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Rank: X-Class Racing License
#76 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2018 11:21:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: JediSith1981 Go to Quoted Post
I don't care about the in game economy or advantage of non Ultimate users being able to buy from Auctions.

I do not like having tons of vehicles I don't like & will never use BUT CAN'T sell them...

We earned them, so we should be granted to do whatever we want with them (upgrade & use, or sell off, etc)


What advantage are you talking about?
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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#77 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2018 5:49:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DnB mclovin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Cheaters will get their comeuppance in due course.


I can tell you flat out 100% this is not true.

A friend of mine, has "hacked" in 100 million, 250 million and 300 million (totaling 650 million credits), his gamertag can still access to online play and Auction House absolutely fine.

if this is his "comeuppance", good lord help us.

Not to mention the 1,000's of people running round with 2 +stars after abusing a certain glitch...



In due course :)

Xbox Live Gamertag : David McKenna
PSN Gamertag : djm99
Rank: Driver's Permit
#78 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2018 6:24:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BBTD MitchyK7 Go to Quoted Post
just called me an idiot.



No I didn't.

If you took it that way, then...well, that answers that, doesn't it.
Rank: Series Champion
#79 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2018 4:41:55 AM(UTC)
You're being deliberately obtuse to try be clever. Which clearly is an area you lack maturity in. So, there's that...
Rank: Driver's Permit
#80 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2018 5:55:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
I'll try once more to explain what's going on and hopefully why, though recent experience indicates that a lot of newer players to the franchise are going to happily tell you how wrong are my explanations. Ludicrous I believe is the term used.

In a real-world economy, one that functions well at lest, the total money supply is controlled. New fiat currency is printed/minted on a regular basis and old currency is removed. In the case of the US, currency is actually physically destroyed via shredding. Creation of new and destruction/removal of old generally equal each other out so that the overall money supply remains somewhat stable and fixed. This is a necessary condition as it leads to the overall stability of the economy, allowing for measured growth and increased investor confidence, There's a reason some two thirds of US currency resides in deposit outside the US, people trust in its stability.

In very general principle, for every new unit of currency added, there needs to be an offsetting removal from the total money supply to help control the rate of inflation. Inflation being where price level of goods and services rises over time, reducing the buying power of currency. Unchecked, inflation can turn into hyperinflation where the price of goods and services skyrockets as the value of currency divebombs.

How does this pertain to Forza? The Forza Central Bank (the game itself) prints/creates new currency at a breakneck pace each day. Every race that awards credits, every wheelspin that awards credits, every daily payout that awards credits, all of these are credits printed/created by the Central Bank and dumped into the economy. Hence the need for gold/money sinks. Currency needs to be removed from the total money supply via regular means to prevent the inevitable hyperinflation.

That's why there are fixed gold/credit sinks such as the fee skimmed off each auction, the cost of upgrade parts, the introduction of expensive houses. Then we have partial sinks in something like fast travel that comes with a fee that can reduce to zero through progression. And finally, a sort of inverse sink in the reward cars that cannot be sold back to the game itself. These cars have no direct credit value because they cannot be sold/exchanged back to game for full or partial value of buying one new. You can, theoretically, earn something from them by auctioning them off, or as suggested by someone, taking advantage of their associated perks (this is a very good idea!), but otherwise they have no value and you cannot get credits for them this time around.

All of these are design choices by the developers, some of them have been in the games before and proven to work, some are new and we'll have to see how they pan out. Either way, they no doubt consulted professional economists when creating this economy and will continue to do so and make adjustments in future titles.


it seems to me that not allowing car sales adds to inflation rather than decrease it. it literally reduces a players buying power because many of vehicles that players invested time/CR into now effectively have a value of 0.

if the game actually reimbursed some of the value a car has accrued, they would slow the rate of inflation by removing the deterrent to investing in low end cars that wont sell in the AH.

having a garage value that is such a poor representation of street value is a sign of the inflation brought on by this current system.

Edited by user Saturday, October 20, 2018 6:23:02 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#81 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2018 10:39:02 AM(UTC)
What are these Stars i keep hearing about, sorry I haven't used these forums often despite following the series for a while, I'd appreciate if someone could explain it.
Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#82 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2018 2:17:23 PM(UTC)
If "credit inflation" is the issue... why not just let us trade them in for influence or skill points or something?
Rank: Driver's Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#83 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:13:07 AM(UTC)
Not being able to sell cars outside of auctions is irritating. You get stuck with these worthless cars that no one wants and you have to sift through the duds to find the ones that you actually want to drive
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#84 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 12:36:31 AM(UTC)
In the state of stock many cars are not required by anyone. Even Ferrari.
So I will adjust those cars to S1 class and sell them at the lowest price. I need an average of 100,000 Cr to upgrade to the S1 class, so I pay an average of 80,000 Cr to dispose of unnecessary cars.
Of course I know that I can delete these cars. However, even for unnecessary cars to me, I can't endure that those cars are "delete".
I also know that it is only an sentimental problem, but I want "sale" rather than "delete"...

I believe that all Playground members are car guys / car ladies.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#85 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 1:01:12 PM(UTC)
This girl has a good idea. Why trade it for wheelspins.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#86 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 1:27:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dakrkplayer2 Go to Quoted Post
This girl has a good idea. Why trade it for wheelspins.


Well you can actually do it allready, just spending 2-11 skill points every car gives wheelspin but that is so terrible slow after 4 hours racing need to spend 2 hours to get all those wheelspins and remove or action those cars.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#87 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 1:38:55 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Your cap is not the same as that of a legendary painter or tuner. Experience would indicate that they'll price all of us out of the market soon enough.



Wouldn't it stand to reason that instead of making it more of a grind for the rest of us to have a few of the top cars in our garages,
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
an economy that the design of the games tries to keep viable for as long as possible.

it could be more beneficial with less negative effect on the community to work on the auctionhouse/marketplace mechanics?
Rank: X-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#88 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 1:43:55 PM(UTC)
Historically speaking, the problems with inflation in Forza comes from people glitching credits in the game and spreading them around, not from people earning them through normal gameplay.

While 'not paying out for X activity' might be seen as one of many legitimate strategies to halt the spread inflation that doesnt mean the players are going to feel that way about it. Telling players that they are in effect not going to earn anything for the however many hours of gameplay they just completed and it's for your own good, is never going to go over very well, especially when it's been something you've always been able to do.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#89 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 10:39:55 PM(UTC)
For all of use who keep winning cars we already have multiples of in our garages.
In the previous game, FH3, if we won a car we already had, the game would prompt a notice, asking the player if they wanted to keep the car or sell it for its preset price.
THIS WAS A VERY NICE FEATURE!!!
...and it would be nice again to have

[Mod Edit - thread merged - MM]

Edited by user Thursday, October 25, 2018 10:54:19 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#90 Posted : Thursday, October 25, 2018 11:54:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SavingPrincess2 Go to Quoted Post
If "credit inflation" is the issue... why not just let us trade them in for influence or skill points or something?


And this is kind of what I was getting at in my post 6 or 7 posts above yours. Even if they allow us to sell them off for a secondary point system that we can use to purchase Wheel spins/cosmetic items (and get the stupid cosmetic items off of the damn wheel spin wheels).
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#91 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 1:14:56 AM(UTC)
Letting us spin again instead of getting a duplicate would have been a far better implementation.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#92 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 5:14:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Experience shows that the high-end market will coalesce around one or two particular models with their prices being driven through the roof.

Can you explain this further? I'm on my 7th Forza game now, and I don't see the need for the game to simulate an economy at all. The laws of supply and demand don't apply because cars have an infinite supply at a fixed price. Why would anyone pay more for a car in the auction house than the fixed price from the autoshow? I'm aware that people can sell cars with unique paint jobs, but they are of no interest to me.

Personally, I can't see any problem with the game simply providing the player with everything on day 1 - all cars in their garage, all upgrade parts for free, all clothes etc already owned. For me, this would greatly enhance the gameplay as I'd be able to focus on playing it in the way I want to rather than having to spend hour after hour playing it in uninteresting ways just to get what I need to be able to play it in an interesting way. The only game so far where I've got it to the stage of owning every car is FM7, but it took so long that the game was basically dead by the time I got to that stage, and I can see the same happening with FH4 as I simply don't have the required 500+ hours available that I estimate the game needs as an initial investment. So I think I'll have to look elsewhere for my driving game experience in the future, as I've spent far more time playing FH4 since release than I would like, but it seems 140 hours doesn't get you very far, so it's clearly aimed at people who have a lot more free time than I do. If you look at how readily people jumped on the Goliath glitch to earn more credits, I'd say it's clear that many people don't want the game to require such a massive investment of time before you can start playing it properly - if that aspect were appealing to them, they wouldn't have exploited the glitch.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#93 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 6:49:18 AM(UTC)
Another idea would be to exchange cars for Forzathon points? Then you could use said points to purchase cars/wheelspins etc

As for the economy.... FH3 iirc had Subaru BRZ's in the AH going for 11,000,000cr I bought a few myself for the base 5,500,000 cr in the AH and flipped them for around 9,000,000 sometimes more. Hopefully this doesn't get like that, but so far I've just been sticking duplicates in the AH for 3 hours, if they sell that's great, if they don't they just get removed from my garage. It's damned annoying to get duplicate cars and cosmetic items. If you've already got something, it shouldn't even appear in the wheelspins, maybe with the exception of FE cars and some legendary ones. At one point I had 4 FE camper vans, 4 Beetles, 3 Golfs, and whole lot of other duplicates, the camper vans sold, but none of my other duplicates did....

I've probably put in 60 hours now, have all of the houses, some expensive cars, and around 3,000.000 cr so not too bad. I'm just careful what I spend my money on ;0)
I could agree with you, but then we'd both be wrong
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#94 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 7:05:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V12 SprungBoss Go to Quoted Post
It's also annoying when get duplicate car on wheelspin that will add garage automaticly there should be option to "quick sell" or at least remove it right away so garage dont fill up with those duplicate cars that dont have any value at actionhouse.


I agree. This was a feature of Horizon 3 and was very beneficial.

Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#95 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 7:18:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: David McKenna Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DnB mclovin Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Cheaters will get their comeuppance in due course.


I can tell you flat out 100% this is not true.

A friend of mine, has "hacked" in 100 million, 250 million and 300 million (totaling 650 million credits), his gamertag can still access to online play and Auction House absolutely fine.

if this is his "comeuppance", good lord help us.

Not to mention the 1,000's of people running round with 2 +stars after abusing a certain glitch...



In due course :)



Too little; too late. The people who abused that glitch already had their fun and are probably moving on to other games. Devs should have zeroed out the accounts of the hardcore glitchers immediately after they found out about it.

Since cheaters aren't getting punished, I guess the rest of us shouldn't have any qualms about exploiting whatever loopholes show up in game either.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#96 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 7:52:11 AM(UTC)
Credit inflation is a poor explanation. The price of everything in this game (short of the auction house) is fixed. You can get insanely rich in this game if you grind enough. Great, it's a video game buy all the things, the price won't go up.

Inflation is only of concern in a game with a microtransaction for real money, where the devs need to keep the in-game economy from inflating so they can sell you things for real money.


It's pretty clear to me that this game was designed to be a microtransaction mess. The forza edition cars, auction house, cosmetic items in wheel spins, and money sinks like inability to sell cars. Pretty clear they wanted to ride microtransactions into the sunset but were met with too much community resistance.

The game needs to reward you for doing well at fun challenges but not make you "grind" while dangling forza edition or other just out-of-reach carrots in front of you.
Rank: Racing Permit
#97 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 8:05:33 AM(UTC)
my easy fix is something ive begged for for years.. remove the minimum sale value. Noone is going to buy my james bond db4 for $65k. why not let me list it for $5k and have a chance at selling it. I guess this would inflate peoples car count in return, but i guess the lesson here is stop spamming us with cars noone wants.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#98 Posted : Friday, October 26, 2018 9:58:42 AM(UTC)
No sell car option isnt a problem at all - we have a Auction House. But i really miss option to sell cars for half of a full price after duplicate them on a wheelspin. It was nice time saver.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#99 Posted : Saturday, October 27, 2018 2:19:23 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Experience shows that the high-end market will coalesce around one or two particular models with their prices being driven through the roof.

Can you explain this further? I'm on my 7th Forza game now, and I don't see the need for the game to simulate an economy at all. The laws of supply and demand don't apply because cars have an infinite supply at a fixed price. Why would anyone pay more for a car in the auction house than the fixed price from the autoshow? I'm aware that people can sell cars with unique paint jobs, but they are of no interest to me.

Personally, I can't see any problem with the game simply providing the player with everything on day 1 - all cars in their garage, all upgrade parts for free, all clothes etc already owned. For me, this would greatly enhance the gameplay as I'd be able to focus on playing it in the way I want to rather than having to spend hour after hour playing it in uninteresting ways just to get what I need to be able to play it in an interesting way. The only game so far where I've got it to the stage of owning every car is FM7, but it took so long that the game was basically dead by the time I got to that stage, and I can see the same happening with FH4 as I simply don't have the required 500+ hours available that I estimate the game needs as an initial investment. So I think I'll have to look elsewhere for my driving game experience in the future, as I've spent far more time playing FH4 since release than I would like, but it seems 140 hours doesn't get you very far, so it's clearly aimed at people who have a lot more free time than I do. If you look at how readily people jumped on the Goliath glitch to earn more credits, I'd say it's clear that many people don't want the game to require such a massive investment of time before you can start playing it properly - if that aspect were appealing to them, they wouldn't have exploited the glitch.


Entitlement.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#100 Posted : Saturday, October 27, 2018 10:04:48 AM(UTC)
Having discovered the BMW M6 FE for farming skill points, that car makes it so quick to farm large numbers of skill points, that I now think the best way to deal with duplicate cars is to spend skill points on getting the wheelspins from them, then delete the car from your garage.

E.g. I have 2 x 1959 Jaguar Mk II 3.8. For 11 skill points, that car gives you 2000 car collection influence and a wheelspin. You'll also get influence and level ups from getting the skill points, and from spending the skill points, giving more wheelspins. It's pretty easy to farm 300 points in an hour with the M6 FE, so that will give 27 direct wheelspins. I'm not sure how many indirect wheelspins would result from the influence but I'd guess it's going to total at least 30 wheelspins per hour. And many cars give a wheelspin for fewer skill points.

If you don't want to specifically farm skill points, then the M6 FE is also a great drift car, and if you try to better your PB on drift zones I find that racks up skill points pretty fast as well.

If nothing else, getting wheelspins at that rate will get all the clothes etc and improve the outcome of wheelspins from that point on.

I also find farming skill points up and down the air strip requires so little attention that I can happily do it while watching TV, a movie, you tube videos on a 2nd screen.

Edited by user Saturday, October 27, 2018 10:05:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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