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Rank: Driver's Permit
#1001 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2019 2:32:35 PM(UTC)
Yeah Please, listen to that Men, I also think that almost all engine sounds probably need to be reworked as well.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1002 Posted : Friday, May 3, 2019 7:35:11 PM(UTC)
yah I'll do some more work on it this weekend 'n post up some links.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#1003 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 8:34:17 AM(UTC)
Here's the AM Vanquish V12 comparison. Original is first then my fix. I didn't do much, jus tinkered with the imaging a lil bit. My settings changed some but not much. AM V12 Sound comparison -- Me vs PG/T10.

Here's my plugin settings.

Stereo Imaging fix

And everything is outta the red.

Meter readings

If I spend more time on this I could get it much closer to RL, but I just don't have that time this weekend. Perhaps I'll upload more in the future should they continue to take their sweet time fixing these things.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1004 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 8:54:59 AM(UTC)
Here's another cos it's been bothering me so much. The Ferrari 812 Superfast. Easily one of the worst sounding cars in the game. Again theirs is first, and mine second. I realize these aren't the cleanest, but I can only do so much with them.

Ferrari 812 Superfast - Me vs PG/T10.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#1005 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 9:33:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
yah I'll do some more work on it this weekend 'n post up some links.

This is a good idea but the problem will be that you can not edit the finished sounds great because the sounds are already compressed. You try to make missing frequencies louder, but where there is no sound information, nothing can be made louder. So you have to artificially compute the missing information. Imagine you try to edit a music file which includes 196kbit / s and therefore resolves only up to about 14000Hz to optimize to a resolution of 20000hz. The problem is, you try to optimize something that does not exist. And like pictures where you can artificially add pixels, it doesn't work for the sound. That's why the developers have to work on their synthesizer or mastering program themselves. another alternative would be "Igniter" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3beG832loc8&t=30s), with which one can simulate or model very complex auto sounds. Incidentally, I would also recommend that to the developers of Forza. Of course, you can also record all the cars and then digitize them, then you just have to bring all the noise levels to a level.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1006 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 10:12:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BigSmooth747 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: teksenic Go to Quoted Post
yah I'll do some more work on it this weekend 'n post up some links.

This is a good idea but the problem will be that you can not edit the finished sounds great because the sounds are already compressed. You try to make missing frequencies louder, but where there is no sound information, nothing can be made louder. So you have to artificially compute the missing information. Imagine you try to edit a music file which includes 196kbit / s and therefore resolves only up to about 14000Hz to optimize to a resolution of 20000hz. The problem is, you try to optimize something that does not exist. And like pictures where you can artificially add pixels, it doesn't work for the sound. That's why the developers have to work on their synthesizer or mastering program themselves. another alternative would be "Igniter" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3beG832loc8&t=30s), with which one can simulate or model very complex auto sounds. Incidentally, I would also recommend that to the developers of Forza. Of course, you can also record all the cars and then digitize them, then you just have to bring all the noise levels to a level.


Very well aware of this. I wasn't doing this to provide any usable material. Just examples of what needed to be done in order to fix it as it stands. The imaging is way off and the EQ curve is far from ideal.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1007 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 10:16:21 AM(UTC)
I should note that those edits are done to the cockpit view audio. Chase camera hasn't been touched.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#1008 Posted : Saturday, May 4, 2019 1:49:27 PM(UTC)
Yes, I know that it was not your intention to develop a new game, just to illustrate that the sound is not ideal. :) And you did that well, but I think it's not enough just to do something on the Game Eq. They have to do a little more. It is, therefore, better to work on the sound when it was in the development process and make some fundamental changes to bass management. I mean look at 1: 31min https://www.youtube.com/...?v=3beG832loc8&t=30s , that's ideal or? xD
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1009 Posted : Monday, May 6, 2019 10:55:17 PM(UTC)
So it appears they have a bit of a mess on their hands.

I can't understand why they won't just release a relatively small number of cars at product launch - get them ALL right in terms of distinct audio characteristics because the tech to do this is already here - and then start adding the rest of the cars over weeks and months or whatever schedule is ideal.

Forza doesn't have to compete with any other racing game - Forza only needs to improve and fine-tune itself. That's it. One of its key strengths was car sounds as I've observed in the older games. Now that is slowly fading away.
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#1010 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 9:06:22 AM(UTC)
Oh my.. They are going to talk about audio in today's stream. Let's hope!
Rank: Racing Permit
#1011 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 9:59:39 AM(UTC)
smh, they record the viper that wasn't in the game and thought all vipers sound the same. To be honest, if it was that difficult to record how do they do it right in the previous game.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#1012 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 10:02:42 AM(UTC)
Yeah, I noticed that as well. They used a first-gen R/T, which had a different engine and seemed to apply it to the newest Viper.

Now I'm wondering why we still don't have a first-gen R/T Viper in the game.
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Rank: Driver's License
#1013 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 10:11:47 AM(UTC)
Am I wrong or does the new Apollo sound like LaFerrari? I hope I'm wrong...
Rank: Racing Permit
#1014 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 10:27:20 AM(UTC)
There's one more thing but I don't know if this sounds right. They have the recorder right beside the exhaust so it was like the original sound come from the exhaust, but many of us drive in chase camera and that was like half a meter away from many of the car and some even got side exhaust, which the sound may change through the air (I guess? I don't know if this is true, I just say what I've been told) to what we thought it should be sounded IRL. It makes me confused and wonders if it was the same method they use in FH2 and 3, if so, why there is a huge difference? It's not like new technology will make things more detailed but comes out way different than before.

Edit: Forget about it, after watching those vids on youtube where they put the GoPro near the exhaust, I realize some cars just got wrong sounds after all like the viper

Edited by user Tuesday, May 7, 2019 10:46:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#1015 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 10:35:56 AM(UTC)
Will the sound inside of the cabin also change if you upgrade from v6 to v12? LOL, no wonder comments were disabled for this stream...
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#1016 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 11:39:54 AM(UTC)
I was hoping to hear something else from audio team - waste of time...
I just want this game to be perfect nothing else, and racing game cant be perfect with sounds like this. Its beyond me how in the stream they say that they are aware that every car has its own sound, yet, we have many cars in FH4 that share same sound - even if they have different engines. And I would really like to see comparison video of them recording Maserati GT sound with in-game sound.

PS: nice try with that viper sound...
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1017 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 11:59:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Clonedemned Go to Quoted Post
I was hoping to hear something else from audio team - waste of time...
I just want this game to be perfect nothing else, and racing game cant be perfect with sounds like this. Its beyond me how in the stream they say that they are aware that every car has its own sound, yet, we have many cars in FH4 that share same sound - even if they have different engines. And I would really like to see comparison video of them recording Maserati GT sound with in-game sound.

PS: nice try with that viper sound...


F'real. I don't want to see how they do it, I want to see that they're fixing their flawed system. Most car audio sounds awful on a surround setup. Idk why they can't hear this and fix it. :/
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#1018 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 12:06:09 PM(UTC)
Dissapointing livestream, yet again Playground Games haven’t addressed the issue of wrong car sounds being used.

If Assetto Corsa could get the sounds right why can’t a company funded by Microsoft do so?

I’m getting fed up of the community not being heard.

Seriously. This is embaressing for a car game of this day and age
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#1019 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 1:54:15 PM(UTC)
Update is out. Zonda Cinque still sounds sh*t. This is pathetic.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#1020 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 2:02:50 PM(UTC)
Audio portion was very interesting as it was frustrating. I am a die-hard Forza fan and I enjoy these behind the scenes segments, however elephant in the room for the last month has been "How about applying the new audio upgrades from Motorsport to Horizon?" For a franchise whose strength is the exchange of content between games, the fact it wasn't addressed (unless it was when my feed was glitching) is just baffling.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#1021 Posted : Tuesday, May 7, 2019 2:06:54 PM(UTC)
They showed a video of how the recorded the sounds in the live update show...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ury3Wmg9PA
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#1022 Posted : Wednesday, May 8, 2019 2:39:20 AM(UTC)
What's still bugs me is that there are cars that sound completely different when it was other people or AI driving it (like the Viper ACR). The sounds were like imported from FH3 which is great IMO but when you drive it, god it's awful. Can't them just ask T10 for help on recording some of those cars if they were hardly found in the UK
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#1023 Posted : Wednesday, May 8, 2019 7:57:51 AM(UTC)
I wouldn't be mad if all they did was fix the engineering on the current sounds at this point. Bring them all in line with how well the R8 is engineered. Pretty sure we're not going to get totally new sounds given the amt of topic dodging and excuses we're getting. Just fix the imaging and EQ curve. The Viper is actually engineered pretty well, it just doesn't sound like many Vipers I've ever heard. All the Vipers in FM7 are accurate tho so you're right about getting T10 to send PG their sound for that. They don't even have to do that tho. Jus take the sound from the FD Viper and apply it to the rest. Easy fix.

I'm not sure where they got the source for the Hoonitruck, but it's still wrong. Jus 'bout to give up at this point. Uninstall. Forget about Horizon altogether. FM7 has improved enough that I'm not going to totally leave Forza, but Horizon has just about run its course with me. It's very clear that they think we're all morons who don't have a clue about audio and they're totally correct with their implementation. I've never been behind a car that has mono exhaust. Definitely never been in a car that sounds mono either. And I'm 100% sure that nearly every vehicle I've ridden in has a nice low end rumble while idling. For them to do nothing but show us their recording process, making excuses, and essentially avoid the problem is just disgustingly unprofessional. Anyone with a decent set of ears on their head can clearly tell that most the engine sound engineering is way off. It only comes out of the center channel speaker with like 95% of the cars. That's just ridiculous.
Rank: Racing Permit
#1024 Posted : Thursday, May 9, 2019 3:40:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Stang616 Go to Quoted Post
Yeah, I noticed that as well. They used a first-gen R/T, which had a different engine and seemed to apply it to the newest Viper.

Now I'm wondering why we still don't have a first-gen R/T Viper in the game.

Its a series 2 first gen viper. So its roughly the same as the 99 ACR in terms of engine specs. But the fact that they carried over the audio to all Vipers is HIGHLY suspect. Hell, the viper they showed us sounds AWFULLY muffled which might mean it has a completely unmodified exhaust (which is debatable because even stock exhaust on a First gen viper sounds wildly different. At least the US spec). Then they showcased the ingame clip and it sounded so poorly mixed/replicated. Turn10 I presume before Forza 7, sought out straight piped or modified exhaust systems.
Their body language when talking about the audio as well was kinda telling as well.
Unmodified
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YkMCVXW6Kg
Modifed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAOWMg_Mjgo
Sounds off even with their capture car.
Here is an 08 for reference
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yko25cRB20

Its almost like they got a handful of cars to record and altered the tone and stuffed them into the rest of the list.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#1025 Posted : Thursday, May 9, 2019 6:49:45 AM(UTC)
I've found through my research ( watching a buncha supercar spotter vids on youtube ) that their source material isn't that far off. The major issue is how it's mixed / engineered. There is a ton of copy pasta going on, but I'm not as mad at that as I am the big engineering issue. So many just sound flat and mono cos they've been mixed to only the center channel. I feel like a broken record. Idk how many times I have to repeat this before it's taken seriously. The sound guy that was on the stream seemed to think they were in the right and that we are wrong. I get it bud, you're the sound guy for the game. You think you're better than most. Well, I'm here to tell you that you're doing your job wrong cos I am also an Engineer and you would be wise to take advice from others in the field. I'm not the only one in our field that has noticed these issues either. Several of my colleagues agree that this is a poorly engineered product. I just don't understand why we're not being taken seriously. Clearly enough of the community is up in arms over this issue so perhaps something should be done about it. FM7 fixed theirs so why can't you fix yours?

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