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Rank: Driver's Permit
#251 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 6:02:36 AM(UTC)
i kinda want them to do it somewhere in South America. Whether it be Brazil, Chile, Argentina, etc. would really be a beautiful location regardless....especially the cars we don't get in North America like the Chevy Opala and such.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#252 Posted : Thursday, January 16, 2020 1:11:26 PM(UTC)
Put Me down for Supporting a Completely FICTIONAL Location in the Southern European Hemisphere...simply because I feel that is the most Beautiful part of the World,

This would allow for the Maximum amount of Biome Diversity with Deserts, Beaches, Cliff and Coast Areas, Forests, Mountains, Rolling Farmlands, Hillside Vineyards, Professional Race Tracks, Cities both Ancient *and* Modern, basically everything, all on the same Map.

It would allow for the Game to Technically be Locked to Summer once more, Yet also still have Seasons if it is located somewhere such as the Adriatic, which basically has Summer the Year around so Seasons would mostly affect how long the Day and Night Cycles are (Such as, say, a 6 in Game Hour Day with an 18 in Game Hour Night with average Temperatures of 17 Degrees Centigrade in Winter, but a 19 in Game Hour Day with a Five in Game Hour Night, with average Temperatures of 32 Degrees Centigrade in Summer) providing Weather that would appeal to both Players who want Horizon to remain Seasonal, as well as those who want it to be Locked to Summer again in the Vein of the Classic Horizon Games.

It would allow them to make the most Beautiful Location Possible, as they wouldn't have to worry about Modelling some of the creepy "Hood" Districts or Depressing Urban Sprawls or Ugly Abandoned Ruins in the name of "Realism" like those which have ruined the Map in FH4 and made it Depressing, they could focus Purely on astounding Natural and Architectural Beauty by making the Location "Super Wealthy" (the Island (s) sitting on a Massive Reserve of Oil would make that Plausible!) so they could make a truly Gorgeous Map.

Sorry, I don't want Depressing Urban Sprawls and Abandoned Ruins and creepy "Hoods" In Forza, and I would rather People who want those Elements would just go and Play NFS or the "Racing" mode in GTAO instead so Forza does not get *ruined* by them again! as I don't like being *Depressed* by a Games Environment!

The Developers also wouldn't have to worry about *Mass* Manufacturer Pull out like they would with Japan either, yet they would still be able to have all the Insane Mountain Roads. I really do think a lot of the European Car Companies, who are now downright *Hostile* to Illegal Street Racing and Car Customisation in Games do not forget, would remove their Licences if the Series went to Japan as their Car culture is based almost entirely on Elements that a lot of European Car Companies, Namely Illegal Street Racing and extreme Customisation, are now downright *Hostile* towards being featured in Games with their Licences attached, Mercedes-Benz are particularly Finicky about "Customisation" these Days as an example! With a Fictional Country however, they could also create a Fictionalised Car culture based around the demands and Preferences of the Car Manufacturers featured in the Games Car list, making them more willing to licence more of their Cars to Forza than ever before!

The Team would also be able to Build the Roads around the Games Car Roster, meaning, unlike FH4 where the Road Network just isn't Suitable for anything above class A as the Roads are just too Darn Narrow with too many Blind off Camber Bends, a Fictional Location would be able to build its Road Network around all the Classes, allowing for more Road Diversity, everything from Tight and Twisty Mountain Drift Heavens for RWD Machines, to Winding, Rolling, Rollercoaster B Roads for Hot Hatchbacks to Sweeping High Speed Coastal Roads for Super and Hypercars, via long, Wide and Straight Motorways for American Muscle, build the Road Network around the Car List for a Map that has something for every Category so we don't getr a Repeat of a Road Network that doesn't Support all the Games Car Classes! Adding Professional Race Tracks to that list would also allow GT and Touring Cars to be Returned to Horizon, allow for more Immersive use of Track Day Cars, and, licencing Permitting, could even see Single Seater/ post 1950 Formula One Cars making their Horizon Debut.

It would also allow the Developer to chose if it is a Left Hand Side or Right Hand Side Location based on a Public Poll to give the Community what they actually want! I would prefer LHS being a Brit, but, I know a lot of You on Here are American and thus Prefer RHS.

I do suggest however that FH5, to get the most out of a completely Fictional Map in terms of removing the Restrictions in Scenery Variety and Road Design placed upon the Team by basing the Map on a "Best of" Album of a Real Life Location, will need a new Graphics Engine that supports the ability to Stream Map Data from Storage directly to the GPU in 60KM Squared Sized Chunks, and they need to *drop* Support for anything below PC (with 16GB SD-RAM Minimal) and Series X, so We are no longer Restricted to a Positively miniscule Map that has to Fit into 2GB of Non-Streamed Data due to Technical Limits in the *Elderly* Forzatech Engine (which dates back to Xbox360) that mean it cannot Data Stream and SD-RAM Restrictions on Xbox One base and S (which can only spare a meagre 5GB of SD-RAM for Running Games) , as doing that would then allow them to make the Map as Big as their Imaginations would allow.

I Personally would like to see something 20 Times the Size of *ALL* the Previous Horizon Games put together, so, around 2 and 1/4 Times the Size of the Map in TDU-1 for Maximum Biome Diversity, long Road Trips, a compromise in terms of City/Country Biasing that would allow for both the big Cityscapes for those who want them, but also a Predominately Country based Map for Players who find Cityscapes Depressing (like Myself), more Road Variety, with stunning Driving experiences on great Roads that can last 40 Minutes, rather than 40 Seconds, Room for *Several* Motorways/Highways, and just generally a massive increase in Diversity in Terms of Road Design, and to allow the Map to feel like it is at a 1:1 Scale to Increase Immersion in the Game World.

However, more than Location, if there is one thing that is *Vital* for FH5 to get Right, it is that it has got to go back to being a Game for People who Love Cars! the *Original* Forza Fanbase! because if it carries on being a Gimmick Vehicle, Lootbox Gambling, Lego Toy , Cringefest Dance and other such Childish Content Packed, Live Services Focussed, Battle Royale Enabled pile of Trend Chasing, also Ran, AAA-Drone Hive, "It feels like an Evil Alliance Game" under-Par and below expectation Garbage like 4 has sadly Devolved into, it doesn't matter where the Game is Set, FH5 is going to be a Sales *Disaster* ! it will lose the original Fans, and that means Playground will lose everything as the originals, so long as they don't lose us, will still be Playing Horizon *Long* after the Fortnite Fans discover Skateboarding, Girls (or Boys) and Heavy Metal and vanish into the Ether! so they need to Keep us by making a Game not for Casual Trend Chasers, but for Real Car Guys again!

We, the True Forza Fans, *Never* want to see another Forza as Awful as FH4 has become again! so before they even Start on the Map, Playground needs to Hire some *Real* Car Guys in (may I suggest Henry Catchpole, Harrison Metcalfe, Richard Meaden, Steve Sutcliffe, Chris Goodwin, Jethro Bovingdon, Dario and Marino Franchitti, Tiff Needell and Chris "Monkey" Harris? the *Classic* EVO Magazine Team) and some Actual *Gamers* (may I suggest Don Joewon Song, Frank (EKDrifer/DriftPanda/PetrolheadPanda), Failrace. and other Forza Legends) in to Steer the Franchise back away from being "Fortnite with Cars" which is what FH4 has become, and back to being "a Car Guys and Real Gamers" Game like FH2. Because if they don't do that, the Location is going to be Moot! Because the Game will suck no matter where it is Set.

So. Forza Fans, what would You rather have? Japan (with that Admittedly *Incredible* Fan Made Map on Reddit made Real, the absolutely *Massive* One that looks like it is Straight out of the Game Engine and even has Fuji Raceway as a Horizon Festival!) but as yet another "Fortnite with Cars" AAA-Drone Hive "Trend Chaser" Disappointment? , or a Completely Fictional but as a Real Car Guys and Gamers Game again? what would You all rather prefer? I bet its the latter like Me, as Location is moot if the Game underneath it is a Stinker!

Edited by user Thursday, January 16, 2020 2:25:14 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#253 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2020 1:30:05 AM(UTC)
(Before I say of what I have to say I just want everyone to know that everyone is absolutely 100% entitled to his/her own opinion and preferences and now with that out of the way here I go) I personally think that we shouldn't have a fictional location for FH5 cuz if that were to happen then there wouldn't be FH6 FH7 or even FH8 and if none of y'all want that to happen then plz just think about of what you're typing but if y'all still want to have a fictional location then I will completely understand and respect your own opinion and preference but as for me I want the JAPAN club to win
Rank: Driver's Permit
#254 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2020 2:00:29 AM(UTC)
*I REALLY* want Forza Horizon 5 to take place in London or either Melbourne or Sydney... Even if Forza Horizon 3 and Forza Horizon 4 take place in these locations I feel like London would be THE NICEST THING IN THE WORLD (do take note that my top favourite countries in the world are 1. The UK , 2.Australia , 3.the USA) and when I heard that Forza Horizon 4 doesn't have London I was sad... , New York will be kinda boring , and actually if you want to put all the surfaces Australia is the best with all the surfaces , even Tundra in the Outback in winter.... So or Sydney (absolutely every surface and very good off-road and the cities and villages surrounding it can be very fun) or London (the surroundings next to London can be very good for off-road too and also the city will be very nice for litterally every race and the villages and cities surrounding London)
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#255 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2020 11:38:40 AM(UTC)
Why would there not be a 6 or a 7 or an 8 with a Fictional Location? this is a big Planet, there is a lot of Ocean out there, just because a game has a Fictional Location, it doesn't wipe Out any Sequel Potentiality.

Most Gamers don't care one *jot* if the Game is set in a Real Location or a Fictional One these Days, just so long as the Game itself is actually good, so going Fictional is not going to harm the Sales one bit, especially as Horizons Maps are basically 90% Fictional anyway and just have a Real Life Nations Name and some Aesthetic Elements that make them look a "bit" like that Nation Plastered onto them! so they may as well just go that last 10% and be done!

Given there is a Huge amount of Geography out there, and there is an awful lot of Empty Ocean that does not need to be so Empty in the "Forza Universe" , there is scope for *several* Fictional Locations!

FH5- Fictional Location in the Adriatic.
FH6- Fictional Location in the Caribbean.
FH7- Fictional Location in the Balearics.

And so On. See, going Fictional does not automatically mean the End of the Franchise.

If anything will Result in Horizon 5 taking a Terminal Slam into the Armco bringing the Franchise to a Permanent and Sudden End , it Probably wont be the Location. it will most likely be the Game being another AAA, Drone-Hive, Rushed Out, Live Services, Battle Royale, Cringefest Cash Grab like 4 triggering a Massive Fanbase Boycott!. FH5 being another Woefully Sub Par Game is far more of a threat to the Survival Chances of the Horizon Franchise than a Fictional Location will ever Be.

Please note, I Personally Feel that going to Japan would also Probably cause the Franchise to take a massive, Career Ending, Nosedive into the Armco, This is because Japans Car Culture is Primarily Focussed on Elements that the majority of European Car Brands are now *Hostile* Towards, extreme Levels of Car Customisation and Illegal Street Racing.

This Means that if Japan's Car Culture is Replicated with any sort of Authenticity, there would be an *En-Masse* Protest from the European Car Manufacturers and would Result in Multiple Licence Removals! this would *Decimate* the Car List, and I am sorry, a Horizon Game that only contains 100 or so JDM Vehicles (please Remember there is a massive Difference between a JDM Car such as a 1998 Toyota Crown Super Exceed (just think Tokyo Minicab!) and a JDD (Japanese Domestic Desirable) such as a Top of the Range 1998 Toyota Century fitted with *that* V12 and the full Muffler/Cat Delete that gives it a Banshee Howl not unlike that of a Tuned 2JZ-GTE making "Fun Time" with a 7.3 Litre Mercedes-AMG M297!) that most People have never even Heard of would NOT Sell in Large Enough Numbers to Sustain the Series, it would be a Sales Disaster, most People in America and Europe couldn't give a flying Fig about JDM Cars (although many are still absolutely huge fans of JDD Cars such as the S13, 14, 15, AE86, BNR32,33,34, JZA-80 RZ, FD3/S, etc!) or Japanese "Extreme Customisation/Ricer/Bozuzaku" Car Culture, and the Japanese wouldn't buy the Game in their Place either, as Japan, and this is a Simple Fact, is extremely Protectionist, possibly even downright Xenophobic, when it comes to Gaming, meaning the Majority of Japanese Gamers will *never* buy the Xbox, or a Horizon Game, Simply because they are not made (Xbox) or Developed (Horizon) in Japan by Japanese Companies or Developers! so it would be a "niche" Game at best, and well, that's not good enough to Sustain a AAA Franchise, especially One that has taken near *Terminal* Damage with its last Two Games being *Vastly* Under-Par, like Forza Has.

On the Flip Side however, making a Version of Japan that is Inauthentic to the Car Culture in order to keep the European Brands on Board, would mean it would be Japan in Name and Aesthetic Only, at which Point there is no *point* in Going to Japan, as the main Reasons People want Japan, the Car Culture and the Mountain Road Drifting, either Cannot be Included anyway due to European Car Manufacturer Complaints, or, in the Case of Drifting, could easily be Replicated by any Decently Mountainous Country with good Driving Roads in aforesaid Mountains, causing both People who want an Authentic Japan, and People who want Horizon to Stay as far Away from Asia itself (let alone Japan) as is Humanly Possible to go up in Arms if the Location Remains as Japan, causing a Boycott that Horizon, especially with How much Damage 4 has done to the Series, just cannot Afford.

So, Japan, IMO, is every bit as much Franchise Suicide as being "Fortnite with Cars" again would be, as Awesome as that Concept Map on Reddit is, and as much as I would like to see it made Real, I feel the Location is just too much of a Risk at the Moment due to how *Hostile* the European Car Brands have become to the Main Element, Extreme levels of Car Customisation, of Japanese Car Culture, so it would, IMO, be best to leave Japan for a much Later Title that can be made when European Car Companies are either Less Paranoid about Car Customisation Damaging their PR images, or will Possibly no longer even Exist to Complain in the First Place due to the Evil Unification Possibly sending them Bankrupt by potentially Legislating their Products out of Existence as part of their "Zero Emissions" Policy, so Playground can just add the Cars in anyway by getting the Licences off the Liquidators, as the Companies wouldn't be around to complain anymore after that Potential Worst Case Scenario!

If Horizon does not go Fictional, then, well, in the Name of Franchise Survival, I feel it is Imperative to not only take Horizon back to being a Game for Real Gamers and Real Car Enthusiasts like FH2 and 3, and *never* be another Trend Chasing, Child Focussed, Toy Packed, Battle Royale AAA Cash Grab like FH4 again, but also to set it Either in Europe or America once again, as Europe and America is where the Majority of Xbox, and thus Horizon, Sales occur, and neither have a "mainstream" (Japanese Tuner Car Culture does exist in both Areas for sure, but it is *Very* Underground and is often Frowned, even Spat, upon by more Traditional, Mainstream, Sports (Europe), as we prefer our Cars to be left "Stock" , and Muscle (America) , as they are not American V8's, Car Enthusiasts) Car Culture that is likely to Upset the European Car Manufacturers and cause a mass Licence Pull out.

However, to be Honest, with all the Time Playground Spent making a Simulated Aurora Borealis and Extreme Weather for Fortune Island, I don't think they will want to see those Elements limited to just One, Poorly Received, Expansion, so Chances are, Horizon 5's location has already been Chosen and the Map (which will be Tiny as it will still need to fit into the Limitations of the Base Xbox One) has already been Developed, and, well, in total Honesty, I think we are Probably looking at Scandinavia, the very Northernmost part of Europe, and most likely Norway, as that would allow them to Re-use the Aurora Borealis and the Extreme Weather they Created for Fortune Island to the most Effect, and a *lot* of People were asking for Norway during the Run Up to FH4, with Norway being second only to Japan on the Location Wishlist.

So, IMO, if this Thread is Moot and Playground have already Developed the Map for 5, which, IMO, is Extremely Likely, I Personally think Norway is the most Probable Location. Not Japan. Sorry.

Edited by user Sunday, January 19, 2020 8:03:10 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#256 Posted : Saturday, January 18, 2020 12:25:23 PM(UTC)
S1lv1u2007.

Playground have said they will never set a Horizon Game *entirely* within the Confines of a Single City, as doing so is Extremely Generic, as it has been done to Death, Predominantly by NFS, during the PS2 and Xbox360 Era's so they are not going to do that.

Their Maps, if they don't go entirely Fictional, will remain a "Best of Album" for the Host Nations Finest Scenery and Locations, as that is One of the Series Unique Selling Points.

Although I do not doubt that FH, if it lives Long enough, will Return to Australia in future, that is, Sadly, if there is even an Australia to Return to in the Future, as, Tragically, it is looking like the Wild-Fires may potentially leave the Country "uninhabitable" due to Air Pollution, they are not likely to return to Australia *this* Soon after going there in FH3 as it would automatically be dismissed by the Increasingly Angry and Cynical Fanbase as nothing more than a "Bloated and Lazy Expansion Pack" this soon after FH3.

London was not Featured in FH4 because London City Council is *Hardline* Anti-Car and *refused* Permission for the City to be Featured, this was Revealed on a Live-Stream some months back. Given that Londons Youth are extremely Far Left Politically , it is likely that London will remain under either a Labour or Liberal Council, and thus, also Remain extremely Anti-Car, for another 20 Years, so the Chances of another Racing Game, let alone a Horizon One, Containing London ever again, are extremely Slim, as, sadly, I am not sure Racing Games will even still exist in 20 Years Time, as by then, due to the "2040 Zero Emissions" Pledges made by Car Hating Far Left Wing Governments in many Nations around the World, the Performance Car will most Probably have been Legislated out of Existence meaning there will be nothing to Put into Racing Games anymore, which could see the end of the Genre :(

So if You want to see London or Sydney in a Racing Game, Your best Bet, I am sorry to say, is to either get an OG Xbox and Project Gotham Racing 2, or an Xbox360 and Project Gotham Racing 4, out of the Attic, as neither looks likely for Horizon in the Foreseeable Future I am afraid.

Edited by user Saturday, January 18, 2020 12:41:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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 1 user liked this post.
#257 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2020 6:23:49 AM(UTC)
Saint-Petersburg - Moscow region, Russia
Rank: Driver's Permit
#258 Posted : Monday, January 20, 2020 10:33:19 PM(UTC)
I want forza horizon 5 to be set at

1.Dubai

2.Australia again in Melbourne

3.Russia
Rank: Driver's Permit
#259 Posted : Friday, January 24, 2020 10:51:37 AM(UTC)
JAPAN and I believe and I hope and pray that JAPAN will win cuz we've all wanted it to happen before FH4 came out and we were all disappointed that it didn't happen so that's why I think that the next location should be set in JAPAN and also think of all the beauty spots that JAPAN can offer and also a youtuber who I think everyone will know who he is named ericship 111 made a video called 5 features from FH4 could be linked to FH5 being set in JAPAN (and I could be wrong about the name title but I'm close to it cuz it's somewhere around that name title so I would recommend looking it up I mean he's pretty spot on about it and even in the video he says he could be wrong about he's theories on it but it just his opinions and ideas on them and also could y'all possibly please add tracks like the suzuka circuit and the fujimi kaido race tracks in FH5 that is if it were to be in JAPAN and also if that's even possible for y'all developer's but I'd be happy though if y'all were to do that but if it's impossible then I can understand cuz I know that it won't be easy to add something like a racetrack let alone 2 of them so I can understand if y'all don't add one period

Edited by user Sunday, January 26, 2020 5:27:37 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#260 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2020 1:38:09 PM(UTC)
I want forza horizon 5 to take place in these places

- Houston TX
- Austin TX
- San Francisco CA
- Chicago IL

All of these forza games have been set in smallish cities that nobody’s heard of. It needs to be in a large American city like Houston or Chicago or Austin
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#261 Posted : Saturday, February 1, 2020 11:01:20 PM(UTC)
in California
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#262 Posted : Monday, February 3, 2020 1:21:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: JOHNNY 11799 Go to Quoted Post
in California



Yes Sir! Indio, California. Coachella, the Origin of the Horizon-Festival. :)
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#263 Posted : Tuesday, February 4, 2020 4:03:26 AM(UTC)
It would seem we have all Forgotten something CRITICALLY Important.

Due to Microsoft's positively Insane Decision that all Series X Titles are also going to have to Support the Increasingly Elderly and Underpowered "Base" Xbox One , FH5 is *Going* to be Held back by the Technical Limitations of that Systems Hardware once again!

One of those Limitations is that it can only Spare 5GB of RAM for Games, so the Map is going to have to fit into only 2GB of RAM, like the Current Maps, to Spare 3GB of RAM to Run the Rest of the Game. That Means the Map, at the *Absolute Largest* via some pretty Heavy Duty WAD (Where's All the Data) Packing and Possibly some Texture Streaming, is only going to be around a rather Paltry 95 KM2, that, for Older PC Gamers on here, is around about the Same Size as "Nogova" from Operation Flashpoint Cold War Crisis- "Resistance" , showing My age there I know, but it still shows how Small 95KM2 is in comparison to Many Rival Open World Games out there.

As a Result of the Map having to remain somewhat Small due to the Technical Limitations of the Increasingly Elderly, and Laughably Underpowered even at Launch do not Forget, "Base" Xbox One Hardware that the Game is going to be Forced to Support. Surely it would be a better idea to look for Logical Locations that

1. are Not Generic beyond all Belief (California, and to Lesser Extent the Rest of the United States, has been done to Death by every other Open World Racing Game out there, it is a Massively Generic Location, and one that Playground Games themselves have Stated, in their Dev Diaries for both Horizons 2 and 3 that they have *No* intention of Using due to how Generic it is, they have also Stated an *extreme* Reluctance to Revisit the United States as they consider the Location "Boring" as it has been done by too many Rival Games.) and is a Location that is either Rarely Seen in Racing Games, or has never been Seen before in the Open World Racing Game Genre so as to keep Up Horizons tendency, started with 2, to go to Unexpected and Unusual Locations as one of the Games Unique Selling Points.

2. Will not be too Demanding on the Extremely Underpowered AMD Jaguar 8 CPU (which has to handle the Graphics as well as everything Else on Base Xbox One and S, only X and Series X have the Benefit of a Dedicated GPU) and thus will not have any Complicated Lighting or Multi-layered Textures (so that's Japan out I am afraid, as Base Xbox One just wouldn't be able to handle the Complicated Lighting and Textures the City-Scape part of the Map would need) that the Jaguar 8 just would not be able to Handle, causing either Severe Frame Rate Issues, or the System to just up and Hard-Crash due to the CPU being Overloaded resulting in bad Reviews and a very Unhappy Playerbase!

3. Would also allow for the Maximum Possible Diversity of Road Design, Environmental Biomes, and Natural Splendour (remember, the Bigger the City, the Smaller the Map due to the RAM being Clogged by the massive amount of Textures and Clutter that a City Scape Requires, so Horizon is Predominantly Rural, not only because its more Beautiful and allows for More Vista Spots, but also because it takes up less Room in the RAM allowing for a Bigger, around 70-80 KM2, Map) for the Player to Enjoy within a Maximum 95 KM2 Footprint. After all a Diverse and Beautiful Map with a Good Diversity of Road Types and High Quality Road Layout Design was a Unique Selling Point for Horizons 2 and 3, and was a USP that was lost with 4's rather Plain and Monotonous Environment and Poor Road Layout Design, which is what makes the Games version of the UK feel very Disappointing indeed as it offers barely even an Iota of the Real Life Splendour Environmental Diversity or incredible Driving Roads that are available in the UK. FH5 Needs a Diverse, Beautiful Map with a large amount of Road Variety with well Designed Road Layouts in order to Restore that lost Unique Selling Point to the Series and Prevent a situation from occurring where Players chose not to Buy the Game due to it having another Plain and Monotonous Map with poor Road Design and Variety.

4. is not cursed by a Car Culture that contains a large Number of Elements, such as a Strong Bias Towards Illegal Street Racing or Car Customisation that a lot of European Brands are now Hostile to in the Extreme, Potentially triggering a mass Revocation of Licences, absolutely Decimating the Car List (so that's basically anywhere in Asia out of the Window unless the Car Culture there is not Replicated, at which Point they may as well just set the Game in Blackpool as it will have pretty much the Same Aesthetic Effect!) and is not a Location that is going to Anger an Increasingly Angry, Paranoid and often extremely Racial Western Playerbase, causing a User Base Boycott that the Series just cannot Afford as there is no Doubt that Consumer Dissatisfaction with FH4 (which is pretty Rife) is going to lead to very poor Sales on FH5 at Launch, meaning the Game cannot afford a Decimated Car list or a Location that is going to Anger an Increasingly Unpleasant General Public to Compound the inevitably Initially Poor Sales of FH5 at Launch with a Boycott!

Remember, despite all the Joking around and Silly Gimmicks In the Live Streams, and the Increasingly Childish, Immature and Dumbed Down nature of FH4 (something that, I, Personally believe, along with the Live Services Model, has been Forced On Playground against their Will by their American Corporate Overlords, it would certainly explain all the Staff Walkouts they have been suffering lately, and why the Game feels increasingly like the Product of a Depressed and Burned out AAA Drone Hive that just cannot be bothered to do a good Job anymore) Playground Games are Professional Game Developers, and have been to *Top* Universities in order to learn their Jobs!

If we want them to take us even *Remotely* Seriously and actually Listen to us, We need to think and Act like Professional Game Developers and come up with Locations based, not on Fanboyism for that setting, or because it is Our Homeland, and instead come up with Locations based on Practical and Professional Considerations such as . Unique Selling Points (so a "Non Generic" Location) Hardware Limits, Car Company Licencing Concerns and Potential Userbase Reaction! as well as a List as to why that Location has been Chosen, based, again, on a Mix of Unique Selling Points, Hardware Limitations on the "Base" Xbox One and Entry Level PC/Laptop Systems (Remember, not every PC has the Luxury of Having a Ryzen Threadripper and an RTX 2080Ti to Play with!) , Car Company Licencing Issues, and Potential Userbase Reaction!

Come on People! We need to "Up Our Game" if we want to be Listened to!

Or do You actually want a Live Services, Online Multiplayer Only, Battle Royale Focussed, "Fortnite with Cars" set in India? because that is what We are Probably going to get unless we can Convince Playground that we know better than their apparently, at Least in My Personal Opinion increasingly Burned out Design Team (Lego Toys, ever more Gimmicky and Childish Cosmetics and Emotes, and Battle Royale being added smacks to Me Personally of a Studio who are completely out of Ideas, are thoroughly Burned out, and are Desperately trying to come up with any sort of New Content at all in order to appease their Corporate Overlords Hunger for Constant, Anti Consumer, Live Services Updates every Month) and their Corporate Mandarins in the Boardroom in Wall-Street and are actually Worth Listening to!

Edited by user Tuesday, February 4, 2020 4:36:31 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 4/18/2020 9:17:19 PM(UTC)
#264 Posted : Tuesday, February 4, 2020 7:24:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: King Cobra Mi6 Go to Quoted Post
It would seem we have all Forgotten something CRITICALLY Important.

Due to Microsoft's positively Insane Decision that all Series X Titles are also going to have to Support the Increasingly Elderly and Underpowered "Base" Xbox One , FH5 is *Going* to be Held back by the Technical Limitations of that Systems Hardware once again!

One of those Limitations is that it can only Spare 5GB of RAM for Games, so the Map is going to have to fit into only 2GB of RAM, like the Current Maps, to Spare 3GB of RAM to Run the Rest of the Game. That Means the Map, at the *Absolute Largest* via some pretty Heavy Duty WAD (Where's All the Data) Packing and Possibly some Texture Streaming, is only going to be around a rather Paltry 95 KM2, that, for Older PC Gamers on here, is around about the Same Size as "Nogova" from Operation Flashpoint Cold War Crisis- "Resistance" , showing My age there I know, but it still shows how Small 95KM2 is in comparison to Many Rival Open World Games out there.

As a Result of the Map having to remain somewhat Small due to the Technical Limitations of the Increasingly Elderly, and Laughably Underpowered even at Launch do not Forget, "Base" Xbox One Hardware that the Game is going to be Forced to Support. Surely it would be a better idea to look for Logical Locations that

1. are Not Generic beyond all Belief (California, and to Lesser Extent the Rest of the United States, has been done to Death by every other Open World Racing Game out there, it is a Massively Generic Location, and one that Playground Games themselves have Stated, in their Dev Diaries for both Horizons 2 and 3 that they have *No* intention of Using due to how Generic it is, they have also Stated an *extreme* Reluctance to Revisit the United States as they consider the Location "Boring" as it has been done by too many Rival Games.) and is a Location that is either Rarely Seen in Racing Games, or has never been Seen before in the Open World Racing Game Genre so as to keep Up Horizons tendency, started with 2, to go to Unexpected and Unusual Locations as one of the Games Unique Selling Points.

2. Will not be too Demanding on the Extremely Underpowered AMD Jaguar 8 CPU (which has to handle the Graphics as well as everything Else on Base Xbox One and S, only X and Series X have the Benefit of a Dedicated GPU) and thus will not have any Complicated Lighting or Multi-layered Textures (so that's Japan out I am afraid, as Base Xbox One just wouldn't be able to handle the Complicated Lighting and Textures the City-Scape part of the Map would need) that the Jaguar 8 just would not be able to Handle, causing either Severe Frame Rate Issues, or the System to just up and Hard-Crash due to the CPU being Overloaded resulting in bad Reviews and a very Unhappy Playerbase!

3. Would also allow for the Maximum Possible Diversity of Road Design, Environmental Biomes, and Natural Splendour (remember, the Bigger the City, the Smaller the Map due to the RAM being Clogged by the massive amount of Textures and Clutter that a City Scape Requires, so Horizon is Predominantly Rural, not only because its more Beautiful and allows for More Vista Spots, but also because it takes up less Room in the RAM allowing for a Bigger, around 70-80 KM2, Map) for the Player to Enjoy within a Maximum 95 KM2 Footprint. After all a Diverse and Beautiful Map with a Good Diversity of Road Types and High Quality Road Layout Design was a Unique Selling Point for Horizons 2 and 3, and was a USP that was lost with 4's rather Plain and Monotonous Environment and Poor Road Layout Design, which is what makes the Games version of the UK feel very Disappointing indeed as it offers barely even an Iota of the Real Life Splendour Environmental Diversity or incredible Driving Roads that are available in the UK. FH5 Needs a Diverse, Beautiful Map with a large amount of Road Variety with well Designed Road Layouts in order to Restore that lost Unique Selling Point to the Series and Prevent a situation from occurring where Players chose not to Buy the Game due to it having another Plain and Monotonous Map with poor Road Design and Variety.

4. is not cursed by a Car Culture that contains a large Number of Elements, such as a Strong Bias Towards Illegal Street Racing or Car Customisation that a lot of European Brands are now Hostile to in the Extreme, Potentially triggering a mass Revocation of Licences, absolutely Decimating the Car List (so that's basically anywhere in Asia out of the Window unless the Car Culture there is not Replicated, at which Point they may as well just set the Game in Blackpool as it will have pretty much the Same Aesthetic Effect!) and is not a Location that is going to Anger an Increasingly Angry, Paranoid and often extremely Racial Western Playerbase, causing a User Base Boycott that the Series just cannot Afford as there is no Doubt that Consumer Dissatisfaction with FH4 (which is pretty Rife) is going to lead to very poor Sales on FH5 at Launch, meaning the Game cannot afford a Decimated Car list or a Location that is going to Anger an Increasingly Unpleasant General Public to Compound the inevitably Initially Poor Sales of FH5 at Launch with a Boycott!

Remember, despite all the Joking around and Silly Gimmicks In the Live Streams, and the Increasingly Childish, Immature and Dumbed Down nature of FH4 (something that, I, Personally believe, along with the Live Services Model, has been Forced On Playground against their Will by their American Corporate Overlords, it would certainly explain all the Staff Walkouts they have been suffering lately, and why the Game feels increasingly like the Product of a Depressed and Burned out AAA Drone Hive that just cannot be bothered to do a good Job anymore) Playground Games are Professional Game Developers, and have been to *Top* Universities in order to learn their Jobs!

If we want them to take us even *Remotely* Seriously and actually Listen to us, We need to think and Act like Professional Game Developers and come up with Locations based, not on Fanboyism for that setting, or because it is Our Homeland, and instead come up with Locations based on Practical and Professional Considerations such as . Unique Selling Points (so a "Non Generic" Location) Hardware Limits, Car Company Licencing Concerns and Potential Userbase Reaction! as well as a List as to why that Location has been Chosen, based, again, on a Mix of Unique Selling Points, Hardware Limitations on the "Base" Xbox One and Entry Level PC/Laptop Systems (Remember, not every PC has the Luxury of Having a Ryzen Threadripper and an RTX 2080Ti to Play with!) , Car Company Licencing Issues, and Potential Userbase Reaction!

Come on People! We need to "Up Our Game" if we want to be Listened to!

Or do You actually want a Live Services, Online Multiplayer Only, Battle Royale Focussed, "Fortnite with Cars" set in India? because that is what We are Probably going to get unless we can Convince Playground that we know better than their apparently, at Least in My Personal Opinion increasingly Burned out Design Team (Lego Toys, ever more Gimmicky and Childish Cosmetics and Emotes, and Battle Royale being added smacks to Me Personally of a Studio who are completely out of Ideas, are thoroughly Burned out, and are Desperately trying to come up with any sort of New Content at all in order to appease their Corporate Overlords Hunger for Constant, Anti Consumer, Live Services Updates every Month) and their Corporate Mandarins in the Boardroom in Wall-Street and are actually Worth Listening to!


Nice conspiracy theories, but no, judging by the things that have been said about FM8 to date i doubt the games will be dragged down, especially when theyre supposed to showcase the new xbox, the most probable scenario is that the xone FH5 will be heavily graphically and resolution downgraded, basically it will look worse in terms of textures just hidden over massive lightning like GTA san andreas did on the PS2, and if horizon was to be in japan i doubt they would implement any of the car culture as the last games werent relevant to any of the respective countries car scene, but given the appearance of aurora borealis in fortune island i think we will get either scandinavia or canada with the former being the more likely
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#265 Posted : Tuesday, February 4, 2020 12:26:07 PM(UTC)
They are not Conspiracy Theories, they are Programming Facts, I have been involved in the....*Ahem* Third Party Content... Scene for Gaming for quite some Years, so I know a fair bit about Programming, other parts are Marketing Facts, Remember, I have a Degree in Business and Marketing (which I cannot use as I am classed as Unemployable... sometimes Life absolutely Sucks!) , so, I know a bit about how Markets think.

As a Result I am afraid to Say that I still Personally believe that Horizon 5 is going to be held back in Terms of the Size of its Map and the Skill and Number of the Drivatars in the Races, it wont just be Graphically Downgraded on the One/S Systems, I think the Game, on all Systems, will Suffer from a Small Map , Poor AI and Low Racer Numbers due to the RAM and APU Limitations on the Base Xbox One and the Same "base Game" core Code being used across all Platforms.

Yes, there is no Doubt there is going to be a Massive Downgrade on the Xbox One Versions Graphically, but again, when You have to build around a Really Low End System like the base Xbox One, You still have to consider that Systems Limitations when Designing the base Game core Code. If the base Game is so Demanding that the basic Systems cannot Run it Properly even when the Graphics have been dialled back so far that the Developers have to create Special "below even Low" Textures (like, say, Machine Games had to for the Xbox 360 and PS3 Versions of Wolfenstein: The New Order back in 2014) then You need to reduce the Demands of the base Game at the core Code Level, that can mean that certain Highly Demanding elements, such as a Modern City Scape (all the Vertices needed to create the Skeletal Meshes for the Skyscrapers, even if the Textures over them are as Limited and as Simple as Possible, are still going to absolutely Hammer the Jaguar 8 APU in a base Xbox One into Submission) will have to be Dialled back, across *all* Systems, until is it at a Point where the "Base" System can Cope! Meaning the City is either going to have to be Extremely Small (Surfers Paradise), or Removed Entirely, and that will affect all Platforms as Playground, to Save Time and Money, will use the same Map, heck the same base Game core Code in its Entirety! across all Versions of the Game) so I still think that Map Size and Location Choice will be Heavily Impacted by the Technical Limitations of the basic Xbox One across all Systems.

I really do think, like You, that the main Differences between the Series X and the Base One will be Purely Graphical, say with the Base One using Special "Below Low" Textures (or a Medium- High Mix on "One X") , Basic and Simple Lighting (but with Dynamic Shadow Casting and some Global Illumination on One X in 30FPS Quality Mode) a 30 FPS Cap and a 1080P Resolution, possibly with some Resolution Scaling that can drop the Game to 900P or even 720P in High APU Demand areas.

Series X meantime, IMO will only really be blessed with High/Ultra Textures, Hardware Ray Tracing (IF RT will even work on a Hardware Level on an AMD GPU, something I Personally have Severe Doubts about, don't get Me wrong, AMD are absolutely Mopping the Floor with Intel on the CPU front right now with Ryzen and that is great to See, but GPU wise they are lagging a good Decade or more behind NVidia IMO, and I Personally think, as a result, that "Hardware" RT is going to be beyond them, so Hardware RT could end up being Exclusive to the PC Version for PC's with NVidia RTX Cards and the RT on Series X will be a Software Accelerated Emulated Version that operates only on the most basic of Levels) support for up to 8K Resolution (but, with 8K TV's costing up to £70,000 (when even a Game Project Lead only gets £30,000 a Year Salary!) the Marketer in Me just doesn't see very many People using 8K on a Console, as People with *that* absolutely *Obscene* kind of Monetary Income either don't Play Games at all as they are too busy being Businessmen, or, if they do, they tend to go with a Custom Built PC, so most Console Users will stick with 1080P or 4K, at which Point they may as well stick with One-S / X!) and support for 60FPS at 4K/8K Resolutions with Dynamic Shadow Casting also working at 60FPS on Series X rather then being limited to 30FPS "Quality" Mode like on Xbox One X.

Everything else however In My Onion, such as the Small (95KM2 Tops) Map, the Brain Dead "Drivatar's" , only 12 Cars in Races (that is if the Game even *has* Races and isn't just "The Eliminator" Battle Royale mode and nothing else, as I just would not put it past an American Wall Street AAA Megacorporate like Microsoft to Pull that kind of Garbage!) and rather Simplistic Environment Topography that are Holding Horizon back due to the Limitations of the base Xbox One Hardware will Still be Present on all Systems in FH5 as everything outside the Graphics will most likely be built around the Lowest End System, the base Xbox One, because that is how Games are Programmed! , the basic Game itself is always built around the base entry Level System as CPU and RAM limitations do not Scale, so the base Game has to be built around the Lowest Common Denominator as the base Game core Code cannot Power-Scale, and only the Graphics, as they, unlike the base Game core Code, can be Scaled to the Abilities of Certain CPU/APU and (when Applicable) GPU Combinations, are used to Showcase the Power of Higher End Systems such as a Top Range PC or the Forthcoming Series X.

Again, You just cannot really pack more than 95KM2 into just 2GB of SD-RAM, it is a Programming Impossibility! So if they are using "Solid Data" in the RAM for the Map again like they have with the Previous 3 Horizon Games, and this one, then that 2GB Cap is going to stay in Place, and again, You are absolutely Pushing the Limits of that Cap to get 95KM2 in there! as I said, it may even need dot WAD (Where's All the Data) File Compression to some Degree to pack even 95KM2 into that Small an amount of RAM.

I mean, if they used Direct Data Streaming to Stream Map Data directly to the APU/GPU (Dependant on Console) in say, 60KM2 Chunks, and Bypassing the RAM entirely, then Yes, they could break the RAM Limits and have a Map Limited basically by little more than keeping it within a Sensible Install File Size, (With Data Streaming You could easily do, say, the whole of the Evil Unification at a 1:1 Scale even on a base Xbox One, but the Install File would Probably be bigger than what the actual Hard Drive has Space for, so around 30GB Max for the Map would be Sensible as part of the Typical 100GB Total "Day 1" Install File Size for a Modern AAA Game, which is around about 320-340 KM2 at Forza's typical Level of Environment Detail) but the Questions are 1, will the New Engine (and will it even have one? Will Playground use the New Engine from FM8? or will they stick with the Tried and Tested Forzatech Engine that they have used since FH1?) actually Support Data Streaming? and 2, are Playground actually Capable of Implementing it even if it does? I am afraid that with all the absolute Foul Ups they have made in FH4, (such as breaking the Camera Angles at Players Homes back when they added the Lego Toy rubbish and they *still* have not Fixed them!) I have to question their current level of Effort making a bit as they, at least IMO, seemingly become more and more Depressed, Burned out, and unable to be "bothered" with each Update and due to the Number of Staff Members who have upped and Quit recently!

I honestly think that Playground are going to Stick with running the Map in the RAM with "Solid Data" , limiting the Map to 95KM2 at the Most, and more Likely 75KM2 going on Previous Horizon Games (2 3 and 4 are all around about 75KM2 in terms of Map Size) due to the RAM limitations of the base Xbox One and the use of the same base Game core Code across all Systems.

Now, with Japan, My Marketing mind tells Me that going to Japan and not doing the Car Culture would be an absolute utter Disaster! the Majority of People who want Japan want it for One Reason, and One Reason Only, the Car Culture, so if they do Japan without doing the Car Culture, which they cannot do, because, as Mentioned, it would cause a mass Licencing Pull out from the European Manufacturers, those Users will Boycott as the Game will be "Japan in Name only" ! Meantime there are a lot of users who don't want the Game to go to Japan (or even Asia!) at all, Because they do not like Drifting or they Do not like big City-Scapes or they think the Location is too Generic, or they think there would be too much Traffic, and who will be very Angry indeed, to the point of, again, a Boycott, if the Game goes to Japan, a Location they want nothing to do with, when, without the Car Culture, it could have just as Easily gone to a Location that would have been more inline with their Whims, such as, Say, Germany, which a lot of users want for "Das Autobahn". (The Mention of which has gone and lead to Me listening to Kraftwerk wile I type the Rest of this. Great Music!, I would Love to hear them on Horizon Pulse one Day! 22 Minute Skill Song! ) Instead. Going to Japan, IMO, would be a Marketing Disaster.

Like You, I do think that Horizon 5, if the Location has already been Chosen, is most likely going to be Set in either Norway or Canada.

As I put in an Earlier Comment, I don't see Playground being willing to let all that Hard Work they put into a Fully Dynamic, Simulated, Aurora Borealis go to waste in a Single, Poorly Received, Expansion Pack, and both Norway and Canada have been heavily Requested, (along with Japan and California) on these Forums and in their YouTube and Mixer Channel comments. However I am not sure which of those Two Locations they will go with, as Canada's large Number of Modern Cities (Skyscrapers) , and Norway's extremely Rugged and Mountainous Terrain, will be absolutely Punishing on the Elderly AMD Jaguar 8 APU (which was never designed for Gaming in the First Place!) in the base Xbox One due to the sheer Number of Vertices it would have to calculate for both of them. Canada, so long as they stuck mostly to the Flat Forest and Farmland Areas and only did a Small, heavily cut down, Version of Montreal (similar to how FH3 handled Surfers Paradise) , might just about be within the Abilities of the base Xbox One.... but... that would be very Generic and rather too Similar to America... so I just do not know what they will Decide.

Again, that is if Microsoft doesn't Demand the Game is just "The Eliminator" and Nothing Else (and again, I would not be Surprised in the Slightest if they did exactly that, they are an American Mega Corporate that is controlled by Wall Street investors at the End of the Day, and are just "Activi$ion by any other Name", same as every other AAA American Wall Street Megacorp Game Publisher, be it Taken all Your Money 2, Evil Alliance, Bugthesda, whoever!) , at which point they may as well set it on the Moon! I don't know, maybe I am just a bit Burned out by AAA-Itus and am just being Negative about Everything. It wont be the First Time I have done that!

It will be interesting to see where they Go, but I really do think the Limitations of the base Xbox One, outside of the Massive Graphical Downgrade that System is going to need compared to the Series X Version, is still going to have a Massive Impact on their Choice of Location, and the Size of the Map, due to a Unified Core Code, and the Sheer number of Hardware Limitations Inherent on such an Underpowered System, as, again, core Base Game Code does not Scale to Processing Power, only Graphics do, so the Map Size and Location Topography will be Restricted by the Hardware Limitations of the base Xbox One across all Systems. That is simply just how Games are Developed these Days.

Edited by user Tuesday, February 4, 2020 1:12:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 4/18/2020 9:17:19 PM(UTC)
#266 Posted : Tuesday, February 4, 2020 1:31:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: King Cobra Mi6 Go to Quoted Post
They are not Conspiracy Theories, they are Programming Facts, I have been involved in the....*Ahem* Third Party Content... Scene for Gaming for quite some Years, so I know a fair bit about Programming, other parts are Marketing Facts, Remember, I have a Degree in Business and Marketing (which I cannot use as I am classed as Unemployable... sometimes Life absolutely Sucks!) , so, I know a bit about how Markets think.

As a Result I am afraid to Say that I still Personally believe that Horizon 5 is going to be held back in Terms of the Size of its Map and the Skill and Number of the Drivatars in the Races, it wont just be Graphically Downgraded on the One/S Systems, I think the Game, on all Systems, will Suffer from a Small Map , Poor AI and Low Racer Numbers due to the RAM and APU Limitations on the Base Xbox One and the Same "base Game" core Code being used across all Platforms.

Yes, there is no Doubt there is going to be a Massive Downgrade on the Xbox One Versions Graphically, but again, when You have to build around a Really Low End System like the base Xbox One, You still have to consider that Systems Limitations when Designing the base Game core Code. If the base Game is so Demanding that the basic Systems cannot Run it Properly even when the Graphics have been dialled back so far that the Developers have to create Special "below even Low" Textures (like, say, Machine Games had to for the Xbox 360 and PS3 Versions of Wolfenstein: The New Order back in 2014) then You need to reduce the Demands of the base Game at the core Code Level, that can mean that certain Highly Demanding elements, such as a Modern City Scape (all the Vertices needed to create the Skeletal Meshes for the Skyscrapers, even if the Textures over them are as Limited and as Simple as Possible, are still going to absolutely Hammer the Jaguar 8 APU in a base Xbox One into Submission) will have to be Dialled back, across *all* Systems, until is it at a Point where the "Base" System can Cope! Meaning the City is either going to have to be Extremely Small (Surfers Paradise), or Removed Entirely, and that will affect all Platforms as Playground, to Save Time and Money, will use the same Map, heck the same base Game core Code in its Entirety! across all Versions of the Game) so I still think that Map Size and Location Choice will be Heavily Impacted by the Technical Limitations of the basic Xbox One across all Systems.

I really do think, like You, that the main Differences between the Series X and the Base One will be Purely Graphical, say with the Base One using Special "Below Low" Textures (or a Medium- High Mix on "One X") , Basic and Simple Lighting (but with Dynamic Shadow Casting and some Global Illumination on One X in 30FPS Quality Mode) a 30 FPS Cap and a 1080P Resolution, possibly with some Resolution Scaling that can drop the Game to 900P or even 720P in High APU Demand areas.

Series X meantime, IMO will only really be blessed with High/Ultra Textures, Hardware Ray Tracing (IF RT will even work on a Hardware Level on an AMD GPU, something I Personally have Severe Doubts about, don't get Me wrong, AMD are absolutely Mopping the Floor with Intel on the CPU front right now with Ryzen and that is great to See, but GPU wise they are lagging a good Decade or more behind NVidia IMO, and I Personally think, as a result, that "Hardware" RT is going to be beyond them, so Hardware RT could end up being Exclusive to the PC Version for PC's with NVidia RTX Cards and the RT on Series X will be a Software Accelerated Emulated Version that operates only on the most basic of Levels) support for up to 8K Resolution (but, with 8K TV's costing up to £70,000 (when even a Game Project Lead only gets £30,000 a Year Salary!) the Marketer in Me just doesn't see very many People using 8K on a Console, as People with *that* absolutely *Obscene* kind of Monetary Income either don't Play Games at all as they are too busy being Businessmen, or, if they do, they tend to go with a Custom Built PC, so most Console Users will stick with 1080P or 4K, at which Point they may as well stick with One-S / X!) and support for 60FPS at 4K/8K Resolutions with Dynamic Shadow Casting also working at 60FPS on Series X rather then being limited to 30FPS "Quality" Mode like on Xbox One X.

Everything else however In My Onion, such as the Small (95KM2 Tops) Map, the Brain Dead "Drivatar's" , only 12 Cars in Races (that is if the Game even *has* Races and isn't just "The Eliminator" Battle Royale mode and nothing else, as I just would not put it past an American Wall Street AAA Megacorporate like Microsoft to Pull that kind of Garbage!) and rather Simplistic Environment Topography that are Holding Horizon back due to the Limitations of the base Xbox One Hardware will Still be Present on all Systems in FH5 as everything outside the Graphics will most likely be built around the Lowest End System, the base Xbox One, because that is how Games are Programmed! , the basic Game itself is always built around the base entry Level System as CPU and RAM limitations do not Scale, so the base Game has to be built around the Lowest Common Denominator as the base Game core Code cannot Power-Scale, and only the Graphics, as they, unlike the base Game core Code, can be Scaled to the Abilities of Certain CPU/APU and (when Applicable) GPU Combinations, are used to Showcase the Power of Higher End Systems such as a Top Range PC or the Forthcoming Series X.

Again, You just cannot really pack more than 95KM2 into just 2GB of SD-RAM, it is a Programming Impossibility! So if they are using "Solid Data" in the RAM for the Map again like they have with the Previous 3 Horizon Games, and this one, then that 2GB Cap is going to stay in Place, and again, You are absolutely Pushing the Limits of that Cap to get 95KM2 in there! as I said, it may even need dot WAD (Where's All the Data) File Compression to some Degree to pack even 95KM2 into that Small an amount of RAM.

I mean, if they used Direct Data Streaming to Stream Map Data directly to the APU/GPU (Dependant on Console) in say, 60KM2 Chunks, and Bypassing the RAM entirely, then Yes, they could break the RAM Limits and have a Map Limited basically by little more than keeping it within a Sensible Install File Size, (With Data Streaming You could easily do, say, the whole of the Evil Unification at a 1:1 Scale even on a base Xbox One, but the Install File would Probably be bigger than what the actual Hard Drive has Space for, so around 30GB Max for the Map would be Sensible as part of the Typical 100GB Total "Day 1" Install File Size for a Modern AAA Game, which is around about 320-340 KM2 at Forza's typical Level of Environment Detail) but the Questions are 1, will the New Engine (and will it even have one? Will Playground use the New Engine from FM8? or will they stick with the Tried and Tested Forzatech Engine that they have used since FH1?) actually Support Data Streaming? and 2, are Playground actually Capable of Implementing it even if it does? I am afraid that with all the absolute Foul Ups they have made in FH4, (such as breaking the Camera Angles at Players Homes back when they added the Lego Toy rubbish and they *still* have not Fixed them!) I have to question their current level of Effort making a bit as they, at least IMO, seemingly become more and more Depressed, Burned out, and unable to be "bothered" with each Update and due to the Number of Staff Members who have upped and Quit recently!

I honestly think that Playground are going to Stick with running the Map in the RAM with "Solid Data" , limiting the Map to 95KM2 at the Most, and more Likely 75KM2 going on Previous Horizon Games (2 3 and 4 are all around about 75KM2 in terms of Map Size) due to the RAM limitations of the base Xbox One and the use of the same base Game core Code across all Systems.

Now, with Japan, My Marketing mind tells Me that going to Japan and not doing the Car Culture would be an absolute utter Disaster! the Majority of People who want Japan want it for One Reason, and One Reason Only, the Car Culture, so if they do Japan without doing the Car Culture, which they cannot do, because, as Mentioned, it would cause a mass Licencing Pull out from the European Manufacturers, those Users will Boycott as the Game will be "Japan in Name only" ! Meantime there are a lot of users who don't want the Game to go to Japan (or even Asia!) at all, Because they do not like Drifting or they Do not like big City-Scapes or they think the Location is too Generic, or they think there would be too much Traffic, and who will be very Angry indeed, to the point of, again, a Boycott, if the Game goes to Japan, a Location they want nothing to do with, when, without the Car Culture, it could have just as Easily gone to a Location that would have been more inline with their Whims, such as, Say, Germany, which a lot of users want for "Das Autobahn". (The Mention of which has gone and lead to Me listening to Kraftwerk wile I type the Rest of this. Great Music!, I would Love to hear them on Horizon Pulse one Day! 22 Minute Skill Song! ) Instead. Going to Japan, IMO, would be a Marketing Disaster.

Like You, I do think that Horizon 5, if the Location has already been Chosen, is most likely going to be Set in either Norway or Canada.

As I put in an Earlier Comment, I don't see Playground being willing to let all that Hard Work they put into a Fully Dynamic, Simulated, Aurora Borealis go to waste in a Single, Poorly Received, Expansion Pack, and both Norway and Canada have been heavily Requested, (along with Japan and California) on these Forums and in their YouTube and Mixer Channel comments. However I am not sure which of those Two Locations they will go with, as Canada's large Number of Modern Cities (Skyscrapers) , and Norway's extremely Rugged and Mountainous Terrain, will be absolutely Punishing on the Elderly AMD Jaguar 8 APU (which was never designed for Gaming in the First Place!) in the base Xbox One due to the sheer Number of Vertices it would have to calculate for both of them. Canada, so long as they stuck mostly to the Flat Forest and Farmland Areas and only did a Small, heavily cut down, Version of Montreal (similar to how FH3 handled Surfers Paradise) , might just about be within the Abilities of the base Xbox One.... but... that would be very Generic and rather too Similar to America... so I just do not know what they will Decide.

Again, that is if Microsoft doesn't Demand the Game is just "The Eliminator" and Nothing Else (and again, I would not be Surprised in the Slightest if they did exactly that, they are an American Mega Corporate that is controlled by Wall Street investors at the End of the Day, and are just "Activi$ion by any other Name", same as every other AAA American Wall Street Megacorp Game Publisher, be it Taken all Your Money 2, Evil Alliance, Bugthesda, whoever!) , at which point they may as well set it on the Moon! I don't know, maybe I am just a bit Burned out by AAA-Itus and am just being Negative about Everything. It wont be the First Time I have done that!

It will be interesting to see where they Go, but I really do think the Limitations of the base Xbox One, outside of the Massive Graphical Downgrade that System is going to need compared to the Series X Version, is still going to have a Massive Impact on their Choice of Location, and the Size of the Map, due to a Unified Core Code, and the Sheer number of Hardware Limitations Inherent on such an Underpowered System, as, again, core Base Game Code does not Scale to Processing Power, only Graphics do, so the Map Size and Location Topography will be Restricted by the Hardware Limitations of the base Xbox One across all Systems. That is simply just how Games are Developed these Days.


This is too depressing of a scenario, my gues is the one versions will be half streamed with the Xcloud theyve been pushing, or it will be like the xbox 360 version of FH2 where the map is smaller/less detailed and used FH1 base code, FH5 has to promote series X, i doubt they will let xone get in the way, theyll probably just put most of the game behind xcloud with a smaller download size, your expertise at marketing means nothing if you arent a PG employee
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#267 Posted : Wednesday, February 5, 2020 12:13:55 PM(UTC)
I am sorry if I have Depressed You, that is not My Intention, My only Intention is to Educate.

I am afraid to say Game streaming will Probably not Happen, we have all Seen how Disastrous "Game Streaming" has been with the "Google Stadia" due to its combination of Random Disconnects, bad Graphics, Extreme levels of Frame Stutter and genuinely Poor Frame Rate Performance, and Shocking Controller Lag. Stadia has *Rapidly* become an industry Laughing Stock.

There is also the fact XCloud has already shown itself to be completely Unfit for Game Streaming with the One X, as it is incredibly Prone to Random Disconnects, and has an Extremely Poor Synchronisation Speed, the Cloud is infamous for taking Upwards of 20 Minutes to Sync! it has shown It is Not Fit for Game Streaming in the Slightest as it is too Slow and Too Unreliable.

As a Result, XCloud, if it is not Dropped Entirely, will most probably remain in its current form where it is used purely for the Download of Digital Games, DRM Authentication and for "Back up" Copies of Peoples Saves.

It is not Fit for Game Streaming, and MS is not going to want Series X to be an 8K Stadia, they do not want it to be an Industry Laughing Stock, so that means Game Streaming is *Out* because Game Streaming, due to the complete Failure of the Google Stadia, has become viewed by the Industry and Game Consumers alike as a *very* bad Joke.

There is also the Consumer issue, Gamers do *not* like being "Always Online" even to Play in Single Player mode, so they are becoming ever more Vocal about "Always Online DRM" and are Starting to Boycott Games that require them to be Online just to Play Single Player, due to how often the Games tend to "Disconnect" and leave them Unable to Play at all. Many Gamers are now Refusing to Play Games that Require them to be Online, or if they do Play them, they are now tending to get a Properly Offline Version via.....shall we call them "PC Exclusive means of Alternative Acquisition" ? so a System, like Streaming, that Naturally requires Gamers to be Online just to Play Single Player, is going to fall afoul of that Boycott and then some!

Gamers are also becoming *increasingly* angry and Vocal about "Not owning their Games" anymore and only Owning a "Licence to Play them" and are, again, starting to Boycott DRM Enabled Games Entirely, and only Purchase Games that are DRM free and that they actually Own as a Result! so a Streamed Game, with only the "Licence to Play" on the Install Disk or in the Downloaded File, with the actual Game itself on a Server that can be Shut Down at the Whim of the Publisher leaving the Player with nothing but a £100 Coaster to Remember the Game with is, again, going to get Boycotted!

There is also too much risk of an "Online Only Game" becoming an "Online MUTLIPLAYER Only Game" , I, as You can tell, have a Great Fear of Horizon 5 being a Purely Multiplayer only Game that features only the "The Eliminator" Battle Royale mode, and if MS makes FH5 Online Only, there is an unacceptably High Risk in My Opinion of them Deciding to make it a Battle Royale only Game like Activi$ion did with Black Ops 4. So, as a Single Player Only Gamer, I will fight every Single Attempt Microsoft makes at sending FH5 "Always Online" with every Single Ounce of Strength that I can Muster!

Sadly there will not be a Cut Down "Special" Version of Forza Horizon 5 for Ones like there was a Cut Down "Special" Version of FH2 for the 360.

Microsoft have Confirmed at CES that the base Game core Code will be "Unified" on all future Xbox Titles, so it will be the *Exact* same Code used on all Platforms, be they base Xbox One or Series X, the exact same Game code will be used for both Platforms.

As a result of this Positively *Insane* Policy, FH5, even on Series X, *will* be Held back in terms of Map Size, Map Complexity, Drivatar Skill, Per Race Drivatar Numbers and Traffic Levels due to the base Game code needing to fit within the extremely poor APU and RAM Limitations of the base Xbox One, because the Games core Code will be the *exact* same on both base Xbox One and on Series X. The Game *will* be held back, that has now been all but Confirmed, at CES, by Microsoft themselves. There is nothing we can do now except put up with the fact the base Xbox One and the extreme Limitations of its APU and RAM will have a Severe and Negative impact on the Map Size, Map Complexity, Drivatar Skill, Per Race Drivatar Numbers and Traffic Levels in FH5 on Series X. This is so the same Physical Disk can be used for all Xbox Consoles, meaning that the Game will be the Exact Same, Except for its Graphical Settings naturally, regardless of if the Disk is inserted into a base Xbox One, or the Disk Enabled Version of the Series X.

Also, You need to Remember that Playground has NO CHOICE but to allow the base Xbox One to hold FH5 back, because Playground are now a Drone Hive, they are Wholly Owned by Microsoft Interactive, that means they HAVE to do what MS tells them like it or not! if MS says that the Game has to support the base Xbox One, then they have to Program the Game to Support base X Box One meaning the Game will be held Back, if MS says they have to make it a Battle Royale only Game set on the Moon and only Featuring Lego Cars, them they HAVE to make it a Battle Royale only Game set on the Moon and only Featuring Lego Cars, because they are Wholly owned By MS, which means MS can and most probably *will* Shut them down if they do not Comply!

Playground will have a Simple Choice, they either let the base Xbox One get in the way and hold FH5 back so it will work on the base Xbox One and Comply with the downright Stupid "Unified core Code on all Platforms" Policy that Microsoft has confirmed at CES, or they can Quit their Jobs. Those are the only Choices they have. I am sorry if that is Depressing, but that is the Cold Hard Reality of Modern AAA Console Game Development I am afraid.

However, as I said, although core Code does not Power Scale, so the Game itself will be held back by the base X Box One, *Graphics* Power-Scale incredibly well, Now the Forza Games are available on the PC, allowing the Developers to use Multiple Selectable Texture and Performance Settings dependant on Consoles, they can Power-Scale the Graphics to suit the Console, so FH5 will *Still* be a Showcase for Series X, by Showcasing its Top End PC Level Graphical Capabilities!

There is no doubt in My Mind that *Graphics* will be where FH5 is used to Showcase the Series X, for example, the Series X Version will probably run at the "Ultra" Texture Settings, with a Larger Field Of View (say, 90 Degrees instead of 60 Degrees), Increased Draw Distance, Higher Level of Detail (LOD) Bias so Ultra Textures are used on more Distant Objects and at longer Ranges, will Run at up to 8K (7680 X 4320) Resolution at 60 FPS (and will Probably run at 120 FPS in 1080P or 90 FPS in 4K), will be able to Run Dynamic Shadow Effects with "Contact Hardening" Edges at High Frame Rates, will Feature Anti-Aliasing (something that Forza does not currently Support outside of the PC Versions, its why, on Console, Power Lines often appear very Jagged and Broken Up, and why Grille Textures tend to Warp as the Camera Angle Changes, it is due to the Lack of Anti-Aliasing and only having Bilinear Filtering) possibly a Temporal based Solution combined with Anisotropic Filtering of around 16 Levels, will Feature Ray Tracing (of course, whether it is Hardware or Software based will be Dependant on the Capabilities of the AMD Navi Architecture (Most Likely a Vega 56 IMO) Graphical Processor, given that AMD are, IMO, a good 10 to 12 Years behind NVidia in terms of GPU Technology however, I personally think the Ray Tracing on Series X will be Software based) and will Feature AMD Freesync as the few 8K TVs currently on sale (which, as I stated, cost up to a completely *Ludicrous* £70,000!) feature AMD Freesync ready for use with Series X and PSV. Most of those Technologies will be *Exclusive* to Series X in terms of Console, and will, outside of Console, Probably need a top Flight PC costing 10 times the Price of a Series X to Run them Correctly, so I think FH5 will be used to Showcase the Graphical Capabilities of the Series X Via Graphical Power-Scaling.

I just hope Playground stops Outsourcing the Car Models to the completely Inept, at least In My Opinion, Glass Egg Studios who have made a complete Hash of most of the Models in FH4 and take the Car Modelling back in House again, as Poor Car Models are going to stand out like a Hammered Thumb at 8K Resolution and Ultra Settings!

Power Scaling enables Playground to do all of that Graphical Showcasing with FH5 on Series X, and then Scale the Graphics down on the Lesser Systems via Graphical Power-Scaling to match the Systems being Used.

So the base One X will be running the exact Same Game, but it will most likely be locked to 30FPS, running at Low Settings, with a 60 Degree FOV, only a Short Draw Distance and a Short LOD Bias before the Textures drop to Special "Sub Low" ones, will only have "Baked" Shadows and Lighting, wont have Anti Aliasing, will only have Bilinear Filtering, wont support Freesync or HDR, and will run at 720-900P Resolutions with maybe the odd area with low Graphical Demands running at 1080P.

Xbox One S will most likely have the Same settings as base Xbox One, but, as it is Slightly more Powerful as the APU is Overclocked, will Probably run at a Locked 1080P and will support HDR.

Xbox One X will Probably have a Choice of either a 1080P 60FPS "Performance" Mode at a Medium/High Settings Mix, with Baked Shadows and Lighting, a Medium Range LOD Bias, a 60 Degree FOV, No AA and only Bilinear Filtering, but with support for HDR and Freesync, or a 30FPS 4K "Quality" Mode at Purely High Settings, with a 90 Degree FOV, a Long Draw Distance with Long Range LOD BIAS, No AA, but Anisotropic Filtering, Dynamic Shadow Effects with Contact Hardening Edges, and again, Support for HDR and Freesync, with Series X containing all the Top End Graphical Showcasing I listed Earlier.

So, with Graphical Power-Scaling, FH5 will still be able to be a Graphical Showcase for Series X, even if it is held back elsewise with a Small Map, Brain Dead AI, and only 12 Cars Per Race due to the Limitations of the base Xbox One.

One thing that Really needs to Improve however for the Series X, along with Graphics, is the Sound! as most 8K TV's do not contain Speakers and thus Require a Separate High Quality Soundbar for Audio, Poor Sound Effects Stand out like a Hammered Thumb! especially on the latest 17 Speaker 7.1.4 Dolby Atmos Surround Sound Soundbars, such as the Harmon Kardon HW-Q90R that Samsung recommends for use with their Flagship £70,000! 95 Inch 8K QLED TV. As a Result FH5 cannot afford the Terrible Sound Effects that have Blighted FH4 as they are going to really Stand out on a 7.1.4 Atmos Surround Sound System!

However, that is an Easy Fix, IIRC the Head Sound Designer on NFFS has Quit, and if there is only *one* thing NFFS does well these Days, its the Engine Sounds, so if they hire Him, drop their In House Audio Middleware and change over to the REV Middleware, which has Proven its bones in Several Games with *incredible* sounding Cars such as NFFS Heat from the Copz, Project Cars 2, Mad Max, GRiD 2019, Dirt Rally 2.0, F1 2019, etc, and return to using Turn 10 to Record the Car Audio via Hiring Laguna Seca and getting Plenty of Track and Dynamometer time with the Real Versions of the Games Cars like they did up until FH3, they could soon sort out the Audio issues, especially if they then set up the Game to "Power-Scale" its Audio to suit different Audio Channel forms such as 1.0 TV Monaural, 2.0 Soundbar and Headphones, 2.1 and 5.1 Gaming PC Audio, or 7.1 and 7.1.4 Dolby THX and Atmos Soundbars. So there is an easy Fix there, but it is one Playground *needs* to do, as it would be a *Disaster* for them in terms of Sales if the Graphical Showcasing available on Series X was then Undermined by Terrible Audio!

On Marketing, I know that My Experience and Knowledge of Marketing does not count as I am not a Playground Employee, I was just using them to Educate You, and anyone else reading, on the Sheer Marketing Problems that Japan Poses, and why the Playground Games Marketing Team will probably say "NO" to Japan, in fact, I think they may have already done So, as Ralph Fulton was Quoted in a Recent Interview saying that Japan would be a "bad Idea" so there is a chance that Marketing may have Possibly already put the Kybosh on Japan for FH5.

Remember, Location is *Not* Chosen by Developers, it is Chosen by Marketing, because they want to ensure the Location is one they can Easily make attractive to Gamers so they can "Sell" the Game! a Location, like Japan, that would be very Difficult indeed to sell to Gamers who *do Not* like Drifting, Illegal Street Racing or Large City Scapes, and would also play havoc with the Car Company Licences, is one that Marketing will Probably Shoot down very Rapidly! Hence why I tried to Educate You, and anyone else Reading the Thread, as to why Marketing will very Probably put the Boot through Japan and, thinking about it Logically, most likely force the Development Team to go with Canada instead because Canada would be Childs Play to Market.

Edited by user Thursday, February 6, 2020 4:16:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
#268 Posted : Thursday, February 6, 2020 6:42:13 PM(UTC)
Deberia ser alemania por su gran aficion al mundo del motor y sus grandes marcas y paisajes sin olvidarnos sus autopistas deberian estar muchos kms y de nürburgring donde podrian poner las afueras y el circuito para hechar fotos y dar vueltas en el como concesionarios de vw audi bmw... asi para verlos y muchos detalles mas sin duda seria la mejor ubicacion para forza horizon 5 gran pais y cultura automovilistica tiene alemania
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#269 Posted : Friday, February 7, 2020 11:03:28 AM(UTC)
I am sorry Boriis7, but, could You repost that in English Please? I do not know how to read Spanish I am afraid. Going on some of the bits I can Read, I assume You are after Germany as the Location?
Rank: Racing Permit
#270 Posted : Friday, February 7, 2020 11:09:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Boriis7 Go to Quoted Post
Deberia ser alemania por su gran aficion al mundo del motor y sus grandes marcas y paisajes sin olvidarnos sus autopistas deberian estar muchos kms y de nürburgring donde podrian poner las afueras y el circuito para hechar fotos y dar vueltas en el como concesionarios de vw audi bmw... asi para verlos y muchos detalles mas sin duda seria la mejor ubicacion para forza horizon 5 gran pais y cultura automovilistica tiene alemania


According to Google :
It should be German for its great fondness for the world of motorsport and its great brands and landscapes without forgetting its highways should be many kms and of the n'rburgring where they could put the suburbs and the circuit to make photos and go around in the as dealers of vw audi bmw... so to see them and many more details would certainly be the best location for forza horizon 5 great country and automotive culture has Germany
Rank: Driver's License
#271 Posted : Friday, February 7, 2020 11:35:35 AM(UTC)
A little while ago we all thought tokyo was going to be 4, so maybe take us to Tokyo in Forza Horizon 5. A large group of friends pretty much stopped playing Horizon 4, we still hang out on 3, please go back to the Forza Horizon 3 gameplay, 4 nice, but just not as much fun as 3...
Rank: Driver's Permit
#272 Posted : Sunday, February 9, 2020 8:12:34 AM(UTC)
I'd say I want it to be in Belguim. You've got medieval villages, and could have multiple areas.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#273 Posted : Tuesday, February 11, 2020 11:34:27 AM(UTC)
I would really like a it to take place in a part of Saudi Arabia. maybe like Dubai with lots of long roads and sand dunes
Rank: D-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 4/18/2020 9:17:19 PM(UTC)
#274 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2020 11:46:00 AM(UTC)
also, FH5 will ahve to have a big, detailed map with a lot of verticality to show off the new hardware, given the recent xcloud *beta* launch and microsofts heavily going into cloud stuff i think FH5 will use most of XSX power and the stuff that xone wont handle will be streamed, the downside would be having to play always with internet but i guess tahts the price you pay for extended support, i dont think MS will let xone hold down their showpiece titles, they need to impress, even if they dont use cloud theyll definitely heavily downgrade the xone version on every possible little crack
Rank: D-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 4/18/2020 9:17:19 PM(UTC)
#275 Posted : Thursday, February 13, 2020 12:00:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: WillMcNoob Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: King Cobra Mi6 Go to Quoted Post
They are not Conspiracy Theories, they are Programming Facts, I have been involved in the....*Ahem* Third Party Content... Scene for Gaming for quite some Years, so I know a fair bit about Programming, other parts are Marketing Facts, Remember, I have a Degree in Business and Marketing (which I cannot use as I am classed as Unemployable... sometimes Life absolutely Sucks!) , so, I know a bit about how Markets think.

As a Result I am afraid to Say that I still Personally believe that Horizon 5 is going to be held back in Terms of the Size of its Map and the Skill and Number of the Drivatars in the Races, it wont just be Graphically Downgraded on the One/S Systems, I think the Game, on all Systems, will Suffer from a Small Map , Poor AI and Low Racer Numbers due to the RAM and APU Limitations on the Base Xbox One and the Same "base Game" core Code being used across all Platforms.

Yes, there is no Doubt there is going to be a Massive Downgrade on the Xbox One Versions Graphically, but again, when You have to build around a Really Low End System like the base Xbox One, You still have to consider that Systems Limitations when Designing the base Game core Code. If the base Game is so Demanding that the basic Systems cannot Run it Properly even when the Graphics have been dialled back so far that the Developers have to create Special "below even Low" Textures (like, say, Machine Games had to for the Xbox 360 and PS3 Versions of Wolfenstein: The New Order back in 2014) then You need to reduce the Demands of the base Game at the core Code Level, that can mean that certain Highly Demanding elements, such as a Modern City Scape (all the Vertices needed to create the Skeletal Meshes for the Skyscrapers, even if the Textures over them are as Limited and as Simple as Possible, are still going to absolutely Hammer the Jaguar 8 APU in a base Xbox One into Submission) will have to be Dialled back, across *all* Systems, until is it at a Point where the "Base" System can Cope! Meaning the City is either going to have to be Extremely Small (Surfers Paradise), or Removed Entirely, and that will affect all Platforms as Playground, to Save Time and Money, will use the same Map, heck the same base Game core Code in its Entirety! across all Versions of the Game) so I still think that Map Size and Location Choice will be Heavily Impacted by the Technical Limitations of the basic Xbox One across all Systems.

I really do think, like You, that the main Differences between the Series X and the Base One will be Purely Graphical, say with the Base One using Special "Below Low" Textures (or a Medium- High Mix on "One X") , Basic and Simple Lighting (but with Dynamic Shadow Casting and some Global Illumination on One X in 30FPS Quality Mode) a 30 FPS Cap and a 1080P Resolution, possibly with some Resolution Scaling that can drop the Game to 900P or even 720P in High APU Demand areas.

Series X meantime, IMO will only really be blessed with High/Ultra Textures, Hardware Ray Tracing (IF RT will even work on a Hardware Level on an AMD GPU, something I Personally have Severe Doubts about, don't get Me wrong, AMD are absolutely Mopping the Floor with Intel on the CPU front right now with Ryzen and that is great to See, but GPU wise they are lagging a good Decade or more behind NVidia IMO, and I Personally think, as a result, that "Hardware" RT is going to be beyond them, so Hardware RT could end up being Exclusive to the PC Version for PC's with NVidia RTX Cards and the RT on Series X will be a Software Accelerated Emulated Version that operates only on the most basic of Levels) support for up to 8K Resolution (but, with 8K TV's costing up to £70,000 (when even a Game Project Lead only gets £30,000 a Year Salary!) the Marketer in Me just doesn't see very many People using 8K on a Console, as People with *that* absolutely *Obscene* kind of Monetary Income either don't Play Games at all as they are too busy being Businessmen, or, if they do, they tend to go with a Custom Built PC, so most Console Users will stick with 1080P or 4K, at which Point they may as well stick with One-S / X!) and support for 60FPS at 4K/8K Resolutions with Dynamic Shadow Casting also working at 60FPS on Series X rather then being limited to 30FPS "Quality" Mode like on Xbox One X.

Everything else however In My Onion, such as the Small (95KM2 Tops) Map, the Brain Dead "Drivatar's" , only 12 Cars in Races (that is if the Game even *has* Races and isn't just "The Eliminator" Battle Royale mode and nothing else, as I just would not put it past an American Wall Street AAA Megacorporate like Microsoft to Pull that kind of Garbage!) and rather Simplistic Environment Topography that are Holding Horizon back due to the Limitations of the base Xbox One Hardware will Still be Present on all Systems in FH5 as everything outside the Graphics will most likely be built around the Lowest End System, the base Xbox One, because that is how Games are Programmed! , the basic Game itself is always built around the base entry Level System as CPU and RAM limitations do not Scale, so the base Game has to be built around the Lowest Common Denominator as the base Game core Code cannot Power-Scale, and only the Graphics, as they, unlike the base Game core Code, can be Scaled to the Abilities of Certain CPU/APU and (when Applicable) GPU Combinations, are used to Showcase the Power of Higher End Systems such as a Top Range PC or the Forthcoming Series X.

Again, You just cannot really pack more than 95KM2 into just 2GB of SD-RAM, it is a Programming Impossibility! So if they are using "Solid Data" in the RAM for the Map again like they have with the Previous 3 Horizon Games, and this one, then that 2GB Cap is going to stay in Place, and again, You are absolutely Pushing the Limits of that Cap to get 95KM2 in there! as I said, it may even need dot WAD (Where's All the Data) File Compression to some Degree to pack even 95KM2 into that Small an amount of RAM.

I mean, if they used Direct Data Streaming to Stream Map Data directly to the APU/GPU (Dependant on Console) in say, 60KM2 Chunks, and Bypassing the RAM entirely, then Yes, they could break the RAM Limits and have a Map Limited basically by little more than keeping it within a Sensible Install File Size, (With Data Streaming You could easily do, say, the whole of the Evil Unification at a 1:1 Scale even on a base Xbox One, but the Install File would Probably be bigger than what the actual Hard Drive has Space for, so around 30GB Max for the Map would be Sensible as part of the Typical 100GB Total "Day 1" Install File Size for a Modern AAA Game, which is around about 320-340 KM2 at Forza's typical Level of Environment Detail) but the Questions are 1, will the New Engine (and will it even have one? Will Playground use the New Engine from FM8? or will they stick with the Tried and Tested Forzatech Engine that they have used since FH1?) actually Support Data Streaming? and 2, are Playground actually Capable of Implementing it even if it does? I am afraid that with all the absolute Foul Ups they have made in FH4, (such as breaking the Camera Angles at Players Homes back when they added the Lego Toy rubbish and they *still* have not Fixed them!) I have to question their current level of Effort making a bit as they, at least IMO, seemingly become more and more Depressed, Burned out, and unable to be "bothered" with each Update and due to the Number of Staff Members who have upped and Quit recently!

I honestly think that Playground are going to Stick with running the Map in the RAM with "Solid Data" , limiting the Map to 95KM2 at the Most, and more Likely 75KM2 going on Previous Horizon Games (2 3 and 4 are all around about 75KM2 in terms of Map Size) due to the RAM limitations of the base Xbox One and the use of the same base Game core Code across all Systems.

Now, with Japan, My Marketing mind tells Me that going to Japan and not doing the Car Culture would be an absolute utter Disaster! the Majority of People who want Japan want it for One Reason, and One Reason Only, the Car Culture, so if they do Japan without doing the Car Culture, which they cannot do, because, as Mentioned, it would cause a mass Licencing Pull out from the European Manufacturers, those Users will Boycott as the Game will be "Japan in Name only" ! Meantime there are a lot of users who don't want the Game to go to Japan (or even Asia!) at all, Because they do not like Drifting or they Do not like big City-Scapes or they think the Location is too Generic, or they think there would be too much Traffic, and who will be very Angry indeed, to the point of, again, a Boycott, if the Game goes to Japan, a Location they want nothing to do with, when, without the Car Culture, it could have just as Easily gone to a Location that would have been more inline with their Whims, such as, Say, Germany, which a lot of users want for "Das Autobahn". (The Mention of which has gone and lead to Me listening to Kraftwerk wile I type the Rest of this. Great Music!, I would Love to hear them on Horizon Pulse one Day! 22 Minute Skill Song! ) Instead. Going to Japan, IMO, would be a Marketing Disaster.

Like You, I do think that Horizon 5, if the Location has already been Chosen, is most likely going to be Set in either Norway or Canada.

As I put in an Earlier Comment, I don't see Playground being willing to let all that Hard Work they put into a Fully Dynamic, Simulated, Aurora Borealis go to waste in a Single, Poorly Received, Expansion Pack, and both Norway and Canada have been heavily Requested, (along with Japan and California) on these Forums and in their YouTube and Mixer Channel comments. However I am not sure which of those Two Locations they will go with, as Canada's large Number of Modern Cities (Skyscrapers) , and Norway's extremely Rugged and Mountainous Terrain, will be absolutely Punishing on the Elderly AMD Jaguar 8 APU (which was never designed for Gaming in the First Place!) in the base Xbox One due to the sheer Number of Vertices it would have to calculate for both of them. Canada, so long as they stuck mostly to the Flat Forest and Farmland Areas and only did a Small, heavily cut down, Version of Montreal (similar to how FH3 handled Surfers Paradise) , might just about be within the Abilities of the base Xbox One.... but... that would be very Generic and rather too Similar to America... so I just do not know what they will Decide.

Again, that is if Microsoft doesn't Demand the Game is just "The Eliminator" and Nothing Else (and again, I would not be Surprised in the Slightest if they did exactly that, they are an American Mega Corporate that is controlled by Wall Street investors at the End of the Day, and are just "Activi$ion by any other Name", same as every other AAA American Wall Street Megacorp Game Publisher, be it Taken all Your Money 2, Evil Alliance, Bugthesda, whoever!) , at which point they may as well set it on the Moon! I don't know, maybe I am just a bit Burned out by AAA-Itus and am just being Negative about Everything. It wont be the First Time I have done that!

It will be interesting to see where they Go, but I really do think the Limitations of the base Xbox One, outside of the Massive Graphical Downgrade that System is going to need compared to the Series X Version, is still going to have a Massive Impact on their Choice of Location, and the Size of the Map, due to a Unified Core Code, and the Sheer number of Hardware Limitations Inherent on such an Underpowered System, as, again, core Base Game Code does not Scale to Processing Power, only Graphics do, so the Map Size and Location Topography will be Restricted by the Hardware Limitations of the base Xbox One across all Systems. That is simply just how Games are Developed these Days.


This is too depressing of a scenario, my gues is the one versions will be half streamed with the Xcloud theyve been pushing, or it will be like the xbox 360 version of FH2 where the map is smaller/less detailed and used FH1 base code, FH5 has to promote series X, i doubt they will let xone get in the way, theyll probably just put most of the game behind xcloud with a smaller download size, your expertise at marketing means nothing if you arent a PG employee


and theyll definitely use the new engine as it would be a waste not too plus given the first next gen games are soft reboots, theyll definitely use anew one or atleast a heavily modified forzatech
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