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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#51 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2019 12:45:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
I'll share it. It requies manual transmission because (of course) it runs with the standard V8 swap with centrifugal supercharger. Redlining is key. While there are cars which accelerate faster (Daytona, Evo VI) the Insignia is incredibly stable and fast through turns. It profits from being AWD stock and the sport gearbox reducing PI. This freed up the space I needed to fit the centrifugal supercharger in without butchering it.

Thanks, just gave it 3 runs of LFS, did 3:20 then 3:19.2 then 3:19.1, so it was slower than the RS4 for me. It's very different to drive, though, my RS4 is super easy to drive by comparison, much more stable. Nonetheless, I felt in the 3rd run like I was doing pretty well with your Insignia, but I was miles off your pace.

Would you mind having a go with my RS4, and also my Daytona Missile tune? My suspicion is that you'll find the RS4 slower than the Insignia, vs me finding it faster, because with your greater driving skill, its extra stability isn't needed. But I have a feeling you'll be able to make far better use of the Missile than I can and it might beat the Insignia in your hands (well, it beats my Insignia time in my hands, it just doesn't beat your Insignia time, my best is 3:16.9).
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#52 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2019 1:47:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
I doubt it'll do well on S1 because it lacks tire width.

It's worth a try, I've just got the RS4 to within 0.3 secs of my best LFS S1 time, and there's quite a lot of scope for different engine builds, so it might well be possible to make it faster.

Edit: yes, after some more tweaking I've just taken 0.8 secs off my best LFS S1 time with the RS4.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 20, 2019 2:28:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#53 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2019 3:11:54 PM(UTC)
I suppose you already know that the Ai cars are selected based on your car, so if you pick a slow car the Ai will be slower. I mean you can take almost any car round the Goliath and the ai will be adapted for each car.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#54 Posted : Wednesday, February 20, 2019 10:26:33 PM(UTC)
I think it is a thing to tune a car for a very specific type of race or a specific race. It's another thing to have it compatible with online TA of FFAA. Back to FH3, you could tune a Lancer or a Willys or a GTR 1993 or dart Hemi and manage to challenge a sub 2004 but end of championships, mostly sub 2004 will win.
For me it is same story than wall riding and some saying they can challenge people wall riding by clean racing. Sure it is possible but when the wall rider is a top player and picks turns he wall rides carefully, overall, you are screwed, at least, honestly, I am.


Rank: A-Class Racing License
#55 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:08:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
I'll share it. It requies manual transmission because (of course) it runs with the standard V8 swap with centrifugal supercharger. Redlining is key. While there are cars which accelerate faster (Daytona, Evo VI) the Insignia is incredibly stable and fast through turns. It profits from being AWD stock and the sport gearbox reducing PI. This freed up the space I needed to fit the centrifugal supercharger in without butchering it.

Thanks, just gave it 3 runs of LFS, did 3:20 then 3:19.2 then 3:19.1, so it was slower than the RS4 for me. It's very different to drive, though, my RS4 is super easy to drive by comparison, much more stable. Nonetheless, I felt in the 3rd run like I was doing pretty well with your Insignia, but I was miles off your pace.

Would you mind having a go with my RS4, and also my Daytona Missile tune? My suspicion is that you'll find the RS4 slower than the Insignia, vs me finding it faster, because with your greater driving skill, its extra stability isn't needed. But I have a feeling you'll be able to make far better use of the Missile than I can and it might beat the Insignia in your hands (well, it beats my Insignia time in my hands, it just doesn't beat your Insignia time, my best is 3:16.9).


I run rayne insignia few times yesterday and best i was able to get was 3,22, i then build even more stable version (my version is over 50kg heavier than rayne's tune) and i did with that one 3,21,5. I then run it few times with bone shaker and i set my own record on that track 3,17,7. Im not suprised that in track im slower than you with you when both use same tune (im pretty sure you have run that mutch more often than i have) but im suprise how well i do there with bone shaker when comparing against your times.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#56 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 3:19:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XXX 2zigenTuner Go to Quoted Post

What's the name of your track? And are your lap times made public? And if so, where can find them?


My test track is called "Forest Run" and starts at the "Astmoore" road circuit (don't know the exact English name, playing with German language). It was originally intended to be a test track for S1. While it delivers even more balanced times on S1 and S2 it still works for A-class. All of my fastest A-cars (so far) are ones which are fast everywhere else. Only specific cars like the Elise '05 or Clio FE which are beasts on handling tracks aren't performing well on my track.

I've not made any of my complete lists public. I've posted my top 10 from time to time.
Would be quite some work but I could digitalize my S2 and S1 lists because they are finished (all S2 and S1 cars are tested). A-class is still in the making because the amount of cars is incredibly high and the fastest build isn't always immediatly obvious.
With lap times in the 5-6 minutes range it takes time and yesterday one of my "shift pedal" contacts on my Elite Controller broke so I have to stop testing until I get that fixed. I could downshift with "X" but it would hurt consistency and thus testing accuracy.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#57 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:02:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: XXX 2zigenTuner Go to Quoted Post

What's the name of your track? And are your lap times made public? And if so, where can find them?


My test track is called "Forest Run" and starts at the "Astmoore" road circuit (don't know the exact English name, playing with German language). It was originally intended to be a test track for S1. While it delivers even more balanced times on S1 and S2 it still works for A-class. All of my fastest A-cars (so far) are ones which are fast everywhere else. Only specific cars like the Elise '05 or Clio FE which are beasts on handling tracks aren't performing well on my track.

I've not made any of my complete lists public. I've posted my top 10 from time to time.
Would be quite some work but I could digitalize my S2 and S1 lists because they are finished (all S2 and S1 cars are tested). A-class is still in the making because the amount of cars is incredibly high and the fastest build isn't always immediatly obvious.
With lap times in the 5-6 minutes range it takes time and yesterday one of my "shift pedal" contacts on my Elite Controller broke so I have to stop testing until I get that fixed. I could downshift with "X" but it would hurt consistency and thus testing accuracy.



Pretty nice track *thump up* how mutch time it take for you to learn that track to be consistent?

Elite controller is good but those seems to be broken all the time, would be nice if controller that is that expensive wouldnt be broken all the time.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#58 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 4:38:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post


Pretty nice track *thump up* how mutch time it take for you to learn that track to be consistent?

Elite controller is good but those seems to be broken all the time, would be nice if controller that is that expensive wouldnt be broken all the time.


Thanks. Took quite some time to get all the braking and turning points into the muscle memory ;) Nowadays I start the first lap to see which gear is needed in which turn, evaluate braking distances and try to get a feeling for the throttle control if needed. Then, I run two fast laps, note down the faster one and if they're seperated more than 1.5 seconds I run the 3 laps again and compare. But since I've driven this track hundreds of times most fast laps for a certain car are within 1 second. Which provides enough accuracy for a ~6 minutes lap to rate the car.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#59 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:01:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
I run rayne insignia few times yesterday and best i was able to get was 3,22, i then build even more stable version (my version is over 50kg heavier than rayne's tune) and i did with that one 3,21,5. I then run it few times with bone shaker and i set my own record on that track 3,17,7. Im not suprised that in track im slower than you with you when both use same tune (im pretty sure you have run that mutch more often than i have) but im suprise how well i do there with bone shaker when comparing against your times.

Is the Bone Shaker tune you're using shared?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#60 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 5:19:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post


Pretty nice track *thump up* how mutch time it take for you to learn that track to be consistent?

Elite controller is good but those seems to be broken all the time, would be nice if controller that is that expensive wouldnt be broken all the time.


Thanks. Took quite some time to get all the braking and turning points into the muscle memory ;) Nowadays I start the first lap to see which gear is needed in which turn, evaluate braking distances and try to get a feeling for the throttle control if needed. Then, I run two fast laps, note down the faster one and if they're seperated more than 1.5 seconds I run the 3 laps again and compare. But since I've driven this track hundreds of times most fast laps for a certain car are within 1 second. Which provides enough accuracy for a ~6 minutes lap to rate the car.


I dont doubt abaout that, i need to use rewind few times when totally mess up corner when evalute totally wrong how fast can go some corners.

I really admire how consistent you can drive, i wouldnt trust my times in two laps even at short circuits, i run at least 5 laps before can valuate how car perfomance against others, and tracks like goliath i cant be consist enough (at least S2 and x-class cars i cant) But i will definetly run that your track few times more later.

@breeminator i just share that, no aero one is bit faster in that track, version with aero i run 3,18,5
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 7:07:04 AM(UTC)
I have no consistency for me. I rotate my cars I drive daily (hourly) so at best I learn the road and drive by feels XD. Heck, for the cheeky lambos I used the Jarama! Side note, it was a monster surprizingly.

Back to topic of PI and boneshaker, why not share up your fastest cars. What common traits do they have so perhaps PI weighting can get a tweak to balance the overall game environment?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#62 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 9:56:53 AM(UTC)
My first try with the Boneshaker on Elmsdon on Sea sprint in the wet, I was slightly slower than in the NSX '05. I didn't get the impression it was a super car which outclassed other good A class cars.
Rank: Driver's License
#63 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:10:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: OutTheRectangle Go to Quoted Post
I disagree on it being terrible, I do respect it though if you've created a better.

It might be personal taste, but it seemed to understeer horrifically, the car just doesn't want to turn (your M-B tune). If that's your personal preference it must be rare as I've never downloaded such an understeer biased tune from anyone else.

I've put a video up of my drives with the RS4 for rivals and Lakehurst Forest Sprint:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vcksDPr0b14


Yeah understeer doesn't bother me that much at this point. I got the hang of it the most part, it's just mainly you have to be more "on it". There's only one car that I can't handle the understeer & that's the Mitsubishi GTO. Seems to be great in everything for S1 besides that knockback.

Of course i wouldnt want understeer, but on most cars it no longer bothers. I just have to be more cautious & attentive.

Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post

Good if that works for you but i wouldnt say that bone shaker killer when it's not even close bone shaker times.

And while it's good to have good accelaration it shouldnt never be main point building car (outside of drag tunes), even if you have best accelaration car it dont mean nothing if you lose lots of time in corners. And those M5 and 300SL they dont even accelerate any faster than top a-class cars do, daytona even accelerate mutch faster while still getting decent handling. I just made that same 300SL with less power and heavier and even without right fine tuning i was still faster around track because my car take's corners faster. (yet still this thing is damn slow)


I jist got my first Boneshaker today about two hours agp from the Plauground event. My M5 is faster than the highest HP A Class Bone Shaker tune that i saw & downloaded by 4/5 seconds in the Festival Drag Strip. The Bone Shaker hits it about 130/131mph while my M5 hits it at 134/135mph. Heres a video:

https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoNgSK_W84IXb_SO5dP1WQT0Eug

As you can see, both the M5 & None starting their wheel at the line, my M5 pulls harder & hits the trap faster. I did it about 5 time each & my M5 would hit either 134 or 135 on the trap while the Bone hits it at either 130 & 131, with that downloaded tune. That's a significant difference of MPH with my time & that user's tune.

If you look at the video I posted earlier in this thread, you can see when the road is straight that my M5 pulls past just about everyone easily. There's no skill in straight lines, besides who can pull & climb the fastest. I do usually lose a bit of lead with a Bone Shaker when it comes to turns like how you mentioned, but as long as I don't crash or do a unnecessary drift it's not a big to where it's impossible to catch up pretty fine. Same with Daytonas, as you mentioned. Although Daytona can keep up with me more in terms of pure speed.

Handling is not that big of a deal when it come to Class A as long as you have the speed to make up for it & as long as you don't screw a turn up. Speed & patience.

Now that I've spent some time with the Shaker myself, it's not taste than my M5 in terms of Acceleration, HP or Top Speed, but it does have my M5 beaten in grip & handling. The Bone Shaker has amazing brake & turn speed compared to other Class A's, but you should be able to keep up with as long as you do well with turns your self & have the speed to match. If I screw up in a race against a skillful player, I have more of a chance to lose, if i hit all or almost everything correctly against a skillful player, then I have a chance of winning. Thats what these races in my M5 come down too, & why it's a "destroyer" since it can actually have the chance to win now.

I'm going to do my own tune with the Bone Shaker as well & see if I can create a tune even better than the one I downloaded. And I do appreciate yours & others shared tips & experience in this thread too.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#64 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:17:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
My first try with the Boneshaker on Elmsdon on Sea sprint in the wet, I was slightly slower than in the NSX '05. I didn't get the impression it was a super car which outclassed other good A class cars.

The tune you use is crucial with the Bone Shaker. Did you have the rally tyres? It can usually beat pretty much anything else in the wet, but the NSX is the closest to it in the wet of what I've tested.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#65 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:27:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Vaporisor Go to Quoted Post
I have no consistency for me. I rotate my cars I drive daily (hourly) so at best I learn the road and drive by feels XD. Heck, for the cheeky lambos I used the Jarama! Side note, it was a monster surprizingly.

Back to topic of PI and boneshaker, why not share up your fastest cars. What common traits do they have so perhaps PI weighting can get a tweak to balance the overall game environment?


Common things in best a-class cars, awd + V8 swap, this topic is allready many of best a-class cars, daytona, RS4 avant, evo 6, insignia, firebird, R34 skyline (all of those use V8 swap) nissan 300ZX seems to be also potential car to be high in a-class, in that car i actually take just picture what is really common thing when first build car with stock engine and after that without any other changes make engine swap.

https://xboxdvr.com/game...boss/screenshot/11579007
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:33:21 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
My first try with the Boneshaker on Elmsdon on Sea sprint in the wet, I was slightly slower than in the NSX '05. I didn't get the impression it was a super car which outclassed other good A class cars.

The tune you use is crucial with the Bone Shaker. Did you have the rally tyres? It can usually beat pretty much anything else in the wet, but the NSX is the closest to it in the wet of what I've tested.


It was a tune called Handling & Speed by SurPris3 Duck. I just removed it and I don't own any tyres other than the stock ones, so I guess it's those. There are better handling tunes available but I tried this one first because it had better performance stats. Even performance wise it isn't that impressive, I couldn't get up to much more than 170 except downhill (gearing was fine, it just couldn't pull any more) whereas the NSX can do 190. (I know a lot of the time that such speeds are moot, but sometimes you need all the speed you can get).

Rank: Racing Permit
#67 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 10:53:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
My first try with the Boneshaker on Elmsdon on Sea sprint in the wet, I was slightly slower than in the NSX '05. I didn't get the impression it was a super car which outclassed other good A class cars.

The tune you use is crucial with the Bone Shaker. Did you have the rally tyres? It can usually beat pretty much anything else in the wet, but the NSX is the closest to it in the wet of what I've tested.


It was a tune called Handling & Speed by SurPris3 Duck. I just removed it and I don't own any tyres other than the stock ones, so I guess it's those. There are better handling tunes available but I tried this one first because it had better performance stats. Even performance wise it isn't that impressive, I couldn't get up to much more than 170 except downhill (gearing was fine, it just couldn't pull any more) whereas the NSX can do 190. (I know a lot of the time that such speeds are moot, but sometimes you need all the speed you can get).



Top speed is definitely the one real weakness of the Bone Shaker. What makes it so difficult to beat is the combination of acceleration and stability, along with the ability to mount rally/snow tires in a class where nearly all other cars have to use stock or street/vintage tires to stay within PI limits. It understeers in low-speed turns, but as previously mentioned, it's an issue that can be corrected with judicious use of the handbrake to kick the rear out a bit and get the car pointed at the apex. Personally, I think the car's a little too stable--pretty much every other competitive car is a more enjoyable drive IMO, especially the Alfa TZ2--but the stability makes it easier to drive well.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#68 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:05:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iamthejarha Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
My first try with the Boneshaker on Elmsdon on Sea sprint in the wet, I was slightly slower than in the NSX '05. I didn't get the impression it was a super car which outclassed other good A class cars.

The tune you use is crucial with the Bone Shaker. Did you have the rally tyres? It can usually beat pretty much anything else in the wet, but the NSX is the closest to it in the wet of what I've tested.


It was a tune called Handling & Speed by SurPris3 Duck. I just removed it and I don't own any tyres other than the stock ones, so I guess it's those. There are better handling tunes available but I tried this one first because it had better performance stats. Even performance wise it isn't that impressive, I couldn't get up to much more than 170 except downhill (gearing was fine, it just couldn't pull any more) whereas the NSX can do 190. (I know a lot of the time that such speeds are moot, but sometimes you need all the speed you can get).



Top speed is definitely the one real weakness of the Bone Shaker. What makes it so difficult to beat is the combination of acceleration and stability, along with the ability to mount rally/snow tires in a class where nearly all other cars have to use stock or street/vintage tires to stay within PI limits. It understeers in low-speed turns, but as previously mentioned, it's an issue that can be corrected with judicious use of the handbrake to kick the rear out a bit and get the car pointed at the apex. Personally, I think the car's a little too stable--pretty much every other competitive car is a more enjoyable drive IMO, especially the Alfa TZ2--but the stability makes it easier to drive well.


Probably a silly question but should I be using rally tyres for wet road races or not?

I just did a ranked free-for-all with wet street races, with stock road tyres, using Don Joewon Song's tune and I came 2nd overall (including one race win), ahead of 3 other Bone Shakers (championship winner was a Ford Mustang 65). It drove well except for one of the freeroam rushes had lots of high speed long straight road sections where the low top speed really hurt me. I guess you can't have everything.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#69 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:11:24 PM(UTC)
So they give the Bone Shaker away with a live event, and I don't have XBox live so not fair.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#70 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:13:27 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
So they give the Bone Shaker away with a live event, and I don't have XBox live so not fair.


You can get 2 months' Xbox Live Gold for $2 / £2 at the moment.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:20:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post

Probably a silly question but should I be using rally tyres for wet road races or not?


I use allways in online rally tire tune and it's do well even at dry asphalt, at bamburgh
stock tires, no aero 55,5
Race tires, rear aero 55,5
Rally tires, rear aero 55,3 (softer tires help lots of those last corners and aggresive brakes helps those slowest corners)
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#72 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:30:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
It was a tune called Handling & Speed by SurPris3 Duck.

I've tried that one in the past, it's very slow, nearly 10 seconds off the pace for LFS.

I just did 3:17.3 with V12 SB's no aero tune, but it's 3 seconds off the pace for Lakehurst Woodland Scramble, so it's very much horses for courses and I'll have to test the different tunes on lots of courses. At least I have 2 Bone Shakers now, would have had 3 but someone beat me to one in the AH.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#73 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:41:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
It was a tune called Handling & Speed by SurPris3 Duck.

I've tried that one in the past, it's very slow, nearly 10 seconds off the pace for LFS.

I just did 3:17.3 with V12 SB's no aero tune, but it's 3 seconds off the pace for Lakehurst Woodland Scramble, so it's very much horses for courses and I'll have to test the different tunes on lots of courses. At least I have 2 Bone Shakers now, would have had 3 but someone beat me to one in the AH.


I guess right that you will beat my time, and there is definetly difference what tunes best in some tracks, that's why i pick my rally tune allways in online, it can handle every weather and surface and do better in freeroam rushes than those other tunes.

I have 3 bone shakers now, i was smart enough buy two of them when they was on forzathon shop.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#74 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 12:57:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AquaPainter168 Go to Quoted Post
So they give the Bone Shaker away with a live event, and I don't have XBox live so not fair.


You can get 2 months' Xbox Live Gold for $2 / £2 at the moment.


I don't like it Live, when they give it me Free I try to turn it off.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#75 Posted : Thursday, February 21, 2019 1:22:38 PM(UTC)
After the disbelief and shock that the developers had reintroduced this car as a new easy to obtain seasonal reward wore off without making any balance tweaks, I decided I might as well just embrace the inevitable and went back to testing new tunes for this car.

So, I was able to drop my lap time by 1.0s in my custom test lap and was able to reach a Lakehurst Forest Sprint time of 3:17.525, which blows out of the water any other car I have tested by around 1.5s, even speed based cars that should do better in this track.

I just can't believe the negligence of the Forza Horizon 4 developers to now make this car totally mainstream without any balance changes. I guess they have made it clear that all players need to embrace the improved Boneshaker Meta and get to work on their collection of preferably 3-4 of these OP wagons for A-S1 steet/road/dirt/cross-country. It just feels like Multiplayer has been neglected on what should and could be a complete and well rounded game. For me personally it just saps my will to play and sink time into testing new tunes when such an easily accessible and imbalanced car exists. PG really need to take a look at A class balance in general, and Dirt/cross-country across other tiers too.
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