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Rank: B-Class Racing License
#101 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 7:33:27 AM(UTC)
God-like Drivatar? I think you may be on to something here…

Racing Goliath, S2 Class, Unbeatable.

I’m in a 2014 Porsche 918 Spyder and at the south map, just past the second round-about, I finally catch up to the leader. He’s driving a 2011 Ford Transit Super Sport Van. Every turn we take I watch as his van doesn’t even sway from side to side; like he’s on rails going 200+ MPH. I think to myself, aerodynamically that just isn’t possible.

Finally, through the last set of S turns I start to catch him. As we approach the finish line I finally get close enough that I can read the words he has spray painted on the back of the van… “Jesus is my co-pilot”.

Just sayin’
Sometimes I wrestle with my demons... sometimes, we just snuggle.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#102 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 7:39:11 AM(UTC)
M. Rossi goes by aliases these days.

I don't know why there is such a huge difference between drivatars. It feels quite inconsistent when sometimes one of them takes off like a bullet and other times they pretty much let you pass.

In general it's as if there's some adaptive difficulty going on across events that keeps bouncing up and down instead of slowly settling at a reasonable level.

But whether a drivatar has had training from its human parent or is just default might have some impact. I've played the game a bit on a second account, and since then that drivatar has gone completely feral. 😋
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#103 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 8:24:46 AM(UTC)
Maybe that Drivatar was trained with data from some human cheater? Just a theory.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#104 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 8:26:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: andrOOrdna Go to Quoted Post
inb4 certain individual flies in and demands a video evidence.


You mean me lol. Yes, this doesn't happen on unbeatable, so turn the difficulty up.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#105 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 9:51:30 AM(UTC)
Or maybe it's much like before where 1-2 drivitars are getting pulled from the skill level above while the rest are accurate. I wouldn't doubt it to be honest. It seems to happen less on unbeatable, but every once in a while it happens.

I tend to do 15-20 lap races per event so it's more than enough time to catch them. They're usually behind by half a lap by the end of the race. It sucks for sprints though, at that point it's almost impossible.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#106 Posted : Tuesday, October 23, 2018 8:28:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: lImaRobotl Go to Quoted Post
Or maybe it's much like before where 1-2 drivitars are getting pulled from the skill level above while the rest are accurate. I wouldn't doubt it to be honest. It seems to happen less on unbeatable, but every once in a while it happens.

I tend to do 15-20 lap races per event so it's more than enough time to catch them. They're usually behind by half a lap by the end of the race. It sucks for sprints though, at that point it's almost impossible.


What do you mean "almost impossible" ?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#107 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 7:41:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: lImaRobotl Go to Quoted Post
Or maybe it's much like before where 1-2 drivitars are getting pulled from the skill level above while the rest are accurate. I wouldn't doubt it to be honest. It seems to happen less on unbeatable, but every once in a while it happens.

I tend to do 15-20 lap races per event so it's more than enough time to catch them. They're usually behind by half a lap by the end of the race. It sucks for sprints though, at that point it's almost impossible.


What do you mean "almost impossible" ?

With the short amount of time most sprint races are, if you don't get past the AI in the beginning than trying to make your way through the crash-happy Ai and finish in first can be quite the task sometimes.

Edit: Also, it does happen on Unbeatable as well, it's just rarer. There's always one car in the pack that can keep up from time to time, while the whole rest of the pack is large chunk of track behind us.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 24, 2018 7:43:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#108 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:32:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: lImaRobotl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: lImaRobotl Go to Quoted Post
Or maybe it's much like before where 1-2 drivitars are getting pulled from the skill level above while the rest are accurate. I wouldn't doubt it to be honest. It seems to happen less on unbeatable, but every once in a while it happens.

I tend to do 15-20 lap races per event so it's more than enough time to catch them. They're usually behind by half a lap by the end of the race. It sucks for sprints though, at that point it's almost impossible.


What do you mean "almost impossible" ?

With the short amount of time most sprint races are, if you don't get past the AI in the beginning than trying to make your way through the crash-happy Ai and finish in first can be quite the task sometimes.

Edit: Also, it does happen on Unbeatable as well, it's just rarer. There's always one car in the pack that can keep up from time to time, while the whole rest of the pack is large chunk of track behind us.


Every time I've run tests for rubberbanding on point-to-points, the AI struggled to keep up in every scenario. Unless you're deliberately forcing yourself to use some stock garbage, they shouldn't be much of a problem. Lemme know what scenario you ran it as and I'll see what's up.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#109 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:50:11 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: lImaRobotl Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: lImaRobotl Go to Quoted Post
Or maybe it's much like before where 1-2 drivitars are getting pulled from the skill level above while the rest are accurate. I wouldn't doubt it to be honest. It seems to happen less on unbeatable, but every once in a while it happens.

I tend to do 15-20 lap races per event so it's more than enough time to catch them. They're usually behind by half a lap by the end of the race. It sucks for sprints though, at that point it's almost impossible.


What do you mean "almost impossible" ?

With the short amount of time most sprint races are, if you don't get past the AI in the beginning than trying to make your way through the crash-happy Ai and finish in first can be quite the task sometimes.

Edit: Also, it does happen on Unbeatable as well, it's just rarer. There's always one car in the pack that can keep up from time to time, while the whole rest of the pack is large chunk of track behind us.


Every time I've run tests for rubberbanding on point-to-points, the AI struggled to keep up in every scenario. Unless you're deliberately forcing yourself to use some stock garbage, they shouldn't be much of a problem. Lemme know what scenario you ran it as and I'll see what's up.

I'm not talking about rubberbanding, I'm talking about a specific Ai, usually just one, that's far ahead of the pack either alone, or with me at times. I don't have an issue with rubberbanding, as that is when cars slow down and speed up on a whim depending on your position or distance from them. This one is just one outright fast car all throughout the race, far outpacing everything else in the race.

My experience seems to be the other way around, the circuits is where they tend to be a lot slower. This was mostly apparent during the winter season with Point-to-Point races, mostly off-road ones in particular. Ai not only run on simpler physics, but if they are far enough ahead of you at the start, they don't have to worry about obstacles that would normally slow you, down like walls and breakable objects, as they phase right through them, allowing them that extra bit of speed. So if I get caught in the beginning because of overly-aggressive Ai, then it just makes a bit tight. I tend to not ram my way through first and enjoy the racing and clean passing more than not, so that's also probably why it takes me more time. Either that, or you're just a better driver.

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#110 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 1:28:38 PM(UTC)
*sigh*

The game EXPECTS everyone to be in an optimally built car, and drive some version of "decent". no matter the difficulty. Think AWD swaps. I don't know if that's how things SHOULD be, but that's how it is. And the AI isn't very "smart"

Here's what I see: When I play on Unbeatable, I can either choose an optimally built car, or I can choose the kind of car most people choose and be 20 seconds slower on a point to point course. 20 second, at least. The game's limited AI is trying to cater to everyone, but giving people that drive well and understand how to optimally build a car a challenge is not easy to do and the challenge is weak. I haven't lost a circuit race against Unbeatable AI yet, even missing a checkpoint. They aren't in the picture. In point to point races, I've lost a couple, but that's because it's a 2 minute race and I'm starting in last place and am 10 seconds or more behind before I even get to the start line when the flag drops. But even in those races, I'm making up ground like crazy.

That's how the AI struggles when people are fast. But if I get into a bad car, I'm driving great, but am 20 seconds slower. Now the AI that was struggling is now trying to bend over backward to keep me in the event. The AI also gets temporary boosts in certain situations. Next time you close in on a car ahead and can easily pass, instead of passing just run into the back of that car and see what happens. For about 5 seconds, the AI will act like a bee that just had the hive bashed by a stick. The same thing happens if you touch a car in a cross country, or drive badly around AI cars. They get a temporary boost to make them appear racy. Even if you don't hit those cars, if you're just slow, you'll see rubberbanding. The real rubberbanding isn't the AI getting an advantage over you, it's the AI bending over backward to keep you in the event when you're car doesn't warrant you being in the event. The AI will let you catch up, take the lead, then will give you a taste of what you should be doing be storming back. If the race goes long enough, you'd see a cycle of the AI being weak, then storming back, then being weak again.

All that happens because the AI is set up to give optimally built cars a weak challenge, but that weak challenge is just way too much of a challenge if you're in the wrong car. So the AI goes through cycles of letting you in and then crushing you, then letting up again.

The solution isn't "to drive better", it's to build your car right. When I play on Unbeatable, the AI cornering and traction is never on par with my car. Cornering is where I make passes. And once passed, AI cars are never seen again. Except for the fact that the AI cars are drivatars and drive like human idiots (drivatars are a terrible idea as 95% of people in real life or in video games can't drive) and the challenge is weak, there are some spots for decent racing.

But when you show up in a non-competitive car, the game has a hard time playing down your car's level. Whenever you see the AI doing weird things, it's because you're slower than it anticipates you could possibly be. If you're too fast, they just fade into the rearview mirror. But if you're too slow, they have to keep you in the race ... and the programming just isn't able to do that well. The resulting gameplay is ugly, no doubt. But if that stuff was done away with, the challenge when in a competitive car would be even weaker. The things which are meant to keep things interesting for competitive cars torture the non-competitive cars. With all the complaining, though, I wouldn't mind if they just simplified the AI so that their lap times never change, they never try to hit you, and never be competitive.
Rank: Racing Permit
#111 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 7:38:19 PM(UTC)
Just got out of a race and I'm driving a Koenigsegg Agera RS. I lost the race twice because of a For Focus RS that controls 100 times better and can somehow keep up with my 270+ top speeds.
There are so many flaws with the difficulties in this game.
(NOTE: this is on Expert level)
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#112 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 7:47:46 PM(UTC)
I have all but stopped running the off road races until the AI gets nerfed. I have built a ton of stuff to use but its pointless when the AI has the physics of an RS17 on a dry race track.
Forza Faithful Since May 3rd, 2005
Former technician
Rank: Driver's Permit
#113 Posted : Wednesday, October 24, 2018 9:08:09 PM(UTC)
Same here, X class 911 gt2rs, unbeatable difficulty. I looked on in horror as my car got passed by mid-low s2 BMWs and older porsches in a straight line with perfect acceleration and top speed stats, and I have to corner almost perfectly every turn to beat them.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#114 Posted : Sunday, October 28, 2018 9:16:26 PM(UTC)
I'll get straight to the point
Recently i been getting **** ed off at the game because i can't seem to make it to 1st place at the end, i play on above average I'm not gonna say im a pro driver but im mostly the nfs casual type of guy but i don't consider myself trash either so.. The point is theres always this guy that I'm unable to catch up with like i feel the drivatar rubber bands away from me (about 3-5sec) the only way is getting to 1st place asap and hope i don't make a mistake but if they pass me i never see them again
is this normal?
Does the AI grant extra acceleration to other drivatars on higher difficulties?
Or maybe my car isn't tuned properly
Iike i said i play on above average, abs on, steering default, Traction off, stability off, MwClutch, racing line off, rewind off.
I'd like to point out this happens most of the time on the STREET SCENE RACES I don't usually have that many problems on other types of races but on this sometimes i have to turn on assists because it's always night time raining and the race path seems to have a ton of sharp turns where one mistake means you fly off the track
Rank: Racing Permit
#115 Posted : Monday, October 29, 2018 9:28:34 AM(UTC)
i'm in the Bentley Continental FH edition fully S2 upgraded and the AI is in a Subaru and he's passing by me at 350 Km/h like i'm on a skateboard... is like he's going at 400+ km/h... in a Subaru? no no no and nope.

the AI is completely broken... totally busted.

[Mod Edit - thread merged - MM]

Edited by user Monday, October 29, 2018 9:53:21 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#116 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 1:38:18 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Noble BXR Go to Quoted Post
I'll get straight to the point
Recently i been getting **** ed off at the game because i can't seem to make it to 1st place at the end, i play on above average I'm not gonna say im a pro driver but im mostly the nfs casual type of guy but i don't consider myself trash either so.. The point is theres always this guy that I'm unable to catch up with like i feel the drivatar rubber bands away from me (about 3-5sec) the only way is getting to 1st place asap and hope i don't make a mistake but if they pass me i never see them again
is this normal?
Does the AI grant extra acceleration to other drivatars on higher difficulties?
Or maybe my car isn't tuned properly
Iike i said i play on above average, abs on, steering default, Traction off, stability off, MwClutch, racing line off, rewind off.
I'd like to point out this happens most of the time on the STREET SCENE RACES I don't usually have that many problems on other types of races but on this sometimes i have to turn on assists because it's always night time raining and the race path seems to have a ton of sharp turns where one mistake means you fly off the track


As an above post said, this is an effect of the AI trying to keep you in the race when your're not doing the lap time it expects.

I've been running Goliath cult classics for practice and to try turning a car. Using the FE VW bus I was around 11 mins fighting with the AI all the time and often getting beat near the end. My lap at this time could be best described as an 11 minute near accident as I fought continual drifts trying to net out some forward motion. The perk points stacked up very quick though with continual ultimate drift and speed.

Some tuning later and I was in the 10:45's with a little better control and suddenly the AI at above average stops winning, always a few seconds behind

Some more tuning and I'm around 10:30 and the AI is a distant memory coming in well being me. Even stepping up though expert and onto pro I still win by 5-10 seconds.

Car is still hard work though, has a tendency to hit a bump and pick up a fatel slide where no inputs seem to make a difference. Also the turn in is shocking so I have to brake too hard for corners.

Overall though the main change has been tuning the car to make it easier to drive and its now to the point I'm always ahead of the AI. The bus is manageable on the second half of the track but a real handful on the first half so lots more to do.

As for my driving, I'm no expert but I can 3 star the world's fastest with a couple of reruns but no rewinds.

As a previous poster said, you need a decent car setup and from the times I see there only seems to be around 7 seconds between above average and pro on a 10 minute lap.

Rank: Racing Permit
#117 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:36:57 AM(UTC)
Think it’s been officially confirmed that they’ll never fix the AI as they don’t care >.>
“Of all creatures that breathe and move upon the earth, nothing is bred that is weaker than man.”

Check out my creative hub :)
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#118 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 5:56:33 AM(UTC)
I often play against "unbeatable" drivatars. My usual strategy to beat them is by going for a pure horsepower tune in A or B class. Through extensive tuning experimenting with all cars in particular type to find the best top speed car for the race I noticed the unbeatable drivatars definitely cheat on the top speed spec. They'll be driving faster than i'm certain their particular car can go. The drivatars are usually built to an all-round spec with decent tires, while I'll use stock tires and the best engine specs I can fit. The drivatars will hold the apex lines perfectly, while also beating me in top speed! They're not limited to the real car specs that I am.

I like the unbeatable drivatars for their perfect driving, braking, and lines, but they should not have magic super cars they should have the same technical limits that I have.

This streamer captured the drivatars cheating on top speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl1M3NrTQTI
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#119 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 11:12:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ti Hsien Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: JohnDoe9302 Go to Quoted Post
They also don't drive slower on wet road


You might be right, there. I can't tell because I don't slow down for wet roads myself.


AI cars are on rails. LOL.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#120 Posted : Tuesday, October 30, 2018 11:30:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HixBot Go to Quoted Post

I like the unbeatable drivatars for their perfect driving, braking, and lines, but they should not have magic super cars they should have the same technical limits that I have.

This streamer captured the drivatars cheating on top speed. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl1M3NrTQTI


Umm... this video is just a test of various car top speeds.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#121 Posted : Thursday, December 13, 2018 4:44:37 AM(UTC)
What is this weird behavior from the drivatars, i have no problem overtaking them and put some distance between me and them, but as soon as i get more than 20sec ahead, thats it and they suddenly match my speed. Its not really a problem when driving solo, but when they match my speed in online play most players cant keep up at all, and they all tend to leave the game. When i choose a game with X and the drivatars take S2 and S1 they can still keep up.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#122 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2018 12:19:51 PM(UTC)
I'm tired of getting overpowered cars to start in first place in certain championships. In the Extreme Track Toys championship I keep getting a Hoonicorn that outperforms every other car by an outrageous amount. This DRIFT CAR is handling better and is way faster than my completely maxed Ferrari F50 GT, and I'm simply fed up with it. I cannot drive my favorite car in any race unless I want to come second every time to a Hoonicorn. I either have to change championships, in which I smoke all the AI's except for one slightly broken car which manages to keep up with me, or I have to drop my difficulty from Pro to Highly Skilled which makes the game way too easy. I enjoy actually having to race against AI's but not when there is literally nothing I can do except attempt to run them off the road in an attempt to get to first. It is simply unfair because it is so impossible. A Hoonicorn taking corners considerably faster than any other AI and then immediately taking off down the road never to be seen again is not fun. I want to be able to actually race and be smart with my driving instead of basically cheating in order to beat a broken and overpowered car that would never be able to outperform my car in real life. Fix this Forza!
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#123 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2018 1:17:29 PM(UTC)
Somehow, an M5 E60 is more capable in the corners than a lightened M1.

And it wasn't even Unbeatable difficulty.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: Driver's License
 2 users liked this post.
#124 Posted : Saturday, December 22, 2018 6:13:41 PM(UTC)
From what I've seen (especially now), the AI has: Boosted traction, boosted acceleration, boosted engine power (especially on straights), and rubber bands to stay no more than 8-10 seconds away no matter what. Even worse, when the AI is ahead they act like two magnets with opposite polarity and are able pull away as you get closer, even if you're running faster than they are.

I thought FH3 was bad at times, but I knew I could lower the difficulty if I needed to, to make it fair. In FH4, the AI gets a high boost even on the lowest difficulty, so I don't even get THAT option.

Edited by user Saturday, December 22, 2018 6:15:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#125 Posted : Tuesday, December 25, 2018 11:09:43 AM(UTC)
losing every co op race i'm playing because i'm crashing into every corner just to keep up with the AI since the AI somehow is able to take corners without losing speed and grip

when i'm playing solo i can deal with it but in co op the AI is just godlike to the point that it just makes no sense....it feels like it's not affected by the laws of physics like i am.

my car could be S2 900 and the AI S2 800 and it doesn't matter there's no catching up to them

Edited by user Tuesday, December 25, 2018 11:13:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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