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May / June / July 2020 outlook

While Forza is not mentioned specifically in Xbox's 20/20 plans, these tweets from Aaron Greenberg on May 5th provide some timeline to watch:

"We have too much to show/reveal this year, it cannot fit into one show. So get ready for new stuff from us every month leading up to holiday. Starts with #InsideXbox on Thursday at 8am PT"^

"If helpful the Thursday [Inside Xbox livestream] will have Xbox Series X gameplay from some of our partners. Note many of our biggest partners are working on summer timelines, so this is the start of these monthly reveals. Expect a variety of unique games with some new 3rd party IP as well this month."^

"Common Qs: Thursday show will be under an hour. June news will be done differently than Inside Xbox show. July is the big Xbox Games Studios show, we will go around the world to see first looks & even new game announcements from those creative teams. Will answer more in replies."^

Q: so there will be a june show/event/thing then?
A: "There will be news we are planning to revel/release, but not an Inside Xbox show next month."^

Q: Will any first party be there? Even as a teaser of sorts for the July show?
A: "Nope, saving for big July show focused on 1P."^

Q: For july it will be several showcases or only one for everything in the same time and place ?
A: "One big show for July planned at the moment."^


"All of our major Xbox Game Studios releases will launch on PC and GamePass allowing our community to stay connected no matter where they choose to play."^

Edited by user Tuesday, July 28, 2020 12:08:15 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

In response to a question about community feedback on the upcoming title, Chris Esaki tweeted on May 13th, 2020:
https://twitter.com/Loun...atus/1260768950461161472

Edited by user Saturday, November 28, 2020 12:10:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Announced on June 26, 2020: Microsoft is planning to permanently close its physical retail Microsoft Stores other than the flagships in London, New York City, and Sydney.
https://news.microsoft.com/2020/06/26/microsoft-store-announces-new-approach-to-retail/

Although this doesn't directly address Forza, it would obviously affect purchasing the game and attending game launch events.

Xbox Games Showcase - July 23

Today Xbox announced the date for the July update in its summer monthly "Xbox 20/20" plans - the Xbox Games Showcase (what we could think of as the annual Xbox E3 Briefing replacement). There is no mention of any specific games in this announcement, so by no means does that mean the inclusion of any Forza content, but given the possibility, this would be a key event to watch.


https://twitter.com/Xbox/status/1280139454796009477

Edited by user Monday, July 6, 2020 7:24:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

July 23, 2020 #XboxGamesShowcase Reveal




Trailer: Xbox YouTube | Forza YouTube | @Xbox Tweet | @Forzamotorsport Tweet
- gameplay showing the garage and racing on Laguna Seca, name and font


Article: Xbox Wire | fm.net/News



Forza Support Announcement/FAQs

Edited by user Thursday, July 23, 2020 10:07:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

A closer look at 'Forza Motorsport' for Xbox Series X
A Turn 10 architect and Xbox director talk audio, visuals and latency.
Jessica Conditt, @JessConditt
https://twitter.com/engadget/status/1286336535235895303
https://www.engadget.com/forza-motorsport-xbox-series-x-first-look-interview-162008531.html

• Ray tracing improves realism; without it developers would have to compromise with approximations that result in flat lighting.
  
• "Convolution reverb is a large part of this upgrade. It’s essentially ray tracing for acoustics, providing a realistic, dynamic simulation of sound in any physical space. Using convolution reverb, Turn 10 developers are able to sample sounds in specific areas -- say, the plush interior of a luxury vehicle or the hollowed-out body of a race car -- and apply it to the proper on-screen scenes in real-time." This technology is enabled by dedicated hardware in next gen devices like Xbox Series X.
  
• Low latency and dynamic latency input are important due to car speeds exceeding slow latency response times.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 28, 2020 12:29:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Forza Monthly - July 27, 2020 livestream




Video: YouTube | Twitch


Chris Esaki appeared during the July 2020 Forza Monthly livestream to talk with host Leahviathan about the unveiling of Forza Motorsport during the July 23rd #XboxGamesShowcase event. Highlights:

• Foundational work on tools and tech allows the team to build cars and tracks more quickly, at incredible detail, and scale up for high-end PCs and Xbox Series X but also support lower-end PCs.
  
  
• Motorsport forward: The 'Motorsport' portion of the new logo is the emphasized intentionally, and the Xbox Games Showcase trailer shows off how you the player and your team show up in liveries on and off track. "Doubling down on motorsport." "We are going to be the most motorsport Motorsport we've made."
  
  
• New audiences: Game Pass helps bring in a new audience to the community. The development team has the most diverse backgrounds in a Motorsport team yet. A focus on accessibility and inclusivity. Working directly with members of the community about competitive experiences in Motorsport.
  
  
• Player feedback: The ability to create and change content quickly allows for faster response to player feedback. "I really think of the new Forza Motorsport as as love letter to our longtime fanbase as well as a big welcoming to potential new fans that may come in through things like Game Pass." "The team, especially me, has been spending a lot of time with our streamers, our content creators, understanding their needs around their streaming and their content creation and community and what that means. We've read every forum post, we're all over social media, we know every single feature and car request that have ever come into the Forza Motorsport universe so I think we're pretty in tune. And I think we're set up in a way now where we can really deliver on that promise of those features."
  
  
• Ray Tracing: Ray tracing is coming to Forzatech (the engine that powers the game). A whole host of other technologies to improve visuals on cars and track environments (photogrammetry, new laser scanning) help support what ray tracing reveals.
  
  
• Immersive connection: "That word connection means a lot to me and the team. When I think about this next generation I think that's the word that really defines it for me." Ray tracing allows players to connect to cars and tracks. Next gen is "really about building this welcoming home where you and your friends can have a great time creating and competing."
  
  
• "We'll be sharing a lot more soon."

Edited by user Tuesday, July 28, 2020 12:21:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I get that FM8 isn’t coming out anytime soon, but when are we getting new info? I don’t want to have to wait until E3 next year just for it to be the same exact game as FM7.

This statement is very encouraging:

“Player feedback: The ability to create and change content quickly allows for faster response to player feedback. "I really think of the new Forza Motorsport as as love letter to our longtime fanbase as well as a big welcoming to potential new fans that may come in through things like Game Pass." "The team, especially me, has been spending a lot of time with our streamers, our content creators, understanding their needs around their streaming and their content creation and community and what that means. We've read every forum post, we're all over social media, we know every single feature and car request that have ever come into the Forza Motorsport universe so I think we're pretty in tune. And I think we're set up in a way now where we can really deliver on that promise of those features."

::fingers crossed::

November 2, 2020

Q: How's development on the next @ForzaMotorsport coming along?
A: https://twitter.com/Loun...atus/1323458569417576452

Why wouldn't it work? Horizon is more popular and would actually sell consoles. As far as I know turn 10 is not working on a new engine, they're just adding things which wouldn't really benefit a horizon game so there's no reason to delay it.

No engine, no game.

If T10 is not doing new engine what are they doing? M7 was completely fine and next iteration would be possible in few months. Just copy everything and release as M8. But they said no, it's not enough and their engine is probably very bad after those years. Like every big SW project with hundreds of cooperators (just speculation).

If engine is OK why M8 doesn't have any trailer? Why no info?

OK, if they are only adding dirt or some other stuff to the old one, why no new info for M8? It's many years after release of M7 and you can build 3 games in that time window with all already made assets.

Everybody said M8 is in early stage now. How? Without old engine it's the only possibility I guess.

There is zero indication any work has even started on a new Horizon. Work is not done on the current Horizon which would stop when they reallocate resources. It’s Dec, that article said this year with is unlikely and casts doubt on that article going around. There is a Motorsport trailer. Not called 8. Just Forza Motorsport.
https://youtu.be/6bfC-vvlbHc

Edited by user Saturday, December 5, 2020 2:12:26 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Probably still too early, any confirmed steering wheel companies for this game? Fanatec just released the M4 GT3 steering wheel with PS4/5 support and that would be awesome to use it considering if you can make the buttons function for the GT3/ other racing cars in the game. I probably can't afford it right away, but the marketing strength this will to pull in users looking for a legit motorsport game. Please give us some legit hardware to go along with the emphasis on motorsports!

Th trailer is really it right now. Maybe on Monday’s Forza Monthly there will be some info but don’t get your hopes up.

Edited by user Saturday, December 5, 2020 4:21:55 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

How is this game going to be marketed to the hardcore fan base if the direction Forza is heading in is clearly towards casual gamers?

Because all the "hardcore fanbase" can do is whine about how great FM4 was.

No way to sell your product if your public flat refuses anything you build on principle, so they go for new people who maybe whine less.

I actually said the same when they first announced it was in "early development", they never said they were building a new engine so I didn't know why it wasn't going to launch this year. I personally feel after motorsport 7s lackluster reception the future of motorsport was up in the air. I think there was a real possibility that the motorsport series would end. Sales were down, engagement was down and streamers wouldn't play it anymore, I think it was in real trouble.

Every motorsport game since the beginning always had a 2 year development cycle so something clearly happened after motorsport 7 to change this. They decided to extend support for 7 which imo really didn't do much as most of that time was wasted backtracking on the changes they made from past forzas. In the spring of 2019 they said they were working on the sequel and by early December last year it was said they held their first studio-wide playtest. Now obviously covid has effected many games as well as the new consoles themselves so I have no doubt things have been delayed but to go from having a working game in December to stating its still in early development in July is a bit odd.

Horizon has not faced the same issues as motorsport yet so there's no need to delay their 2 year development cycle. The forza tech engine is not the issue with motorsport, its what they've done or lack there of that has caused motorsport to get stale. I do worry about the lack of info though tbh, the trailer should have had gameplay and the fact that it didn't is strange especially after gt7 released a gameplay trailer.

Horizon 4 is a beautiful game, but got repetitive fast. It was the same issue with the Motorsport series as well. For all we know the GT trailer might be the same previous game, but with prettier graphics and with the main complaints addressed and that could explain their development progress. T10 really needs a breakthrough or go heavy on the sim aspect. During the first lockdown they should of taken notes on the PC sims that drivers went to. Even normal gamers were trying out those sims because the attention they were getting. They have to take a page from Porsche: they do sport cars so well even people, who don't care to take their cars to track, want to own a car of their recognition. They really need go heavy on the sim aspects, but make it sexy at the same time for people to lust after it. I don't think them making actual dynamic weather is enough to have us grab our wallets for the next game either. Also note, the GDK's for Xbox Series consoles are still being developed so to have a game taking advantage of the series console features might take time to develop.

Edited by user Sunday, December 6, 2020 9:58:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I think 7 made them realise how complacent the team had become, because really they have not innovated or got people exited about the motorsport series since fm3/4 and the team had a very different vibe then.
Since those title we have really only seen graphics and content upgrades, while we lost core features or features became painful to use compared to older titles.

Now with the new team lead by Chris Esaki, which is now the largest team t10 has had to date, they seem hugely focused on the core of the game, the fundamentals. For the first time since FM4 we're hearing physics improvements, new tyre model, new atmosphere system, new temperature modelling, etc. I believe these systems was what he was referring to when they talked about the in house play test, as the game can be in a very basic state to test things like this.

Ray tracing is the big thing going forward that needs to be worked into the graphics and audio engine.

I have a good feeling that the next game is going to knock our sock off, Chris has been what the game has needed for a long time IMO.

They didn't have a "working" game in December, for all we know it could've been an alpha. It was the first test, maybe not even with all of the content in it.

Horizon has definitely faced the same issues as Motorsport. If you follow FH4's roadmap from the beginning, the game was somewhat buggy at launch and Playground spent much of their time adding back features present from FH3 but deliberately cut from FH4, such as selling duplicate cars won from wheelspins. The difference is that the Forza Motorsport community is much more critical of the game's issues than the Forza Horizon community, who treats the little bones PG gives them from time to time as a feast.

There are still bugs in FH4 that date from release and PG has never fixed them despite being sent numerous tickets. And, considering PG cannot release a Forza Horizon without taking advantage of Turn 10's latest version of their engine (which is why FM bugs frequently carry over to FH), PG must stretch FH4's life however they can while T10 irons the bugs out.

IMO this "slowdown" in FM concerns me because it could mean Microsoft is putting most if not all of their baskets on Horizon, even more so now that they barely have exclusives to use as bait to sell Game Pass subs. I'm seeing way too many cars that should've been Motorsport-only being added to Horizon, like the electric race car from VW, and Turn 10 is spending time scanning cars like Koenigsegg Jesko only for Playground to benefit from all the hype by adding it to their game, with last gen features.

Ironically, Forza Motorsport's biggest opponent is its sibling game. Gran Turismo had a rocky launch but still sold well on PS4, whereas FM7 was mostly cannibalized by FH3 players who'd rather stay in Horizon than move on to the next Motorsport game.

Edited by user Saturday, December 12, 2020 5:43:07 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Its inevitable that any gaming franchise will eventually become stale and motorsport was no different. Every developer at some point needs to shake things up to keep engagement. Assassins creed became a rpg, gran turismo became gt sport and sadly for some forza became horizon. At the time I didn't think it was a bad move, who wouldn't want to drive the forza motorsport cars in an open world setting. As time went on though horizon certainly gained traction with its more casual approach and introducing certain features people wanted in a motorsport game first like day/night/rain.

While horizon was gaining its popularity i feel turn 10 definitely neutered some of motorsports "casual" potential by not really improving certain game modes like cat and mouse races and virus/tag while also not reimplementing user created lobbies which were often just a place to hang out, car soccer(look at how popular rocket league is) and not bringing back a track like fujimi kaido for the drifters. They chose to instead casualize the racing side of motorsport which didn't work. These imo were critical mistakes or oversites that may well have sealed motorsports fate.

With 7 they chose to not put any work into driver ratings or penalties while their competition so obviously did. Another crucial mistake made by turn 10 at a time when it was known both gt sport and pcars 2 would be featuring these things. We also saw many vehicles that were obviously more geared towards horizon being thrown into dlc packs for motorsport. Supposedly 7 was going to have an off road component which never materialized but by keeping the vehicles in these packs it definitely had a negative effect on the player base.

Sharing cars between the games will always occur because of licensing fees and development costs that will benefit from having 2 games sharing said cost. But I've never been a fan of how this was implemented, I don't like that if I want the motorsport dlcs I'm gonna end up with offroad vehicles for an on road track based game and if I wanted horizon dlcs I was getting race cars for a street track based game.

Only time will tell whats in store for motorsport. Chris Esaki seems nice enough but I've heard this song and dance before with Dan Greenwalt. Turn 10 is certainly not the same company not only in-house staff but also the way development is handled. The issues we've heard about with Halo Infinite when it comes to subcontracting development is not unique with 343, turn 10 does this as well and its only gotten more prevalent in recent games.

I know its more cost effective to do these things but it ends up having in 343s case catastrophic effects. Development suffers when this occurs. In forza 7 the quality of everything was all over the place, whether it was cars, tracks, game modes and features it was just imbalanced.

Hopefully lessons have been learned and the increase of turn 10 staff has more to do with quality control rather than pure output. I know times are different, gaming has unfortunately evolved into the same clinical purely profit based approach taken by the movie and music industry and imo has suffered for it, because games are different. No ones going to watch the same movie or listen to the same song for hundreds of hours, games require constant engagement . Horizon has taken a GAS approach that i guess works for their player base, but it didn't for motorsport, hopefully they recognize this.

New content can certainly continue player engagement, but if the engagement isn't there to begin with or changes arent made promptly to keep engagement which i think was the case in forza 7, the game will surely fail. They need a clear identity as to what forza motorsport is and the type of players that will play their game and frankly, be unapologetic about it. Whatever the focus is they need to do just that and focus on it. Horizon has seemingly focused on being the car collecting game, motorsport needs to focus on something else because trying to target the same player base between two games with supposed different ideologies isn't working anymore.

I know ray tracing is the new buzzword right now but it won't be unique to turn 10. They need to really step up to the plate and make people want to play their game for more than just the graphics. Theres too much competition on various platforms to come out with the same old forza with the same old priorities. They've made amazing games that have been able to maintain quality as well as innovation in the past, i just hope we'll see it again some day.

Ditto that, especially the last few paragraphs.

I jumped ship from Gran Turismo to Forza Motorsport because I got sick of playing the same game again and again with prettier graphics, and T10 showed over the first few games that they were willing to look for and make improvements to make the game more enjoyable. After FM6 I was all set to be done with the Forza franchise, as well. There just wasn't enough difference between 4 and 6 (I skipped 5 because I didn't have an XBone at the time) to justify another purchase. However, the cars in the FM7 demo had a much better feel of weight and weight transfer, which had been severely lacking in the previous games, so I ended up picking it up.

FM(8) will need a similar type of purposeful improvement if T10 wants me to buy it. I give zero [cares] about RAY TRACING!, zero [cares] about gimmick multiplayer modes, operant conditioning loot crates, or incremental treadmill rewards. I care about driving cars I like around a track in as reasonably believable a manner as can be managed.

And if they go with a GAAS model, I will most likely be done for good. I'm happy with the money I've spent on the Motorsport series throughout the years, but the amount of time I can dedicate to the game will make it incredibly difficult for me to justify any subscription cost, no matter how small.

[Mod Edit - off topic - MM]

Edited by user Sunday, January 31, 2021 1:06:48 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Ray tracing is the big thing going forward that needs to be worked into the graphics and audio engine.


[/quote]


I do not care about ray tracing. Make a game that is bug free, loaded with cars and tracks