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#201 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:43:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Quadro40k Go to Quoted Post
Here's some feedback in regards to locking threads, in particular in Community Support section.

It seems to be a common practice on this forum to lock threads "because no further discussion is necessary" or "because the issue has been fixed".

From my humble point of view it's not really the best practice and locking threads should be limited to minimal necessary, rather than "let's close everything, unless it's absolutely necessary to keep it open".

A common example is when someone has a problem, posts in community support, gets help and is happy. Thread is now closed, so it slowly sinks through the pages until one can only find it by searching specifically.

So nobody who might have similar problem can post "mate, my problem is exactly the same but I tried resetting my game and it didn't help, what am I doing wrong". Nobody can post "hey, I had the same issue but I solved it differently, here's how". Nobody will write "I had a support ticket about it, and here's the solution I got".

The thread will never become a 200 posts one for which a good samaritan eventually writes "Ultimate guide to your game crashing issues" with list of all known ways to resolve it (which might eventually migrate to support page).

Basically, while something good has been achieved in locked thread, it will never lead to creation of something better and will forever be a number of bits and bytes somewhere in database that nobody needs ever again.

And again, x100.

While I understand the whole ticketing thing, more often than not, another member of these forums have seen the issue and has the solution.

Not only is there a significant delay in tickets being answered (understandably since I am sure quite a few are being submitted), but when the only person who sees the solution is the one who submitted the ticket, then no one else who may be having the same issue know the answer and..... will need to submit their own ticket for the same issue.

This really slows down the whole process, leads to frustration on the part of the user, and causes even a bigger backlog in the ticketing.

So yes, the ticket system is an excellent tool, but so is allowing open discussion and commenting on issues by and among the members of these forums.
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#202 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2019 5:59:06 AM(UTC)
Regarding the locking of threads and responses regarding the "ANSWERED" format, all have really good points.

In regards to "ANSWERED" I'm following a format which I was advised. There will be upcoming changes to the Support forum (hence the change in name) but I am not too sure when this will happen and what exactly will happen. Unfortunately I'm not in charge of that.

Following this, I'm totally understanding the need for 'resolution' and allowing other forum users to suggest their work-arounds or even answers or fixes.
Which I think is a very good point and maybe I can figure some way inwhich I could collect all the user information in one place. However, I am yet to come up with an idea, this could potentially be one post.
Ideally the solution would be to keep all threads unlocked, but that would depending on the format of the support forums moving forward.

But at the same time, getting work-around/fixes from the community within forum posts means to trust you all with posting relevant answers (so a fix/discussion) rather than anything else.
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#203 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2019 6:11:18 AM(UTC)
Quote:
But at the same time, getting work-around/fixes from the community within forum posts means to trust you all with posting relevant answers (so a fix/discussion) rather than anything else.


Oh my...

Look, there will definitely be off topic, side discussions, thread branching, incorrect advises, uneducated opinions and host of other things in those threads.

As long as they don't violate the rules - let them be. That's called "community interaction", that's people talking to each other online, as they normally do in the forums.

The legit reason for locking the thread is really either rules violation or specific circumstances on designated threads (e.g. contest submissions that are being closed for voting and stuff like that). If neither of those is in place, there's never a need to lock the thread.

And the correct answer can be marked in some way, I'll leave it to you and mods to figure out exactly how as you know better the technicalities of this forum's engine.

There's no such thing as "no further discussion needed" on the online forum, unless you want it to be a mirror of heavily sanitized support page. But then let's delete any post that doesn't represent "exact and precise answer to original post".

Following the rule advised is a good thing but I'm sure whoever imposed that rule is an actual human being that can be talked to and might even hear the voice of reason to add flexibility to the rule.
PTG Quadro40k



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#204 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2019 6:24:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Quadro40k Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
But at the same time, getting work-around/fixes from the community within forum posts means to trust you all with posting relevant answers (so a fix/discussion) rather than anything else.


Oh my...

Look, there will definitely be off topic, side discussions, thread branching, incorrect advises, uneducated opinions and host of other things in those threads.

As long as they don't violate the rules - let them be. That's called "community interaction", that's people talking to each other online, as they normally do in the forums.

The legit reason for locking the thread is really either rules violation or specific circumstances on designated threads (e.g. contest submissions that are being closed for voting and stuff like that). If neither of those is in place, there's never a need to lock the thread.

And the correct answer can be marked in some way, I'll leave it to you and mods to figure out exactly how as you know better the technicalities of this forum's engine.

There's no such thing as "no further discussion needed" on the online forum, unless you want it to be a mirror of heavily sanitized support page. But then let's delete any post that doesn't represent "exact and precise answer to original post".

Following the rule advised is a good thing but I'm sure whoever imposed that rule is an actual human being that can be talked to and might even hear the voice of reason to add flexibility to the rule.

Really good point, thanks.
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#205 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2019 7:20:24 AM(UTC)
I think the only thing you've managed to to do on this forum RetroKrystal is install mob rule. Trying to appease a relatively small number of people with an agenda, has led to even louder rants and more outlandish demands. It's the only forum I know where users even seem to be setting out their own rules for moderation.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 27, 2019 7:21:08 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#206 Posted : Wednesday, February 27, 2019 9:45:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Briisace Go to Quoted Post
I think the only thing you've managed to to do on this forum RetroKrystal is install mob rule. Trying to appease a relatively small number of people with an agenda, has led to even louder rants and more outlandish demands. It's the only forum I know where users even seem to be setting out their own rules for moderation.


Can you clarify what agenda is in play and outlandish demands are being made, and how mob rule is being installed? RetroKrystal asked how transparency could be improved, and one of the areas that's had transparency issues is related to moderation in terms of a large number of threads continuing to be arbitrarily locked with no clear forum rule violation and no explanation.

If I'm asking for anything, it's that the written forum rules be updated to reflect the actual criteria used to determine if action is to be taken against a post/thread, that these rules be applied consistently, and that when action is taken, a clear reason is given even if it's patently obvious (for example, quote the written rule that's being applied). Apparently negativity, promoting negative discussion and submitting feedback/bug reports (which should now be submitted as tickets, and previously were directed to the forzafb email) are all now valid reasons to lock threads, but these new criteria are mentioned nowhere in the forum rules. On top of that, they're applied relatively inconsistently across threads in general with two very similar threads getting very different treatment in many cases, making locking events feel random and arbitrary, especially if no explanation is given.

If negativity and giving feedback/bug reports are now grounds for locking threads, then give examples in the forum rules of content that violates these rules in a post so the player can either reformat it appropriately or send it via a ticket, and the moderators can refer back to it as needed when enforcing the rules. To be clear, I don't personally agree with either of these reasons for locking threads, but I also realize that the forums are not a democracy and that as a forum user, the conditions of me using the forum are following the rules put in place by the forum owners. However, I do agree with Quadro40k that threads should only ever be locked for rules violations or thread-specific circumstances, so these rules need to be made clear to the community.

I know for myself all I really want is a forum where I can openly discuss all aspects of the game, positive and negative, in a civil manner without worrying about breaking some invisible subjective rule and having discussion shut down prematurely, or having excellent threads locked because "no further discussion is necessary", making that content much harder to find in the future if it isn't stickied.

Edited by user Wednesday, February 27, 2019 11:52:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Clarity

Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#207 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2019 12:26:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Briisace Go to Quoted Post
I think the only thing you've managed to to do on this forum RetroKrystal is install mob rule. Trying to appease a relatively small number of people with an agenda, has led to even louder rants and more outlandish demands. It's the only forum I know where users even seem to be setting out their own rules for moderation.


Thank you for your constructive and reasonable feedback. Its content and form will obviously encourage relevant parties to immediately review their actions and adjust behavior to your liking.

Please keep it up, we really need more of such open, detailed and positive input from you.
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#208 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2019 6:16:25 AM(UTC)
^^ What a simply brilliant response, Quadro40k.
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#209 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2019 10:45:08 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post
You're best forwarding feedback like this to @NitroGlitter as unfortunately I can't edit the Known Issues or control the support page. I have just been told to direct everyone who needs help to the support page as it's a more appropriate place & also helps us to track or ask information which may not need to be public on a forum. (I do answer and respond to all the "suggestion & feedback" tickets though.) However, if I can, I'll bring up this in future discussions regarding the support page.


I think this is one of the biggest problems, as the current support ticket system and the support pages in general are horrendous, and seemingly have been designed to be as opaque as possible. It's not exactly a pleasant experience to log a ticket, and beyond the email you get sent saying that "We are currently experiencing a high volume of tickets", that's the total extent of the visibility you have of what's happening to that ticket, until you get (in my experience, at least) a reply back several weeks later asking whether you're still experiencing the issue, before the ticket gets closed regardless of your answer. If you're lucky, they'll throw some in-game credits at you.

I even took the time out to fill in the customer satisfaction survery after my tickets were closed, but I'm assuming those answers go into a black hole somewhere, as I heard nothing further from that, either.

Surely the support system should be tied into your Xbox ID and you should be able to track, amend, delete, etc any support requests you have open? It'd be lovely to see what place in the queue the ticket is as well, so you have a chance of knowing how long it's going to be before someone looks at it? I've used and administered Zendesk systems in the past, and they can be *incredibly* powerful if some effort is put into setting them up to work for you, rather than what appears to be a pretty vanilla out-of-the-box setup that Forza uses for it's support desk.

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#210 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2019 2:27:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post

Really good point, thanks.


Just look at this Krystal:



This is so, so bad as everyone knows that "Answered" means "Open a ticket". Changing this is a really, really quick fix, a matter of one team meeting or single email.
PTG Quadro40k



My Youtube Channel
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#211 Posted : Thursday, February 28, 2019 2:58:17 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Quadro40k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RetroKrystal Go to Quoted Post

Really good point, thanks.


Just look at this Krystal:



This is so, so bad as everyone knows that "Answered" means "Open a ticket". Changing this is a really, really quick fix, a matter of one team meeting or single email.


What's the issue there
They have been marked answered..not solved
If someone wants official help they need to open a ticket
Some issues need official help
Posting in the "community support" forum wont get it..just help from others on the forum

Not sure how long it should take for people to know this
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#212 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 12:42:27 AM(UTC)
Quote:
What's the issue there
They have been marked answered..not solved


I'm pretty sure I've explained that just a few posts before but I don't mind repeating.

ANSWERED mark on the thread creates an expectation that thread contains a solution, even though it doesn't say SOLVED, so opening the thread and not finding a solution there aggravates the situation for no reason at all, stimulates emotional response and creates tension where none is needed.

In the end of the day, the posts count next to the thread already gives an indication that some kind of an answer has been given, it doesn't need extra marker on it. A good question to ask is "what is the ANSWERED mark for" and "How does it make communication better". At the moment it doesn't seem to serve its purpose or benefit anyone in the process, apart from maybe a mod/support rep clearly seeing "I already ticked the open case box on this thread".

There's a commonly used method in the internet for "ask a question/help me" forums, where original poster can mark a reply as "Accepted Answer" and that's exactly the point when his/her thread gets ANSWERED or SOLVED tag. Using same tag without underlying mechanic for answer acceptance creates confusion and frustration, which are exactly two things hampering any progress with communication and transparency.
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My Youtube Channel
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#213 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 1:43:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Quadro40k Go to Quoted Post
Quote:
What's the issue there
They have been marked answered..not solved


I'm pretty sure I've explained that just a few posts before but I don't mind repeating.

ANSWERED mark on the thread creates an expectation that thread contains a solution, even though it doesn't say SOLVED, so opening the thread and not finding a solution there aggravates the situation for no reason at all, stimulates emotional response and creates tension where none is needed.

In the end of the day, the posts count next to the thread already gives an indication that some kind of an answer has been given, it doesn't need extra marker on it. A good question to ask is "what is the ANSWERED mark for" and "How does it make communication better". At the moment it doesn't seem to serve its purpose or benefit anyone in the process, apart from maybe a mod/support rep clearly seeing "I already ticked the open case box on this thread".

There's a commonly used method in the internet for "ask a question/help me" forums, where original poster can mark a reply as "Accepted Answer" and that's exactly the point when his/her thread gets ANSWERED or SOLVED tag. Using same tag without underlying mechanic for answer acceptance creates confusion and frustration, which are exactly two things hampering any progress with communication and transparency.


This explains it, thanks.

Relating to the support forum, this is the process in which the support team want to make moving forward.
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#214 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 8:23:55 AM(UTC)
Retro, maybe nitro glitter should open topic like this abaout support page, as many of us is notice support is not that great comminucate with players good example abaout this when january patch broke race banners that they didint show amount of laps, so i send ticket abaout that, first i get typical "I am looking into this for you and will get back to you as soon as I have more information." one week later i got email "do you still have this problem" (why this system even is there, you send ticket and week later you get email and if dont answer in that ticket will be "solved" even problem is still there). After letting support know that race banners still dont work i got "We are currently looking into this and your ticket will be added to our investigation. I am marking this ticket "On Hold" and we will send out an announcement to the Community when we have a resolution."

Why we get generic "i will get back to you when have more information" and still get week later email that need to answer so that ticket dont close. And we got "we let community to know when we have fix" that would be great if that would be case but it's not, last month patch fix this problem, was that mentioned in patch note? No. Is support made nothing abaout that ticket after that patch? No. And overall it feels that support mostly just ignore tickets, i have still ticket open that i made before holidays, that's almost 2,5 months ago!
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#215 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 8:40:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
And overall it feels that support mostly just ignore tickets, i have still ticket open that i made before holidays, that's almost 2,5 months ago!


Nah mate, what it looks like is support is heavily understaffed and is therefore swamped with tickets.
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#216 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 8:43:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
Retro, maybe nitro glitter should open topic like this abaout support page


You're more than welcome to send NitroGlitter this feedback, she does have an account here on the forum.

I have passed message that there may need to be more communication regarding the future of the support forum and support page previously but I am unsure if this has lead to any changes as that it under NitroGlitter and the support team to discuss.

In terms of the response time, we are aware that it is too long and the support team are working hard to reduce this.
We appreciate your patience.
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#217 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 8:57:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Quadro40k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
And overall it feels that support mostly just ignore tickets, i have still ticket open that i made before holidays, that's almost 2,5 months ago!


Nah mate, what it looks like is support is heavily understaffed and is therefore swamped with tickets.


Yeah definetly understaffed, but still i think some tickets gets ignored, like that over 2months old ticket it was orginal assigned as "forza support" and when i few days ago send message asking is this gonna get solved then next day that ticket was assigned to next person, that is not even big problem but at this point im more annoyed lack of communication than i am that actual problem.
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#218 Posted : Friday, March 1, 2019 9:06:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Quadro40k Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
And overall it feels that support mostly just ignore tickets, i have still ticket open that i made before holidays, that's almost 2,5 months ago!


Nah mate, what it looks like is support is heavily understaffed and is therefore swamped with tickets.


Yeah definetly understaffed, but still i think some tickets gets ignored, like that over 2months old ticket it was orginal assigned as "forza support" and when i few days ago send message asking is this gonna get solved then next day that ticket was assigned to next person, that is not even big problem but at this point im more annoyed lack of communication than i am that actual problem.


Every ticket is assigned to the same support person. This person then distributes and assigns to the rleevant person within that department. E.g Motorsport and Horizon ticket are separate, enforcement is another person, and Suggestions & Feedback is myself.

Yes, the support team is understaffed for the influx of traffic which we are receiving. We have received more tickets than expected. There was someone hired to help back in December, so hopefully over time this will answer more tickets and reduce the response time.

But as mentioned --

Moving forward all support questions should be either directed to NitroGlitter or the support forums.
Unfortunately the support system isn't under my control and I can't help or answer questions as accurately as I'd like and I'd rather you get an answer from the support team themselves. Especially as they may be able to explain the support process better.

I have asked for the support system to be communicated better and can assume that this is currently being discussed as there is future plans with the support forum & support page.

Due to all this, please direct all further support questions here.
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#219 Posted : Saturday, March 2, 2019 6:48:16 AM(UTC)
So what's the holdup on getting a developer roadmap, or any type of intended features list.?
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#220 Posted : Saturday, March 2, 2019 1:22:17 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Granola Avenger Go to Quoted Post
So what's the holdup on getting a developer roadmap, or any type of intended features list.?


when were we ever promised one
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#221 Posted : Saturday, March 2, 2019 2:20:02 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Granola Avenger Go to Quoted Post
So what's the holdup on getting a developer roadmap, or any type of intended features list.?


when were we ever promised one


Like every other reasonable request, it's been met with "were looking into it" never said it was promised.

Edit##
I was pretty sure retrokrystal had acknowledged this idea before, and I looked for the comment. It is in fact on the 1st page of this very thread where she mentions it's something they're looking into. From "about a month ago"

Edited by user Saturday, March 2, 2019 2:31:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#222 Posted : Saturday, March 2, 2019 4:50:30 PM(UTC)
Well, to be fair on roadmap, that takes a bit more time to put together because is a lot of stuff on the go. What can you say, what cant you, what doesnt' have a set time known.

There has been a significant uptick in activity and information though over the past month. Surprising and noticeable. Keep at it Forza staff, it just keeps making things better.

Edited by user Saturday, March 2, 2019 4:51:12 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#223 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2019 1:27:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Granola Avenger Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Granola Avenger Go to Quoted Post
So what's the holdup on getting a developer roadmap, or any type of intended features list.?


when were we ever promised one


Like every other reasonable request, it's been met with "were looking into it" never said it was promised.

Edit##
I was pretty sure retrokrystal had acknowledged this idea before, and I looked for the comment. It is in fact on the 1st page of this very thread where she mentions it's something they're looking into. From "about a month ago"


Yes, this is something I am constantly discussing.

Our plans change constantly so to put together a accurate roadmap can be quite challenging. However, I will chase up into looking into this again.

In terms of the 'intended features list' and 'top 5' similarity. I'm gathering all the information currently, and don't want to put out these until I have everything that everyone has mentioned so it can be a representation or as many people as possible.
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#224 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2019 7:46:57 AM(UTC)
With the Monthly stream this Friday, I think it could be one of the most important streams for discussing many of the issues. Doesnt need to be a big section, but a few minutes just to comment on main issues. Let us know what you are also dissatisfied with and want to work on. Those bigger work load ones where no specific deadline can be given but are in progress.

Edit: And part of that can be to also help players understand the development cycle, why changes cannot be easy hotfixes. The testing, balancing, bugfix, etc.

Edited by user Monday, March 4, 2019 7:53:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#225 Posted : Monday, March 4, 2019 10:28:37 AM(UTC)
I agree with Vaporisor on this one, the last stream was completely wasted by showing 45+ minutes of you playing bits of the game that have essentially been there since day one.

In the interests of improving your communication with the players, and being more transparent, I implore you to tell us why things are taking so long to improve with the online part of the game, tell use why it's so difficult to make the changes we're all requesting, etc etc.

I hung around in the Mixer chat after the last stream for about 5 minutes, and extracted more information from FreelancePolice (a producer at Playground) in that time than in the entirety of the last two streams. Even if you only schedule in 5 minutes of the stream for this kind of thing, many of use would definitely appreciate it. At the moment, it almost seems like you're all being purposefully opaque.

I'd also suggest a proper Q&A session, get an intern to grab the 5 or 10 most asked questions via Twitter or in stream chat, and actually get people who can answer those questions on stream.
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