Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:44:53 AM(UTC)
Hopefully this thread will be OK here as it is not tuning specific or build specific. And besides moving it to the other forum will mess my numbering up. :)
But I would imagine if anybody ploughs through my ramblings and understands what I am getting at a yes/no answer would suffice.
I have ploughed through the various tuning forums but they all seem to assume that you already have the best/good build.
I understand the basic principles of tuning (I think). It is about getting the car to handle/travel better, for a particular type of track. What I don’t quite follow is the build route. I am not being car/track specific here just a general rule of thumb. And I do appreciate there may well be hundreds of different answers for this, but like I said just some general pointers for a novice would be great.
Should you sort tyres /weight/suspension/transmission/power out in that sort of order when building within a particular class?
I.e. when doing a build is there a sort of `formula` to be used eg.
(Numbers are made up btw as not near my XBOX to confirm exact figures but hope you get the idea and I am only talking generally here not track specific. I tend to build a car and use as an all track car.
When building a car is there an `ideal` level on the ratings for each class eg speed 7 and handling 5 for B class and say speed 5 and handling 4 for c class? Or is this purely based on type of car chosen?
Or does a good B class favour high speed rather than handling and a good C class good handling low speed?
I am not trying to achieve the ultimate lap time car here just a good grounding to aim for.
To be honest even if I build/tuned the perfect lap time car I wouldn’t have the skill to drive it anyway to top leaderboards :)
I think what I mean is, if a good `B` class car has a speed of 7.1 handling of 5.3 etc should I build my choice of car to that sort of level or do I just try and max the levels within the class with my choice of car, so if the car has a high handling rate but lowish speed already then I just forgo the tyres/weight etc and go straight to power
Sorry if this all a bit` noddy` but I have not really been sure what I should be aiming for on the build side. I may even be at the stage of `woods for tree`s I have mulling this over for so long and just overcomplicated the whole thing
I know it would be easy to download a tune/build and race that, but I do want to try and learn while playing, so I hope the above makes sense, to what I want to achieve. And do enjoy building cars and see what the end result is (normally not great  but fun on the way).
Thanks again in advance

Edited by user Wednesday, June 4, 2014 7:22:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Moderator
#2 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:46:48 AM(UTC)
You could have kept the intro and questions in one post, you don't need to number them and this is going into the tuning section, where it belongs.

Edited by user Wednesday, June 4, 2014 5:49:55 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#3 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:37:16 AM(UTC)
OK thank you :) As I said in my Intro I am new to this forum posting thing!
Rank: Moderator
#4 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2014 6:39:02 AM(UTC)
No probs, sorry to be so short but was rushing. Enjoy your stay. :)
Rank: Driver's Permit
#5 Posted : Wednesday, June 4, 2014 8:19:46 AM(UTC)
Not a problem :) and thanks for the advice and links earlier.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#6 Posted : Thursday, June 5, 2014 8:26:14 AM(UTC)
If I understand correctly, you are looking for build advice for a car to be driven on all tracks in the hoppers...

What I like to do when I setup my cars, is use a couple test tracks, where I know my lap times well. I know generally where the speed/handling/accel should be near, but they can also be a little misleading, so dont really rely on their numbers. Lap times mean more, followed by feel of the car.

Road America (East?) The bigger square one is good to see how much accel/speed the car has coming out of mid speed corners. As you tune the cars and run some test laps, you will see that many will have close to the same speed at certain points on the track... In general I have found that the game or racing in general favors acceleration over handling to a certain extent, and speed is less important to both of them. For the most part, speed is only important on Le Mans...

A general, A class:
7.0-7.4 speed
5.4-5.8 handling
8.9-9.1 accel

You will find that if you do a build, with the same power, the accel can change from 8.8 to 9.1 with just a gearbox change... and sometimes, the actual performance of the car isnt much different minus the launch on the start. Also it can change due to tire choice... there are a few variables that come into play.

If the car is hardly driveable after the build, and tuning makes it a little better, but still not drive-able, you may have too much power/not enough grip... and may need to get wider or higher grip tires and drop power a little.

I used to build all of my cars with maximum grip, and focus on corner speed, but they only worked on the smaller high grip tracks which you spend more time in the corners. They wouldnt have the speed on the straights, and I would lose out on laptime. Going down in traction slightly, I was able to increase power and get better straight away speed, and with practice and tuning I was hitting very close to the same speeds in the corners but was shaving seconds off my laptimes.

Most of my cars are general setup cars, that I race on all tracks. Some do better on certain tracks than others, but they are typically within 1s of each other on the test tracks that I use.

When in the lobbies, I can generally see which cars will be competitive by their stats. Ones with very high handling and less speed/accel will do well on Alps, but wont be competitive on most of the other tracks. Ones with very high speed and LOW handling and average accel, will be good on lemans, but not many other places. The Accel vs handling will tell you how much tire grip / power / weight that the car has, and is a better example of how the car will drive.

There can be small tricks to the build, certain parts combinations that work better with each other... A gearbox when you have 300hp can bring the PI up 10 points, but when you have 600hp, it can only bring up the PI 1 point... you have to look at different combinations to see how the combination of parts effect the PI and build accordingly. Sometimes save 3-4 different builds, and test them with a base tune to see which is faster and more comfortable to drive.

In general, if I can build a setup that has potential to be .3s faster, but is harder to drive and less forgiving... I would prefer to adjust the setup to make it more consistent even if it costs a couple tenths. Chances are that I will error less and have a better overall time, even if my fastest lap is not as fast. If the build difference is close to a second between the one that feels better and the one that is faster... then that would be too much of a time difference, and I would be better using the faster one and under driving slightly.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#7 Posted : Thursday, June 5, 2014 10:31:39 AM(UTC)
EMURacing:- Thank you very much for your time to reply with a full and detailed explanation. I very much appreciate the time you have taken to reply and will put your advice and pointers to use. I now have something more solid to aim for when doing a build as I feel a lot of my effort have been very hit and miss. If I see you on line or your drivatar flying by I will remember to give you a wave will trying to get out of your way :) I have a fair amount to learn I fear but have been enjoying the `ride` so far :) Thanks again, and hopefully when I am a little more experienced I can pass on what I have been learnt to others, right now I think I would be a good pointer to how not to build a car :) :)
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:05:31 PM(UTC)
My general build process is as follows...

Full race weight reduction is usually the first thing I try to do. After that I will look into what kind of engine conversion it has.

If the car can run a 5.7 L V-8 I will most likely put you centrifugal supercharger on it right away.
If the car can run a 1.6 L rally motor I would most likely put the sports transmission in it right away to lower the gearing ratio for more top speed (final drive around a 2.80)

I will almost always run forza aero front and rear along with race exhaust.

Just as an example in B class I would consider my handling cars to have a 5.0 handle and in my non-handling cars around 4.7.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:05:32 PM(UTC)
My general build process is as follows...

Full race weight reduction is usually the first thing I try to do. After that I will look into what kind of engine conversion it has.

If the car can run a 5.7 L V-8 I will most likely put you centrifugal supercharger on it right away.
If the car can run a 1.6 L rally motor I would most likely put the sports transmission in it right away to lower the gearing ratio for more top speed (final drive around a 2.80)

I will almost always run forza aero front and rear along with race exhaust.

Just as an example in B class I would consider my handling cars to have a 5.0 handle and in my non-handling cars around 4.7.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 4:42:27 PM(UTC)
I never upgrade intercoolers or oil and cooling - adds way too much weight for what you get IMO.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 5:19:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DeathMetalRacer Go to Quoted Post
I never upgrade intercoolers or oil and cooling - adds way too much weight for what you get IMO.


Sometimes the first oil one is ok... 3horse power for 5 pounds is a good trade off
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 6:48:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ERS JOHNSON Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DeathMetalRacer Go to Quoted Post
I never upgrade intercoolers or oil and cooling - adds way too much weight for what you get IMO.


Sometimes the first oil one is ok... 3horse power for 5 pounds is a good trade off


Yes. One of my faves.
Rank: Series Champion
#13 Posted : Tuesday, June 10, 2014 7:33:47 PM(UTC)
pretty much ERS Johnson's post.

If the 5.7 is available use it and add the centrifugal supercharger.
if the 1.6 is available use it.

Track choice determines tyres.

Always use the race aero kits, even if you turn the aero all the way down.

Fill in the rest from there, never use the clutch or flywheel unless there is absolutely nothing else to round out to the PI boundary.

Note: Some cars are faster with a stock transmission, some faster with race, some with sport. TRY THEM ALL.
Talking to brick walls since 2007.
Motivational Poster. Praise Dragnet
Rank: Driver's Permit
#14 Posted : Wednesday, June 11, 2014 12:33:28 PM(UTC)
I always check the transmissions near the end of the build process, unless I know that the car NEEDS to have a sport or race trans already. Occasionally you will be able to gain PI by upgrading the trans... so even if you dont need it, always check. Checking at the beginning of the build isnt going to help, since the build needs to be close to finished. Sometimes with one engine it will have an increase in PI, and another a decrease.

I will often finish a build, save it, and continue tweaking the build with alternate engines, configurations to see if I can get anything more out of it... often not much, but occasionally there is something worthwhile for a specific track...
Rank: Racing Permit
#15 Posted : Monday, June 16, 2014 1:22:40 PM(UTC)
With a supercharged set up I like to include an intercooler. It gives smoother accel. It does add weight, but I like control in online races. For leaderboard I don't use it because I tend to prefer raw accel when there are no obstacles in my path and I can be less under control. Just floor it and hope I run a clean lap. In the end driving ability makes the difference.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#16 Posted : Sunday, April 30, 2017 7:56:29 AM(UTC)
how do you build a car? is there a website? is their a app that i
have to download on my xbox? tell me

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