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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#76 Posted : Tuesday, August 6, 2019 7:06:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GeneralGarric69 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
And when it comes to playing the game on a rather stable console platform vs playing it on possibly the single worst OS I have experienced in my 35+ years of IT/network experience (Yes, I am speaking of Windows 10), I will take the console every day.

Both of my consoles (Xbox one and xbox one x) have been relatively free of OS issues, while the Win 10 machines I use at home as well as those I support in the workplace are nothing short of a nightmare and disaster.

As far as the improved graphics you speak of on a PC, what little improvement I see is not worth the hassle of the completely unstable PC OS.


Can't blame you for preferring to use a console if your experience with Windows 10 has been that bad, but those level of issues are not common at all.
Thank you for that. I am happy for you that your experience has been positive. Just be glad that you don't have to support this OS in a huge workplace where, as an example, a forced update can wipe out user files. Or you come in one day to find out that the overnight update has wiped out your admin tools yet again... Or that Microsoft has changed their mind again about how updates will be mandated and delivered, often affecting group policies that need to be rewritten or re-setup in a working environment. Not fun, I can assure you. Both XP and 7 were rock solid and a dream to use, support and administer..... but this is OT...... lol

Edited by user Tuesday, August 6, 2019 7:19:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#77 Posted : Tuesday, August 6, 2019 8:14:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GeneralGarric69 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
And when it comes to playing the game on a rather stable console platform vs playing it on possibly the single worst OS I have experienced in my 35+ years of IT/network experience (Yes, I am speaking of Windows 10), I will take the console every day.

Both of my consoles (Xbox one and xbox one x) have been relatively free of OS issues, while the Win 10 machines I use at home as well as those I support in the workplace are nothing short of a nightmare and disaster.

As far as the improved graphics you speak of on a PC, what little improvement I see is not worth the hassle of the completely unstable PC OS.


Can't blame you for preferring to use a console if your experience with Windows 10 has been that bad, but those level of issues are not common at all.
Thank you for that. I am happy for you that your experience has been positive. Just be glad that you don't have to support this OS in a huge workplace where, as an example, a forced update can wipe out user files. Or you come in one day to find out that the overnight update has wiped out your admin tools yet again... Or that Microsoft has changed their mind again about how updates will be mandated and delivered, often affecting group policies that need to be rewritten or re-setup in a working environment. Not fun, I can assure you. Both XP and 7 were rock solid and a dream to use, support and administer..... but this is OT...... lol


So basically like hosting a dedicated server for a game where an update makes everything moot unless it's updated or something just become worthless with a change in the code. Ew, been there done that, not worth.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#78 Posted : Tuesday, August 6, 2019 8:59:33 AM(UTC)
I want only one thing from Turn 10, regarding Forza 7. Roll FRR out to more than just the Beta Hopper.
Time to hit the road.

Take care!
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#79 Posted : Monday, August 12, 2019 4:16:31 AM(UTC)
So, that is it?
No expansions, no one new track, no new achievements... well, no regard to who bought and likes the FM series?
After 2 long years...
Poor me and who likes the series


Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#80 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:57:22 AM(UTC)
Yes that's it.

My opinion is probably unpopular and understandably so but I think cutting development for Forza Motorsport 7 is the correct decision. All efforts now need to be shifted towards Forza Motorsport 8. If that means saving content for the next iteration, so be it.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#81 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 1:37:08 AM(UTC)
and all the given promises - ai overhaul and frr for singleplayer for example - are broken, all we got as final update (beside the 8xx car) after 2 years of beging is the gap in time instead of distance (what is already standard in 100% of all other racing games). I think FM8 will have a bombastic Graphic since its a launch Titel for the new x-Box but i am also sure that this will come at the cost of gamplay. I am still here and play FM7 but now the waiting from month to month for some improvements has an end. Honestly - i cant imagine to spend another 100 Euro to a studio who has - in my opinion - no clue of racing.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#82 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 2:18:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Loadme Tacos Go to Quoted Post
So, that is it?
No expansions, no one new track, no new achievements... well, no regard to who bought and likes the FM series?
After 2 long years...
Poor me and who likes the series




Are you new to Forza or what exactly did you expect? Almost all video games with the likely exception of MMOs come to an end of life at some point. FM7 was supported longer and had more fixes and content updates than any Forza game ever released. If you've been around the Forza series before you had to know what to expect and that support would end at some point as development moves to the next game. That's how it's always been done.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#83 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 4:26:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cugan67 Go to Quoted Post
and all the given promises - ai overhaul and frr for singleplayer for example - are broken, all we got as final update (beside the 8xx car) after 2 years of beging is the gap in time instead of distance (what is already standard in 100% of all other racing games). I think FM8 will have a bombastic Graphic since its a launch Titel for the new x-Box but i am also sure that this will come at the cost of gamplay. I am still here and play FM7 but now the waiting from month to month for some improvements has an end. Honestly - i cant imagine to spend another 100 Euro to a studio who has - in my opinion - no clue of racing.

Turn 10 never said an AI overhaul was coming specifically to Forza Motorsport 7. In typical Turn 10 fashion, they said they were looking into it. That isn't a promise, though correct me if you find a quote that proves me wrong but that's what I remember.

Whether the €100 price tag every year for the 'Ultimate Edition', is worth it or not is completely subjective. For me, it would probably still be worth it due to the amount of hours I put into the game, however, I have stopped pre-ordering and I'm even buying the Horizon franchise on sale due to a severe lack of improvements from one iteration to the next.

Though Forza Motorsport 7 launched terribly, the constant post game support and long life cycle made it worth my money. No Forza game has received 20 months of development time. They usually get 11 or 12 months at maximum. If Forza Motorsport 7 launched in the state is was today, it would objectively be the best Forza game I believe. Unfortunately, it did not, however the change in management, new developers and overall re-structure of how Turn 10 operates has made me hopeful for Forza Motorsport 8 and if the post launch development is an indicator of the direction they are going, the signs look good.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#84 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:40:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Wildcat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Loadme Tacos Go to Quoted Post
So, that is it?
No expansions, no one new track, no new achievements... well, no regard to who bought and likes the FM series?
After 2 long years...
Poor me and who likes the series




Are you new to Forza or what exactly did you expect? Almost all video games with the likely exception of MMOs come to an end of life at some point. FM7 was supported longer and had more fixes and content updates than any Forza game ever released. If you've been around the Forza series before you had to know what to expect and that support would end at some point as development moves to the next game. That's how it's always been done.


What did I expect? like I said: expansion...
I've been playing this series since FM5 and FH1, and they all had expansions and even spin-offs, not just adding cars and repetitive events, and all before their two-year cycle came to an end.
That's what I'm talking about

Edited by user Tuesday, August 13, 2019 12:43:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#85 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 8:37:25 PM(UTC)
Every time Forza is a “launch title” for a new xbox console it is graphics heavy and content light. This is nothing new. Forza 1 was awesome. Forza 2 was not (launch title for xbox360, given away for free with console purchase). Forza 3 and 4 were both stronger, with Forza 4 arguably being the best.

And then came Forza 5 (launch title for Xbox one, given away with console bundles). Fewer cars, tracks, no weather, no night racing, micro transactions, “but look at how shiny it is!”

Forza 6 almost recaptured Forza 4’s excellent performance. Short of player created public lobbies it was a stellar all rounder and had night and weather effects that were better than Forza 7 (3D puddles that have a real effect on the cars handling? Haven’t seen those in Forza 7.)

Forza 7 took the fork off the counter and shoved it square back into the electrical socket. Rushed delivery to meet a deadline so it can be a launch title for the Xbox one x. Setting aside the fact that the one x was a flop too, seeing as they are already developing its replacement Forza 7 was shot down before it ever left the ground.

Do not expect Forza 8 to be better. But do expect Forza 8 to require you to invest in a new console just to play it. I can’t speak for anyone but myself here but Forza 8 will not be an improvement on 7 IMO. I can’t justify the price anymore. I used to preorder the limited edition to get the steel book case, I would literally log in to this website every Tuesday to see what vehicles were coming. But I don’t do that anymore. Turn10 have made their bed, now they must sleep in it. It’s a real shame too because these games used to bring so much joy and stress free hours of play into my life.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#86 Posted : Tuesday, August 13, 2019 9:25:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Loadme Tacos Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Wildcat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Loadme Tacos Go to Quoted Post
So, that is it?
No expansions, no one new track, no new achievements... well, no regard to who bought and likes the FM series?
After 2 long years...
Poor me and who likes the series




Are you new to Forza or what exactly did you expect? Almost all video games with the likely exception of MMOs come to an end of life at some point. FM7 was supported longer and had more fixes and content updates than any Forza game ever released. If you've been around the Forza series before you had to know what to expect and that support would end at some point as development moves to the next game. That's how it's always been done.


What did I expect? like I said: expansion...
I've been playing this series since FM5 and FH1, and they all had expansions and even spin-offs, not just adding cars and repetitive events, and all before their two-year cycle came to an end.
That's what I'm talking about

Where di you see Forza Motorsport 5 expansion?
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#87 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 5:10:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DylanDrog Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Loadme Tacos Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Wildcat Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Loadme Tacos Go to Quoted Post
So, that is it?
No expansions, no one new track, no new achievements... well, no regard to who bought and likes the FM series?
After 2 long years...
Poor me and who likes the series




Are you new to Forza or what exactly did you expect? Almost all video games with the likely exception of MMOs come to an end of life at some point. FM7 was supported longer and had more fixes and content updates than any Forza game ever released. If you've been around the Forza series before you had to know what to expect and that support would end at some point as development moves to the next game. That's how it's always been done.


What did I expect? like I said: expansion...
I've been playing this series since FM5 and FH1, and they all had expansions and even spin-offs, not just adding cars and repetitive events, and all before their two-year cycle came to an end.
That's what I'm talking about

Where di you see Forza Motorsport 5 expansion?


well, 2 or 3 new tracks were added after the release
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#88 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 6:16:19 AM(UTC)
A couple of points from above: FM5 was pretty much released "unfinished", and if you read between the lines they pretty much said as much long before it came out. One of the big reasons I didn't buy it.

I would hardly say the One X is a flop. I love mine! Keep in mind many people still don't have a 4K TV, so there's no reason for them to upgrade the box. Same reason I have no real interest in the next Xbox. I'm not rushing out to get an 8K television. 4K content is still somewhat sparse and doesn't look like it will be mainstream anytime soon. I imagine 8K content will be even less, and definitely not worth the money for a new TV. Plus, I read recently that the human eye can't even see the difference between 4K and 8K anyway.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#89 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:14:20 AM(UTC)
How on earth was the Xbox One X a flop? It's the best console to play games on specification wise. The PS4 Pro is nowhere near as powerful.
Rank: Driver's License
 2 users liked this post.
#90 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 2:07:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Wilko Jones Go to Quoted Post
I want only one thing from Turn 10, regarding Forza 7. Roll FRR out to more than just the Beta Hopper.


Or at least to Leagues, which makes more sense if the idea is to bring close competitive racing, with the rankings and the regulations together. At the moment, the Leagues dont serve too much of a thing.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#91 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 7:48:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
How on earth was the Xbox One X a flop? It's the best console to play games on specification wise. The PS4 Pro is nowhere near as powerful.


The Xbox one x is a flop IMO because it exists at all. It signifies that the Xbox one was not powerful enough at release but that the Xbox one x was not good enough to be a new console. Also, it was delivered too soon in the product life cycle to require players to purchase another $500 console so soon after they bought the Xbox one.

This meant that developers have to split their teams to develop Xbox one X “enhanced” games because the regular consoles can’t play them smoothly but they still have to play some form of the game.

As a product the Xbox one x is fine. I own one (only because my original Xbox got fried during a thunderstorm). But it makes me question why the Xbox wasn’t that capable from the jump. The original Xbox released with year old processors if you ask anyone who plays on a PC they will tell you it was behind the curve when it came out.

Do you see my point? If the one x had not been needed, Forza 7 would have been a continuation of Forza 6, and an overall improvement of a solid platform. Instead, the release of the one x forced turn10 to create another launch title which was heavily focused on graphics and not on content.

Arguments can be made that it had the most content of any Forza game at launch but out of everything that it offered, almost none of it was new. Do you think if Turn10 wasn’t focused on showcasing the one x’s capabilities that they would have released the same game?

We as consumers need to open our eyes and realize that just because something is new does not mean it’s better. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And when change is necessary, make it meaningful.

Edited by user Wednesday, August 14, 2019 7:49:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#92 Posted : Wednesday, August 14, 2019 10:23:32 PM(UTC)
LOL
Rank: Driver's License
#93 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:42:43 AM(UTC)
Well I’m saddened to hear that there will be no more updates for this game however I do see where they are coming from on this. I pre ordered the ultimate version and feel that I have well and truly had my money’s worth, two years of fun for the price of eight £10 pizzas ...
What more could anyone want ... Where else can you get two years of fun for such a small amount of money. So thank you T10 for an awesome game and all the hard work you have put into it and I will be looking forward to the next one 🙂👌
Rank: Racing Legend
 1 user liked this post.
#94 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:04:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: markvii1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
How on earth was the Xbox One X a flop? It's the best console to play games on specification wise. The PS4 Pro is nowhere near as powerful.


The Xbox one x is a flop IMO because it exists at all. It signifies that the Xbox one was not powerful enough at release but that the Xbox one x was not good enough to be a new console. Also, it was delivered too soon in the product life cycle to require players to purchase another $500 console so soon after they bought the Xbox one.

This meant that developers have to split their teams to develop Xbox one X “enhanced” games because the regular consoles can’t play them smoothly but they still have to play some form of the game.

As a product the Xbox one x is fine. I own one (only because my original Xbox got fried during a thunderstorm). But it makes me question why the Xbox wasn’t that capable from the jump. The original Xbox released with year old processors if you ask anyone who plays on a PC they will tell you it was behind the curve when it came out.

Do you see my point? If the one x had not been needed, Forza 7 would have been a continuation of Forza 6, and an overall improvement of a solid platform. Instead, the release of the one x forced turn10 to create another launch title which was heavily focused on graphics and not on content.

Arguments can be made that it had the most content of any Forza game at launch but out of everything that it offered, almost none of it was new. Do you think if Turn10 wasn’t focused on showcasing the one x’s capabilities that they would have released the same game?

We as consumers need to open our eyes and realize that just because something is new does not mean it’s better. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And when change is necessary, make it meaningful.


Lol

Not sure if serious
Launch title of what..it wasnt next gen..just an upgrade
Didnt have to create a new launch title at all
Xbone x is just a more powerful xbone..
Fm7 still runs fine on the original xbone
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#95 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:59:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: markvii1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
How on earth was the Xbox One X a flop? It's the best console to play games on specification wise. The PS4 Pro is nowhere near as powerful.


The Xbox one x is a flop IMO because it exists at all. It signifies that the Xbox one was not powerful enough at release but that the Xbox one x was not good enough to be a new console. Also, it was delivered too soon in the product life cycle to require players to purchase another $500 console so soon after they bought the Xbox one.

This meant that developers have to split their teams to develop Xbox one X “enhanced” games because the regular consoles can’t play them smoothly but they still have to play some form of the game.

As a product the Xbox one x is fine. I own one (only because my original Xbox got fried during a thunderstorm). But it makes me question why the Xbox wasn’t that capable from the jump. The original Xbox released with year old processors if you ask anyone who plays on a PC they will tell you it was behind the curve when it came out.

Do you see my point? If the one x had not been needed, Forza 7 would have been a continuation of Forza 6, and an overall improvement of a solid platform. Instead, the release of the one x forced turn10 to create another launch title which was heavily focused on graphics and not on content.

Arguments can be made that it had the most content of any Forza game at launch but out of everything that it offered, almost none of it was new. Do you think if Turn10 wasn’t focused on showcasing the one x’s capabilities that they would have released the same game?

We as consumers need to open our eyes and realize that just because something is new does not mean it’s better. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And when change is necessary, make it meaningful.


Graphics have been their top priority for quite some time, just like every other developer, graphics sell the game. Forzas issues imo have more to do with design direction or lack there of. As you said most content was not really new, it is largely a continuation of 6 but it just so happens the tweaks they made like homolagation and driver suits wasnt exactly embraced by the community.

They seem to suffer from a lack of focus of what the game actually should be and in turn that causes innovation to stagnate. I think they need to bite the bullet and choose a direction whether its more arcade or more sim so features can be fleshed out properly.

Even though im not a fan of horizon anymore, they doubled down on the arcade approach and its obviously paying off for their target audience. While motorsport is still trying to appease both types with little success imo. It seems as though they may finally be taking the word motorsport a little more seriously now and as such maybe 8 will be better for it.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#96 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:23:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: markvii1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
How on earth was the Xbox One X a flop? It's the best console to play games on specification wise. The PS4 Pro is nowhere near as powerful.


The Xbox one x is a flop IMO because it exists at all. It signifies that the Xbox one was not powerful enough at release but that the Xbox one x was not good enough to be a new console. Also, it was delivered too soon in the product life cycle to require players to purchase another $500 console so soon after they bought the Xbox one.

This meant that developers have to split their teams to develop Xbox one X “enhanced” games because the regular consoles can’t play them smoothly but they still have to play some form of the game.

As a product the Xbox one x is fine. I own one (only because my original Xbox got fried during a thunderstorm). But it makes me question why the Xbox wasn’t that capable from the jump. The original Xbox released with year old processors if you ask anyone who plays on a PC they will tell you it was behind the curve when it came out.

Do you see my point? If the one x had not been needed, Forza 7 would have been a continuation of Forza 6, and an overall improvement of a solid platform. Instead, the release of the one x forced turn10 to create another launch title which was heavily focused on graphics and not on content.

Arguments can be made that it had the most content of any Forza game at launch but out of everything that it offered, almost none of it was new. Do you think if Turn10 wasn’t focused on showcasing the one x’s capabilities that they would have released the same game?

We as consumers need to open our eyes and realize that just because something is new does not mean it’s better. If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. And when change is necessary, make it meaningful.


Lol

Not sure if serious
Launch title of what..it wasnt next gen..just an upgrade
Didnt have to create a new launch title at all
Xbone x is just a more powerful xbone..
Fm7 still runs fine on the original xbone


Xbox one x enhanced games run well over 100 gigabytes. Half of that is “assets” that don’t get used on the one or the one S. Ignorance aside, my point was that Forza 7 was developed the same way Forza 2 and 5 were. To showcase new hardware on a new console and to be shiny without bringing much new content to the table. Everything I said above is true. I own an Xbox one X. It is a good console. But because Microsoft made it now we have games that don’t run well on the regular console without skimping on details and dev teams that now have to develop one game to run on two different sets of hardware. Do you really think that if Forza 7 was released only on the Xbox one without the extra pressure of showcasing the One X that it would have been the same game?

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#97 Posted : Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:33:32 AM(UTC)
Yes I do, we have a pc version with 4k assets too
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#98 Posted : Saturday, August 17, 2019 5:57:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post

FM7 is now an incredibly strong foundation for Forza Motorsport 8. If they nail the launch, happy days.


I've tried really hard to believe this, but when you look at FM7 and the overall history of this franchise, this perception doesn't add up. Obviously this is strictly my own opinion, but when you really look at the facts it doesn't take long to see a regression from FM5 - FM6 - and now FM7. Car sounds, graphics fidelity, handling characteristics, in game lighting, AI opponents, all appear at their best in FM5 and have progressively regressed since. Gameplay features like adding AI in private Multiplayer lobbies went from max of 15 in FM5, down to like 5 or 6 in FM6, and now Zero in FM7.

I just cannot make the connection how FM7 could ever be a better foundation to build on, than FM4 was laying the ground work for FM5. Then take into account what was lost from FM4 to FM5. One could make the same argument FM5 was a strong foundation to build on when the Xbox One launched roughly 6 years ago, if they were new to the franchise and hadn't played previous versions. That hypothetical player now having played all 3 available Motorsport games, would most likely scratch their heads and say what has improved.

Based upon reading older FM5 posts, its pretty clear that bugs from the 360 games carried right over into the X1 versions. So it was not built from scratch or the ground up. What we have now is just one giant piece of patched together game code and all the bugs wreaked havoc during the launch of FM7. Many still remain to this day in FM7. Even something that may seem trivial to some, but important to others like Drivatar Designs showing up in Free Play races do not work right up to this very day. Load up a private Multiplayer race in FM5 and fill it with 15 AI, and they actually work. This is the kind of things I am seeing that just boggle my mind.

I hope I am wrong, but honestly I don't see FM8, if it in fact comes to fruition, being any different than FM5 was on the debut of Xbox 1. A BIG, BIG PUSH for graphic fidelity, lighting, and maybe some adjustments to handling characteristics. Most likely trimmed car roster and some lost tracks, with some new arrivals. Basically status quo, because lets face reality, this game has strayed pretty far from what it once was. More or less a graphics showcase for the next and newest generation console. It's 2019 playing FM7, take a stroll into Pit Lane during a race and your greeted with giant black box covering the majority of the screen. That basically spells out where the priorities have fallen during the Xbox 1 development phase.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#99 Posted : Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:13:53 PM(UTC)
Few days ago I played a bit of FM6, I only play online in lobbies and from my point of view FM7 is a big improvement over FM6 from the force feedback to the collisions with other cars, if you add FRR FM8 will be a great game. The only thing I miss from FM6 is the soundtrack.

Edited by user Saturday, August 17, 2019 9:15:10 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#100 Posted : Sunday, August 18, 2019 1:52:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
How on earth was the Xbox One X a flop? It's the best console to play games on specification wise. The PS4 Pro is nowhere near as powerful.



Doesn`t matter much as long as Sony/PS is winning the console war. Just like GT is winning agaunst Forza.

Gt: fairlane305
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