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Rank: Racing Permit
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#76 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:28:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PURE NFS CRYS Go to Quoted Post
I like to race S2. What's left to me on Rivals mode? Goliath and Derwent Lake (raining)? .


I absolutely love D class. I am pretty sure I have ZERO options on rivals

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#77 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:37:33 AM(UTC)
HUGELY disappointed that class based rivals with leaderboards is missing (along with no blueprint championships)... this severely limits the replay ability and longevity of this game compared to Horizon 3!

Please implement this feature that so many players are begging to have?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#78 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 8:52:45 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PURE NFS CRYS Go to Quoted Post
What I don't understand is why having a not limited Rivals Mode would be worse than having a restricted one as you seem to like.

There just comes a point when there's too many options to have effective competition, FM7 has become the equivalent of the Olympics not just having running events for 100m, 200m, 400m etc, but having 101m, 102m, 103m etc. Sure, someone might feel that they are specifically a 172m running specialist, running anti-clockwise, at night, but most people would just think it was a joke.

Having said that, it clearly hasn't worked in FH4 in terms of concentrating numbers of drivers into the available rivals events, as the numbers of people who have driven each event is very small for the events I've looked at. I'm #11 on the world leaderboard for one, out of a whopping 1687 players. Maybe there is a different composition of the available events that would be more appealing to people, without crazily inflating the total number of events.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#79 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 4:50:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PURE NFS CRYS Go to Quoted Post
What I don't understand is why having a not limited Rivals Mode would be worse than having a restricted one as you seem to like.

There just comes a point when there's too many options to have effective competition, FM7 has become the equivalent of the Olympics not just having running events for 100m, 200m, 400m etc, but having 101m, 102m, 103m etc. Sure, someone might feel that they are specifically a 172m running specialist, running anti-clockwise, at night, but most people would just think it was a joke.

Having said that, it clearly hasn't worked in FH4 in terms of concentrating numbers of drivers into the available rivals events, as the numbers of people who have driven each event is very small for the events I've looked at. I'm #11 on the world leaderboard for one, out of a whopping 1687 players. Maybe there is a different composition of the available events that would be more appealing to people, without crazily inflating the total number of events.


What is wrong with inflating the number of events?

That is the problem and why the current rivals system is hopeless. People prefer driving different classes on every track. Right now there is nothing on offer and I personally will run out of things to do since I hate all aspects of Multiplayer. However, I would never try to suggest that Multiplayer should be diluted.

I know that many people don't appreciate what full class based rivals has to offer, but I can assure you that many do. It was our intention to restart a weekly Hot Lap Competition in Horizon 4 at the end of October but without class based rivals there just aren't enough tracks with leaderboards to make it work. We are hugely disappointed!

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#80 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 5:18:09 PM(UTC)
Really hope they bring them back as HLR Moss' weekly hotlap competition was loads of fun in H3 even though I had no chance since that crew generally were the top ten guys. But it was fun and really pushed me to be at least respectable. Those kinds of player created content can really keep the game fresh and interesting. Without this kind of open ended content the game withers.
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#81 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 6:40:43 PM(UTC)
Yeah this is an absurd feature to be missing on launch day. When was the last time you saw a racing game where you couldn't do time trails?
Rank: Driver's License
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#82 Posted : Tuesday, October 16, 2018 6:57:40 PM(UTC)
With the old system though in our club we could say "OK guys and girls this week it's C class 172 yards backwards and at night- go for it"

You'd see that pretty often- the competitive clubs all with multiple times at the top of a certain leaderboard. That's because they'd been rivalling each other backwards and forwards for a week, sending each other letters.

It was a brilliant system. Endless possibilities.





Rank: Driver's Permit
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#83 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:39:30 AM(UTC)
I completely understand your pain. Classic class based Rivals mode has to return!!

Originally Posted by: YoungishOcean Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PURE NFS CRYS Go to Quoted Post
I like to race S2. What's left to me on Rivals mode? Goliath and Derwent Lake (raining)? .


I absolutely love D class. I am pretty sure I have ZERO options on rivals



Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#84 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 7:53:25 AM(UTC)
Don't forget FM7 had its leaderboards reseted after almost an year after release. FM7 had a even more serious problem because they turned Rivals mode into a big Monthly Rivals. It clearly didn't work and lots of players have abandoned it or make it just a casual racing game. They fixed this design decision only nearby FH4 release but the damage was made. So I don't think your comparison is kind of fair...

FH4 otherwise has all the tracks available and I don't see how could be bad having all classes available with tuning enabled. Do you feel lost choosing your option? Want that Turn 10/ Playground chooses it for you? Monthly Rivals is your best bet. There you can drive your beautiful stock car defined by developers on a track also chosen by them. Now it's kind of nonsense thinking that this should be the only option of game for ALL players. Totally different situation.


Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PURE NFS CRYS Go to Quoted Post
What I don't understand is why having a not limited Rivals Mode would be worse than having a restricted one as you seem to like.

There just comes a point when there's too many options to have effective competition, FM7 has become the equivalent of the Olympics not just having running events for 100m, 200m, 400m etc, but having 101m, 102m, 103m etc. Sure, someone might feel that they are specifically a 172m running specialist, running anti-clockwise, at night, but most people would just think it was a joke.

Having said that, it clearly hasn't worked in FH4 in terms of concentrating numbers of drivers into the available rivals events, as the numbers of people who have driven each event is very small for the events I've looked at. I'm #11 on the world leaderboard for one, out of a whopping 1687 players. Maybe there is a different composition of the available events that would be more appealing to people, without crazily inflating the total number of events.


Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#85 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 12:59:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: crystieallan Go to Quoted Post
Don't forget FM7 had its leaderboards reseted after almost an year after release. FM7 had a even more serious problem because they turned Rivals mode into a big Monthly Rivals. It clearly didn't work and lots of players have abandoned it or make it just a casual racing game. They fixed this design decision only nearby FH4 release but the damage was made. So I don't think your comparison is kind of fair...

FH4 otherwise has all the tracks available and I don't see how could be bad having all classes available with tuning enabled. Do you feel lost choosing your option? Want that Turn 10/ Playground chooses it for you? Monthly Rivals is your best bet. There you can drive your beautiful stock car defined by developers on a track also chosen by them. Now it's kind of nonsense thinking that this should be the only option of game for ALL players. Totally different situation.

A big drawback of monthly rivals is it has no permanence, the leaderboard just disappears at the end of the month.

It's not that I'd feel lost choosing my option, more that everyone will choose different options which makes for a poor competition. However, I'm coming round to it being okay to have every class for every track provided only performances done in Rivals mode count for leaderboards. I thought FM6's leaderboards were very poor quality, with lots of performances on them that clearly weren't attempts at optimising performance for that class, they were just whatever people had happened to do in career mode.

There would also be a problem with seasons and weather conditions, though. Do we really want a leaderboard for Track A, in season B, at time of day C, in conditions D, class E, for every possible combination of A / B / C / D / E?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#86 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 1:46:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

There would also be a problem with seasons and weather conditions, though. Do we really want a leaderboard for Track A, in season B, at time of day C, in conditions D, class E, for every possible combination of A / B / C / D / E?


Now you are being silly. No we don’t.

We only need one time of day with fixed weather (preferably clear), but class based leaderboards for each track in each season would be ideal.

While they are at it they should remove the random traffic from the Street Rivals to ensure everyone is running with the same conditions.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#87 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:12:34 PM(UTC)
Rivals should have every route available in clear, dry weather for any class to serve as a baseline. From their we can have developer specials, weekly and monthly rivals with special conditions. I get there are zillions of possibilities but the cornerstone of rivals is taking your car, building it your way, and seeing how high you can climb under optimum conditions, that should have never been messed with. As of now I have a garage full of my favorite cars that I can't use for my favorite game mode.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:14:04 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#88 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 2:18:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

There would also be a problem with seasons and weather conditions, though. Do we really want a leaderboard for Track A, in season B, at time of day C, in conditions D, class E, for every possible combination of A / B / C / D / E?


Now you are being silly. No we don’t.

We only need one time of day with fixed weather (preferably clear), but class based leaderboards for each track in each season would be ideal.

While they are at it they should remove the random traffic from the Street Rivals to ensure everyone is running with the same conditions.


I agree 100% with Moss. I’ve gotten into those HLCs since FM6 and that is absolutely the best way to keep this game going. It’s made the 3 previous games much more replayable.

Sadly, it seems to me that Turn 10 with FM7 and Playground with FH4 have decided that releasing half a game is acceptable. I don’t understand the thought process at all. Class based rivals is and always has been a huge part of the Forza games. It’s a racing game! The process of building something in a certain class, for a certain track is what many folks enjoy.

Hopefully this gets fixed soon!
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Rank: Driver's License
#89 Posted : Wednesday, October 17, 2018 3:18:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post

There would also be a problem with seasons and weather conditions, though. Do we really want a leaderboard for Track A, in season B, at time of day C, in conditions D, class E, for every possible combination of A / B / C / D / E?


it's 2018 for crying out loud, storage is $0.01/GB, just upload all clean laps everyone does in every season/condition and let people blueprint their own rival race however they like, pulling rivals from the list filtering by the conditions of the blueprint
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#90 Posted : Thursday, October 18, 2018 3:16:39 AM(UTC)
To go slightly against the grain I do really like the current FH4 based rivals as in some cases the playing field is completely fair - forcing players to use the exact same car on a particular track (Alfa 4C for example). This gives a 'true' indication of the fastest driver overall, with the tools that they have been given to utilize. Providing class-based events on some tracks, and 'car type' events on other events (e.g. muscle cars, b class) gives further flexibility and allows players to tinker with a few options before deciding which to run with, but still provides a limitation on cars to make things as 'fair as possible'.

However.

Imagine if FH3 was the same. I want to practice my S1 asphault tunes on Rainforest Circuit. Nope, not happening, I have to use a B class hot hatchback ONLY. As much as the current mode is fair, there is no flexibility to perform time attack challenges with any car, and any class you desire. Sure, there is some fun in limiting the car selection for each track, but some of us want to test our new C class tunes out on this track, or our new S2 on that track, but we can't.
Not only this - in my experience - rivals boards gives a clear indication of what cars / tunes / setups prove 'fastest' overall and do assist in identifying the better cars to be competitive in rivals, and also in online adventure too. S1 asphault? Use that OP Impreza. A class cross country? Get yourself a Jeep Willys. A class street race? BMW M1.
Byron Bay was more technical, Yarra Valley was more speed-based. I created cars with this in mind - to test these out personally and tinker with them, rivals would be the answer.

The current mode is fine, but only as an option, in which it should be. It's basically the same as the previous monthly rivals events. Make this an option, bring back the flexibility of old and allow us to go out and race whatever we want, in whatever class, on whatever track!
GT: SavageFingers1
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#91 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 12:53:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ChickenWorm4902 Go to Quoted Post
Rivals should have every route available in clear, dry weather for any class to serve as a baseline. From their we can have developer specials, weekly and monthly rivals with special conditions. I get there are zillions of possibilities but the cornerstone of rivals is taking your car, building it your way, and seeing how high you can climb under optimum conditions, that should have never been messed with. As of now I have a garage full of my favorite cars that I can't use for my favorite game mode.


Amen brother!
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Rank: Racing Permit
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#92 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 1:49:31 AM(UTC)
Personally I'd put in 4 leaderboards per class on each track (plus one bonus event as set by PG that we already have), one for each season with weather typical for that season and sufficiently different from each other to be meaningful, example idea:

- Spring - Set to dawn with misty conditions, cold but dry road with damp patches
- Summer - Midday and sunny, totally dry i.e. perfect conditions
- Autumn - Late Afternoon, heavy rain and wet roads
- Winter - Mid Morning, light snow with slippery conditions

I would also however put in a mode that doesn't link to online time trials but simply saves your best times locally as there needs to be a way to test cars on closed circuit routes without the AI or other players. This would be particularly useful for the route creator as an online rivals leaderboard per custom route and class, is probably a bit much.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#93 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 2:19:42 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SavageFingers1 Go to Quoted Post
Not only this - in my experience - rivals boards gives a clear indication of what cars / tunes / setups prove 'fastest' overall and do assist in identifying the better cars to be competitive in rivals, and also in online adventure too. S1 asphault? Use that OP Impreza. A class cross country? Get yourself a Jeep Willys. A class street race? BMW M1.
Byron Bay was more technical, Yarra Valley was more speed-based. I created cars with this in mind - to test these out personally and tinker with them, rivals would be the answer.

I think certainly anything that can come up in online racing should have a rivals leaderboard for that reason. Do they publish a list of everything that can be thrown at you online, or do you have to just guess at what cars you need to prepare in advance?
Rank: Racing Permit
#94 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 4:21:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SavageFingers1 Go to Quoted Post
The current mode is fine, but only as an option, in which it should be. It's basically the same as the previous monthly rivals events. Make this an option, bring back the flexibility of old and allow us to go out and race whatever we want, in whatever class, on whatever track!

Yep. I really like that there are these featured rivals, to guide us and to level the playing field. It's another mode that answers the problem I sometimes find myself having: "I can't think of what to do - let's see what's in Rivals." But since more choice is always better, there's really no reason for open class-based rivals not to also be in the game.

I imagine the reason they ditched the mode is because seasons keep changing the track conditions. The easiest way to implement this would probably be to just set every track to summer, clear weather, since that provides the conditions that most racing-minded people care about anyways, but that might go against the game's philosophy of everything revolving around seasons, so separate leaderboards for every season would then be the other natural option.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#95 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 5:42:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: rultsch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SavageFingers1 Go to Quoted Post
The current mode is fine, but only as an option, in which it should be. It's basically the same as the previous monthly rivals events. Make this an option, bring back the flexibility of old and allow us to go out and race whatever we want, in whatever class, on whatever track!

Yep. I really like that there are these featured rivals, to guide us and to level the playing field. It's another mode that answers the problem I sometimes find myself having: "I can't think of what to do - let's see what's in Rivals." But since more choice is always better, there's really no reason for open class-based rivals not to also be in the game.

I imagine the reason they ditched the mode is because seasons keep changing the track conditions. The easiest way to implement this would probably be to just set every track to summer, clear weather, since that provides the conditions that most racing-minded people care about anyways, but that might go against the game's philosophy of everything revolving around seasons, so separate leaderboards for every season would then be the other natural option.


Your latter option of track leaderboards for every season would be the best. Cross country obstacles change from season to season, the best example of which are the bales of hay in the fields of autumn, correctly missing during Spring.
Rank: Racing Permit
#96 Posted : Friday, October 19, 2018 9:05:05 PM(UTC)
I have to admit, I am hoping, in my heart of hearts, that when the full route blueprinting system comes out, Rivals will be fully blueprintable as well, which would cure many of the problems we've identified. At the same time, I am not an optimist by nature -- but, still. This seems, to me, the most elegant solution.
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#97 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2018 12:05:03 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rultsch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SavageFingers1 Go to Quoted Post
The current mode is fine, but only as an option, in which it should be. It's basically the same as the previous monthly rivals events. Make this an option, bring back the flexibility of old and allow us to go out and race whatever we want, in whatever class, on whatever track!

Yep. I really like that there are these featured rivals, to guide us and to level the playing field. It's another mode that answers the problem I sometimes find myself having: "I can't think of what to do - let's see what's in Rivals." But since more choice is always better, there's really no reason for open class-based rivals not to also be in the game.

I imagine the reason they ditched the mode is because seasons keep changing the track conditions. The easiest way to implement this would probably be to just set every track to summer, clear weather, since that provides the conditions that most racing-minded people care about anyways, but that might go against the game's philosophy of everything revolving around seasons, so separate leaderboards for every season would then be the other natural option.


Your latter option of track leaderboards for every season would be the best. Cross country obstacles change from season to season, the best example of which are the bales of hay in the fields of autumn, correctly missing during Spring.


Full leaderboards for each season is a must.
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#98 Posted : Saturday, October 20, 2018 3:42:15 AM(UTC)
I feel seasonal leaderboards is overkill. All I want is a clean clear track for each race that I can do in each class. Spring summer and autumn aren't all that different other than possible rain/mud and different obstacles in CC. Winter in this game sucks in comparison the Blizzard Mountain. Winter isn't wintery enough to really make much of a difference where as BM felt snowy and icy and going sans snow tires was unheard of. Even then you still slid a bit with snow tires while here snow tires have uber grip and most races don't lose much without them.

Seasonal types of rivals should be reserved for the monthly types but for normal rivals just a clean clear track like in the past.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#99 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 3:53:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post

Your latter option of track leaderboards for every season would be the best. Cross country obstacles change from season to season, the best example of which are the bales of hay in the fields of autumn, correctly missing during Spring.


I do think seasonal rivals would be overkill, and agree with just setting it to 'standard' summer setting.
Think about it, say there are 50 tracks, and you can drive these in 5 different classes. That's 250 event types, now multiply that by 4 seasons...1000 events! xD
Plus, why put yourself through the pain and suffering of doing an asphalt event in Winter..when you can do it in Summer? The leaderboards would be dead! Having the option there would be fine but I can imagine most events being played on Summer then Spring/Autumn.

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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#100 Posted : Monday, October 22, 2018 5:03:41 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SavageFingers1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HLR Moss Go to Quoted Post

Your latter option of track leaderboards for every season would be the best. Cross country obstacles change from season to season, the best example of which are the bales of hay in the fields of autumn, correctly missing during Spring.


I do think seasonal rivals would be overkill, and agree with just setting it to 'standard' summer setting.
Think about it, say there are 50 tracks, and you can drive these in 5 different classes. That's 250 event types, now multiply that by 4 seasons...1000 events! xD
Plus, why put yourself through the pain and suffering of doing an asphalt event in Winter..when you can do it in Summer? The leaderboards would be dead! Having the option there would be fine but I can imagine most events being played on Summer then Spring/Autumn.



Better than nothing, but remember that the game has a 2 year lifespan. 1000 tracks is not over the top. FM4 had well over 1100 tracks. Very few people run every class.

If we only had Summer rivals we would not be able to run in mud or ice and snow. The water levels would be low and in some cases dry. Give us a full set please.
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