Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
That's an assumption on your part. Counter-example: the 917 LH, which is back this season, but only as an 80% reward, when 80% is unattainable offline. Further, the Bone Shaker, which was brought back as a PGG reward.
If you have a quote from PG confirming that all cars available to online players will eventually be made available to offline players, please share it. Otherwise, you're merely speculating.
Fair enough, but it's also an assumption on
your part that PG will never allow you access to that car as an offline player. And now you should realize that you've come to the wrong place if you think that any of us here, other than @RetroKrystal, are privy to the roadmap for offline car availability. You're just preaching to the choir. If you would like to make your thoughts known to PG, then I suggest that you
Submit a Ticket on the Forza Support Site as Feedback/Suggestion. If you do that, then let me know your ticket number and
I will
also file a feedback/suggestion to PG on
your behalf, in reference to
your suggestion. That's the best that I or any other Forum member here can do for you with regard to your complaint.
Other than that, watch a minute of the following YouTube video from PG:
Forza Horizon 4 – Update 13 Live Stream: Porsche 917 LH Trial. And have faith. Frankly, these people don't seem like the kind of folks that are in the business of holding a grudge against a certain portion of their customer base. (And yeah, that was an assumption. I know.)
Look, I understand where you're coming from because I was once an offline player too when I first started out with FH4. My personal belief is that any content that is made available to core game players should also be made accessible to all players at some point. My
theory is that PG is prioritizing new content releases so that it doesn't have to face an onslaught of complaints from customers claiming that it is not providing them with any new content. So my thinking is that when things slow down a bit, PG will probably make available to everybody some of those items that were previously only accessible to online players. I do think that you have a valid point, but not in the context that you originally presented your argument.
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
Originally Posted by: seanbil 
We never discussed "Forzathon Points" in any part of our discussion; so there could be no way for me to misstate your argument.
Post #1205, earlier on page 49.
"
We" as in, you and I. I just checked "
Post #1205, earlier on page 49". That was a conversation between you and
@Talby71. Unless I was a part of that, which I
know that I
wasn't, then I think that
you're really reaching here.
For me to "misstate" your words, I'd first need to quote said words, which I didn't last I checked. Again, don't take my word for it -- to refresh your memory, I've posted the entirety of that conversation you had. . . with
@Talby71. So here's the complete transcript of the
two of you talking about "Forzathon Points" in Post #1208, earlier on page 49:
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
Originally Posted by: talby71 
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
Originally Posted by: talby71 
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
So we're on page 48 of this thread, and aside from one tweak two weeks in to lower the percentage from 100 to 80, what's actually been done to address dissatisfaction? Anything that would suggest that PG is listening to feedback and making changes?
So what do YOU think needs to be done to make it even more easier than it already is
I'm guessing you just want it removed altogether
Well, yeah, usually when my end users don't like something in the software I make, the first thing they ask me to do is have the change reverted.
I've already said what they should do, numerous times: decouple the events from the rewards, using the perfectly functional currency system that shipped with the game. That way, whether you get a reward has nothing to do with whether you play the game in a specific way, only that you're willing to play and win
x FP worth of events for a reward that costs
x FP.
so many people wouldn't be happy with that either
will claim they need to grind to get forzathon points
others want them to be just made paid dlc again too
no matter what they do people wont be happy
people these days just want constant hand outs for doing nothing
it's really not that hard to play the game and EARN the rewards for LITTLE effort each week, other wise go to the auction house and use the pointless excessive credits earned to buy the missed cars
Not counting upcoming seasonal exclusives, there are four cars I don't own: the Chevrolet ZR2, the Ford Capri FE, the Rossion Q1, and the VW ID-R.
The next time I grind out 16M credits, I can pick up the ID-R. The Rossion is very limited in availability on the AH right now. But the Capri FE? Forget it. There's simply no way I can get it by being a better racer - no matter how fast I am, the only way to get it is to do the blueprint/painting/tuning/photography card. Kind of ridiculous to lock the cars in a driving game behind something other than driving. And there's zero inventory on the AH at any price.
As for effort? I've won every championship in all four disciplines, three-starred every story chapter (incl. Upgrade Heroes) and every PR stunt, on the main map and in both DLCs. Please tell me why, in your view, that isn't effort.
I just don't think it's that crazy to suggest that one's rewards in a driving game should be predicated on how well one
drives, rather than their willingness to plug another warm body into the game's social features.
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
What I'm advocating would restore the previous system where people accrued rewards by playing how they want. I repeat: I am not suggesting that people who play online should be required to play offline to get rewards. I am suggesting that both offline and online play should reward FP, which would be used to purchase end-game rewards that are currently withheld for online activities only.
I want to point out that I have no issue with the accessibility of rewards to online and offline players alike, because that was never the point of discussion from me. Just because I'm explaining a possible motive for something doesn't mean that I'm actually in support of it. The main issue I had with your very first comment to one of my posts was that you were essentially telling me that my online play should be taking a back seat to
you being able to receive a reward. Period. Your entire premise was that the game's credibility was destroyed because of such. I provided you an argument otherwise. Still, that didn't mean that I supported the current framework; it just meant that I was able to see the developer's position on the matter and not just obstinately stare past it.
While online play may not be important to
you, it most certainly is important to
PG. It's
their game after all. Fact. They have a right to promote it any which way that best serves their purpose. Fact. Incentives drive activity. Fact. And their analytics are probably showing them that placing incentives in online events is producing the most activity in those areas. If you want to change those numbers, then you'll need to change the user activity itself. However, accomplishing
that feat will require a miracle on your part, because I doubt that you'll be able to convince online players (or even the Forum members here) to indefinitely skip the Trial and/or Seasonal Games for
your cause. They'll likely just laugh in your face. And they have every right to do so because they bought this game for
their enjoyment,
not yours. Fact.
So again, I provided you an explanation as to why things are probably happening the way they are. I'm not PG. I'm a customer, like yourself, simply explaining what I'm
observing from PG with regard to rewards in online activities. And
explaining an observation is much different than
supporting an observed position. There's a distinction between the two. My suggestion to you, as a gamer speaking to another gamer, was to
wait and see what PG does with those cars that you're missing in your collection. Again, I'm not defending PG's position by saying that to you, I was merely offering that as a "solution" to your, currently, backlogged gaming predicament.
Now on the matter of Forzathon Points, I want to make you aware that you've just
now introduced that subject as a point to
our discussion -- between
you and
me. So I'm more than happy to switch topics here and discuss that with you. Unless @Talby71 would also like to chime-in on this subject, since I quoted him earlier.
My quick response to you is that I
disagree with your suggestion. It is far, far better to earn a reward car in an activity than it is to receive a quantity of in-game currency. I will use the last game that I played as an example. I played that game for years and accumulated a significant amount of in-game currency. At one stage the game publisher introduced a second form of in-game currency that immediately devalued the first form of currency. They did that out of necessity because hackers found a way to exploit the game's credits system. This new form of currency had at least 10 times the amount of value per unit than the old one. It would be analogous to Forzathon Points to Credits. Anyhow, during the past 2 years the game publisher released a follow-up game. The problem was that they couldn't get players to move from the old game to the new game. So what they did was readjust the old game's economics so that
both forms of in-game currency were so devalued that longtime players would either be pressured to shift to the new game or face a progression paywall (microtransactions).
If the in-game economics stay constant, then I have no issue with being awarded with Forzathon Points in the Playlist. However, there are three problems with being awarded in-game currency in lieu of an entire reward car: (1) We will likely
not receive a value of Forzathon Points that's equivalent to a high-value car such as the Apollo I.E.; (2) PG could make an adjustment to the in-game economics where FP car prices are inflated, thereby devaluing any Forzathon Points earned and; (3) PG could simply reduce, over time, the number of Forzathon Points earned through Playlist activities.
So your suggestion of replacing entire cars with Forzathon Points could end up reducing the overall value of Playlist rewards. This is the warning that I give to you and to those who would rather play for Forzathon Points than a reward car, because I've seen firsthand how a game publisher can poison a game's economic framework pretty quickly. It is
exactly for that reason why I left that other game and came to Forza.
Originally Posted by: Lowe0 
Because, as discussed above, there is zero guarantee that it will be made available to offline players. Again, if you have evidence otherwise, feel free to share, but a generic "they'll be back again in one way or another" is not a guarantee of availability to offline players.
I appreciate you taking the time to have a discussion about a matter that's important to you and bringing it to the attention of the Community. My initial contribution to this thread was primarily about PG, as a game publisher, being cognizant of what they're trying to accomplish in certain areas of the game, so as not to contribute to the growing epidemic of mental health issues that can arise from gaming -- that their
primary objective be to do no harm above everything else, up to and including the spurring of player activity. Here's a clip from my original post:
Originally Posted by: seanbil 
Having now seen all aspects of the Playlist, I think the only changes that I'd make to it is to have a maximum of 3 complete attempts at the seasonal playground games, and 5 complete attempts at 'The Trial' in order to be awarded prizes. I think that the current system might promote unhealthy behaviors in gaming when an award is beyond a player's natural abilities. Having a known grind point allows everyone to plan how much time to set aside for the playlist each week. It also gives everyone an opportunity to complete the events in fewer tries based on skill, while minimizing the possibility of excessive attempts due to bad team chemistry from random matchmaking. . . .
Again, I think that it's glaringly obvious that a vast majority of FH4's players are here for the collecting-aspect of the game, and some for the Playlist-completion aspect of it. As stated in my very first post to this thread topic, I feel that PG should implement a maximum limit to the number of
attempts at the Trial and Seasonal Games before
automatically awarding a prize and Playlist activity completion to those players that are stuck grinding away at the same event(s) without any visible end. During last Series' winter Trial I found the discussion between some random players (children talking over voice chat) to be rather disturbing -- disturbing at how obsessed they were at earning a reward car in a
game, and at the number of attempts they had already made for it. The secondary topic that I presented afterwards, about locked game assets via online play, was an
observation as to why
I thought PG was doing that. I also provided an example of how another game publisher handled the distribution of game content in the last game that I played as a comparative example of how game publishers could be inadvertently promoting mental health issues in gaming when they "push" players too far for the sake of profit. Comparatively speaking, FH4 shouldn't even be in the same discussion with that other game, but my position is that PG could
still be doing more to see that its gaming environment doesn't get out of hand for its players. This is just a game. I hope that people see that and understand that they, themselves, are far more important than any reward car in a game.
So, I refer you to my original offer above in regard to submitting a Feedback/Suggestion ticket to Support. I, personally, will be filing a suggestion to Support on the matter of placing some limits to the Trial and Seasonal Games. And finally, with all seriousness, from one Forum member to another: There are much better ways to spend your time than grinding away at credits for the VW I.D. R. Just play the game when you feel like it and the credits will eventually find you. Or just wait, have fun with some other games, and then see what PG does with it. That's my 2¢.