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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1651 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 1:16:30 PM(UTC)
So how does the points system work in team Online Adventure? I am kinda new to it, but I saw a Star Card for level 10 and thought to myself, it shouldn't be difficult. I got as high as 11, but now it seems impossible to progress.

If my team loses, I lose alot of points. When my team wins, I get a small amount of points. What the heck kinda system is this?

Even if your team loses, shouldn't it be based on how well you did? More than half the time, I'll come in 3rd or 4th over my teammates. Shouldn't that count for something? Does place not matter overall? Many teams have 1 or 2 players that quit or are just not as good. But here I am losing all the points I gained to be stuck in this loop of nonsense.

How has this not been patched by Playground Games since its inception? Are the other modes easier to progress like Solo Adventure?

Edited by user Monday, September 2, 2019 1:17:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1652 Posted : Monday, September 2, 2019 4:36:34 PM(UTC)
This game is such a mess. How am I supposed to feel after winning the lobby but getting a blank screen before the final standings show? Ugh I swear each time I start to feel better, I get pulled back into misery
Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track

Check me out on Mixer! www.mixer.com/dareocharmer
Rank: Driver's Permit
#1653 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 9:24:51 AM(UTC)
DaReo, they took your money. What else do you want? Do you want the game to work? Neah. Do you want to feel good after a race? Neah. Do you want to press ALT+F4? Yes you do.
We are wasting our time here. No one cares.
The game is not a mess, is completely **** Is just a word of 4 characters.
Rank: Racing Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#1654 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:29:33 AM(UTC)
I've been quiet in this forum for a long time now.., but i have to share my frustration with how this "True Skill" system rewards points: I haven't played Online Adventure for a long time as well, until now.., to test how "fruitful" it possibly is after the "rebalancing" of the Ranks.

So:
I win 3 Adventures.., i get +6; +6; & +7.., but lose once the BAM!!! -12 points...

...Please tell me, Playground Games, how is it ever Enjoyable when u INTENTIONALLY keep driving me away from "your" game..?
"your".., meaning You have all the fun programming this game to Frustrate people, more than providing enjoyment of a system that just works, not just thumb-suck stats on "how good one is" at racing. How do You think it feels when we put so much time into this game, when we end up feeling it was a fruitless encounter, WAISTING our time playing Multiplayer?
...I wonder if You even care, if You drive people away that luv/luv'd the Horizon Title
My Forza Timeline:
•FH3-Start my Forza Career
•FH2-My hunger for more Horizon
•FM5-Free with XB Live Gold
•FH4-End my Forza Career
•FM6-Free with XB Live Gold
Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#1655 Posted : Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:06:10 PM(UTC)
Other than moving everyone up a few ranks so more people get the Star Card achievement, they've done absolutely nothing to fix ranked adventures. You can still come in second, beat 10 other drivers and lose points. You can still win team ranked adventure and LOSE points. People are getting disconnected left and right and losing points in the process to no fault of their own. You can beat a Grandmaster in series of five races in CC/Dirt adventure, but if they leave just before the last race ends, you're not going to get ANY points for that, it's like you're getting punished that others rage quit or something.

This game has by far the worst multiplayer experience that I've seen in two decades of gaming. Turn10 and Playground Games should be ashamed of themselves, but now that they got our money, they literally don't care and that's a fact. Just try writing about it on forums or sending them a ticket, it keeps getting ignored. Vote with your wallets people, if you already want to buy FM7, FH5 etc - wait for a proper sale, don't pay $60 and more because they don't deserve that money.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 3, 2019 10:08:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#1656 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 6:55:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AceMuciferos Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, I forgot about the rain. 95% of ranked races are on rain. Why the percent is not 50-50? It rains in the souls and in the hearts of the creators of this game? Are you said? Do you need a hug?
An S2 race on rain is pool. All cars are like balls.
As Tilo38 says, I hope another company will take the opportunity and make us happy.

P.S. At least make this game free. The money you charge for it is simply scum.


The rain is also the sole reason why the boneshaker is so busted and why there's only a handful of top tier S2 cars.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#1657 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 8:52:18 AM(UTC)
...after a hard day, u come home, want to relax & do a few MP races, only to be forced to cut grass by being thrown into Cross Country after Cross Country & Dirt Lobbies, with Their so-called "Best Feature" of FH4 -yes.., Freeroam Rush.

I like Cross Country in this game.., but when it is continuously being force-fed like this, it begins to give me indigestion.., & this during a Summer Season, when one wants to enjoy the roads more, not just in Single Player (something that should've featured mostly during Autumn & Winter Season rather)... as if having a hard day (IRL) isn't enuf, FH4 has to compound the negativity, by not giving us the option to play Ranked MP in whatever Lobbies we prefer (& this is almost a Whole Year Later)...
Sorry, i am not interested in playing MP where there is No Indication of Progress possible (Unranked)
My Forza Timeline:
•FH3-Start my Forza Career
•FH2-My hunger for more Horizon
•FM5-Free with XB Live Gold
•FH4-End my Forza Career
•FM6-Free with XB Live Gold
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1658 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 2:18:38 PM(UTC)
I only do cross country and dirt. If I could make only those rooms come up that would be nice. Sometimes I get 4 straight queues of road racing. 2 out of 3 is a little too short. Less opportunity for error and any tiny mistake will cost you dearly on rank
Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track

Check me out on Mixer! www.mixer.com/dareocharmer
Rank: Racing Permit
#1659 Posted : Wednesday, September 4, 2019 10:41:54 PM(UTC)
i prefer getting (for example...) a drip-feeding +6 points in the short road races, than getting the same amount after the grueling 20 or 25mins of lawnmowing lunacy.

i find it disgusting that even when one finishes on the podium in all the races, one gets slapped in the face with the pathetic points that the "True Skill" system thinks one's worth (regardless of whether one's team loses, or not).., even worse when placing 1st in most races...
then again, i suppose the Matchmaking system is to be blamed, for placing a person in lobbies that is not balanced.., for example: placing a person with a plethora of unranked players.
My Forza Timeline:
•FH3-Start my Forza Career
•FH2-My hunger for more Horizon
•FM5-Free with XB Live Gold
•FH4-End my Forza Career
•FM6-Free with XB Live Gold
Rank: Driver's Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#1660 Posted : Saturday, September 7, 2019 9:27:02 AM(UTC)
The current team rank game is not a normal rule.
Anyone who wants to raise a score always has 20 ranks in the game.
Rank 20 is forced to end the game.
His goal is to lower the average of the team.
As a result, high scores can be maintained at all times, including the grandmasters belonging to the team, and if the team that scores the loss loses points by minimizing the deduction points.
This problem is how the game was released and occurred and is still in use.
But PG is not taking any action.
PG said you like to hear from users.
How long will you listen?
How long will you create a victim?
Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#1661 Posted : Sunday, September 8, 2019 8:28:48 AM(UTC)
i love racing, im not great at it but i still love it. PUH-LEASE just make it all NON-COLLISION, or give a NON-COLLISION option for ALL online racing, team racing & free for all.

every other race there is a rammer, just for no reason ramming everyone off the course. are we just not supposed to try and pass anyone? i only race with heavy cars now to try and minimize these attacks from the 5% of fun-loving rammers. how can we test our cars & tunes when we keep getting rammed out of the flags? am i supposed to become a rammer and get them before they get me?

is this wreckfest or Forza Horizon 4? This game is AWESOME, i love it, i just think alot of us are sick of the bad players.

Please, NON-COLLISION option for ALL racing (not just Custom Adventure). thank you.

EDIT:: so ive been playing ranked for the past 9 hrs straight and NOT ONE player rammed me (made it to lvl 11 freeroam)... in quickplay adventure ramming is everywhere. today is the 1st day ive really cracked out on ranked. i like the update on that.

Edited by user Sunday, September 8, 2019 5:17:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#1662 Posted : Sunday, September 8, 2019 4:03:10 PM(UTC)
Im new to these forums so firstly, hello all. These last couple days I have been stalking the forums to see if anyone has been frustrated with this game just as I have. Its all stemming from Free roam rush. I played forza 4 (loved it), stepped away for a few years and came back to Horizon 3 so the races between events is nothing new to me, I actually enjoyed them. It was a great way to see the map, explore new routes, or just mess with the guy who spent the whole last race ramming you without it getting in the way of actual racing. Seeing that Horizon 4 came out I was pretty excited, only to have my excitement diminished one "DNF" at a time

Just starting in a new forza game hasn't really been an issue to me, Ive always been able to pick up a car, get a few races in, accumulate money, jump on to a better car, race more and progress like that. But this game mode has pretty much stopped me in my tracks. To already be down in terms of performance when it comes out to my first few cars, making my way through off road races and trying to keep up is hard enough being that I dont have anything really suited for that yet. Throwing in the fact that now I have to drive over mountains, through lakes, and crash through obstacles I can never keep up and its VERY discouraging.

Being that there are 5 events (Ive seen it several ties so im assuming) having it split with 3 races being off road/street and then throwing in 2 rush races just kills my desire to play. Doing the best with what I have right now, I can usually do okay in that race modes, if at the very least finish the races. But throwing in the rush races just kills the whole event for me. Ive crashed through multiple lakes or lines of bushes only to hit a house or tree that makes me throw the controller to the side multiple times now.

Sorry to rant this much but Ive just hit my 5th tree in one online match and I just had to let my frustration out. Im wondering is anyone having as many problems as me? Is there a way to maybe not have to play rush, or at the very least a way to live with this game mode? Thanks for the help.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#1663 Posted : Sunday, September 8, 2019 7:18:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Sendo Tenshi Go to Quoted Post
So how does the points system work in team Online Adventure?

It doesn't. The points system is so incredibly broken and bugged that we'd be better off without even having a ranked mode in the first place.

Originally Posted by: HarvantesTwitch Go to Quoted Post
The current team rank game is not a normal rule.
Anyone who wants to raise a score always has 20 ranks in the game.
Rank 20 is forced to end the game.
His goal is to lower the average of the team.
As a result, high scores can be maintained at all times, including the grandmasters belonging to the team, and if the team that scores the loss loses points by minimizing the deduction points.

I've got the "pleasure" of experiencing this multiple times today. It's insane how easy it is to abuse the current scoring system, they need to revert the change where leavers don't give points to opponents because this is getting out of hand now. Grandmasters paired with league 20 drivers who will leave as soon as GMs are in danger of losing races/adventures, it makes no sense. It's like my team is getting punished for their team having people rage quit and/or trying to abuse the system.

Originally Posted by: dabre101 Go to Quoted Post
i prefer getting (for example...) a drip-feeding +6 points in the short road races, than getting the same amount after the grueling 20 or 25mins of lawnmowing lunacy.

i find it disgusting that even when one finishes on the podium in all the races, one gets slapped in the face with the pathetic points that the "True Skill" system thinks one's worth (regardless of whether one's team loses, or not).., even worse when placing 1st in most races...
then again, i suppose the Matchmaking system is to be blamed, for placing a person in lobbies that is not balanced.., for example: placing a person with a plethora of unranked players.

There is NO matchmaking system. You can go up against four Grandmasters in the same lobby just like you can go up against five unranked players regardless of what your own rank or your teammates' rank is. And I agree about the +6 points part, it's actually both hilarious and sad at the same time how few points you can get for doing a long B class five races adventure, but you can lose 150 points after two short S2 road class races. Developers put absolutely no thought and time into ranked game mode and you can already see that after a few hours of online gameplay.

Originally Posted by: THE PHAT WAFFLE Go to Quoted Post
i love racing, im not great at it but i still love it. PUH-LEASE just make it all NON-COLLISION, or give a NON-COLLISION option for ALL online racing, team racing & free for all.

I think a good compromise would be to have a few adventures that have colissions turned off. This way everyone would get to race in both collision and no-collision races and would need to learn both how to drive cleanly and how to avoid getting slammed into the wall and penalized to no fault of your own.

Speaking of adventures, can we finally get some new tracks? Maybe even B class road? How about adding two more races to road/street class since those tend to be really short in S1 and S2 classes. Oh man, there are so many little things that could be done to make this game far more enjoyable and fresh, but it's absolutely incredible how little effort is currently being put into it. :(

Edited by user Sunday, September 8, 2019 7:28:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#1664 Posted : Monday, September 9, 2019 5:16:21 AM(UTC)
Did I miss an update/patch news item talking about allocation of points in team events, at least involving AI? (haven't tested with PvP)

I could have completely misread the screens (though I honestly don't think I did):
During the trial in the third round, 2 of the players dropped/disconnected, but the player team won because the drivatars didn't get points for "beating" those players who dropped out.
At the end of the race I thought we were going to lose, as normally the drivatars each get 100 pts per dropped player by default often making it harder to win as a team, however this time the drivatars only got points for players still in the game.

Is that new behaviour, did I miss an update chat about it, or was it a freak accident that I should just be grateful for? :)
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#1665 Posted : Monday, September 9, 2019 10:20:06 PM(UTC)
Yes, they changed this a few updates ago, think it was series 9 or 10? I tried to find it a while ago but don't think it was documented in patch notes. But yeah, this works great in Trial events and makes it a whole lot easier, but the main problem here is that they also implemented this change to unranked & ranked online races as well.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1666 Posted : Wednesday, September 11, 2019 2:18:56 AM(UTC)
WHY do points need to be deducted in Online Ranked Adventure..?

Why do we need to get Ranked Down, when our Drivatar Levels never gets demoted? (i know it's not the same thing, so don't point out the obvious)

What is the Point of reaching GM (for instance) or any other level & not being able to have that Title Permanently etched next to our GT's?
...i mean, the GM's only need to play ONE Ranked Adventure anyway, to keep their Title.
I would understand it, if we had a clear-cut list using Simple Maths identifying how points are allocated or taken away based on personal performance

...but then again, why should points be taken away when the Points System & Matchmaking System makes it terribly tough & excruciatingly long for the Average Player to reach GM Status?
...i mean, don't You think every Forza Horizon faithful fan, that prefers spending most of their time in Ranked Adventure, would like to reach that point Eventually? How long does the Points Sytem & Matchmaking System expect us to keep playing this mode/feature of Horizon, before we move on to the next mode/feature/Title (or whatever else we prefer playing)?

I've reached Platinum Star Status in FH3.., i can truly say that i've reached the Pinnacle in it, which give me a certain sense of satisfaction... I am not aiming for Drivatar Star Level 10, because i feel that progress towards it feels ridiculously slowed down to reach it in this Title, so i am content with whatever it is now...
My Forza Timeline:
•FH3-Start my Forza Career
•FH2-My hunger for more Horizon
•FM5-Free with XB Live Gold
•FH4-End my Forza Career
•FM6-Free with XB Live Gold
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#1667 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 1:50:44 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: dabre101 Go to Quoted Post
WHY do points need to be deducted in Online Ranked Adventure..?

Why do we need to get Ranked Down, when our Drivatar Levels never gets demoted? (i know it's not the same thing, so don't point out the obvious)

What is the Point of reaching GM (for instance) or any other level & not being able to have that Title Permanently etched next to our GT's?
...i mean, the GM's only need to play ONE Ranked Adventure anyway, to keep their Title.
I would understand it, if we had a clear-cut list using Simple Maths identifying how points are allocated or taken away based on personal performance

...but then again, why should points be taken away when the Points System & Matchmaking System makes it terribly tough & excruciatingly long for the Average Player to reach GM Status?
...i mean, don't You think every Forza Horizon faithful fan, that prefers spending most of their time in Ranked Adventure, would like to reach that point Eventually? How long does the Points Sytem & Matchmaking System expect us to keep playing this mode/feature of Horizon, before we move on to the next mode/feature/Title (or whatever else we prefer playing)?

I've reached Platinum Star Status in FH3.., i can truly say that i've reached the Pinnacle in it, which give me a certain sense of satisfaction... I am not aiming for Drivatar Star Level 10, because i feel that progress towards it feels ridiculously slowed down to reach it in this Title, so i am content with whatever it is now...


GM was never intended to be reached by "the average player". With a working matchmaking, True Skill system, timed seasons (3 months until reset or whatever) and either ghosted racing or regulated races it would've been a good intention.
With neither of those it's the boring & frustrating grind we face today. With a worthless GM title because the whole process is widely open for abuses. I've raced against guys who spammed their GM phrase and they would not stand a chance against the Rivals leaders. In fact, they got absolutely slaughtered in our custom ghost lobbies.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#1668 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 8:00:20 AM(UTC)
What really amazes me is after the reworking, some people are still league 20. That should be impossible but they are obviously quitting out of the rooms, more than likely on purpose to boost their teammates.
Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track

Check me out on Mixer! www.mixer.com/dareocharmer
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#1669 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 6:14:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DaReoCharmer Go to Quoted Post
This game is such a mess...Ugh, I swear each time I start to feel better, I get pulled back into misery.


This. 🏆
I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1670 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 6:29:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: dabre101 Go to Quoted Post
...after a hard day, u come home, want to relax & do a few MP races, only to be forced to cut grass by being thrown into Cross Country after Cross Country & Dirt Lobbies, with Their so-called "Best Feature" of FH4 -yes.., Freeroam Rush.

I like Cross Country in this game.., but when it is continuously being force-fed like this, it begins to give me indigestion.., & this during a Summer Season, when one wants to enjoy the roads more, not just in Single Player (something that should've featured mostly during Autumn & Winter Season rather)... as if having a hard day (IRL) isn't enuf, FH4 has to compound the negativity, by not giving us the option to play Ranked MP in whatever Lobbies we prefer (& this is almost a Whole Year Later)...
Sorry, i am not interested in playing MP where there is No Indication of Progress possible (Unranked)


I hear and share in your frustration, but it baffles me when I read how you and others complaining the same thing in getting XC and Dirt over and over again; for me, it's the opposite and I get S2 Road/Street over and over and over again - I would KILL for all that off-road you keep seeing, and I'll take that Freeroam Rush off your hands, too. Maybe we should trade games 🤷🏻‍♂️
I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1671 Posted : Friday, September 13, 2019 6:35:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DaReoCharmer Go to Quoted Post
I only do cross country and dirt. If I could make only those rooms come up that would be nice. Sometimes I get 4 straight queues of road racing. 2 out of 3 is a little too short. Less opportunity for error and any tiny mistake will cost you dearly on rank


Again, ...this! 🏆

It's like as soon as you get into a car and get comfortable with it, it's over and now selecting something else.
I have a vocabulary and I don’t apologize for it.
#Rivals #OpenClasss #LowerClasses #AMCPacerX
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1672 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 7:20:36 AM(UTC)
Played a bit of FFA this weekend for the first time in a while. I was pleasantly surprised how little I’ve been rammed or nudged into side walls. Maybe I’ve just been lucky but has there been some improvement in player behaviour?

My points progress has been very slow though. At FFA I’m only at Rank 6 but I seem to be the highest ranked in most races. I’ve had a couple of GM/Rank 1s (who I haven’t beaten) but no one ranked 2-5. Think I’ve moved up about 50 points in about 10 events, including losing quite a few points in B class dirt events. Have had to bite the bullet and make sure I have a decent tune on a Track Tor as I definitely can’t beat them so have had to join them! So depressing as I used to really enjoy driving my Ford Roadster in B class.

Also managed to drive what can safely be described as my worst race in a long long time. Won the first two events in A class street and had a 12 point lead. Somehow managed to roll my Boneshaker within the first 30 seconds, got back up to fourth only to miss a checkpoint and drop to last again, then proceeded to clatter into a couple of walls to really compound the issue. Managed to finish 10th out of 11 which may be the worst result I’ve ever had in a Boneshaker! Definitely the biggest lead I’ve ever thrown away in one race!
Rank: Racing Permit
#1673 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 9:37:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Rayne SE Go to Quoted Post
GM was never intended to be reached by "the average player"


...so it's totally fine for the "average player" to have a 50/50 win-loss ratio & be kept in one Rank ALL SERIES LONG due to this Terrible MP System? ...so it's fine for us to play ±80-100 time-consuming "adventures" in one Series/Month for instance & getting nowhere?

I'm Sorry.., but that just shows how thrilled Playground Games is, for us to waste our time...
PS: don't tell me that @least we get Series Rewards, rewards that mean Absolutely Nothing @ this point in this game
My Forza Timeline:
•FH3-Start my Forza Career
•FH2-My hunger for more Horizon
•FM5-Free with XB Live Gold
•FH4-End my Forza Career
•FM6-Free with XB Live Gold
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#1674 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 12:35:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jezza14 Go to Quoted Post
Played a bit of FFA this weekend for the first time in a while. I was pleasantly surprised how little I’ve been rammed or nudged into side walls. Maybe I’ve just been lucky but has there been some improvement in player behaviour?

My points progress has been very slow though. At FFA I’m only at Rank 6 but I seem to be the highest ranked in most races. I’ve had a couple of GM/Rank 1s (who I haven’t beaten) but no one ranked 2-5. Think I’ve moved up about 50 points in about 10 events, including losing quite a few points in B class dirt events. Have had to bite the bullet and make sure I have a decent tune on a Track Tor as I definitely can’t beat them so have had to join them! So depressing as I used to really enjoy driving my Ford Roadster in B class.

Also managed to drive what can safely be described as my worst race in a long long time. Won the first two events in A class street and had a 12 point lead. Somehow managed to roll my Boneshaker within the first 30 seconds, got back up to fourth only to miss a checkpoint and drop to last again, then proceeded to clatter into a couple of walls to really compound the issue. Managed to finish 10th out of 11 which may be the worst result I’ve ever had in a Boneshaker! Definitely the biggest lead I’ve ever thrown away in one race!


FFA, depends on the lobbys and days. only 1 rammer is enough to change a race into bumping car challenge, kind of domino effect. Additionally , more you play, better you play, quicker you are in first position, the less chances you have to be rammed.

When you play with low levels, try let the pack goes at the beginning of the race then catch it, you will see that ramming is far from gone and anyway ramming is normal way in FH4, there is no where anything pushing or forcing anyone to race clean, you cannot even report ramming to FH.

Ramming is like Tracktor, if you want to get to the highest FH rank levels, better get ready to embrace it. Personally both are no way, my tracktor has still the 'new' stick on it, and BS are taking the dust for months now. Ramming is not my way to see FH, I try to race online like I race rivals, no hits and given my skills, looks like a never ending challenge I am afraid.


Neo open your mind, you are just a drivatar
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#1675 Posted : Sunday, September 15, 2019 12:57:13 PM(UTC)
Not sure if this is the best place to raise this, but can I just point out if the devs don't know already, that there is an exploit on the Rail Yard map in playground games whereby if you have a thin enough car you can get into an area between a wall and a train which prevents opponents getting to you. This can obviously be very advantageous in Infected games. I was just in a ranked match where an opponent did this to our team and none of us could get to him.
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