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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#26 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2018 8:04:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IceMan PJN Go to Quoted Post
Rubberbanding confirmed.


Not confirmed, do another test where you stay in the middle of the pack and see how they perform.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#27 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:00:07 AM(UTC)
Yeah sure, none at all !

Edited by user Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:35:33 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Legend
#28 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:39:06 AM(UTC)
What is that supposed to prove?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#29 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 1:40:19 AM(UTC)
Anyone who has run the Goliath on unbeatable will attest to the rubber banding.
PC: i7-8700k @5GHz, 16GB DDR4-3600, RTX 2080 Super Hybrid
Rig: Fanatec DD1, R300/911GT3 wheel, v3 pedals, CS v1.5 shifter; ButtKicker G2
A/V: ROG Strix 49" 32:9 monitor; Trust Tytan 5.1

http://linktr.ee/chojinzo
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#30 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 2:08:02 AM(UTC)
Weirdly I have seen both, races where I distance the AI by miles, races where they are always in close proximity.
Rank: Driver's License
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#31 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 2:15:54 AM(UTC)
Done several Goliath runs of various laps. There is small amount rubber banding on Unbeatable but the AI does drive fast. Only issue I have with AI is they outperform the car they are driving. Rubber banding is very evident in cross country events.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#32 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 3:01:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HEMAN843 Go to Quoted Post
Done several Goliath runs of various laps. There is small amount rubber banding on Unbeatable but the AI does drive fast. Only issue I have with AI is they outperform the car they are driving. Rubber banding is very evident in cross country events.


When a Transit keeps up with an X class Senna on Goliath there is definitely a problem.
PC: i7-8700k @5GHz, 16GB DDR4-3600, RTX 2080 Super Hybrid
Rig: Fanatec DD1, R300/911GT3 wheel, v3 pedals, CS v1.5 shifter; ButtKicker G2
A/V: ROG Strix 49" 32:9 monitor; Trust Tytan 5.1

http://linktr.ee/chojinzo
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#33 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 3:12:04 AM(UTC)
Did they actually say this? It’s so clearly in the game.

All you have to do to see it is be really race ahead in a race and watch how quickly the AI catch up in the last 10%
Rank: On the Podium
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#34 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 4:39:33 AM(UTC)
Showcase events are rubberbanded so that you're almost guaranteed a close finish with the Plane/Train/Automobile you're racing against.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#35 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 7:05:27 AM(UTC)
Everyone keeps saying it's there, but I have yet to see it, I even disproved it. I'm just waiting for someone to show evidence supporting the rubber-banding so I can stop bickering.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#36 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 7:23:16 AM(UTC)
Could this be a problem with how the driving model of the drivatars is handled?

As the scenery loads and unloads they might end up outside the area where the road and height maps are present in full detail, and possibly so far ahead or behind the player that they go into a purely logical driving model, basically just following the racing line without any real physics.

If this logical model isn't true enough to the physical world, drivatars could take on corners faster than they should and not be hindered by each other, road conditions, or obstacles. Similarly, if they're driving on less detailed surfaces while still in physical mode, they might still be able to drive faster than they should.

Even though the area loaded in full detail at any time is quite big, it could be a possibility (and also the likely main reason we can't switch to view opponents in replays).

Edited by user Saturday, October 6, 2018 7:26:46 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#37 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 7:25:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Everyone keeps saying it's there, but I have yet to see it, I even disproved it. I'm just waiting for someone to show evidence supporting the rubber-banding so I can stop bickering.


No your test proved it did exist. We discussed this and the AI definitely slow down when you are behind. Your experiments even backed this.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#38 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 8:00:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetleonidas Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TightSEAL Go to Quoted Post
i first thought the same, after the race i checked, the same class as I, same car as I.

Also what i suspect snow doesn't affect them. I was in an Agera RS. He was. Pulled away with ease at the straight. while i struggled to gain traction.. Doesn't make any sense.

For rubberbanding, it's not as present i think as in Need for Speed, Since you still can manage to get some distance away from them and keep it. it becomes hard when you're doing relatively fine and the guy in 1 place speeds away from everyone.


Yes, this.

I just wanted to say that I am grinding the Road Racing event to get to level 20 road racing (forget the name. The "final" race you unlock at road racing). In summer, I was managing a 4:40 time on that race. I was winning relatively painlessly, as long as I raced against other hyper cars and managed to get an early lead.

Now, in autumn, I am averaging 4:44 time in that race because of wet conditions. However! Drivatars are not affected. They still race as if it's dry, thus making the race harder for me. I suspect in winter it's going to be impossible to run that race, so that's why I'm trying my hardest to grind it now.


You need to retune your car to handle wet conditions better and you'll get your 4 seconds back.

There's a lot of nuance to this game that the rubberbanding, cheating AI contingent doesn't seem to get. I usually have the fastest lap time vs. unbeatable AI by 2-3 seconds and win my races. If you're faster and you don't make a mistake, rubberbanding doesn't exist. But you have to adapt your car.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#39 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 8:15:52 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Potbox Go to Quoted Post

You need to retune your car to handle wet conditions better and you'll get your 4 seconds back.

There's a lot of nuance to this game that the rubberbanding, cheating AI contingent doesn't seem to get. I usually have the fastest lap time vs. unbeatable AI by 2-3 seconds and win my races. If you're faster and you don't make a mistake, rubberbanding doesn't exist. But you have to adapt your car.



Truth. +10 for common sense.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#40 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 10:21:55 AM(UTC)
rubberbanding doesnt exist iam everytime faster in high KI-difficult mode
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#41 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 10:22:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Amused2Death 66 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Everyone keeps saying it's there, but I have yet to see it, I even disproved it. I'm just waiting for someone to show evidence supporting the rubber-banding so I can stop bickering.


No your test proved it did exist. We discussed this and the AI definitely slow down when you are behind. Your experiments even backed this.


They slowed down, they did not speed up. There's a difference.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#42 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 10:34:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetleonidas Go to Quoted Post
I would suggest to ignore SuperHornet, he seems to just be interested in trolling. I have gone forward and blocked his posts and reported him as well.


Yeah, he's obviously a troll who isn't here to "debunk" anything.

MOVING ON...

The AI in this game is the worst it's ever been, IMHO.

Previous games had their problems, but this iteration seems to be THE worst of all the FH/FM games from my experience?

The Rogue Drivatar -- The one who runs away from the pack and is impossible to catch -- Is still present, and so is rubber banding... Especially on Cross Country races where you can pull ahead and be three, or four seconds ahead then BAM! All of a sudden the leader is right on your tail to the point of trying to shove you off the track. There is also the classic case where you "pit" a Drivatar into an obstacle, but a few seconds later they're right on your bumper. People who ignore these blatant examples are either trolls, or shills for Playbround Games.

As stated, the only "solution" is to just not upgrade cars and/or lower difficulty.

This, however, takes any competitive element out of the Single Player if players know the AI Cheats and or will outmatch them no matter how well they drive. Somebody wrote, this is bad design and it is. The worst part is a lot of players who don't come to the forums, or have been following the series for a long time will think they are doing something "wrong" when they can't beat the cheating AI. It's only compounded when trolls reinforce that notion by telling them to "get gud" which is literally futile given how broken the AI is in this series and has been since FM5 where they introduced the Drivatar concept.



Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#43 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 10:59:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CaktuzJak Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: leetleonidas Go to Quoted Post
I would suggest to ignore SuperHornet, he seems to just be interested in trolling. I have gone forward and blocked his posts and reported him as well.


Yeah, he's obviously a troll who isn't here to "debunk" anything.



Wow, I'm a troll because I disagree with you? Show me the evidence of rubberbanding already. I've shown you it isn't real.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#44 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 11:51:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Showcase events are rubberbanded so that you're almost guaranteed a close finish with the Plane/Train/Automobile you're racing against.


This is absolutely true. Nothing that happens prior to the final scripted sequence matters...the AI has to make that final slow-mo scene happen.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#45 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 5:50:28 AM(UTC)
Can anyone confirm that there is no rubberband effect when playing PVP? sometimes there are races where you co-op against drivatars, will that be effected by rubberband?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#46 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 6:03:53 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Potbox Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Showcase events are rubberbanded so that you're almost guaranteed a close finish with the Plane/Train/Automobile you're racing against.


This is absolutely true. Nothing that happens prior to the final scripted sequence matters...the AI has to make that final slow-mo scene happen.


This is true.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#47 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 6:25:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Jake242 Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone confirm that there is no rubberband effect when playing PVP? sometimes there are races where you co-op against drivatars, will that be effected by rubberband?


No. The drivatars seem to run in packs. 2 of them near the fastest players, 2 in the middle, 2 in the back. They might be individually rubberbanded. What is definitely true for coop races is that drivatars don't stop on track to wait for the player to catch up. That only exists in singleplayer.
Rank: Driver's License
#48 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 8:26:28 AM(UTC)
The rubberbanding in Solo Races really starts to get on my nerves... I seriously consider dropping the Forza Horizon series for that reason.

Either the difficulty of the drivatars is so low, that there is no challenge at all or you have the "magical" 1st/2nd place and winning the race only depends on luck but not your skill. Either the 1st place runs away from the pack and is impossible to catch once you worked your way up to 2nd place. Or - if you luckily manage to ram your way into first position during the first few curves of the race - you have no problem running yourself away from the pack, but the 2nd place will magical catch up at the end of the race and try to shove you off the track or overtake you with impossible speeds. That is no fun at all and not my definition of good racing...
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#49 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 9:07:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Guthwulf06 Go to Quoted Post
The rubberbanding in Solo Races really starts to get on my nerves... I seriously consider dropping the Forza Horizon series for that reason.

Either the difficulty of the drivatars is so low, that there is no challenge at all or you have the "magical" 1st/2nd place and winning the race only depends on luck but not your skill. Either the 1st place runs away from the pack and is impossible to catch once you worked your way up to 2nd place. Or - if you luckily manage to ram your way into first position during the first few curves of the race - you have no problem running yourself away from the pack, but the 2nd place will magical catch up at the end of the race and try to shove you off the track or overtake you with impossible speeds. That is no fun at all and not my definition of good racing...


What course, car, and class did this occur in so I can replicate it? Because everyone seems to be screaming "rubberbanding" without proof of rubberbanding
Rank: Driver's License
#50 Posted : Monday, October 15, 2018 11:57:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
[quote=Guthwulf06;987025]What course, car, and class did this occur in so I can replicate it? Because everyone seems to be screaming "rubberbanding" without proof of rubberbanding

Nearly every car i tried (S1 or higher) and nearly every road racing track. Either (scenario 1:) difficulty to low and winning is a guarantee or (scenario 2:) diffculty to high and rubber banding with magical first two drivatars. The longer the track, the more obvious it becomes. Last try was Holyrood Park Circuit (20 rounds with Lambo Centenario in S2 class). Managed to early ram my way into first place and get away from the main pack. Only the drivatar behind my (after initially also falling behind) suddenly going much faster during the last rounds closing the gap to me and driving my nearly into the grass on one of the last curves. This time i had luck and managed to barely stay before him finishing first. Still annoying as hell...

And now to your "prove": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89RZTGE7SQ

I replicated your "prove" race with my limited abilities... Purchased a Bac Mono, Greendale Circuit, Clear weather, Autumn, Unbeatable Drivatar... Sure... your lap time of 0:50 is fine (i guess you're driving with manual gear shifting), but the lap time of your drivatars is really bad. Only your "best" drivatar gets a 0:53:XX laptime. No way this is unbeatable difficulty. In other words: You're driving in scenario 1 (to low difficulty, racing is way to easy, rubberbanding doesn't come into play). Because I'm driving with automatic gear shifting (and maybe i'm bad) I only reach 0:52-0:53 laptimes. I finish second because of rubber banding and scenario 2. So my best laptimes are way slower than your's and still, even my worst drivatar has better laptimes than your fastest drivatar. So clearly, you don't play on unbeatable and you prove exactly nothing.

And now let me show you the rubber banding (scenario 2: higher difficulty, magical first two drivatars):

3rd lap: I manage to get to 2nd place without problems, but first place already has run away. If this race would be default length (3 laps) i would have become 2nd place.



5th lap: the pack behind me slowly but constantly falls more and more back. Only the drivatar in 3rd place right behind me "magically" keeps up with me. And the first drivatar magically stays before me, without any chance to catch up. He only gets a bit slower in the last lap, but not enough to reach him.



final results: places 4-12 have their best laptimes within a very small margin 00:53:073 - 00:53:540 (not even half a second) and a total time difference of only 7 seconds (for 4th to 12th place, means: < 1 sec per place). 1st place to 4th place has over 10 seconds difference in total time (means: > 3 sec per place) and a best lap difference over 1 second to the 4th place. Places 4-12 has no impactful rubber banding. But 1st place (directly before player) and 3rd place (directly behind player) "magically" adjust their laptimes according to player speed. => That is rubberbanding.



So in the end, the others here were right... you're just trolling... Too bad...
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