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#126 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 11:05:40 AM(UTC)
I'll try Baby Cow's approach next time I get a chance.

I don't race online because I can't stand the morons. When I play, I want to race, not constantly dodge and watching over my shoulder for rammers and bombers. It's a sad day when you prefer racing with the "unbeatable" AI to racing with other players online, but that's where I am. I let my "gold" membership lapse months ago, so can't try the new crash model online. But based on what I read, it sounds like the same trash needs taking out, it's just the stench that changed, so not interested.

I mention that because, as such, I don't play class based (once in a long while with custom freeplay races), but rather work within the homologation system. And in that system, the builds can be terribly limited such that you can't even tune fully, and many upgrades (tires) are excluded. Or if you can tune fully, you have to abandon power upgrades and/or add weight to give PI headroom. So I think that "the build makes car" doesn't apply as much. Though particularly in certain divisions, it certainly can.
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#127 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 11:27:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post

I probably wasn’t clear enough:

Greek ran cars from multiple tuners in that HLC including my QT tunes (same cars, sometimes even identical builds) which got several #1 beating out manual tunes from other capable tuners.

Which proves the fact that calculates tunes can be as fast as manual tures even from capable tuners.

You can make an effort and read his QT review on the play store which stands on its own I think.


I would have to see the tuning comp you are referring to. Was this a single track comp or multiple? Where do you do your generic tuning? You app is setup based on your tuning, nothing wrong with that. But if your base track is something with a lot of sweepers this app is going to be better for tracks like that. I can 100% guarantee my long beach tune and my suzuka tune are going to be very different due to the glaring differences in the track. This is still a base tuning program and if people are having to tweak the tune the program provides than one is still much better off learning to tune in a very simplistic tuning engine such as forza's vs putting it in a calc and still needing to adjust by track. Until this program offers a few different track options such as a lemans high speed tune, rio short style tune, good mix type like catalunya, medium fast like spa or suzuka, it is only a light base tune option even if it has happened to pump out a handfull of #1 tunes. As i said the numbers i mentioned previously have pumped out plenty of #1 tunes, but thats because the tune matters much less than the build as i previously stated.

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#128 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 11:34:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BadDog1966 Go to Quoted Post


I mention that because, as such, I don't play class based (once in a long while with custom freeplay races), but rather work within the homologation system. And in that system, the builds can be terribly limited such that you can't even tune fully, and many upgrades (tires) are excluded. Or if you can tune fully, you have to abandon power upgrades and/or add weight to give PI headroom. So I think that "the build makes car" doesn't apply as much. Though particularly in certain divisions, it certainly can.


Quite the contrary this would make the build matter even more followed by driving skill. If you are not able to put tune-able parts into building the car than the compromise between more power or more grip depending on track matters even more because you cant tweak the grip you have to make the car more drivable. I can say based on the pi system more often than not when you think more grip is going to be helpful adding more power may actually benefit you more. This varies depending on track tho. If you are going to a track like hockenhiem i would abandon that grip for more power depending on class and make more of a rocket car. If you are going to maple valley this would be the opposite even if all the parts you add were not tuneable. The approach to the build makes all the difference in the tune.


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#129 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 1:28:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post

I probably wasn’t clear enough:

Greek ran cars from multiple tuners in that HLC including my QT tunes (same cars, sometimes even identical builds) which got several #1 beating out manual tunes from other capable tuners.

Which proves the fact that calculates tunes can be as fast as manual tures even from capable tuners.

You can make an effort and read his QT review on the play store which stands on its own I think.


I would have to see the tuning comp you are referring to. Was this a single track comp or multiple? Where do you do your generic tuning? You app is setup based on your tuning, nothing wrong with that. But if your base track is something with a lot of sweepers this app is going to be better for tracks like that. I can 100% guarantee my long beach tune and my suzuka tune are going to be very different due to the glaring differences in the track. This is still a base tuning program and if people are having to tweak the tune the program provides than one is still much better off learning to tune in a very simplistic tuning engine such as forza's vs putting it in a calc and still needing to adjust by track. Until this program offers a few different track options such as a lemans high speed tune, rio short style tune, good mix type like catalunya, medium fast like spa or suzuka, it is only a light base tune option even if it has happened to pump out a handfull of #1 tunes. As i said the numbers i mentioned previously have pumped out plenty of #1 tunes, but thats because the tune matters much less than the build as i previously stated.

Have a read yourself, the link to the HLC thread is available in my post. Multiple tracks, multiple divisions, same calc.

QT is not about giving you a base tune but THE tune that’s why there are no sliders to adjust the tune.

While you need track specific builds you don’t need track specific tuning. Only exception are extreme high speed tracks with regard to aero and transmission tuning.

Edited by user Thursday, November 15, 2018 1:29:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#130 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 3:34:22 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Quite the contrary this would make the build matter even more followed by driving skill. If you are not able to put tune-able parts into building the car than the compromise between more power or more grip depending on track matters even more because you cant tweak the grip you have to make the car more drivable. I can say based on the pi system more often than not when you think more grip is going to be helpful adding more power may actually benefit you more. This varies depending on track tho. If you are going to a track like hockenhiem i would abandon that grip for more power depending on class and make more of a rocket car. If you are going to maple valley this would be the opposite even if all the parts you add were not tuneable. The approach to the build makes all the difference in the tune.

Fair point. I wasn't thinking of it like that, but that's what I was trying to say. I was thinking in terms of the lack of ability to add many upgrades making the build less variable. But of course, as you say, the compromises become far more important, thus making the build more important, particularly if you can't fit race suspension and/or both race sway bars. And I've found just as you say. For some cars on some tracks, my initial thought was lots of turns, so "grip". But to get the tunability for a grip tune, had to forfeit weight. And in the end, produced a slow race result. Going back and ditching the high end race upgrades for lesser non-tunable options, ditching the heavy roll cage or wheels or whatever that opened up the PI for those upgrades, and maybe still having some PI for engine upgrades (or not) produced vastly better outcomes with almost no tuning available.

One specific case I recall was the 68 GTO (and the 67 Chevelle). I like that era, that was MY era, and I personally owned/built several of those cars from the related divisions (66,67 and 70 GTO, several Chevelle, 70 Camaro SS/RS, 70 Cuda, 69 GTX, 72 L-82, etc). Anyway, my first few builds were real dogs. They cornered very well for the lumbering beasts, but just fell behind. I eventually went with "street" upgrades on some of the suspension and kept enough PI for cam upgrades. Just like I experienced in real life, the cam just changes the whole character. Still did ok with careful driving, but more power and longer between shifts (or no shifts on some shorter straights), and suddenly it was me running away with no real tuning at all (tires and diff only IIRC).

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#131 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 6:53:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post

I probably wasn’t clear enough:

Greek ran cars from multiple tuners in that HLC including my QT tunes (same cars, sometimes even identical builds) which got several #1 beating out manual tunes from other capable tuners.

Which proves the fact that calculates tunes can be as fast as manual tures even from capable tuners.

You can make an effort and read his QT review on the play store which stands on its own I think.


I would have to see the tuning comp you are referring to. Was this a single track comp or multiple? Where do you do your generic tuning? You app is setup based on your tuning, nothing wrong with that. But if your base track is something with a lot of sweepers this app is going to be better for tracks like that. I can 100% guarantee my long beach tune and my suzuka tune are going to be very different due to the glaring differences in the track. This is still a base tuning program and if people are having to tweak the tune the program provides than one is still much better off learning to tune in a very simplistic tuning engine such as forza's vs putting it in a calc and still needing to adjust by track. Until this program offers a few different track options such as a lemans high speed tune, rio short style tune, good mix type like catalunya, medium fast like spa or suzuka, it is only a light base tune option even if it has happened to pump out a handfull of #1 tunes. As i said the numbers i mentioned previously have pumped out plenty of #1 tunes, but thats because the tune matters much less than the build as i previously stated.

Have a read yourself, the link to the HLC thread is available in my post. Multiple tracks, multiple divisions, same calc.

QT is not about giving you a base tune but THE tune that’s why there are no sliders to adjust the tune.

While you need track specific builds you don’t need track specific tuning. Only exception are extreme high speed tracks with regard to aero and transmission tuning.


if track specific tuning isn't important why does pretty much every hot lapper have a tune for every single track even with the same lb car? If track specific tuning wasn't important than why does every single race team ever tune on a track by track basis? This makes no sense. It is an all around base tune regardless of how you want to brand it.


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#132 Posted : Thursday, November 15, 2018 10:06:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post

I probably wasn’t clear enough:

Greek ran cars from multiple tuners in that HLC including my QT tunes (same cars, sometimes even identical builds) which got several #1 beating out manual tunes from other capable tuners.

Which proves the fact that calculates tunes can be as fast as manual tures even from capable tuners.

You can make an effort and read his QT review on the play store which stands on its own I think.


I would have to see the tuning comp you are referring to. Was this a single track comp or multiple? Where do you do your generic tuning? You app is setup based on your tuning, nothing wrong with that. But if your base track is something with a lot of sweepers this app is going to be better for tracks like that. I can 100% guarantee my long beach tune and my suzuka tune are going to be very different due to the glaring differences in the track. This is still a base tuning program and if people are having to tweak the tune the program provides than one is still much better off learning to tune in a very simplistic tuning engine such as forza's vs putting it in a calc and still needing to adjust by track. Until this program offers a few different track options such as a lemans high speed tune, rio short style tune, good mix type like catalunya, medium fast like spa or suzuka, it is only a light base tune option even if it has happened to pump out a handfull of #1 tunes. As i said the numbers i mentioned previously have pumped out plenty of #1 tunes, but thats because the tune matters much less than the build as i previously stated.

Have a read yourself, the link to the HLC thread is available in my post. Multiple tracks, multiple divisions, same calc.

QT is not about giving you a base tune but THE tune that’s why there are no sliders to adjust the tune.

While you need track specific builds you don’t need track specific tuning. Only exception are extreme high speed tracks with regard to aero and transmission tuning.


if track specific tuning isn't important why does pretty much every hot lapper have a tune for every single track even with the same lb car? If track specific tuning wasn't important than why does every single race team ever tune on a track by track basis? This makes no sense. It is an all around base tune regardless of how you want to brand it.


Are you sure you are talking about track specific tunes not builds? Usually if you really want to have a top spot you always adjust the build accordingly in the first place. However there are tracks with similar characteristics so on these a single build might do the job.

Anyway I welcome you again to test out QT for free, at least you should or try it out first and then judge no?
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#133 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 5:06:53 PM(UTC)
I've just done some testing of these two apps. I tuned the Caterham, and tested it around 2 circuits in FH4, because I currently have more need to tune cars in FH4 than FM7. Fifty inch might complain that makes it an unfair test as his app doesn't state it supports FH4, so it's up to the reader to assess that.

I started off with a 100% stock tune, having built the car to 900 PI:
Bamburgh: 53.470
Lakehurst: 1:01.962

I then made some very simple adjustments of my own, I changed very little, but it took quite a lot of time off:
Bamburgh: 52.369 (1.10 faster than stock)
Lakehurst: 1:00.787 (1.18 faster than stock)

I then tried ForzaTune7, leaving the downforce settings as they were for my tune:
Bamburgh: 52.995 (0.63 slower than my tune)
Lakehurst: 1:01.245 (0.46 slower than my tune)

Then I tried QuickTune7, again leaving the downforce settings as they were for my tune. I also didn't apply any of its gearing settings, I left the gearing unchanged across all tunes:
Bamburgh: 53.103 (0.73 slower than my tune)
Lakehurst: 1:01.478 (0.69 slower than my tune)

So the results so far are very consistent across the two tracks, suggesting the differences are real rather than just random variations in my driving.

Both ForzaTune and QuickTune left a setting the same as stock, whereas I had changed that setting for my own tune, so I then tried the QuickTune tune with that one setting changed to match my own tune:
Bamburgh: 52.511 (0.14 slower than my tune)
Lakehurst: 1:01.053 (0.27 slower than my tune)

So that one setting accounted for most of the difference. I didn't try the same thing for ForzaTune as I think it's pretty certain it would have the same effect and bring it very close to my own tune.

Conclusion:
In terms of the settings the two apps altered that my own tune didn't, neither seemed to improve on the stock settings, and QuickTune seemed to make them very slightly worse. The results might look better than the 100% stock tune, but they had my downforce settings, which would have made a big difference on those two tracks. That's just for this one car on those two tracks, of course, the results might be different with other car and track combinations.

Subjectively, each app's tune introduced some problems that weren't there with the stock settings. I think I can learn something by putting all the settings into Excel and trying to work out which changes are having what effect. In that sense, both apps have some value in that they're giving you an "open" tune, something the game never gives you when you download a tune. ForzaTune in particular, with its sliders that allow you to adjust at a higher level, has some significant teaching value, as the sliders do to some extent have the effect they claim, though I found with some cars that there was a problem I wanted to fix that none of the sliders were addressing.
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#134 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 8:24:01 PM(UTC)
I finally broke out the 69 TA I had been eying for a while. Just never got to it before, and applied Baby Cow's tuning, followed by pretty minimal tweaks on my own, and the results are great. And this fits the pattern of our discussion. It's already at the top of the division, with very little to upgrade without dumping on weight to offset and get the PI headroom. No way race suspension is going to be practical. So like most of the others in that division, I focused on mild suspension improvements, managed to get in the race ARB at both ends, and a cam upgrade along with a few others to maximize the HP and lengthen the range between shifts. With the base tune suggested, it was more than a bit tail happy on mid turn through exit when combined with my build. With only minimal tweaks from BC's base suggestion (aero, rear ARB, and diff accell mainly), it settled right down and easily put me ahead of "Unbeatable" UI in 5 completely clean laps at Prague Full (probably could have made it in well under 4 or even less with a bit more aggressive overtakes). I didn't get to try FT7 and QT7 in the same car/build/environment (yet), but I must say I really liked the results. I didn't want to stop driving it...
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#135 Posted : Friday, November 16, 2018 8:39:02 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BadDog1966 Go to Quoted Post
I finally broke out the 69 TA I had been eying for a while. Just never got to it before, and applied Baby Cow's tuning, followed by pretty minimal tweaks on my own, and the results are great. And this fits the pattern of our discussion. It's already at the top of the division, with very little to upgrade without dumping on weight to offset and get the PI headroom. No way race suspension is going to be practical. So like most of the others in that division, I focused on mild suspension improvements, managed to get in the race ARB at both ends, and a cam upgrade along with a few others to maximize the HP and lengthen the range between shifts. With the base tune suggested, it was more than a bit tail happy on mid turn through exit when combined with my build. With only minimal tweaks from BC's base suggestion (aero, rear ARB, and diff accell mainly), it settled right down and easily put me ahead of "Unbeatable" UI in 5 completely clean laps at Prague Full (probably could have made it in well under 4 or even less with a bit more aggressive overtakes). I didn't get to try FT7 and QT7 in the same car/build/environment (yet), but I must say I really liked the results. I didn't want to stop driving it...


FYI. Unless all out power build avoid cams. They seem like great bang for the buck but are all in all one of the worst upgrades in the game.


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#136 Posted : Saturday, November 17, 2018 12:21:26 AM(UTC)
I would agree in general. And for most divisions it's a looser every time unless you are building a monster with essentially unlimited PI. But for me at least, the muscle cars seem to respond very well to the extended/broadened power band providing wider range in a single gear. Without it, you are into the readline and on the limiter very quickly, and the very slow shifts often drop you off the front of the torque curve. And you can often not fit a sport trans, much less a race trans to adjust the gearing. It doesn't always work out, but I find it often does in those related divisionis. Sometimes it just feels better to improve the shape of the curve as opposed to max HP for PI. Likewise I've felt a good return on a few when getting close on HP limits but still want more out of a power build.

I had time tonight only for 1 race after posting that earlier. I got out the 73 TA (always had a thing for the Pontiacs) that I had previously tuned. It responded equally well based on your advice. Thank you. My top time on Prague LB is still in the 69 TA, but the 73 got within a tenth of matching it. And that's with just a few races in them, I'm sure I can improve substantially. Tonight on unlimited I was passing #1 clean (unbeatable) at the end of the first lap. I've been having to shorten races to create challenge, but looks like I'm going to have to start dropping to the back at the start, or racing base homologated. I know I'm nowhere near the folks that are really good, I can tell that clearly enough from the LBs. But I sure wish they had more levels of better AI, or would do something to make online worth playing.
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#137 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2018 5:47:15 AM(UTC)
Baddog,

Just remember feels better doesnt always equate to better. I can tell you that most muscle cars have plenty of power and you are better off trying to get the most grip you can get into them. I believe forza 2 was the days of the rocket tunes (i never played forza 2). They came back in forza 4 a bit until they were nerfed. Example the 86(?) camaro in c class. This car was a major leaderboard car especially on short tracks by simply adding tyres, suspension, arbs, brakes. The car had a decent amount of power but had crazy accelleration. The cars top speed was only around 120 but it got there very fast and then you would just ride the rev limiter down the remainder of the straight. I believe the car only had like 4 gears and the gearbox was terrible, but the car was much worse if you spent the pi points on an upgraded transmission.

Similarly in forza 5(? or 6) rocket cars also made a come back in a class. Take old car, swap in the nascar v8 motor add tyre and handeling parts, no trans and ride that 4 speed and be in what seemed like the wrong gear all the time. Most corners you would come out in like 2nd gear but because of the power you easily made up the defecit and this was a much better option than putting a trans or cams in it.

I honestly dont remember any builds from any lb style tunes that cam was a viable option. You are almost always better off adding something like air filter which removes weight, or exhaust which removes weight.

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#138 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:25:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
I honestly don't remember any builds from any lb style tunes that cam was a viable option. You are almost always better off adding something like air filter which removes weight, or exhaust which removes weight.


..✅...👍 +1

.


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#139 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2018 8:40:44 AM(UTC)
Is exhaust better than something like ignition or is it better to go for more power instead? There have been conflicting opinions in the past...

I add cams purely for show, but one thing to keep in mind is that cams don't give you any torque. They're very inefficient in PI usage because their power increase is biased towards top speed, which is the most useless stat in the game.
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#140 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2018 9:26:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Is exhaust better than something like ignition or is it better to go for more power instead? There have been conflicting opinions in the past....


My FIRST engine upgrade is ALWAYS the Exhaust (Race, and if it does not fit within PI, then Sport and so on), before I select anything else. At times, even giving up in other grip areas.

Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
They're very inefficient in PI usage because their power increase is biased towards top speed, which is the most useless stat in the game.


Correct!
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#141 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2018 10:45:53 AM(UTC)
Fair enough. Won't be the first time I'm wrong.

Not sure when I'll have a chance to play again, but for comparison I'll break out the same 2 Pontiacs and rebuild without cams and then run on the same tracks to see what I get. As you say, the only meaningful metric is the times produced. The tires are as big as I can make them without sacrificing too much other stuff, and the suspension on both is working well with the current power curve, so that likely means freeing up a bunch of PI for other power options. I've always focused on stuff that provides power and reduces weight (always a top goal), but those take substantially more PI. Like the exhaust, seems like I can only rarely fit exhaust upgrades because they are so expensive in terms of PI, but lower weight not only improves acceleration, but also improves breaking and turning performance. Lots of factors to weigh...
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#142 Posted : Tuesday, November 20, 2018 7:53:59 PM(UTC)
Noob question. I get that with PI you want to use upgrades that are most efficient. I don't quite get the index though. Is the goal for, say, A-class to get the PI as high as you can before it switches up to S1? I mainly play solo races so the drivetars usually have parity.
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#143 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 4:46:14 AM(UTC)
Yes. When upgrading you want yo get to the top if the class in the class based leaderboards or class racing.

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#144 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:44:54 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HLR PRKid Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Is exhaust better than something like ignition or is it better to go for more power instead? There have been conflicting opinions in the past....


My FIRST engine upgrade is ALWAYS the Exhaust (Race, and if it does not fit within PI, then Sport and so on), before I select anything else. At times, even giving up in other grip areas.
.


Thanks mate! :)

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#145 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:49:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BadDog1966 Go to Quoted Post
Fair enough. Won't be the first time I'm wrong.

Not sure when I'll have a chance to play again, but for comparison I'll break out the same 2 Pontiacs and rebuild without cams and then run on the same tracks to see what I get. As you say, the only meaningful metric is the times produced. The tires are as big as I can make them without sacrificing too much other stuff, and the suspension on both is working well with the current power curve, so that likely means freeing up a bunch of PI for other power options. I've always focused on stuff that provides power and reduces weight (always a top goal), but those take substantially more PI. Like the exhaust, seems like I can only rarely fit exhaust upgrades because they are so expensive in terms of PI, but lower weight not only improves acceleration, but also improves breaking and turning performance. Lots of factors to weigh...


In FM7, many muscle cars' sounds have been made artificially higher-pitched, so there's not a huge loss when it comes to sound, unless that 5000 rpm redline really bothers you. Usually, the Street transmission will lower PI while giving more usable gears to work with.

But that's for divisional play. In classes there could be other secrets I'm not privy to since I don't play them much.

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#146 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 10:02:30 AM(UTC)
I did get a chance to play again last night for a bit. I rebuilt without cam and added in a maximized power build. I kept the street trans and street brakes but no chassis reinforcement, basically the same as when I was running with the street cam. Anyway, the best I could do without the cam was actually 1 HP less than I had with the street cam build. But I ran it, and after a few laps to work out the different shift points I got almost the same time. I then tried a power build focused on lowered weight, including exhaust. Lost some HP but weight was down significantly. Repeat, right down to the best times being about the same. Finally I did a weight reduction build including max chassis weight reduction and lost a lot of HP in the balance. With that I suffered a bit for top end vs the Unbeatable HP bonus on the fairly short Catalunya Full straights, but made it up otherwise including early straight from momentum. That actually produced a slight improvement in my LB time. But once I adapted to the changes (reclaiming initial lost time), none of those changes made a really major impact on my times. For Road Racing on Cat Full I'm somewhere around #10 on the LB, moving up from something like 16 with the cam build. But that could easily be just be improvements from more time lapping the same car on the same track with the same AI again and again.

I'm starting to feel like the PI system isn't so bad, at least in this case. For those dramatically different focused builds, they all had the max PI for the division, and all produced comparable times within a few tenths. For other tacks, I expect the builds likely make more difference, but on this one for this division, I was amazed at how consistent the final times were. Tunes and builds really didn't make all that much difference. I definitely have my preferences for easy/fun to drive, and best match for easy/clean overtaking at ideal points on a specific track, but for best lap time on an 8 lap race, none of it seemed to matter much. The clean laps always on the last 2 or 3 where I'm settled with the build/tune and well clear of the pack so no draft dirty, that's why 8 laps
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#147 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 11:39:08 AM(UTC)
Cat is a very diverse track and you may be correct. Quite a few of the tuners I know use this to tune an all around car as there is a good variety of everything on this circuit. Fairly long straight, high speed sweepers, quick direction change, tight slow corners etc. I am not sure with the class you are building to how many viable options you have in the build so its tough to say off hand. Cat however is also a very tricky track in which time can be made and lost easily and consistency is tough due to the technicality of the track.

Just curious if the car you are driving has a relatively good top speed rating? Every car in forza gets crippled that has a good high speed rating, whereas they do not put enough weight into the ratings of accelleration. Cars that tend to be overachievers are cars that start with a really low top speed rating but have a higher accel rating. Apparently pi is given out by forza because they have a "balanced" track with a mix of everything that they have a computer program drive around this fake track. The computer then assigns pi based on the results of the lap around this track. The problem with this is the track must have a really long straight so it gives cars a higher pi that have good top speed even tho the majority of tracks do not have a long straight. I also dont understand why if they have the program in place they cant run the car on every track or even every layout and then rank them based on total time from all tracks/layouts as this would be much more accurate even if you include lemans and the ring, both of which have a really long straight.

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#148 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 7:55:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Yes. When upgrading you want yo get to the top if the class in the class based leaderboards or class racing.

Even for solo races where the competition index matches yours closely?

Why do some upgrades do nothing sometimes? For example I put a sport driveline and some numbers will turn green which I take means positive effect but the numbers do not increase and the bars stay the same?

Edited by user Wednesday, November 21, 2018 7:58:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: X-Class Racing License
#149 Posted : Wednesday, November 21, 2018 8:19:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ConfusedGalaxy6 Go to Quoted Post
Why do some upgrades do nothing sometimes? For example I put a sport driveline and some numbers will turn green which I take means positive effect but the numbers do not increase and the bars stay the same?


The stats do not provide that level of resolution (only Y.x values, one decimal place), yet, you can compare different builds and you'll see that they are highlighted as better (even builds with identical stats, as far as exact numbers go to ONE decimal place only). Best way is to TEST, TEST, and TEST again.
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DJ Saoco
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#150 Posted : Friday, November 23, 2018 2:58:38 PM(UTC)
Yes I thought maybe because power curves changed but not stats then that gave room to optimize other improvements.
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