Forums

Hi,
started playing again this week after latest update and the steering now seems broken, with linearity at 50% i dont get an even application of steering, its slow for the first half of lock(225 degrees) then it all goes on with an added strange application of negative ffb pulling it to the left.
There is no strange ffb when turning right, using the outside view shows the 2nd half of the lock is almost redundant as its almost all aplied in a small turning of the wheel, its like i have linearity at 100% with 100% sensitivity and only 180 degrees of lock available, if i turn everything down and increase lock to 900 its impossible to turn the car quick enough or catch slides.
ive reinstalled drivers several times and reinstalled the base game once with no luck :(
FM7 works fine as do all my other sims, VERY frustrating !!
Tango

pc user and xbox one, xbox is ok but not as slick as pc ( ssd and 1080ti for the win! )

Edited by user Friday, January 18, 2019 1:04:57 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I've tried your setting off Twitter, and it's still massively broken. I spent the night spinning out then turning it off in frustration. The way I see it if you have it fixed, why aren't you sharing your settings?.

We aren't lying, we'd love to be playing this game and enjoying it truth is it poorly developed for wheels.

The grind sound that is still there says it all

Check my settings on page 12.
I can win races and drive for hours.

If you want my help, post your wheel settings up. It isn't like anyone else is in here trying to help you, so stop being difficult. The settings from Twitter are old, from release date old. Ffb has had updates since then, and my settings have changed accordingly.

How long have you had your wheel for?

The grinding sound is animation related, for the most part. If you use a clutch pedal and shifter, you can shift faster than the in cockpit animation can work. If you slow right down with said shifting, it doesn't happen at all. I use bonnet cam I horizon for this reason. This issue has been in every horizon game.

Until you post your settings up, I refuse to help you. I also refuse to justify myself and my experience in Forza horizon (And other racing titles) again.

Hi lalyrn.

I 'm also having problems with G920 on xbox in fh4. Have not much time at the moment (work to do), but following the discussion ...

Since my last post, you quoted someone saying that problems might be caused by display lag ... I'm sorry, but I don't think so: If that would be the cause, why would people then write "if we play with controller, there is no problem at all"? Display(!) lag and related problems should be the same independent of input device. Also I remember this kind of problem playing Need For Speed Shift 2 on Xbox360. There delay was up to 0.5 seconds ... But it was mostly a problem at higher speeds and with a bit of training you would get used to the delay. The problems I have with G920 in FH4 are not like that.

One more thing: I can understand, if you say you do not want to justify yourself and your experience ... but you should also understand that (at least most) people here do not want you to justify your experience - they do want you to SHARE your experience. So please ... share your settings. And if they are not up-to-date (if they need to be adapted due to latest updates of forza), then please USE your experience, update your settings and share them with us. If you have done that before, then it should be easier for you than for everybody else around here. And updating your already-optimized-in-earlier-fh-version-settings should be easier than searching for problems in dozens of other settings.

I've seen multiple settings posted in this thread. You answered one of those with some general advice "inside deadzone is to high. should be 0 ... but I don't know about the other settings, as fh has changed since then". Sorry: This might be a good advice, but it's no solution. If it does not work, what should one do? Ask again for the next setting? And would you want to answer this next question, too ... for all people having problems? Please understand - that's what people already do: Looking for hints, trying one more setting (that does not work), then look again for the next setting / opinion which might be fully contradicting. That's frustrating ... What is needed here is not just advice for one improvement / opinion, but an overall working solution. What you offer, that's no solution, that's keeping us busy and also wasting your time. If you are able to "devellop" / share good settings, then please do so. That's one single answer to this thread - not dozens of messages like would be otherwise. Or are your settings "top secret" - something as valueable to your driving success as a business secret?

Again ... I do not want to offend you - nobody does. Just asking you to share your knowledge.

Greetings,
Mitchel

Edited by user Saturday, January 19, 2019 6:23:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Currently dealing with a death in the family. So if people want help, they are going to have to post up their full force feedback settings. This is the last time I am going to say this, and then I am done with this sodding thread!

You probably should be done with the thread. People already know their settings are wrong and want you to simply post yours to try (since they must be miracle settings if they make your wheel work flawlessly). It isn't that complicated to just post the settings (if they even exist). It does no good for others to post settings that don't work. I sense you may be trolling for some reason since you are angry, argumentative and want people to guess at what to do. A mod should really lock this thread.

Edited by user Saturday, January 19, 2019 9:57:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I don't think it's a lot to do with the FFB settings, for my settings the games force feedback feels pretty damned good to be honest just driving around at 70%.
It's the actual handling and dynamics of the car, and input response speed - whatever they change from controller to a wheel, whether that's countersteer assists* , yaw limiters on controllers, etc, the cars just snap oversteer far too easily on direction changes or power application, especially off road with RWD cars where you have to go through obsticales.


*(this is some of it, FH4 needs countersteering to be applied very quickly, and in massive amounts which is awful if you have a 900 degree wheel vs a controller - it's massively exaggerated way beyond what you need to catch a car IRL when the rear end lets go, you don't get these issues in any other sim game. It's like the CoG is too far back on the cars, or the lateral weight transfer is massively exaggerated over the longitudinal + tyre saturation levels are too low for the speeds/grip levels they've bumped the cars up to).

Edited by user Saturday, January 19, 2019 10:36:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Bottom line is that this is an arcade game NOT an actual racing game. It's basically just light fun and designed to be used with a controller NOT a wheel. While it would be nice to use one of my wheel setups with H4 I never for a moment expected they would work like an actual racing game would with one. Even Forza 7 isn't good with a wheel because it isn't really a driving sim either. If you want to drive properly with a wheel there are plenty of actual racing/driving games out there to choose from. The Forza titles do not fall into that category. This is obvious when watching the competitions because everyone is sitting in racing chairs using Xbox controllers. That should be an indicator right there that the Forza games are NOT designed for wheel use. People should be aware of that when buying these titles. It would avoid a lot of arguing and griping. I love the Forza titles because they have great entertainment value, great track/car selection and great graphics. I love Rfactor, Raceroom, Asetto Corsa and Automobilista because they are actually racing games and are very realistic with wheel setups.

Its not enough to just post up settings, as everyone looks for different things when setting up force feedback. Its an individual preference. This is why I need people to cooperate, and post up their current force feedback settings, and detail exactly what they are feeling. If they do not do that, I cant help them. It is much better to explain where they are going wrong, where they are going right, and what to change to yield certain characteristics in the force feedback.

Im also sick to death of having to justify my abilities or intentions. You have been around here more than enough CW, to know how much time I have spent helping people with wheels and Forza. So dont start trying to make me look like a bad person for trying to get answers from people, so that I can help them properly.

As I said earlier, I am currently dealing with a death in my family. So excuse me for being a little on the raw side emotionally. But I dont have the time to waste, trying to help others who wont help themselves in the process.

For anyone who wants to see if I am a troll or not. Check out the force feedback threads for FM6 and FM7. Make up your own minds on my intentions. But if you want my help, stop wasting everyones times; and cooperate.

On top of this, if you dont give any actual information on what is wrong in your individual opinions. And dont post up your settings. T10 and PG have nothing to go on either. Any issues with any part of the game, requires actual details for anyone to investigate further. Just saying "ffb is bad on a G920" is not enough.

I feel this too. It could be the tire physics, or the digressive dampers working way too well to optimize grip (I've had that problem in another sim before), enough that the car is impossibly capable of changing course faster than the wheel can react. I've managed to drift in FM7 even at 1080 degrees but it doesn't like it at all. It feels the same in FH4; the car constantly is trying to rotate one way or the other, rather than accept a stable rotation and just chill for a moment. Sustained opposite lock, in real life, is very stable.




It has to do with the tires, or, the ways Forza has dealt with the flaws in it's tires, like "dampening the car's yaw when normal steering is engaged"? Doesn't sound shady at all... It does work OK on controller. When I use my wheel it's 1080 degrees or nothing. LFS, Assetto Corsa, neither are perfect but I manage. Forza needs serious changes to be fun, let alone realistic particularly during slides. Slot cars are one thing. Accurately simulating the full dynamic range of rubber on road from straight-line braking to AWD donuts is another.


I'd like to point out I too agree the FFB is perfectly ok in a number of configurations. The physics are what's volatile, and the default tunes that, if people are anything like I was 10 years ago when I didn't even know how to tune springs, 90% of them never touch.

Edited by user Monday, January 28, 2019 5:20:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hi Lalyrn,

Just wanted to say I'm sorry for your loss and prayers for you and family. Thank you for monitoring this thread and offering help for so many of us wheel people.

In which case it should be set to be as easy with the wheel as the controller and leave it at that. The game should not be twice as difficult the minute you plug a wheel in. I can live with dumbed down FFB effects - I don't care if it's completely realistic, we're driving supercars offroad at 100mph that wouldn't even be able to get over a kerb, the buggies feel terrible because the damper model is [Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D], that's not a concern, because it's the same for everyone.
What I can't live with is my nephew (who struggles to beat the AI on easy) on a controller coming past me in a rwd car on gravel with the entire car sideways, all 4 wheels spinning and just holding the stick one way with the throttle pinned, and yet I'm trying to drive a 4wd converted one around like it's on eggshells sawing away at the wheel every time I get a slight tap or bump just to hold the damned thing in a straight line because the car feels like I'm driving on grease with a trailer attached. It's not fun, or enjoyable.

It's just downright frustrating. Which is why I've barely touched the game for weeks - I bought a £200 wheel and the ~£70-80 ultimate edition of the game and it's so irritating even that waste can't convince me to play it atm.
Along with the complete lack of info from Customer Support and the Devs ensure I'll never buy another Forza game on release for a long, long time.

Edited by user Monday, January 21, 2019 10:53:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Play it with a controller if you have to. It took them 13 years for Forza to have decent FFB. In a few years, maybe they will iron out the physics enough for it to play well on wheels.

Edited by user Saturday, January 19, 2019 3:25:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Exactly. Finally a realistic and rational comment. Just play it with a controller. It will never have a good feel with a wheel because it wasn't meant to. All you people bickering like children over wheel setups need to just accept it and have fun with the game as it's meant to be played. If you spend years agonizing over using a device that simply doesn't work properly (and was never meant to), you're missing the fun of a great arcade racer. Stop trying to turn it into something it isn't and just enjoy it for what it is.

Edit: preface, I thought this thread was about FM7. I like Playground Games. They've done much better with FH4 than T10 did with FM7.

Someone wanted it to be a sim. I did. I remember reading an article in Popular Science when the first Forza Motorsport came to Xbox. They talked about the aero, and how if you lose your spoiler the downforce is now gone, too. They did a comparison test with an Evo and some other cars on a real track, vs Forza with a sim rig, of the lap times. Maybe it was all marketing. It's about to that point now.

A sim can be fun. I think, on gamepads, the game should be handling the finer aspects of the driving for you, especially during opposite lock. CarX has the right idea; even though their physics aren't very accurate it works well. No tricks, just a set of systems working together, brought to a point by "steer assist" and handed to the player. It's pure. Unlike Forza's steering that seems to put the grit of things an extra step away from the player by "dampening the yaw inertia". Where's the excitement? The only controls that aren't smoothed are gas and brake. Might as well add a system to them that makes 80% trigger perfectly threshold brake, or consistently produce x amount of deceleration force, which is what you'd be paying attention to driving a real car. I'd appreciate that, honestly, even if it took 5% of my credit winnings away. I feel like the devs clearly don't race, they aren't fearless, they're average people who won't ask for or accept help from those who do/are. It's a real shame there are Formula Drift replica cars yet I don't see any of them acting like their real-world counterparts aside from horsepower and sticker location.

Edited by user Sunday, January 20, 2019 10:38:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I still think it would be useful to have a baseline setting that we can all work From, maybe one for pc and one for Xbox, as a starting point and then people can say try this setting to help out.
I literally cannot drift a corner with my wheel, I tried the settings listed on page 12 and the cars felt more skittish than the settings I had before.

If your cars are oversteering constantly with a wheel try this:
http://fm7calc.nedge2k.com/
Found at
https://forums.forzamoto...WEB-APP---Available.aspx

You may need to lower or raise your rear springrate by 5-20 for perfect balance.

Your posts are filled with so much misinformation, its not even remotely funny. Yes, its true. Force feedback and wheel support in previous forza titles left a lot to be desired. It was a lack lustre experience all the way. FM4 was ok FFB wise, FM5 saw no improvements. FM6 saw the addition of a really strong damping effect, as well as pneumatic force drop off as soon as traction was lost on the front wheels. With only 'Force Feedback Scale' as the adjustable option, it made the experience on a wheel usable, but awful. Especially when it came to drifting.

FM7 made some dramatic changes, with plenty of different options to adjust. These options, if set appropriately, gave proper aligning forces for the first time. Not to mention the ability to FINALLY turn off that god awful damping effect, and lower the pneumatic force effects. The force feedback felt a lot nicer, but only in regards to aligning forces and weight. Road feel was nonexistent, so left the wheel feeling lifeless. Still, the experience was far superior to FM6 (and every Forza title before it). But they are still missing out automatic wheel rotation soft locking, even with the most recent FFB update FM7 received just before Christmas.

Now we have FH4, and from day one; the FFB has been very good. Not to mention finally having road feel in there. Aligning Forces also seem stronger than the release version FFB of FM7 as well. Its a far better experience overall.

But this is where the issues enter. The names for the FFB adjustment sliders are confusing. This was fixed in FM7 with the recent FFB update, and the new naming convention makes a lot of sense. FH4 still uses the older naming scheme, and it doesn't fit with ANY other racing game. Not to mention a lot of people call for turning off Centre Spring, which I have found in FM7 and FH4 to be a massive mistake.

If you want you wheel to have good aligning forces, which you will need to countersteer effectively. Then you need to have settings that allow that to happen. This, I have to assume, is where people are going wrong. Along with having copious amounts of damping set, with barely any centre spring. But I cant be certain, as very few people will do as I requested; and post up their current settings. But it fits with not being able to anticipate or control the cars once traction is lost.

If you are playing on the Xbox one with either a Logitech or Thrustmaster wheel, then you will need to set 'Force Feedback Scale' to personal taste. I have my G920 set to 75% when I use it along side the Xbox one version of FH4. If you are playing on the PC with a Thrustmaster device, or use a fanatec wheel on either the Xbox or the PC. I highly suggest setting the in game 'Force Feedback Scale' to 100%, and adjusting the 'master gain' on your wheel hardware itself. Such as in the Thrustmaster driver software, or on the fanatec wheel itself. My T300 is set to 60% Master Gain in the driver software, as an example. But in game I have it set to 100%.

Centre spring, as mentioned above. A lot of people turn this off. DONT. This is a dynamic force, which will aid in self aligning while the car is in motion. This is a necessary effect. I have this set on 100 currently, for my T300 and my G920.

Wheel Damper, I also see quite a few people having quite a lot of damping on. This is actually bad, as it adds artificial weight; and saturates the wheel. This reduces the effectiveness of all the other force feedback effects, as well as severely hampering self aligning forces. On a Logitech based wheel, you want this turned to 0%. I also use 0% on my T300. The more powerful wheel you have, the more chance there is you will need some wheel damping; but we are talk small amounts only. Even in that circumstance.

If you want to have good mechanical trail feel, then you need FFB understeer set high. I run this at 100 on both my T300RS, and my G920 wheel. This effect is essential for aligning forces!!!!

Minimum Force is a very confusing option. But it pertains to the pneumatic trail effects. Essentially, tires. If you have this set high, you will get a significant drop off in forces. From what I have experienced in game, this also increases/decreases the weight of the wheel while cornering. I have this set at 20% for my T300, and 30% for my G920.

My wheel rotation, I change here an there. It all depends on what I am driving. I tend to change this more in FM7 than I do in FH4. For the most part, I run full 1080° on my T300RS in FH4. Even while drifting, or doing rally races. 900° for my G920.

FH4 wheel cam footage I just recorded for the sake of this thread. I used a fully stock Shelby GT350, and a drift tuned Mustang. Settings as described above, and wheel rotation at 1080°. You can see in the footage while I am drifting, that the wheels self aligning forces are very good, and very fast - https://youtu.be/RtEpF0y5xUA

People still need to also check their TV's, and make sure any 'Gaming Modes' are turned on. Input lag is a very real issue when it comes to playing games on an LCD/LED/OLED tv set. The input lag that some TV's produce, can make it seem like the wheel isnt responding to what is happening on the screen. It makes it impossible to read the force feedback. The information you receive on the wheel is fine, but what you see on the TV itself is delayed. This causes in massive disconnect, and destroys any hope of a nice experience. Racing games, and FPS games, which are very fast paced; and rely on fast reaction times. Are the main places input lag will be noticed.

Something else to keep in mind. The FFB will feel different in both FM7 and FH4, depending on what car you are driving. Or how that car is set in its tuning. It is not necessarily a good idea to go back into the FFB settings and change everything, as sometimes the different feel between cars/tunes; is correct. Just take out a front engine, rear wheel drive car. Then take out a mid engine rear wheel drive car right after it. Notice the lighter steering feels on the latter engine/drive layout. This is showing the lack of engine weight over the front wheel axle, which is an expected result of the engine layout change.

Edited by user Sunday, January 20, 2019 7:52:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I played FM7 almost all day today. Just popped open FH4 after FM crashed for about the 15th time. The wheel support is good, almost too good. It's very communicative but so dynamic that one second it can barely be pulling and the next it almost yanks itself out of my hand. On dirt it rattles my wheel/desk pretty badly (T500RS). Even 50 wheel damper isn't enough to stop it. Maybe I could try 100. That's not the worst of it.

FH4's map is so full of elevation changes, large bumps, jumps, etc, if you take a jump and land a little bit sideways there's a good chance you won't be able to track the weight by the time you land. In the same vein as Normal steering's "yaw dampening", if there was an element of the FFB that would align the front wheels after leaving the ground, in such a way when you land you could straighten back out and continue, yes it would be a superhuman feature but without it there's almost no chance of pulling the stunts you can with a controller. In fact, a predictive FFB effect designed to control the control the weight/yaw of the car with the steering wheels only, no injected physical effect, without any element of mechanical trail (or, only drawing from that when the car is on the ground) might be the best solution to FFB wheels in Horizon. At the very least, some compression of the current aligning torque forces might help deal with the constant waves in the roads. And something to stop the rattle.

First, read my last post. If you have a T500rs, then my T300 settings should work for you. Also, make sure to turn 'vibration' off. That is most likely what is causing the rattling. Wheel damper won't help, and will just hamper your wheel. Again, read my post.

Secondly, about the jumps............. What!!!!!

Did you even click on my video? The one I linked in my last post. I take the same two danger sign, twice, in that video. Each times I stick the landing with zero issues, and immediately make a right corner after one to the jumps. It's not exactly difficult, so long as you hit the jump straight.

But it's not, centre spring isn't dynamic at all, it tells you this in the Forza settings - that's why it doesn't scale with the force feedback settings, and I've tried it set all over and it just adds exactly what it says, a force to centre the wheel no matter what - like the old bungee-cord non-FFB wheels use to do.
Not to mention on a G920 at least it seems to be bugged and doesn't make a whole lot of difference from 0 to 100 anyway.

I’ve been lurking on this board since October 7th, when I picked up the game and (like so many others) got frustrated with the see-saw motion of the cars. My original pick after the tutorial section was the Audi, and I found it horrible to drive. I followed different peoples advice and could never find the sweet spot.

Finally, after following Ialyrn’s advice above, I’m having FUN driving this game and winning races, and it doesn’t even feel cheap when you lose control anymore (tossing a TVR through a bush at 90mph is SUPPOSED to end in disaster).

The least you can do is reset everything to default, fix the brake deadzone (thanks Logitech) and try the settings in the post above. For me, this has been a night and day change to the game. Thanks Ialyrn!!

I get where you're coming from but on a gamepad I can do it all day. If Horizon gameplay is about leaving the ground at least once a minute on average, it should be possible on a wheel or they should be more forthcoming about the incomplete wheel support. Plain and simple.

A very small amount of disconnect between user wheel inputs and game steering inputs might be necessary to stabilize the car in extreme situations such as landing from jumps. The rest, i.e. f you take a jump in a cross country race and rotate in mid-air, setting up to land at 10-degrees deflection from your trajectory, the FFB should help align the players wheel (and the car's wheels) in a way that makes landing into re-alignment relatively painless. Even jumps in the road, or jumping the roundabout coming up the highway, can upset the car for wheel users.

Taking a closer look at the default tunes is also a great idea. The FFB and expanding wheel user-base is not creating problems, simply highlighting problems that have always been with Forza.

The map design in Horizon 4 does a great job of adding excitement back into the gameplay that the lazy pad steering would cause in pure track racing. Trying to navigate this world with a wheel, the true drama of it is clear.

Edited by user Monday, January 21, 2019 6:07:53 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I'm not providing "information", I'm just stating what these games are supposed to be. They aren't sims and will never handle great with a wheel. You may make them work satisfactory,
but they'll never have a real driving feel. I have to assume you don't play any real sims or you'd totally agree with me about how a wheel feels and handles with Forza titles. Like I said before, all you have to do is look at the fact nobody in the actual Forza 7 comps even uses a wheel and that's really all the proof needed.