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The other thing I think we're overlooking is that maybe not all adults are into kids toys, (Most that are tend to be collectors and just keep them on a shelf) but a lot of adults are parents. And a lot of parents enjoy sharing their interests with their kids.

Although I'm disliking the idea of mixing Forza with LEGO, I have to say that LEGO isn't just a toy and isn't just for kids (some sets have numbers 4-99 on the package). You can build pretty much anything mechanical from it. Engineers build all sorts of crazy things out of LEGO on their free time. There is even LEGO robotics, where you can implement your programming skills with your mechanical ones. No, it's not just for kids, although LEGO is probably the best toy a kid could have (in all ages). Nowadays you can even do the building and inventing digitally, render it in 3D and, if you like, buy the required pieces individually to make your creation real.

I didn't touch LEGO for 15+ years, but few years ago I started buying them for my nephew and I can't say I don't enjoy building stuff from it with him. Little secret: I have done some building on my own, when I don't have to babysit him and he is nowhere around. I even have programs on my PC so I can do it digitally.

I have been playing the LEGO Expansion a lot lately and I cant get my 2 LEGO cars LEGO Mini and LEGO F40 I only have the LEGO Senna

I didn't say it was the reason car shows are popular, obviously it isn't because many car shows don't have vendors selling Hot Wheels, at least not the ones I've been too recently. I simply offered a counterpoint to his argument.

Yes, some adults probably do by them for their kids, but I can guarantee that a lot buy them for their own collections.

Which means that Hot Wheels, despite the target market being children, which is debateable being that they create chase pieces aimed at collectors, interest adults too, which according to some people is incorrect.

The same can be said for Lego sets.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 25, 2019 12:00:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Look, you can dance around with the semantics of their usage all you like, that doesn't change the fact that the majority of adults do not "play" with lego or hot wheels.
Collecting die cast models of cars & keeping them in a cabinet or on a shelf is NOT the same as playing with them. I have plenty of models too, but they're not for play.
Nor is building a lego model & just staring at it afterwards considered playing with it.
Yes, I'm sure that there are adults who probably DO still play with children's toys, among other infant activities, but I'm not convinced that their numbers are worthy of catering a whole expansion to.
Plus, is making some quick cash upfront only to erode your user base so that it dwindles with each expansion really worth it? Because that is what will happen considering that this forum is predominantly comprised of negative reactions.
Go to any other forum site about this expansion & you'll find that there too will be a mostly negative response.
Surely they must notice that too, they'd be silly to ignore their customer's responses.
Plus, just look at online, the game has died, which says it all.

Adults can build things from Lego, adding the word 'play' isn't necessary.

You do realize it is a 'Game' right?

And why does everyone say online has died, I'm consistently in sessions with 50 to 60 others. Live events are usually plentiful with the usual moochers that do nothing but one run through something and then sit and watch.

OK so... why couldn't they keep the LEGO thing optional?

For UE customers, it's not optional. I have the option not to play it of course, but the LEGO expansion still takes up expansion slot 2. And you kinda have to play at least some of the LEGO expansion if you want to complete star card stuff.

And regardless of whether I play the expansion or not, I still have LEGO loading screens and LEGO cars popping up in mainland events.

It's fine if some Forza players are parents and want to introduce their kids to cars and the game series via LEGO. But keep it OPTIONAL. Allow people full choice to buy the expansion, or not buy it. Allow people to add LEGO content to their game, or opt out and not see it.

I think it's the forced inclusion of it that bothers me most of all.

Today was the day I tried the Lego addon. Trying out in the sense of "play 3 hours - JUST DO IT!".
The setting is not right at all, but a huge compliment to the track designer! The tracks are great! (the graphics too, of course)!
I had to drive several tracks repeatedly before I won. And these 3 hours... it was 10% frustrating and 90% fun. (why frustrating? because i didnt know the tracks :) )

Guys: Try it out. It's really cool - the challenges, the tracks, the graphics and the fun!

And let's be honest: During the journey, the lego-setting almost does not stand out.

who forced you to buy the expansion?

The whole part where I bought the Ultimate Edition. And LEGO is linked to Ultimate instead of being a separate standalone optional purchase.

Nobody forced any purchase. It was included in the ultimate edition which many of us preordered. I preordered mainly for the early access and was happy that also included the first 2 expansions. Given that the Lego expansion was therefore already paid for and having spent 8 - 9 hours in it I can honestly say I have no need to go there again. It was a wasted opportunity to apologise to the player base for releasing a broken game in the first place (team adventure, wall riding, audio glitches, super long matchmaking waits, no class rivals).

I think it comes down to a lot of us long time FH'ers feel continually let down by the route FH4 has taken. If I had to pay for LEGO expansion I would 100% not because to me it completely irrelevant to Horizon.

Ya I'm not big on the LEGO expansion. 3 cars, pretty much the same gameplay as the mainland (now with a LEGO skin on top), and a huge drudge-like chore list scorecard you have to fill out to finish building your lego home. Which um... doesn't really do much for you when it's done. Except you can say it's done. Yay?

Many of the previous expansions added something noticeably new. Rally racing + rally cars in FH1. A dramatic stormy island with harsh new weather for FH2. Snow and ice for FH3. In each case, the additions from the expansions ADDED to the richness of the game, and those elements carried over into future games. FH4 has rallying AND rain AND ice and snow. All the stuff introduced in previous games. What is LEGO adding that's going to carry over into future games?

I don't feel like the LEGO expansion is worth $20 or whatever they are charging people who don't have the ultimate edition. I would not have bought it if I didn't have the Ultimate Edition already.

I see your point but don't agree 100% on its relevance, after-all Lego is the second expansion and nothing from Hot Wheels (the second expansion for FH3) came across to FH4 (apart from the cars obviously). Fortune Island was the expansion most like the previous games and I would expect that the advanced weather system from that (in particular the lightning effects) would be what is included in the base FH5 game.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 25, 2019 8:37:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

[Mod Edit - Personal attacks & abusive language removed - D]

Edited by user Thursday, June 27, 2019 12:35:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

But playing with them is exactly what you're doing in the expansion. Where exactly is all the "building" ....?

[Mod Edit - Personal attacks & abusive language removed - D]

Edited by user Thursday, June 27, 2019 12:35:00 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

[Mod Edit - Quoted personal attacks & abusive language removed - D]

Maybe it's different for you guys in the states, but where I'm from (UK) car meets basically consist of performance cars of all shapes and sizes (and a load of pretenders) meeting up in a McDonalds car park, showing off their cars for half an hour and then racing up and down a dual carriageway until the police show up. No lego or hot wheels to be seen.

I doubt Forza can really replicate the feeling of being at an underground car meet due to the age rating but I'd love a game to do it, it's the main draw of NFS, just a shame about the handling model.

Edited by user Thursday, June 27, 2019 12:34:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

How did you manage to get the achievement to drive the F40 at 200mph for 10 seconds?

Sounds the same as how we do it in Australia, i wish the game stuck with car culture, its been an outlaw activity since the early hot rod days. Not too many rich kids in Lambos turn up but when they do we always have a great time burning them in our souped up chevs :)

Edited by user Wednesday, June 26, 2019 12:56:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

On the "oval"..

Managed to get it all done including the drifting thanks to the useful advice that's buried amongst the nonsense in this thread.,.,.

For the 2 consecutive drift zones in a Modern muscle I used the 2018 Mustang RTR Spec5 with Drift Monster Tune by SUBSmb ran them "uphill" with the shorter drift zone first...

I have 4 challenges to do and am struggling with the dk from dk (2 consecutive drift zones). All the advice I've seen so far involves RWD cars, traction off, stability control on, manual 2nd or 3rd gear and going downhill starting with the most northerly zone. I can 3 star the northern zone (100,000) but can't do the other one in a modern muscle car.

I'll certainly give the tune a try (creator DUBSmb) and going uphill but I'm not sure if I should be in 2nd gear, 3rd gear or automatic and have stability control on or off.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 26, 2019 7:56:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

TC and SC off definitely cant remember which gear I was in probably 2nd or 3rd...

I can't "controlled" drift to save my life .. but managed to three star them in about 2 hours of trying with the right tunes.... I find I have a bit more luck drifting uphill as I don't loose the back end and spin out so much...

I also found it less frustrating getting the score on the shorter zone then missing it on the longer one rather than the other way around. I got it on the second attempt that way round... I set a route to just beyond the end of the second zone so you have an idea how much further you have to go.

Thanks for the extra information and I'll devote a couple of hours to it tomorrow before the season changes. I'm struggling with the shorter zone so I would prefer to do it first.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 26, 2019 7:52:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

You're right! The hot wheels expansion didn't really add anything relevant to the franchise either. But I'm not so upset about that one because #1 at least it had cars I wanted, like the Zonda R. And the big one, #2, that expansion was 100% optional. It wasn't shoved down my throat like the LEGO expansion, which was shoehorned into the Ultimate Edition content.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 26, 2019 10:24:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified