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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#76 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:20:05 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


But I’m racing against the same car driven by drivatars LOL. That is the whole point!


They dont have to follow the same tuning/upgrading rules, along with there being vehicles that just wont work for the class they start in. It just happens.
Rank: Racing Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#77 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:20:19 PM(UTC)
I recommend putting SuperHornetA51 on "ignore" because it's obvious he (and a few others) are here to troll, not add anything to the discussion. If it doesn't happen to him, it doesn't happen at all... Even with video evidence in this very thread to back up some of the things we're discussing.

He also has the gall to tell people to stop making posts like these (on other threads) because we're "trying to change the game" and he doesn't like it.

Your damn right a lot of us are trying to change the game. The AI is friggin' broken (and lazy) and takes any fun, or "competitive" nature out of the game, and that's saying something given FH4's dumbed down nature compared to previous FH games.
Rank: Racing Legend
#78 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:20:46 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


I have taken the time to blueprint just that car so I am not coming up against Alumis etc.

In B I have still to find a build that works.

And I think you were onto the reason. The handling of this car is too good even in B class. So in my build I max out the power. But the AI pretty much do the same plus get an extra 10% or whatever the unbeatable adjustment is. And they can use that power. I can't do anything because I can run flat out around most of the track anyway.

I blame the ants.
Rank: Racing Legend
#79 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:25:39 PM(UTC)
I ran it in my Opel Mantra 3 times as well.

First time I blueprinted it because I did not realise it does not tick it off as complete if you do that.

Second time I ran using the default event for tally monsters. I took a photo with me in the air in 1st place over the final jump with 2 cars right behind me, when I landed 2nd place zoomed past as they must have had a better landing.

Third time I was angry and that was the only easyish win. This track itself is quite brutal.

So I think the issue is any track that allows max power for a significant part of the track results in unbeatable being closer to unbeatable than they are on tracks where they need brake and turn a little more.
I blame the ants.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#80 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:44:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


I have taken the time to blueprint just that car so I am not coming up against Alumis etc.

In B I have still to find a build that works.

And I think you were onto the reason. The handling of this car is too good even in B class. So in my build I max out the power. But the AI pretty much do the same plus get an extra 10% or whatever the unbeatable adjustment is. And they can use that power. I can't do anything because I can run flat out around most of the track anyway.



I just did it in C class on unbeatable lol.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#81 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 12:49:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


I have taken the time to blueprint just that car so I am not coming up against Alumis etc.

In B I have still to find a build that works.

And I think you were onto the reason. The handling of this car is too good even in B class. So in my build I max out the power. But the AI pretty much do the same plus get an extra 10% or whatever the unbeatable adjustment is. And they can use that power. I can't do anything because I can run flat out around most of the track anyway.



I just did it in C class on unbeatable lol.


Unfortunately pal we don’t believe you. Post the evidence or disappear. LOL.


Rank: Driver's License
#82 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 12:53:20 AM(UTC)
I thought we would have cool AI that actually raced. The AI here never changes place. They stay set the whole race. Must of took them all of two days to program this. The AI is like a I"m playing a racing game from the 90's.
THis game is beautiful and fundamentally sound. Once you dig a little deeper its really shallow. I don't understand what they worked on if not things like AI and online options, championships ain't even there nor is place tracking.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#83 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 1:26:17 AM(UTC)
Think I'll give that Baja Bug Titan thing a try when I get home. I fully expect to come in dead last.
Welcome to the Hyperbolic Whine Chamber. If you cry hard enough you might get your pouter level over 9000.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#84 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 2:55:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CaktuzJak Go to Quoted Post
I recommend putting SuperHornetA51 on "ignore" because it's obvious he (and a few others) are here to troll, not add anything to the discussion. If it doesn't happen to him, it doesn't happen at all... Even with video evidence in this very thread to back up some of the things we're discussing.

He also has the gall to tell people to stop making posts like these (on other threads) because we're "trying to change the game" and he doesn't like it.

Your damn right a lot of us are trying to change the game. The AI is friggin' broken (and lazy) and takes any fun, or "competitive" nature out of the game, and that's saying something given FH4's dumbed down nature compared to previous FH games.


I said the almost exact same thing in this or another thread (I forget). I found it funny :)
Rank: Racing Permit
#85 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 3:03:31 AM(UTC)
I just wanted to post an interesting thing I found:

I am currently grinding "The Gauntlet" (the dirt racing race) to increase Dirt Racing to level 20.

For this purpose I am using the barn find subaru impreza (or wrx, not sure, the barn find subaru), since it gives 1 perk for +30% influence, and another for +20% influence in dirt racing.

I raced 10 times with it rated at S1 898. I was winning by +10-ish seconds difference between me and the pack of AI.

I made some changes to the car, bumped it up to S2 904 (changed spoiler, and changed engine to use V8 one + upgrades. Before I was using the F6 one).

After that change I saw a drastic change in the AI behavior. For the following 5 races, the AI started shooting in front at the beginning of the race (before I consistently managed to take 1st place by the 3rd turn. Now, in ALL 5 races, I was #3 by the 3rd turn, trying to catch up to #1 and #2), and at the end of the race were only 2-3 seconds behind me.

Nothing changed, my times stayed consistent - at around 9:50 (I know I'm not a great driver, but that's not important). Before I tuned my car to S2, the AI were consistently pulling in 10:00 or 10:00+ times. Consistently for 10 races. After I upgraded my car, my times I would say improved by 1-2, so maybe 9:48 - 9:49, but the AI now are coming in ALL before 9:55. For ALL 5 races.

So this leads me to believe that the car rating plays a very important role in how AI behaves. This is just an initial impression, based on 15 races, I will try and do similar tests for other categories as well (road racing, cross country). But right now my assumption is that as soon as you get to S2 (and X eventually) the AI get boosted somehow.

Let me know please if you have seen similar behavior?
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#86 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 5:55:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


I have taken the time to blueprint just that car so I am not coming up against Alumis etc.

In B I have still to find a build that works.

And I think you were onto the reason. The handling of this car is too good even in B class. So in my build I max out the power. But the AI pretty much do the same plus get an extra 10% or whatever the unbeatable adjustment is. And they can use that power. I can't do anything because I can run flat out around most of the track anyway.



I just did it in C class on unbeatable lol.


Unfortunately pal we don’t believe you. Post the evidence or disappear. LOL.




Sure thing, I actually recorded it too, I'll upload it when I get home. (;
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#87 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 6:05:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


I have taken the time to blueprint just that car so I am not coming up against Alumis etc.

In B I have still to find a build that works.

And I think you were onto the reason. The handling of this car is too good even in B class. So in my build I max out the power. But the AI pretty much do the same plus get an extra 10% or whatever the unbeatable adjustment is. And they can use that power. I can't do anything because I can run flat out around most of the track anyway.



I just did it in C class on unbeatable lol.


Unfortunately pal we don’t believe you. Post the evidence or disappear. LOL.




Sure thing, I actually recorded it too, I'll upload it when I get home. (;


Just a screenshot of the results page showing the times will work. Not sure from replay whether times and difficulty will show ;)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#88 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 6:33:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SatNiteEduardo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post


For the hell of it and to prove a point that not all cars can be driven to win on higher drivatar difficulty levels, even against a field full of the same car at a lower PI level. This thread set out to show up the game’s inadequacies and imbalances in the AI after all.




If you deliberately drive the slowest vehicle you can in the class, you're just asking to lose.


I have taken the time to blueprint just that car so I am not coming up against Alumis etc.

In B I have still to find a build that works.

And I think you were onto the reason. The handling of this car is too good even in B class. So in my build I max out the power. But the AI pretty much do the same plus get an extra 10% or whatever the unbeatable adjustment is. And they can use that power. I can't do anything because I can run flat out around most of the track anyway.



I just did it in C class on unbeatable lol.


Unfortunately pal we don’t believe you. Post the evidence or disappear. LOL.




Sure thing, I actually recorded it too, I'll upload it when I get home. (;


Just a screenshot of the results page showing the times will work. Not sure from replay whether times and difficulty will show ;)


Screenshot isn't enough, especially when I got video evidence. Though the replay is a bit buggy, (pun) as it sounds like the car is red-lining the entire race, which is annoying.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#89 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 8:10:59 AM(UTC)
I just drive two 10 laps goliath race, first against unbeatable drivatars i won race by 9 seconds then i pick same race with same car again change ai difficulty to highly skifull, i drive that race 26 seconds faster than first race but again i win by same 9 second. i wonder how big boost game gives to ai when they can drive goliath around with pi928 aston martin db11 in time 8,20.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#90 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 11:13:37 AM(UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLozoMLmAzA

Here it is, Titan done in C class Baja Bug against Unbeatable Drivatars
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#91 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 12:59:58 PM(UTC)
I think it might be a bit faster to go around the hill if you can find a good path that doesn't hit a rock hidden in the grass. There's no checkpoint up there.

I definitely couldn't gain any ground on the AI at the top of D. Early on I got to 9th only because the AI hit various objects and was slowed down, but once there was anything resembling a straight I simply couldn't match its speed and that was that. If nothing else, it's certainly makes a case against the AI being rubberband.
Welcome to the Hyperbolic Whine Chamber. If you cry hard enough you might get your pouter level over 9000.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#92 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 4:44:54 PM(UTC)
AI in Forza can get artificial speed boost. One such example is Sebring in FM7, where the AI has impossible acceleration leading to Turn 7 but strangely lacks the boost at the Ullman straight.

In Cross Country events, the AI tends to get a lead on you in tough sections with lots of bumps. Being smooth in these requires much skill, which the AI doesn't need, as it'll always land in a favorable position. When landing on water sections, the AI does not have the same difficulty keeping the car straight as the player either.

However, it amuses me to see a guy stating we must GIT GUD yet acknowledging dirt courses trouble him. I tend to perform better on dirt than on tarmac precisely because the rally tires, being as good as they are, allow you to offset any advantage the AI has. With a C600 Mini shod with rally tires, I didn't find it difficult to win the seasonal Classic Rally championship against Unbeatable opposition. Moss is faster and more consistent than me, and is better at optimising his builds, so I suspect he would perform even better than I did.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#93 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 5:11:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLozoMLmAzA

Here it is, Titan done in C class Baja Bug against Unbeatable Drivatars


Well done, since your run I also managed it in C class, but only because the drivatars had a bad run. On my next run the drivatars ran a 6:10 which would be very difficult to achieve.

I still think at D500 it is impossible, unless there really is a much faster route around the hill. Thanks for pointing that out Ti Hsien :D



Rank: Racing Permit
#94 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 2:30:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLozoMLmAzA

Here it is, Titan done in C class Baja Bug against Unbeatable Drivatars


What difficulty was that on?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#95 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 2:44:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: utbdoug Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SuperHornetA51 Go to Quoted Post
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLozoMLmAzA

Here it is, Titan done in C class Baja Bug against Unbeatable Drivatars


What difficulty was that on?


In the very post you've quoted it makes a claim what the difficulty was.
Welcome to the Hyperbolic Whine Chamber. If you cry hard enough you might get your pouter level over 9000.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#96 Posted : Thursday, October 11, 2018 2:14:24 PM(UTC)
It looks like the AI racers aren't slowed down by snowdrifts AT ALL. Just tried doing some cross country races for the weekly Forzathon challenge and I'm finding myself losing even to New Racer AI (unless I race dirty and cut them off and block them) on some races with my Colorado since they have sections going uphill through a snow drift which really bogs down the stock truck, so the AI rockets past me regardless of the difficulty (usually in a suspiciously fast Bronco that appears to be violating race restrictions). Try the cross country race near Ambleside, the last turn before the finish line is an uphill corner through snowdrifts. This is coming from someone who usually races against expert AI for the super wheelspins on the seasonal events.

At least we can use blueprints to change the season since I expect cross country races in Spring to be just as bad with the mud.

Edited by user Thursday, October 11, 2018 2:15:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#97 Posted : Sunday, October 21, 2018 10:00:51 AM(UTC)
Okay, so one big issue I have with this game is that AI cars seem to be inexplicably fast. I’m currently driving a Porsche 918 Spyder fully upgraded, racing against the likes of Ford Mustangs, all of which seem to leave me in their dust despite my car being over 150mph faster on the straights? Not only that, I’ll have other cars like BMW’s up my ***., in what universe is a BMW M5 capable of achieving 225mph? I play in Expert difficulty so I was expecting some difficulty to be added, but I didn’t expect AI cars to be given completely unrealistic abilities.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#98 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 6:11:37 AM(UTC)
gotta get ahead of him early otherwise he wins the race cause he has super speed + perfect grip on a wet track somehow....if he's like 15 meters ahead of you the race is over you might as well restart cause you'll never catch him cause every time you drift just a little bit he gets that much further from you.

yeah that's annoying

Edited by user Monday, October 22, 2018 6:17:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#99 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 6:56:57 AM(UTC)
inb4 certain individual flies in and demands a video evidence.
Rank: Racing Permit
#100 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 7:03:39 AM(UTC)
Delete everyone from your friendliest who plays Forza Horizon 4. Problem solved.
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