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Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1076 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2019 8:13:33 AM(UTC)
*sorry, double post*

Edited by user Sunday, May 19, 2019 8:15:47 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#1077 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2019 8:26:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post


They're using full range mics are they not? I don't know of a single car that has the same sound in both the interior and the exterior let alone have a low cut at around 200hz. The majority of these sound like they were engineered by a rookie edm guy. They're narrow, cut at 200hz, and have waaaaay too much upper mids and high end and waaaay too little dynamic range. I understand full well how difficult sound design is, I've been designing sounds for the better part of the last 20 years and engineering it for the last 10. I just don't understand how anyone at that studio can listen to say the Aston Martin Vanquish ( 1 of at least 500 ) 'n decide that is a viable product. All I want is for this visual feast to sound as good as it looks. There are some examples of great sound design, but the majority are just awful and need to be updated. The response we got in the last stream just does not give any sign of hope. The least they can do is take the sounds from the recent FM7 update and port those over. I know this can be done cos that's where some of these FH4 sound updates came from ( R34 for example ). So go grab all those FM7 updates and toss them in here. There's NO reason these 2 sister titles should sound any different other than the environment. Make them sound the same, just make each do different things. FM for track days, and FH for everything else.

So again, I say that all we got from the last stream talking about audio was excuses. IT'S SO HARD. Well, give the job to someone who is passionate enough to do the job right then. At the very least make effort to fix the issues that are there. Don't just shrug us off like we're a buncha idiots who don't know audio.


I'm hearing what this guy is hearing.

Edited by user Sunday, May 19, 2019 8:26:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1078 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2019 11:40:12 AM(UTC)
It's all too bad really. The devs will NOT be reading this thread. The support staff are apparently only interacting in the SUPPORT sub-forum.

NOTHING will be fixed. Maybe with new cars, maybe with Forza Horizon 5. But for FH4, don't expect the cars' audio to be fixed. As they have already said, it was a BUDGET decision. All the sales in the world won't retrospectively change that.

(caps for emphasis, not shouting)
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#1079 Posted : Sunday, May 19, 2019 2:53:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: grolschie Go to Quoted Post
It's all too bad really. The devs will NOT be reading this thread. The support staff are apparently only interacting in the SUPPORT sub-forum.

NOTHING will be fixed. Maybe with new cars, maybe with Forza Horizon 5. But for FH4, don't expect the cars' audio to be fixed. As they have already said, it was a BUDGET decision. All the sales in the world won't retrospectively change that.

(caps for emphasis, not shouting)


I believe otherwise, and they said the same about FM7 but look what is happening there. We will not give up. They're capable, and they need to fix the issues that are there.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1080 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 1:05:53 AM(UTC)
Right - luckily, as consumers we have the option to not buy a product if issues continue to carry forward in future games. From what I understand, car audio issues started to surface in FH3 and got worse with the latest game.
Rank: Driver's License
#1081 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 2:42:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
They're using full range mics are they not? I don't know of a single car that has the same sound in both the interior and the exterior let alone have a low cut at around 200hz. The majority of these sound like they were engineered by a rookie edm guy. They're narrow, cut at 200hz, and have waaaaay too much upper mids and high end and waaaay too little dynamic range. I understand full well how difficult sound design is, I've been designing sounds for the better part of the last 20 years and engineering it for the last 10. I just don't understand how anyone at that studio can listen to say the Aston Martin Vanquish ( 1 of at least 500 ) 'n decide that is a viable product. All I want is for this visual feast to sound as good as it looks. There are some examples of great sound design, but the majority are just awful and need to be updated. The response we got in the last stream just does not give any sign of hope. The least they can do is take the sounds from the recent FM7 update and port those over. I know this can be done cos that's where some of these FH4 sound updates came from ( R34 for example ). So go grab all those FM7 updates and toss them in here. There's NO reason these 2 sister titles should sound any different other than the environment. Make them sound the same, just make each do different things. FM for track days, and FH for everything else.

So again, I say that all we got from the last stream talking about audio was excuses. IT'S SO HARD. Well, give the job to someone who is passionate enough to do the job right then. At the very least make effort to fix the issues that are there. Don't just shrug us off like we're a buncha idiots who don't know audio.


I couldn’t tell from the video what microphones where used. I saw some long range microphones but I don’t know what they used for the cabin, the exhaust, or the engine. (Looks like a long range on the exhaust of the viper).

I just listened to the whole audio segment, and there’s a lot of stuff in there that you guys are missing out on. I don’t know the guys name (the guy with the glasses), but he definitely proficient in audio.

He starts off talking about finding the right cars which is the main thing about getting the desired sound. The instrument constitutes for half of the recording. He then talks a lot about the mic’ing process which is the second most important part about getting the sounds. He talks about mic position which is how to get the desired sound without having to touch the EQ. This plays a role in imaging (frequency is registered on the vertical axis). He brought up the fact that the mics used on the exhaust were getting proximity effect which means these mics are probably dynamic. They had to eq out 2-300 Hz which is where the saturation (fullness of sound) is. They still have the engine note, there’s just no “fullness of sound,” that’s being complained about due to the mics being used. Too much low mid proximity effect masks the engine note. I haven’t looked at microphones in a while but I don’t think that there are any wireless large diaphragm condenser microphones to get rid of the proximity effect. All the while keeping the saturation or fullness of sound (which is there for me). This would be a problem for any game trying to capture car sounds. It constitutes for 10 percent of the recording which isn’t much but it does apply to all game engineers. Mic placement is more important than EQ’ing which is why he talks a lot about the recording of the sounds on the stream. They had to take into context the placement of the microphones around the sound source in order to avoid washing out certain frequencies. He also talks about getting rid of the noise that the exhaust produces at high rpms. This is due to the amount of air that was blowing into the microphone from the fast moving exhaust gases.

There’s a lot in there man. Hoops they had to jump through, decibel restrictions, finding a smooth airstrip etc.

He get’s into granular synthesis (post #27) which is really really cool. He’s definitely a good sound guy, sound design is very interesting topic. It’s a must know for a professional engineer or producer.


Talking about how job SHOULD be done doesn't mean that this guy is actually good at this job - game itself is supporting this claim. In theory he nicely explained what the problems of sound engineering are and how this problems should be addressed. He also explained the methodology of transferring the recorded sounds into the game itself. Final product sounds like they didn't apply the theory which the guy in the video explained.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1082 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 9:35:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clonedemned Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
They're using full range mics are they not? I don't know of a single car that has the same sound in both the interior and the exterior let alone have a low cut at around 200hz. The majority of these sound like they were engineered by a rookie edm guy. They're narrow, cut at 200hz, and have waaaaay too much upper mids and high end and waaaay too little dynamic range. I understand full well how difficult sound design is, I've been designing sounds for the better part of the last 20 years and engineering it for the last 10. I just don't understand how anyone at that studio can listen to say the Aston Martin Vanquish ( 1 of at least 500 ) 'n decide that is a viable product. All I want is for this visual feast to sound as good as it looks. There are some examples of great sound design, but the majority are just awful and need to be updated. The response we got in the last stream just does not give any sign of hope. The least they can do is take the sounds from the recent FM7 update and port those over. I know this can be done cos that's where some of these FH4 sound updates came from ( R34 for example ). So go grab all those FM7 updates and toss them in here. There's NO reason these 2 sister titles should sound any different other than the environment. Make them sound the same, just make each do different things. FM for track days, and FH for everything else.

So again, I say that all we got from the last stream talking about audio was excuses. IT'S SO HARD. Well, give the job to someone who is passionate enough to do the job right then. At the very least make effort to fix the issues that are there. Don't just shrug us off like we're a buncha idiots who don't know audio.


I couldn’t tell from the video what microphones where used. I saw some long range microphones but I don’t know what they used for the cabin, the exhaust, or the engine. (Looks like a long range on the exhaust of the viper).

I just listened to the whole audio segment, and there’s a lot of stuff in there that you guys are missing out on. I don’t know the guys name (the guy with the glasses), but he definitely proficient in audio.

He starts off talking about finding the right cars which is the main thing about getting the desired sound. The instrument constitutes for half of the recording. He then talks a lot about the mic’ing process which is the second most important part about getting the sounds. He talks about mic position which is how to get the desired sound without having to touch the EQ. This plays a role in imaging (frequency is registered on the vertical axis). He brought up the fact that the mics used on the exhaust were getting proximity effect which means these mics are probably dynamic. They had to eq out 2-300 Hz which is where the saturation (fullness of sound) is. They still have the engine note, there’s just no “fullness of sound,” that’s being complained about due to the mics being used. Too much low mid proximity effect masks the engine note. I haven’t looked at microphones in a while but I don’t think that there are any wireless large diaphragm condenser microphones to get rid of the proximity effect. All the while keeping the saturation or fullness of sound (which is there for me). This would be a problem for any game trying to capture car sounds. It constitutes for 10 percent of the recording which isn’t much but it does apply to all game engineers. Mic placement is more important than EQ’ing which is why he talks a lot about the recording of the sounds on the stream. They had to take into context the placement of the microphones around the sound source in order to avoid washing out certain frequencies. He also talks about getting rid of the noise that the exhaust produces at high rpms. This is due to the amount of air that was blowing into the microphone from the fast moving exhaust gases.

There’s a lot in there man. Hoops they had to jump through, decibel restrictions, finding a smooth airstrip etc.

He get’s into granular synthesis (post #27) which is really really cool. He’s definitely a good sound guy, sound design is very interesting topic. It’s a must know for a professional engineer or producer.


Talking about how job SHOULD be done doesn't mean that this guy is actually good at this job - game itself is supporting this claim. In theory he nicely explained what the problems of sound engineering are and how this problems should be addressed. He also explained the methodology of transferring the recorded sounds into the game itself. Final product sounds like they didn't apply the theory which the guy in the video explained.


He addressed the problems and every solution to the problems that they had. He’s definitely a legit sound guy. There are no grey areas in how they actually did the job. Everything’s there in black and white. I didn’t hear anything that I could critique. They just recorded the wrong viper and the wrong nissan which is something that can be fixed.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1083 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 9:58:16 AM(UTC)
But the question is: do they acknowledge their mistakes? How pro-active have they been in fixing the messed up sounds?

Anybody remember that Caveizel guy that worked on FM4? They need to double his salary and get him back from PD, pronto!
Rank: Driver's License
#1084 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 10:22:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Clonedemned Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
They're using full range mics are they not? I don't know of a single car that has the same sound in both the interior and the exterior let alone have a low cut at around 200hz. The majority of these sound like they were engineered by a rookie edm guy. They're narrow, cut at 200hz, and have waaaaay too much upper mids and high end and waaaay too little dynamic range. I understand full well how difficult sound design is, I've been designing sounds for the better part of the last 20 years and engineering it for the last 10. I just don't understand how anyone at that studio can listen to say the Aston Martin Vanquish ( 1 of at least 500 ) 'n decide that is a viable product. All I want is for this visual feast to sound as good as it looks. There are some examples of great sound design, but the majority are just awful and need to be updated. The response we got in the last stream just does not give any sign of hope. The least they can do is take the sounds from the recent FM7 update and port those over. I know this can be done cos that's where some of these FH4 sound updates came from ( R34 for example ). So go grab all those FM7 updates and toss them in here. There's NO reason these 2 sister titles should sound any different other than the environment. Make them sound the same, just make each do different things. FM for track days, and FH for everything else.

So again, I say that all we got from the last stream talking about audio was excuses. IT'S SO HARD. Well, give the job to someone who is passionate enough to do the job right then. At the very least make effort to fix the issues that are there. Don't just shrug us off like we're a buncha idiots who don't know audio.


I couldn’t tell from the video what microphones where used. I saw some long range microphones but I don’t know what they used for the cabin, the exhaust, or the engine. (Looks like a long range on the exhaust of the viper).

I just listened to the whole audio segment, and there’s a lot of stuff in there that you guys are missing out on. I don’t know the guys name (the guy with the glasses), but he definitely proficient in audio.

He starts off talking about finding the right cars which is the main thing about getting the desired sound. The instrument constitutes for half of the recording. He then talks a lot about the mic’ing process which is the second most important part about getting the sounds. He talks about mic position which is how to get the desired sound without having to touch the EQ. This plays a role in imaging (frequency is registered on the vertical axis). He brought up the fact that the mics used on the exhaust were getting proximity effect which means these mics are probably dynamic. They had to eq out 2-300 Hz which is where the saturation (fullness of sound) is. They still have the engine note, there’s just no “fullness of sound,” that’s being complained about due to the mics being used. Too much low mid proximity effect masks the engine note. I haven’t looked at microphones in a while but I don’t think that there are any wireless large diaphragm condenser microphones to get rid of the proximity effect. All the while keeping the saturation or fullness of sound (which is there for me). This would be a problem for any game trying to capture car sounds. It constitutes for 10 percent of the recording which isn’t much but it does apply to all game engineers. Mic placement is more important than EQ’ing which is why he talks a lot about the recording of the sounds on the stream. They had to take into context the placement of the microphones around the sound source in order to avoid washing out certain frequencies. He also talks about getting rid of the noise that the exhaust produces at high rpms. This is due to the amount of air that was blowing into the microphone from the fast moving exhaust gases.

There’s a lot in there man. Hoops they had to jump through, decibel restrictions, finding a smooth airstrip etc.

He get’s into granular synthesis (post #27) which is really really cool. He’s definitely a good sound guy, sound design is very interesting topic. It’s a must know for a professional engineer or producer.


Talking about how job SHOULD be done doesn't mean that this guy is actually good at this job - game itself is supporting this claim. In theory he nicely explained what the problems of sound engineering are and how this problems should be addressed. He also explained the methodology of transferring the recorded sounds into the game itself. Final product sounds like they didn't apply the theory which the guy in the video explained.


He addressed the problems and every solution to the problems that they had. He’s definitely a legit sound guy. There are no grey areas in how they actually did the job. Everything’s there in black and white. I didn’t hear anything that I could critique. They just recorded the wrong viper and the wrong nissan which is something that can be fixed.


I begin to suspect that you are the guy who did the engine sounds for FH4
Rank: Racing Permit
#1085 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 11:23:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
But the question is: do they acknowledge their mistakes? How pro-active have they been in fixing the messed up sounds?

Anybody remember that Caveizel guy that worked on FM4? They need to double his salary and get him back from PD, pronto!


The Zonda Cinque sound is completely wrong in FM4, always has been.

Originally Posted by: Clonedemned Go to Quoted Post
I begin to suspect that you are the guy who did the engine sounds for FH4


I’ve had a degree in audio production for almost 5 years now. All I can say is that they’re listening. They showed you the viper and the skyline they recorded which are the two most complained about cars in the game. They could’ve just shown the cars that sound right. If the feedback from the stream points out something that’s legitimately wrong then I’m sure they’ll fix it. We have updates in both FM7 and FH4 that both could benefit from. T10 and PG started to get behind in FH3. It had watered down physics and a new sound platform. They’re taking their time with the next project because FM7 and FH4 are two rushed titles. FM7 debuted with one new to Forza car (the GT2 RS), and a lot of bugs that are still there. FH4 didn’t do any better, and why there isn’t a Honda Odyssey in FH4 makes no sense to me. I’m sure they’ll get it right if they take their time with the new features they’re putting into the game.
Rank: Driver's License
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#1086 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 11:36:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
If that's true then I hope all manufacturers insist on having their respective cars' audio character represented correctly before agreeing to license them in a PG/T10 game!

The American cars in the game as well as many Japanese cars sound terrible in comparison. The R8 really is a *golden* sample in my opinion. It even sounds powerful and I can feel the notes coming through my subwoofer as well.

Sorry, but it irks me a little every time someone says "if they didn't have so many cars to do, they'd do all of them justice."

No - I don't think so, they would still take shortcuts if there were 200 cars or so because they now have bragging rights to 30fps/4k/hdr on xbox. Great graphics and a huge car list sells racing games upfront - but car sound issues also causes many problems down the line, which is something they've been turning a blind eye to since FH3.

I believe they can do it - they have funding from MS after all and are a first-party developer. Will they do it is something I do not know - not everyone cares about car sounds the way we do on these forums. Many don't even bother checking YT vids for comparison because to them, the sounds are "what they expect' in a racing game.
This is a shame because the game has great visuals and reasonably good physics. The half-hearted car sounds is what makes me put it down every time and I actually go back to the older games which actually bring a lot more immersion and replay value because of the sounds. But that's just me.

I really hope that manufactures start to ensure that the sounds are exactly what you would get in real life, stock-for-stock. And if they're unwilling to, then they can pull the licence agreement to feature their cars and brand as a whole. I would no doubt that it will ensure that car sounds are faithful to the real-life version they allow to be depicted.

I'm not doubting their ability to record or the difficulty of doing so - they can do it. They have the equipment and necessary skills. However, their approach and fundamentals that gives us the results we're getting, is why I'm dismissive of what they're saying (or defending), because the results speak for themselves. If the recordings that come direct from the manufacturer are more accurate to the real-life version they depict (I'll use the Mercedes-AMG GT 63 S 4-door Coupé clips direct from Mercedes-Benz. I prefer the GommeBlog, the low-end is super lively), then yes, fundamental approaches ideals need to change. Whether you like the sound of a stock car or not that you're trying to represent in-game, use it. Because that's what you'll get in real life. There are some cars with their stock exhausts which I don't like the notes they produce, but that's what they actually sound like.

The Audi R8, I will agree with you. It is not just a golden sample, it is the golden sample. The sound itself, imaging, and all those fancy things, are directly representing the actual car itself. Good recordings you can find on YouTube will prove it! I actually love the sound of the R8.
Why are real-life factory car engine sounds better than in-game car engine sounds?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1087 Posted : Monday, May 20, 2019 12:09:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post

He starts off talking about finding the right cars which is the main thing about getting the desired sound.


Well, they failed there by using a first gen Viper for 1999 and newer Vipers, and also using a R33 GTS-T for GT-R Vspec Skylines. Those 2 are definitely not the right cars.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1088 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:06:36 AM(UTC)
Induction/engine/exhaust sounds are downgraded in comparison to previous titles. Many cars sound exactly the same or totally wrong.
This 'that will do' attitude indicates that the sounds devs aren't passionate about cars at all in my opinion.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1089 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:28:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post
They showed you the viper and the skyline they recorded which are the two most complained about cars in the game.


Which are both quite wrong. First gen Viper does not sound at all like anything in game. 1999 and newer Vipers sound considerably different ( They should have a tone closer to the Gallardo / Huracan or the 5.2L V10 in game. ). They also used a R33 GTS-T for the GT-R. That is also wrong. The GT-R is much more aggressive. The R34 sound that is currently in game isn't too far off, but it's lacking the low end weight and proper stereo imaging. It's also pitched weirdly at the top end of the tach.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1090 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 5:33:21 AM(UTC)
What's with the shifters being so loud? Paddle shifters, floor shifters, all shifters have either this really loud annoying click, or bang. That's terrible.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#1091 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:39:36 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: LordReindeer0 Go to Quoted Post
Induction/engine/exhaust sounds are downgraded in comparison to previous titles. Many cars sound exactly the same or totally wrong.
This 'that will do' attitude indicates that the sounds devs aren't passionate about cars at all in my opinion.


I agree 100% - the passion probably started to wither by the end of FM6/FH3. Car sounds are top notch in both those games.

They're focusing way too much on 4K and using it to milk the product. Quite a mess they have on their hands now it appears.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#1092 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:27:30 AM(UTC)
After the video detailing about recording sounds I really believe they have no idea how badly they’ve messed up most of the sounds.

A Maserati Granturismo has the sound of a flatplane V8 in FH4. That says it all.

Either step your game up or sack the sound engineers, we’re fed up of excuses as to why the sounds aren’t correct.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1093 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 2:06:05 PM(UTC)
We do not let up until every single car feels as good as the R8 V10 Plus.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1094 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 7:32:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iTZz x Karma Go to Quoted Post
After the video detailing about recording sounds I really believe they have no idea how badly they’ve messed up most of the sounds.

A Maserati Granturismo has the sound of a flatplane V8 in FH4. That says it all.

Either step your game up or sack the sound engineers, we’re fed up of excuses as to why the sounds aren’t correct.



It would greatly help if there was someone here who could see what they were getting at in the stream, and then critique the information that they gave us. My ears aren’t trained, that wasn’t something they put in the program until graduation. Having a set of trained ears and expertise on how the sound design and recording processes can be improved is the only way they’ll listen. They’re not going to pay attention if the feedback is “this sounds bad”. I can understand the Maserati, and the P1 (I’ll even throw in the regular MC12, but post 27); BUT until someone can see eye to eye with the sound guy, and critique his work from there, we’re not going to get anywhere. They’re looking for information other than “this doesn’t sound bassy enough”, “Check other games”. How exactly can they detail the bass without masking other frequencies and sounds in the mix? Can you hear the granular synthesis? Is there anything that can be improved upon with the new granular synthesis sound design? I’ve got “wrong cars recorded” on my list.

The stream and post 27 explains what’s going on. Some cars don’t sound right and they’re aware of it. They have to update their sound library with the new granular synthesis method they’re using. FM7’s update should make its way here, just like the 599xx evo made it’s way.

I hear good things there that weren’t there in previous forza’s. They’re not slacking, they just rushed a good idea with THREE titles (FH3,FM7,and H4). They needed more than a year. They were trying to satisfy a us with a new title each year which backfired in Horizon 3. That’s all I have to say. It’s a new concept, it sounds good, it’s just not finished, post 27 talks about it. The stream goes into depth about post 27. If we could get detailed feedback on how the mixes are sculpted exactly and what they could do differently then they’ll change. Until then complain about there being a “lack of low end” until your ears bleed, the low end is there. Knowing exactly what they did and how they should change it is the only way that’s going to get the sound guys to listen.

Edited by user Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:17:40 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1095 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 9:47:56 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MikeJoe1990 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: iTZz x Karma Go to Quoted Post
After the video detailing about recording sounds I really believe they have no idea how badly they’ve messed up most of the sounds.

A Maserati Granturismo has the sound of a flatplane V8 in FH4. That says it all.

Either step your game up or sack the sound engineers, we’re fed up of excuses as to why the sounds aren’t correct.



It would greatly help if there was someone here who could see what they were getting at in the stream, and then critique the information that they gave us. My ears aren’t trained, that wasn’t something they put in the program until graduation. Having a set of trained ears and expertise on how the sound design and recording processes can be improved is the only way they’ll listen. They’re not going to pay attention if the feedback is “this sounds bad”. I can understand the Maserati, and the P1 (I’ll even throw in the regular MC12, but post 27); BUT until someone can see eye to eye with the sound guy, and critique his work from there, we’re not going to get anywhere. They’re looking for information other than “this doesn’t sound bassy enough”, “Check other games”. How exactly can they detail the bass without masking other frequencies and sounds in the mix? Can you hear the granular synthesis? Is there anything that can be improved upon with the new granular synthesis sound design? I’ve got “wrong cars recorded” on my list.

The stream and post 27 explains what’s going on. Some cars don’t sound right and they’re aware of it. They have to update their sound library with the new granular synthesis method they’re using. FM7’s update should make its way here, just like the 599xx evo made it’s way.

I hear good things there that weren’t there in previous forza’s. They’re not slacking, they just rushed a good idea with THREE titles (FH3,FM7,and H4). They needed more than a year. They were trying to satisfy a us with a new title each year which backfired in Horizon 3. That’s all I have to say. It’s a new concept, it sounds good, it’s just not finished, post 27 talks about it. The stream goes into depth about post 27. If we could get detailed feedback on how the mixes are sculpted exactly and what they could do differently then they’ll change. Until then complain about there being a “lack of low end” until your ears bleed, the low end is there. Knowing exactly they did and how they should change it is the only way you’re going to get the sound guys to listen.


What do you think I've been doing? Everything you're saying about how I'm critiquing the sound is wrong. I have repeatedly said that the sounds not being full range and also not having the right amt of natural width is the problem. Also volume. The engine sounds playing 2nd fiddle to the music is a bad choice. If I can't comfortably turn this game up to 80dB and not have my ears bleed the upper mids and high end is too much. On that note having to turn my volume up to 80dB just to get my subs barely moving is also a problem. The game feels like it's been engineered just like an EDM record which the majority of the music community feels are engineered poorly. They're full of mids, upper mids and high end yet have almost no low end harmonics at all. I have very well tuned ears, I've been training them for the last decade. You want us to do their job for them? It isn't hard to grab a good video of a Skyline GT-R and match it, or go to a car show and listen to one. Record it there. Just for reference. I'm about to prove it once I have igniter. I don't understand how you, of all these others, don't see much issue with how this thing is engineered. There are some very good examples of well done engineering and sound design so we know they're capable ( as I've also said repeatedly). We just want the rest fixed so that they're in line with the golden examples. How hard is that to understand?

You said something about proximity effect. How is that an issue inside the car where it doesn't get extremely loud ( in most cases ), and it should be very easy to capture a full range natural width spectrum of audio. I understand how this MIGHT be an issue outside the car, but the solution here is not to remove everything under 300hz. Whoever thought that was a good idea is definitely cutting corners. I'm of the mind that the studio doesn't have the best gear, and it's also not tuned very well. Prove me wrong. All my gear in my well tuned studio tell me this with a very loud voice. So loud that I can't deal with this game turned up much past 80dB. 85dB is the recommended level for mixing movies. I'm of the mind that games should also fall into this category. You are aware of industry practices are you not? Granted this changes based on room size, but it doesn't get much lower. Every single sound system I've played this on tells me the exact same thing the majority of the time. Engine volume too low, mostly coming out of the center channel, and every frequency above 2 - 300hz way too high, almost no sub movement. I've already shown that if the center channel is brought down a good 12 - 18dB on cars that feel too narrow that is a great improvement. Don't imagine that'd be too hard to do on the current material.

So if they're trying to fix it, why wasn't that said in the stream? Why did they make us feel like we're wrong, and they're right? Why did it feel like they were doing nothing but complaining about how hard it is? I took nothing else from that. I sincerely hope they prove me wrong and fix everything, I just don't have faith that they will at this point. This will change when I hear that the Skylines and Vipers get updated. Also the Dodge Hellcats and Demon. The sound isn't necessarily wrong, but it is definitely lacking everything under say 300hz. Increase the dynamic range, widen the image, and stop removing everything under 300hz. Also stop making the shifters so loud inside the car. Drop them a good 6db. Especially paddle shifters. Those make almost no sound. I know, I've used them. I drive a manual trans car, and my shifter makes nowhere near the amt of noise I hear these making. I also don't feel like any of the cars are as aggressive as they are in RL. Everything just feels a lil lazy.

I don't feel like we should have to do their research for them. I don't feel like we should have to do anything other than report what we hear on our sound systems. That's it. That's how I work. That's how most other engineers that I know personally work. We don't want our clients to tell us exactly how to fix their projects. If they can do that then they don't need an engineer.

I have already acknowledged that this game sounds better than 3. That's a fact. That doesn't mean it's right tho. Anyone with a set of ears and a decent sound system can hear that. Some of the sounds used aren't exactly correct for the cars they're attached to tho. That's the problem the majority of the community has with it. Are they not using reference material? I can find a reference video on Youtube for just about every car in this game. That's what I'd have open while working. Reference. They shouldn't be creating sounds for these cars, they should be matching them to the real thing as closely as possible. For that you need a reference. An audio recording or video of the car you're working on. If the game output doesn't match, it's wrong. Simple. Easy peasy.

T10 did a wonderful job with their recent FM7 updates. PG should follow suit, or get the FM7 material into FH4 and we should be informed of these things. A simple 'we're working on fixing these' would have sufficed. Instead we got 'here's what we did so we know they're correct' and the rest of the team just bigged him up.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1096 Posted : Tuesday, May 21, 2019 10:18:06 PM(UTC)
This game is entirely too bright and harsh on my studio speakers (PMC two two 8, Presonus Sceptre S8, Mackie HR824 MK1, Adam A5X) at immersive volume levels (roundabouts 60 - 70dB). Every other game feels great and isn't too bright. Not one other title is nearly as bright as this or FM7. Not that hard to grasp or understand.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1097 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 12:50:53 AM(UTC)
I would honestly recommend that they revise their strategy and release only ONE Forza game every three years - and make sure it is completely free of bugs, glitches and severe shortcomings in the car audio department. In the meantime they can always release DLC and improvements to keep it fresh until the next game hits.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#1098 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:07:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: iTZz x Karma Go to Quoted Post
After the video detailing about recording sounds I really believe they have no idea how badly they’ve messed up most of the sounds.

A Maserati Granturismo has the sound of a flatplane V8 in FH4. That says it all.

Either step your game up or sack the sound engineers, we’re fed up of excuses as to why the sounds aren’t correct.


It sounds nothing like a 4.7 -liter V8, i think its even a 6 cylinder sound-file.
Shows the lack of accurateness, dedication and care.
Uninspiring.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1099 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 1:09:39 AM(UTC)
Completely uninspiring and inaccurate to say the least. And they're justifying their "hard work" in the stream. Honestly, they should do the smart thing and revert back to FH2/3 sounds, and then make improvements to those samples after conducting thorough research.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1100 Posted : Wednesday, May 22, 2019 6:21:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: opencamswrx Go to Quoted Post
Completely uninspiring and inaccurate to say the least. And they're justifying their "hard work" in the stream. Honestly, they should do the smart thing and revert back to FH2/3 sounds, and then make improvements to those samples after conducting thorough research.


Nah, definitely don't revert. Those sounds are indeed worse. New material is needed for a lot, but not all. The focus needs to be in the engineering area. Full range EQ curve ( none of this cutting 300hz 'n down garbage ), and make sure all views have a nice natural feeling stereo width ( way too much mono ), and turn the volume of the cars up. That's it.
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