuff works.

Nope.

The solution to the disconnect between developers and players is not the establishment of an NDA-signing secret priestly caste of the chosen few that cannot divulge its findings to the rest of the players, if anything all it accomplishes is widen the gap between player A and player B, creating a class warfare between the élite in the in-group and the poor reprobate outcasts of the out-group, who live inside cages and get mocked by those on the other side of the bars.

A copy of Forza Horizon 4 and a gamertag is all an "official user", any "official user", should ever need. How could any person possibly have them and somehow not be an official user?

When the devs were busy celebrating their 10 million users, how many of those 10 million were not "official users", again?

And how many of those are predestined to become "official users", ascend to NDA heaven, and speak for millions of people, accountable only to a non-disclosure agreement and not to said players?

What I see before me is a profoundly, consummately miserable state of affairs.

And for the record we already have a bunch of NDA-signers whose tongues were artfully tied by lawyers into dozens of knots, it's PG themselves, how many more do we need?

Edited by user Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:15:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#48 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 6:04:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
there is something of a disconnect between the developers and users, in terms of what is and what isn't an issue.

Together, I believe we can bridge this gap, perhaps in the form of an official user group. In order to join, drivers must sign up to be legally bound to a certain level of confidentiality - basically whatever it takes for PG to get involved and trust us enough to talk to each other openly.
Trust me, I used to do this for a living. This kind of stuff works.

Nope.

The solution to the disconnect between developers and players is not the establishment of an NDA-signing secret priestly caste of the chosen few that cannot divulge its findings to the rest of the players, if anything all it accomplishes is widen the gap between player A and player B, creating a class warfare between the élite in the in-group and the poor reprobate outcasts of the out-group, who live inside cages and get mocked by those on the other side of the bars.

A copy of Forza Horizon 4 and a gamertag this is all an "official user", any "official user", should ever need. How could any person possibly have them and somehow not be an official user?

When the devs were busy celebrating their 10 million users, how many of those 10 million were not "official users", again?

And how many of those are predestined to become "official users", ascend to NDA heaven, and speak for millions of people, accountable only to a non-disclosure agreement and not to said players?

What I see before me is a profoundly, consummately miserable state of affairs.

And for the record we already have a bunch of NDA-signers whose tongues were artfully tied by lawyers into dozens of knots, it's PG themselves, how many more do we need?

Very well said. I made my previous post in this topic very brief for a reason that I just don't see how this would resolve anything but add another layer of meddling.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 7:56:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
The NDA that I signed states that any contents, verbal, text, visual or otherwise cannot be shared to the broader community in any capacity.

This is disappointing as well as being shortsighted, as some of the stuff I heard yesterday would have definitely helped clarify some popular issues and misconceptions.

This is pretty normal. Companies pay people a lot of money to be their public voice, and the message from the company needs to be their message alone. If you were employed in that role you wouldn't want random people undermining your message.

You disagree with the message these people are choosing to convey, but the solution to that is for the company to employ people who will make a better choice of message, not to open up the conveying of that message to random people.

Edited by user Saturday, July 20, 2019 7:58:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#50 Posted : Saturday, July 20, 2019 10:24:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: audiodrifter Go to Quoted Post
The NDA that I signed states that any contents, verbal, text, visual or otherwise cannot be shared to the broader community in any capacity.

This is disappointing as well as being shortsighted, as some of the stuff I heard yesterday would have definitely helped clarify some popular issues and misconceptions.

This is pretty normal. Companies pay people a lot of money to be their public voice, and the message from the company needs to be their message alone. If you were employed in that role you wouldn't want random people undermining your message.

That's not universal. There are countries where parties such as businesses cannot force NDA (or similar agreement) with private citizens based on private citizens constitutional rights.

Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

You disagree with the message these people are choosing to convey, but the solution to that is for the company to employ people who will make a better choice of message, not to open up the conveying of that message to random people.

We are all random people here and if PG cannot plan ahead contents of this sort of visits (which whole point is sorta questionable if everything is under NDA) that's on them. I also think hired staff for communicating with customers and fans are doing their jobs within possibilities they have. If you have information indicating that this isn't the case, please do share it here and instead of conveying that hired community management isn't performing in their job within parameters set by PG.

Edited by user Saturday, July 20, 2019 10:25:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

4 Pages1234PrevNext

Notification

Icon
Error