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^Myself, GRID has better sounds than Forza Horizon 4 overall (and even FM7), but it was much harder to stomach the poor gameplay in it than the bad sounds in Forza.

The old Forzas weren't the be all end it all when it comes to sounds either, lots of mixing and matching over there. The fact the result was better than this one does not make them ideal. IMO, what the old Forzas did best was capture the most popular cars right... at the expense of the lesser known ones, which aren't accurate at all.

To my knowledge, PCARS2 is pretty overrated when it comes to sounds. Assetto, I remember when people were saying FMOD would "revolutionize" its sounds, but it didn't do squat, it does have many good and accurate sounds but it suffers from that muffled tone you hear in low quality sounds.

But the point is, why are you comparing Assetto Corsa and Dirt Rally to an arcade game like FH4? Are you really this fickle to pick racing games based on car sound? lol Even though I acknowledge Dirt Rally has superior sounds to Forza, I'll just not play it, not interested, it's not my type of game. Has me wondering whether you play Dirt Rally just to cruise around the rally stages listening to the sound, which is far detached from the real scope of the game.

I wonder what you'd think of TDU then. Which was very bad sounding, yes, but by no means a poor game. GRID 2008 has worse sounds than GRID 2019 (like, way worse, the Supra sounded like a 911 for example), but GRID 2008 is a vastly superior game.

To be fair the engine tones in FH4 and FM7 are pretty accurate, they just lack low end, and they're really harsh at high volume. I like to turn my system up to the level the actual car would be if I were in it. I do research these things on some cars, and some I have had the pleasure of running around the Indianapolis Speedway thanks to supercar rental services that have been around the last few years. My biggest beef is that I can't feel the bass without turning them up to like 80dB, and upon doing so they're so harsh that I have to turn it back down. Thus ruining my immersive experience.

Say what you will, but FH is the closest we get to a proper open world immersive driving experience. Handling and visuals are second to none. I just want the sound to be as well. In some cases it really is. Audi R8 in FH4 is the most insanely accurate reproduction of a V10 I've ever heard in a game ( albeit a lil heavy on the bass ) , and the LFA... well, that thing just sounds insane too. Most sounds are, they just lack low end and have a bit too much from say 1khz upward. Dynamic range was clearly an afterthought in FM7. If all cars were balanced out to say the level of the LFA, Supra RZ, 488 Pista/GTB I'd be a very happy camper. Hell, if they all got bass levels of those cars I would be. All the McLarens in this game sound excellent ( even tho a couple are just wrong engine tone). I constantly send them tickets regarding this EQ balancing with hopes that they'll do something about it considering we have to wait quite a while yet before the next Horizon is released. I'd much rather I didn't have to use my EQ band-aids to get what I'm after. PG has done a spectacular job with most cars they've done themselves. We just happened to get the short end of the stick for some reason with the majority of the cars in game.

The last few months have seen some sound improvements, but they're not quite there. The last few months have seen my EQ band-aid change considerably for the better. I'm now at like a -4dB 1khz high shelf, and a +3dB 195hz low shelf. Used to be that I'd have to push the low shelf like 12dB, and the high shelf like 9 (still is in some cases. looking at you racing V12 and Ferrari 812). Most the FM7 ported sounds still lack a bit too much bass, and feel really flat compared to the cars that PG have done themselves. I don't know the full story, but I caught a rumor that they lost like 40 or 50 gigs of new sounds during the production of FH4. That would explain why the majority still have their really awful sounds from FM7. If they'd just clean up the mid range, and boost the lows a bit more I think they'll be good enough until FH5 or FH if it's a reboot like FM. I'm betting it will be. IMHO there is nothing out there that is remotely close to either Forza title. I love these games, I just wish they didn't make my ears bleed.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 1, 2020 9:53:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Which is why I wouldn't expect much change for the better in any departments this coming generation.

Much like EA's yearly sports games there's no worthwhile competition, unfortunately both FM + FH appear to be aiming towards that calibre of fan too, the type that buys those games every single year out of habit and never asks any questions.

As right as anyone here is to want accurate car sounds in a car game I think the average FH4 player wouldn't care if they all used a Henry Hoover noise.

Showing off graphically + constant engagement will be the 2 biggest aims for the next Motorsport + Horizon games above all else.

This is a discussion on sound - so why would I not compare Forza with other racing games for audio quality?

LOL - your post threw me off completely.

DR, Ride 3, PCARS2, Assetto all have great motor and exhaust sounds - way, wayy better than Forza. There are hits and misses, sure. But the end result is vastly better than the last two Forza games.



I think developers need to change this stance on "ohh, that sound will take up too much space". I say make a game that exceeds even 100 or 150 gigs, I don't mind. As long as the sounds are on par with everything else in the game.

There are some excellent samples in both FM7 and FH4 - but all have this problem: they sound dwarfed and tiny. It's like the car is never there with you. Squashed dynamic range, lack of bass and impactful midrange sound - the kind that makes you feel the rumble and vibration, reverberates beautifully through your speakers and kicks you in the chest.

Why'd they lose all that great stuff?

I hate the inconsistencies. This has got to stop. Forza should stop competing with NFS or other franchises and instead just focus on keeping it's older and current fans happy.

Edited by user Thursday, September 3, 2020 10:18:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

tecsenic: "To be fair the engine tones in FH4 and FM7 are pretty accurate, they just lack low end, and they're really harsh at high volume. "


You shure are no golden ear, and why do I get the feeling you are listening through some crappy pc-speakers..

First, eneginesound is way of in pitch for many engines, typically sampled at around 50% speed. And second, too mamy engines sounds like vacuum-cleaners even when max upgraded.

You clearly didn't understand what I said. The tones are accurate, the engineering is not. Engineering is what you're talking about primarily ( vacuum-cleaners ) and that is caused by a severe tilt toward the high end and lack of dynamic range on the low. There are only a handful that have the 50% speed problem you speak of ( Toyota 2000GT for instance ). The rest of the sounds are pretty accurate tho they have poor engineering. What about this is hard to understand? Take the new Porsche 718 added to FH4 for instance, that is about as accurate as it can get. And the 488 that everyone says is wrong, isn't. They recorded a Novitec Rosso equipped 488 for the game, and it really couldn't be more accurate. Sure there are instances of absolutely awful sound design and engineering, but there's really not that many of them. Especially not now that they've been working on the engineering in FH4.

And my sound systems are probably far greater than anything you've got. I have the exact same studio monitors that PG does according to the image on their website ( PMC Two Two 8 ), and my living room is equipped with a combination of SVS and Klipsch.

Edited by user Thursday, September 3, 2020 3:39:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

This has wery little to do with sound-enigineering. Most of the enginesounds used in this game has nothing to do with any real-world engine, they are just cheap no-name samples, totally unrecogniceable. Some cars though can surpricely be just that; recogniceable. Like the Porsche 718. Far from beeing accurate but still recogniceable, acceptable for a game.

The 488 on the other hand made me smile. Wow, this really sounds a lot like the real thing, one of the wery few I`ve found so far. Nice job done here.

Your monitors are not as bad as I thought but in my world they are not suitable for serious listening. Spent much time at the racetrack? Or in the depos? I have, and I know quite a bit about how certain engines really sounds and how modifications affects them. Like higher compression, longer duration cams or different exhaustsystems. Been around many cars & tuners through the years so I am not too easily decieved when it comes to enginespeed or sound.

But first of all I`ve been into high-end audio, primarely as a speakerdesigner. People really think I have my hotted up car with me in my livingroom when I turn up my system, heard that a few times.




1960 Porsche 718 in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-R1NFzjWm0

The speakers that we listen to on Youtube are still our own speakers, yet the cars on YouTube sound good.

I wasn't talking about the old 718. How are PMC Two Two 8s not suitable for serious listening? That statement right there pretty much invalidates everything you've said. We're done here.

This right here is a good indication of where things are headed. No X series for me then. Forza was great on the X360 and okay on the Xbox One.

I wouldn't say that. Series X has some new spacial audio hardware that I'm sure they'll want to show off so my money is on FM and FH5 ( possible FH reboot as well ) sounding excellent. So I think we'll be hearing 'ray traced' audio as well as seeing ray traced visuals. I'd also like to point out that my most recent ticket about how obnoxious the mids and upper mids are in this game is still open and not marked 'solved'. Could be they're just doing that to make me think they're doing something, or it could be that they're actually working on the problem. My money is on the latter cos since I've been sending these tickets, I've noticed audio changes in the game with almost every update in the last year.

Edited by user Wednesday, September 9, 2020 2:52:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Just to say that support tickets have stopped being processed like for more than a week now. Regardless the reason that I hope is not related to some health/covid issue, it could explain why your tickets were not tagged as closed / "team" informed.
Globally, unlike what I did for FH4, I will wait for the feedback before coming to FH5 and I guess many FH fans having bought the ultimate version of FH4 as pre release will do the same.

Not true. I have seen other tickets that I've put in closed in a timely manner while others remain open to this day.

I'm enjoying the 3.2L I6 transplant motor in the '99 Lotus Elise Sport 190. Plenty of bass and growl on bumper or bonet cam. The chase cams sound anemic though.

This new Range Rover Velar has a weird mix of a V6 and V12 ( taken directly from Aston Martin DB11 ) yet is engineered with more low end and weight. Still an abundance of mid range in first person like this truck comes stock with straight pipes. I really wish I knew why they do this. Sounds like everything between 600hz and 2khz is pushed too hard for no good reason ( at least 3khz has been dialed back so that's a plus I suppose). Drives me mad. On one hand I'm pleased that it has some weight and makes my subwoofer move and that the supercharger is quite audible, but on the other I'm mad that they just can't seem to get their mid range in order. There's new exhaust pops too that I've heard added to other cars recently ( '14 Porsche 911 Turbo S, and McLaren 570S for instance) that I dig, but I fear they may be a bit too inspired by NFS Heat's 'overrun' exhaust feature ( as the pops are accompanied by more flames ). Just make things as close to RL as possible given current technologies. Quit trying to stylize them to the max for no good reason other than to MAYBE compete with NFS Heat. Let NFS do their thing, and you do yours (closer to RL than any other racing title). I really hope the sound team gets its stuff together for the next Horizon else I'm done with it. At least we have TDU SC to look forward to in the near future.

Could you change the sound of the Aston Martin DBS from Forza Horizon 4 and put the version of Forza Motorsport 4 where the V12 engine is more realistic?

Sounds to me like another engineering update got rolled out. Getting more sub movement, and the cars sound thicker like the lower mids were beefed up.

I've been playing some FH1 and a few things stood out to me:

- Many of the sounds in FH1 remain in FH4 in some form, sometimes even in different cars
- The sample rate for the FH1 sounds is extremely low, which makes sense as the Xbox 360 had only 512MB of RAM

So you have plenty of accurate cars but they all sound bad because the quality is low. Besides, there's quite a few cars with exactly the same sounds.

What changed between last gen and current gen Forza wasn't so much the sounds as it was how T10 and PG used them, and I think T10 is more to blame here because FH4 took FM7 as a starting point and vanilla FM7 had lot of questionable audio choices when it comes to sample accuracy.

The samples do sound a lot better in current gen, and even more so in Forza Motorsport games, due to the masters not being downscaled as much.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:34:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified