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#1 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 3:13:44 PM(UTC)
So my first two tunes were somewhat pretty straight forward since I focused on the Indy Oval (for the BRZ and Eclipse D-class cars) and these both turned out to be pretty good with one landing in the Top 35 and the other Top 25. Now, I am venturing into a challenge with a more complex track, Catalunya National. I built a 1981 BMW M1 targeting the A-class and it seems to be in reasonably shape with the exception of this problem for which I've tried many things. I am actually getting a little confused with many of the posts I read whereas so folks suggest performing a setting change in the opposite direction to what others describe for the same problem described by the OP's.

So, on to my problem....the car basically oversteers at corner-exit as soon as I start applying additional throttle. In some of the turns I have also experienced this mid way through the turn (last turn prior to straight / home stretch). I have ensured the throttle control is on check - even at relatively low speeds the issue surfaces. I have played around with the ARBs, Springs, Aero (min front/max rear, and, max front/min rear), and Accel/Decel (Accel range 10-60, Decel range 10-40) per many of the suggestions in the Forum's threads w/o any luck. Any ideas/thoughts would be appreciated! Thank you!

PRKid


DJ Saoco
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#2 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 4:11:05 PM(UTC)
can you post the stats on the car please also what parts you have on the build , its really hard to give helpful info with so little to go on .
creator of the original open source tune sheet found here :
https://forums.forzamoto...s--Not-a-calculator.aspx
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#3 Posted : Wednesday, May 7, 2014 5:56:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: reaper mech Go to Quoted Post
can you post the stats on the car please also what parts you have on the build , its really hard to give helpful info with so little to go on .


Thanks for the reply reaper mech....here you go....

A700, 5.2L V10 with Centrifugal Supercharger, HP 611, Torque 418, 2617 lbs (46%), 7.3/5.7/9.0/8.9/6.1

All Race P&H, race Diff, sport compound, upgraded tire widths, Forza Aero (F/R)

If you'd like, I can share/post the car and you can try out to get a feel for potential issues. Just let me know. Thanks!

Edited by user Wednesday, May 7, 2014 6:03:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 1:07:55 AM(UTC)
A700, 5.2L V10 with Centrifugal Supercharger, HP 611, Torque 418, 2617 lbs (46%), 7.3/5.7/9.0/8.9/6.1

What are these numbers? What's your spring rate and ride height.

It's possible that with that amount of torque the rear is squatting heavily for RWD on application of the throttle skewing your camber and all sorts so offer some resistance. Try a front bump of between 2-3 and a rear between 4-5. Try rebound front between 11-13 and a rear rebound between 8-10. One click up on rear ride height from min and 2 clicks up for front. Rear camber slightly higher than front and decel slightly higher than accel on diff. Max aero f/r with rear tyre pressure slightly lower than front.

That's a random setup based on not a lot of info but may work.
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#5 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 5:14:12 AM(UTC)
People offer what sometimes seems conflicting advice because there's often more than one way to arrive at the same nett result. Post your setup. If there's a howler there someone will spot it, otherwise I'm sure someone will build one up to help suss out the problem.
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#6 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:50:14 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ToOSk3tChY Go to Quoted Post


What's your spring rate and ride height.

It's possible that with that amount of torque the rear is squatting heavily for RWD on application of the throttle skewing your camber and all sorts so offer some resistance. Try a front bump of between 2-3 and a rear between 4-5. Try rebound front between 11-13 and a rear rebound between 8-10. One click up on rear ride height from min and 2 clicks up for front. Rear camber slightly higher than front and decel slightly higher than accel on diff. Max aero f/r with rear tyre pressure slightly lower than front.

That's a random setup based on not a lot of info but may work.


The build is currently looking like this....
Tp 29/28.5
C/T/C -3.3 / -2.8, 0/0, 6.5
ARBs 28.00 / 8.00
S 400.1 / 490.1
R/B 10.3 / 12.1, 2.2 / 3.4
Aero 50 / 200
Braking 65 / 160
Diff 30 / 15

ToOSk3tChY -- Thanks for the fdbk! As you can see the Bump numbers are in the range as you suggest, except maybe the rear. The rebound is backward in my case for the range. I have not played at all with the ride height. By the way, I did try the Diff Decel higher than the Accel setting yet similar results. It could have been the combination of settings I had at that time. I'll give these ideas a try again in a different combo/setup.

Edited by user Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:52:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 8:30:46 AM(UTC)
Yeah the ride height will shift some more weight rearward but with a stiffer rear spring and bump it should offer some balance and also promotes understeer, which is good if you're oversteering with added benefit of taking those curbs better. It's not common to use a high accel on RWD but a higher accel than what you have may offer more grip capabilities on throttle so long as you balance the decel with it so it's not terrifying when your controlling throttle off and on through the corners.
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#8 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:30:31 AM(UTC)
Max out the downforce on the front, you will need full downforce a class and especially with that car/track choice.
Your tune seems good, I see a couple of your issues however. Your rear end is to stiff and your front is way to soft. Flip your springs around 490-550 range on the front 400-450 on the rear.
Drop the caster back to default, it's not worth it, has little to no effect.
Diff is fine, maybe drop the rear to 10%
Rebound ( whatever the top option is ) the gap is slightly to big I would go around 11.5/11.0 F/R
Not sure if 65 is the brake bias because I don't think I've seen that before.
I have basically no idea on the technical side I just work by the numbers. Looking at your tune your is to soft in the front and to me a soft front and a stiff rear will give you more front end grip, which is exactly what you have. Stiffen the front and soften the rear you'll get rear grip. Your arbs seem to be in the right place if you're having over steer issues. Give it a go it might work or it might not!

Crav
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#9 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:42:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WearyMick Go to Quoted Post
People offer what sometimes seems conflicting advice because there's often more than one way to arrive at the same nett result. Post your setup. If there's a howler there someone will spot it, otherwise I'm sure someone will build one up to help suss out the problem.


Thanks WearyMick, and, I fully understand such advice. Posted my setup jic you have any thoughts.


DJ Saoco
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:43:09 AM(UTC)
I would say soften rear springs, soften the rear rebound or raise the front.

Also, could be to do with the build, the car is fairly light, and you have over 600 hp. no matter what you are going to require a lot of patience and good throttle control.

Edited by user Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:44:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


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#11 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:52:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ToOSk3tChY Go to Quoted Post
Yeah the ride height will shift some more weight rearward but with a stiffer rear spring and bump it should offer some balance and also promotes understeer, which is good if you're oversteering with added benefit of taking those curbs better. It's not common to use a high accel on RWD but a higher accel than what you have may offer more grip capabilities on throttle so long as you balance the decel with it so it's not terrifying when your controlling throttle off and on through the corners.


Thanks buddy! Will check this out for sure. I have a couple of hrs to play with it in a little bit. On the Diff, on one of Worm's threads he suggests (for Mid-Engine, RWD) settings for Accel between 20-50% and Decel 10-50% which are pretty wide ranges. I also read, and as you suggested, to set the Accel lower than the Decel.

Originally Posted by: Craviator Go to Quoted Post
Max out the downforce on the front, you will need full downforce a class and especially with that car/track choice.
Your tune seems good, I see a couple of your issues however. Your rear end is to stiff and your front is way to soft. Flip your springs around 490-550 range on the front 400-450 on the rear.
Drop the caster back to default, it's not worth it, has little to no effect.
Diff is fine, maybe drop the rear to 10%
Rebound ( whatever the top option is ) the gap is slightly to big I would go around 11.5/11.0 F/R
Not sure if 65 is the brake bias because I don't think I've seen that before.
I have basically no idea on the technical side I just work by the numbers. Looking at your tune your is to soft in the front and to me a soft front and a stiff rear will give you more front end grip, which is exactly what you have. Stiffen the front and soften the rear you'll get rear grip. Your arbs seem to be in the right place if you're having over steer issues. Give it a go it might work or it might not!

Crav


Thanks Crav! I'll check these out. I have played with full downforce on the front, yet, it seems I need to do a little "combo" change to hit the right range, then, tweaks from there. I'll do some testing and report back for further advice/insights.

Caster - yeah, I have not noticed any impact so I'll take to default.
When you say drop the "rear" to 10% on the Diff, are you referring to Accel or Decel?
I'll test the Reb closer together.
The 65% is the brake bias. For some reason, I tested to ensure the brakes/tires were getting red (about same temp) and arrived at this setting. How do you best test for this setting? I want to make sure I can turn the car effectively. Sometimes I have noticed if it is too low, the car keeps going straight an not turn on me. Thoughts?

Again, thanks!


DJ Saoco
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:59:26 AM(UTC)
bump settings are too low anyway (I do not care for the ridiculous 1-13 settings others suggest) but increase front bump by 0.3 increments and see if the issue starts to go away. Don't get carried away with massively over damped settings though so if you're getting into the 8+ region I'll suggest something else.

oh and careful with the diff setting, too high is better than too low, at least when it's high the oversteer is predictable, when it's too low the car handling is very unpredictable and in some long corners downright horrible.

Edited by user Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:00:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#13 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:37:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TorriderGull8 Go to Quoted Post
I would say soften rear springs, soften the rear rebound or raise the front.

Also, could be to do with the build, the car is fairly light, and you have over 600 hp. no matter what you are going to require a lot of patience and good throttle control.


Thanks Torrider! I am checking these out as I multi-task wight he Forum as well.

As far as the build/HP, you are correct....however, I sort of did this somewhat intentional to see how much I can push this vector. I actually had more HP in an initial build and had to back off. This one seems a lot better and I think I can get a tune, along with throttle control to meet it's driving/performance needs.


DJ Saoco
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#14 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:43:51 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post
bump settings are too low anyway (I do not care for the ridiculous 1-13 settings others suggest) but increase front bump by 0.3 increments and see if the issue starts to go away. Don't get carried away with massively over damped settings though so if you're getting into the 8+ region I'll suggest something else.

oh and careful with the diff setting, too high is better than too low, at least when it's high the oversteer is predictable, when it's too low the car handling is very unpredictable and in some long corners downright horrible.


Thanks Christian! Yes, the front bump does appear to be too low. Currently testing somewhat higher setting.

When you say "massively over damped settings", are you referring to the Rebound? It seems, the majority of threads suggest 10 and above for Forza 5 (the least I have seen posted is in the 8-9 range)!

On the Diff "too high is better than too low", are you referring to such in a relative measure? Or meaning to actually (absolute) have higher numbers? And, if so, for both Accel & Decel?

For Accel, it seems it is easier to feel the impact upon throttle on corner-exit, yet, I am not sure how to really feel the Decel number. Thoughts by you (or others)?

Again, thanks!


DJ Saoco
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#15 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:36:43 AM(UTC)
First of all, thank for all the inputs so far, it's certainly appreciated! OK, so I have tested many of your inputs and the car results are much better as it relates to the mid-turn and corner-exit oversteer. Actually, looking great in that area. Now, I did encounter turning to be somewhat harder in the sense of the wide turns (which before was much better, easier to turn), thus, hard to stay on track at medium speeds.

So, here is what I did get "rid" of the oversteer (rear end going off) during the turns.....
1. Softened the Rear and Stiffened the Front (Springs Rate higher in the Front than Rear), yet, kept same total on overall springs.
2. Increased Rear Camber 2 clicks above the Front Camber.
3. Set the Caster to Forza default (5.0) versus my setting of 6.5
4. Increased Ride Height by ONE click in Front and 2 clicks in Rear (now are at even height)
5. Rebound F/R closer together, set at 11.7/11.1 (before at 10.3/12.1), Front now higher.
6. Increased Front Bump slightly higher and Front lower, basically swapping the settings. Front now higher.
7. Aero maxed at 100/200 for F/R
8. Changed Brake to 52% balance (this one still needs work) -- any ideas on how to best set this would be great.
9. Increased Accel Diff to 40%, set Decel to 10%

Now I will try playing with the Springs and the ARBs to ensure I can turn somewhat better and reduce turning understeer. Additional thoughts? Again, thanks!


DJ Saoco
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 11:54:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RelaxedPRKid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post
bump settings are too low anyway (I do not care for the ridiculous 1-13 settings others suggest) but increase front bump by 0.3 increments and see if the issue starts to go away. Don't get carried away with massively over damped settings though so if you're getting into the 8+ region I'll suggest something else.

oh and careful with the diff setting, too high is better than too low, at least when it's high the oversteer is predictable, when it's too low the car handling is very unpredictable and in some long corners downright horrible.


Thanks Christian! Yes, the front bump does appear to be too low. Currently testing somewhat higher setting.

When you say "massively over damped settings", are you referring to the Rebound? It seems, the majority of threads suggest 10 and above for Forza 5 (the least I have seen posted is in the 8-9 range)!

On the Diff "too high is better than too low", are you referring to such in a relative measure? Or meaning to actually (absolute) have higher numbers? And, if so, for both Accel & Decel?

For Accel, it seems it is easier to feel the impact upon throttle on corner-exit, yet, I am not sure how to really feel the Decel number. Thoughts by you (or others)?

Again, thanks!


What I was meaning was that it is better to be under damped than over damped, if you run very stiff bump settings the balance might be better but you're giving away grip. I normally run decently high settings (5-6ish) but something like 11-12 would be overkill and ruin the handling so usually I would try adjusting something else if by that point the handling issue was still present.

Diff setting I was meaning in absolute in the context of the scale, I usually run roughly in the middle, running below 20-30 brings strange handling I find, running above 70-80 and the second you apply throttle the diff locks and the back goes. But, I find that running slightly towards the higher end gives a more predictable car and tend towards that since it suits my style better. Decel number is mainly under braking, I've not fully got a handle on it yet but I try to keep accel/decel roughly similar otherwise the handling can get a little bit funny in corners where you're only lifting. I tune my cars much more for consistency than outright laptime, it's not impossible to have both but I don't hotlap I race so consistency is more important to me.


Originally Posted by: RelaxedPRKid Go to Quoted Post
First of all, thank for all the inputs so far, it's certainly appreciated! OK, so I have tested many of your inputs and the car results are much better as it relates to the mid-turn and corner-exit oversteer. Actually, looking great in that area. Now, I did encounter turning to be somewhat harder in the sense of the wide turns (which before was much better, easier to turn), thus, hard to stay on track at medium speeds.

So, here is what I did get "rid" of the oversteer (rear end going off) during the turns.....
1. Softened the Rear and Stiffened the Front (Springs Rate higher in the Front than Rear), yet, kept same total on overall springs.
2. Increased Rear Camber 2 clicks above the Front Camber.
3. Set the Caster to Forza default (5.0) versus my setting of 6.5
4. Increased Ride Height by ONE click in Front and 2 clicks in Rear (now are at even height)
5. Rebound F/R closer together, set at 11.7/11.1 (before at 10.3/12.1), Front now higher.
6. Increased Front Bump slightly higher and Front lower, basically swapping the settings. Front now higher.
7. Aero maxed at 100/200 for F/R
8. Changed Brake to 52% balance (this one still needs work) -- any ideas on how to best set this would be great.
9. Increased Accel Diff to 40%, set Decel to 10%

Now I will try playing with the Springs and the ARBs to ensure I can turn somewhat better and reduce turning understeer. Additional thoughts? Again, thanks!


Point 8, is this on the incorrect forza scale? or do you mean the ACTUAL 52% and 48% rear setting?

ARB's are mainly mid corner handling :)

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#17 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 12:17:14 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post


What I was meaning was that it is better to be under damped than over damped, if you run very stiff bump settings the balance might be better but you're giving away grip. I normally run decently high settings (5-6ish) but something like 11-12 would be overkill and ruin the handling so usually I would try adjusting something else if by that point the handling issue was still present.

Diff setting I was meaning in absolute in the context of the scale, I usually run roughly in the middle, running below 20-30 brings strange handling I find, running above 70-80 and the second you apply throttle the diff locks and the back goes. But, I find that running slightly towards the higher end gives a more predictable car and tend towards that since it suits my style better. Decel number is mainly under braking, I've not fully got a handle on it yet but I try to keep accel/decel roughly similar otherwise the handling can get a little bit funny in corners where you're only lifting. I tune my cars much more for consistency than outright laptime, it's not impossible to have both but I don't hotlap I race so consistency is more important to me.


Originally Posted by: RelaxedPRKid Go to Quoted Post

8. Changed Brake to 52% balance (this one still needs work) -- any ideas on how to best set this would be great.


Point 8, is this on the incorrect forza scale? or do you mean the ACTUAL 52% and 48% rear setting?

ARB's are mainly mid corner handling :)



Christian, so, I get your point about not being over-damped....yet....getting a little confused since you are mentioning "BUMP" settings and not to have them high. I have the REBOUND high and low Bump settings. I think you really mean have the rebound in the 5-6 and not high like 11-12.....correct (or not!)?

On my braking balance...YES, I know the issue with the Forza scale. I am basically trying to apply more braking power to the REAR, thus, the reason for the 55%. However, I am still trying to figure out what is best!!! This car is heavy rear, RWD, and mid-engine. I do not know if there is a guideline for FWD/AWD/RWD along with weight balance to properly set the braking power/balance to Front or Rear.

Your comment on ARBs, thus, I should not mess with them for the understeer (wide turns that I am taking)? I'd like to get better turning response and not take those wide turns.

Thanks!


DJ Saoco
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 2:10:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RelaxedPRKid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post


What I was meaning was that it is better to be under damped than over damped, if you run very stiff bump settings the balance might be better but you're giving away grip. I normally run decently high settings (5-6ish) but something like 11-12 would be overkill and ruin the handling so usually I would try adjusting something else if by that point the handling issue was still present.

Diff setting I was meaning in absolute in the context of the scale, I usually run roughly in the middle, running below 20-30 brings strange handling I find, running above 70-80 and the second you apply throttle the diff locks and the back goes. But, I find that running slightly towards the higher end gives a more predictable car and tend towards that since it suits my style better. Decel number is mainly under braking, I've not fully got a handle on it yet but I try to keep accel/decel roughly similar otherwise the handling can get a little bit funny in corners where you're only lifting. I tune my cars much more for consistency than outright laptime, it's not impossible to have both but I don't hotlap I race so consistency is more important to me.


Originally Posted by: RelaxedPRKid Go to Quoted Post

8. Changed Brake to 52% balance (this one still needs work) -- any ideas on how to best set this would be great.


Point 8, is this on the incorrect forza scale? or do you mean the ACTUAL 52% and 48% rear setting?

ARB's are mainly mid corner handling :)



Christian, so, I get your point about not being over-damped....yet....getting a little confused since you are mentioning "BUMP" settings and not to have them high. I have the REBOUND high and low Bump settings. I think you really mean have the rebound in the 5-6 and not high like 11-12.....correct (or not!)?

On my braking balance...YES, I know the issue with the Forza scale. I am basically trying to apply more braking power to the REAR, thus, the reason for the 55%. However, I am still trying to figure out what is best!!! This car is heavy rear, RWD, and mid-engine. I do not know if there is a guideline for FWD/AWD/RWD along with weight balance to properly set the braking power/balance to Front or Rear.

Your comment on ARBs, thus, I should not mess with them for the understeer (wide turns that I am taking)? I'd like to get better turning response and not take those wide turns.

Thanks!


No not quite, I dispute the 1-13 Bump-Rebound settings most are fond of since it's crippling on tracks with large kerbs/bumps and is just plain wrong to be honest. I've found most my cars run bump settings in the region of 4-6 with rebound around 7-11. running bump very low makes it SEEM like the car has a good ride but it's actually pretty poor when it comes to dealing with genuine bumps and roll control.

My advice was that lowering rear bump or raising front bump should reduce the on throttle corner exit oversteer BUT if you've say increased front bump by 2.0+ and you've noticed no difference or little then I would look to something else.

With the brake balance I still always run with forward bias, that way, if the car starts to get away from you a slight dab of the brakes will bring it back into line, it's also good for overtaking since you can be sure your car wont step out.

On ARB's: If transitional response is poor (say S-bends) I'd look to anti's, likewise if the car is pushing to the outside in a long constant turn I would soften the front ARB or stiffen the rear. Similarly, if the car deals with kerbs poorly or one wheel bump situations poorly then I'd look to softening the anti's and increasing the main springs to compensate. For turning response I would generally increase front toe-out but only in very small amounts, otherwise I might say look to increase the spring rates in general across the car to get better response.

Oh and remember: toe is turn in response, camber is for the mid corner, I've got graphs that prove this.


To add to the dampers part, Forza really, really needs 4-way damping.

Edited by user Thursday, May 8, 2014 2:16:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#19 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 3:21:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post

I dispute the 1-13 Bump-Rebound settings most are fond of since it's crippling on tracks with large kerbs/bumps and is just plain wrong to be honest.

I've found most my cars run bump settings in the region of 4-6 with rebound around 7-11. running bump very low makes it SEEM like the car has a good ride but it's actually pretty poor when it comes to dealing with genuine bumps and roll control.

My advice was that lowering rear bump or raising front bump should reduce the on throttle corner exit oversteer BUT if you've say increased front bump by 2.0+ and you've noticed no difference or little then I would look to something else.



OK, got it! Yeah, you are correct, for some reason with the low Bump settings the car does "feel" like a good ride yet not sure the real value since I am just learning all of this. They did help me on a PB at the Indy Oval with both my Eclipse and BRZ. Yet, that is just 2 cases very specific to that track. I did not try setting high(er) Bump values. Will give that a shot as well to compare and continue to learn a little bit more.


Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post



With the brake balance I still always run with forward bias, that way, if the car starts to get away from you a slight dab of the brakes will bring it back into line, it's also good for overtaking since you can be sure your car wont step out.



I'll check this out as well, thanks!


Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post


On ARB's: If transitional response is poor (say S-bends) I'd look to anti's, likewise if the car is pushing to the outside in a long constant turn I would soften the front ARB or stiffen the rear. Similarly, if the car deals with kerbs poorly or one wheel bump situations poorly then I'd look to softening the anti's and increasing the main springs to compensate. For turning response I would generally increase front toe-out but only in very small amounts, otherwise I might say look to increase the spring rates in general across the car to get better response.



Yeah, this is what the car is doing on the first set of turns at Catalunya National. I have been playing with the ARBs and will continue to do so for a better match. I have not played around with Toe at all, for now, I have always left them at ZERO. Once I start doing some final tweaks I'll loo there as well.


Originally Posted by: GTPChristianC Go to Quoted Post



Oh and remember: toe is turn in response, camber is for the mid corner, I've got graphs that prove this.


To add to the dampers part, Forza really, really needs 4-way damping.


Thanks!


DJ Saoco
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 4:04:01 PM(UTC)
the tune it self does not look super crazy but as crav posted swap your springs around ,will build this up as you have it and post back with some feedback
creator of the original open source tune sheet found here :
https://forums.forzamoto...s--Not-a-calculator.aspx
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#21 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 4:49:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: reaper mech Go to Quoted Post
the tune it self does not look super crazy but as crav posted swap your springs around ,will build this up as you have it and post back with some feedback


Thanks reaper mech! Yeah, I have swapped the springs and that helped a lot. Once I did that I started running into a couple of issues per my posts in this thread. Still messing around with various settings (one at a time!).


DJ Saoco
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#22 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 7:29:34 PM(UTC)
Can you repost with your most current set-up. It's a bit hard to work out where you are at with it now. The first post showed a radically low rear ARB and high caster. That wouldn't have helped much. The fronts would have been hooking around the corner pretty much in lockstep and loading up the over-soft rear with excessive lateral Gs right when you were trying to get on the gas. Your outside rear would have been begging for mercy. I would have said start with balancing out the ARBs some and/orlower the caster to reduce the pendulum effect, but it looks as though things have already moved on from there.

You need to pick an approach to setting up the car rather than try to mix different approaches which looks like what you are in danger of here. Like I said earlier there is more than one way to set up a car, but all the settings bear upon it. Tuning ARBs and damping for a spring biased set-up is different to tuning them up for a neutrally sprung set-up. If you mix and match settings which suit different approaches you will end up chasing your tail. You also need to tune for the way you want to drive the car.
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#23 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:17:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WearyMick Go to Quoted Post
Can you repost with your most current set-up. It's a bit hard to work out where you are at with it now. The first post showed a radically low rear ARB and high caster. That wouldn't have helped much. The fronts would have been hooking around the corner pretty much in lockstep and loading up the over-soft rear with excessive lateral Gs right when you were trying to get on the gas. Your outside rear would have been begging for mercy. I would have said start with balancing out the ARBs some and/orlower the caster to reduce the pendulum effect, but it looks as though things have already moved on from there.

You need to pick an approach to setting up the car rather than try to mix different approaches which looks like what you are in danger of here. Like I said earlier there is more than one way to set up a car, but all the settings bear upon it. Tuning ARBs and damping for a spring biased set-up is different to tuning them up for a neutrally sprung set-up. If you mix and match settings which suit different approaches you will end up chasing your tail. You also need to tune for the way you want to drive the car.


Thanks WearyMick! Let me first answer your 2nd paragraph, I had actually been using one approach per all my readings/learnings so far. At the same time, as I welcome additional input, I have been open to learning other's approaches and trying to test some of the suggestions and/or insights they are providing to me. So, that is why maybe it might appear me changing the approach, yet, I am really not. I will modify according to what works (addresses the set of issues encountered) and feels right as I drive the car (per my style as you point out).

BTW, I have been primarily focused on a weight/spring biased set-up. Though I am new to this, I should certainly be more clear to folks as I ask these questions. Thus, maybe they can best help that way. This is why I had previously mentioned that I have seen where the OPs clearly state such yet they get various degrees of responses independent of such.

So, this evening reaper mech helped me out and we actually started by changing the build so it could accommodate Race tire compound (I had Sport). In order to do such, we dropped the total HP. Here are the latest stats: 7.1/5.8/9.0/9.0/6.3, 570 HP, 404 kb-ft, 2782 lbs (46%), 5.2L

Tune per rm's inputs/insights (still testing): 28/27.5, -2.0/-0.8, 0/0, 5.0, 28/6.5, 662.7/547.6, 3.8/4.2, 10.1/12.5, 2.5/1.6, 100/200, 55/120, 70/15

As you can see, I had tested a lower (stock) caster per Crav's initial suggestion on previous post and per reaper mech's recommendation as well. I also went with a stiffer front and softer rear setting. I initially kept the ARBs as-is, until the change with reaper mech (though they are similar, from 28/8 to 28/6.5).

Let me know what your thoughts are about build and/or tune. Thanks!

Edited by user Thursday, May 8, 2014 9:18:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified



DJ Saoco
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:09:15 PM(UTC)
That setup reminds of the Porsche tuning 'template' from fm4 et al. From memory I had a stab at an M1 a few months back but it may been hamstrung by a class PI limitation. I might dig it out tonight and see how it shakes out in A. MR in this game is a bit all over the shop and it may be that you need to set the M1 up with a very neutral and forgiving rear end. My instinct is always to keep the balance neutral and run a less active diff though. RM is on the money about the rubber. You want grip and acceleration around Catalunya.
Rank: On the Podium
#25 Posted : Thursday, May 8, 2014 10:22:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WearyMick Go to Quoted Post
That setup reminds of the Porsche tuning 'template' from fm4 et al. From memory I had a stab at an M1 a few months back but it may been hamstrung by a class PI limitation. I might dig it out tonight and see how it shakes out in A. MR in this game is a bit all over the shop and it may be that you need to set the M1 up with a very neutral and forgiving rear end. My instinct is always to keep the balance neutral and run a less active diff though. RM is on the money about the rubber. You want grip and acceleration around Catalunya.


I am not aware of the FM4 Porsche tuning template since I just started on FM5. Be great if you can check what you did with the M1. Actually their is ONE M1 on the top LBs for Catalunya National and that is what struck my interest. Basically go after a car not used too much in that track/class, yet, with potential. What did you mean by "MR in this game is a bit all over the shop"? By neutral you mean weight biased, or, settings evenly matched (or compensating)? Yeah, the race compound does help, credit to RM. My initial issue was the PI challenge, thus, went for more power (versus handling) and should had picked the handling.


DJ Saoco
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