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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2018 8:11:22 AM(UTC)
I'm worried that Horizon is getting too arcadey. I know the game is supposed to be fun and accessible but the amount of grip that almost every car has is too much. The difference between off-roading and tarmac isn't distinguished enough. Certain hypercars can off-road better than Pick ups. The grip in the gravel and dirt is really high. Snow and ice didn't have much of an effect either.

I don't mind the physics being arcadey, I just want different surfaces to be more distinguished if that makes sense.
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#2 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2018 8:52:23 AM(UTC)
Although it might have been hype, I saw someone being interviewed at E3 saying that the difference in road surfaces was very noticeable. Especially going from the snow to ice.

Edited by user Monday, June 18, 2018 8:52:56 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#3 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2018 8:58:29 AM(UTC)
E3 demos have full assists on by default, which is very likely to be the cause.
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#4 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2018 9:16:07 AM(UTC)
I’m fine with the ground differentiation the way it is. The desert trails were one of my favourites in FH3, the snow was really fun too. I think the games are too open world to have driving off road slow you down too much.

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#5 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2018 9:29:41 AM(UTC)
I myself dislike the excess of grip on Horizon series and being able to drive hypercars on sand or snow feels terrible to me, but I think both tastes can be easily satisfied if they add a "realistic" mode switch on the game settings menu, and I really hope this time they add it.
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#6 Posted : Monday, June 18, 2018 9:36:12 AM(UTC)
I'm not. FH3's were good. Super-realistic maybe not, but for the most part cars do what they are meant to do as long as you go with stock tires and keep stock suspension.

I don't worry about physics as long as it's fun, tries to simulate real car behaviour and wheels are fully functional, including clutch and H-Shifter.
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#7 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:39:52 PM(UTC)
There must be some sort of difference in FH 3 as I have considerably closer races in the off road circuits, same with blizzard mountain snow/ice circuits. I know they are less forgiving.

Edited by user Tuesday, June 19, 2018 12:40:38 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:09:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CRracer 912 Go to Quoted Post
There must be some sort of difference in FH 3 as I have considerably closer races in the off road circuits, same with blizzard mountain snow/ice circuits. I know they are less forgiving.

is that with AI or players?

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#9 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:17:05 PM(UTC)
I find it's easier to drift off-road. And ice is a slip and slide to the point where I had to pay attention to the black ice warnings in Blizzard Mountain to avoid slide offs. I can see myself largely avoiding FH4 for the 1/4 weeks it's winter.
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#10 Posted : Tuesday, June 19, 2018 8:18:33 PM(UTC)
Game looks fine
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#11 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2018 8:03:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I'm worried that Horizon is getting too arcadey. I know the game is supposed to be fun and accessible but the amount of grip that almost every car has is too much. The difference between off-roading and tarmac isn't distinguished enough. Certain hypercars can off-road better than Pick ups. The grip in the gravel and dirt is really high. Snow and ice didn't have much of an effect either.

I don't mind the physics being arcadey, I just want different surfaces to be more distinguished if that makes sense.


With each FM7 game the physics get closer to driving a real world car, so IMO the same should be true of this game, where instead of making the game more fun, make it more realistic, but fun at the same time.

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#12 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2018 9:03:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
the amount of grip that almost every car has is too much.


Wut? FH3 was very slippery compared to Motorsport which is tuned for more realism. That is the main thing was wrong with FH3 in my opinion, Not enough grip making AWD swaps far too overpowered. So I hope FH4 is a bit grippier.
To be a bit more clear it is mostly the forward grip that is too low in FH3. Cornering grip was fine, it was just too easy to get wheelspin making RWD cars uncompetitive against AWD cars in higher classes.
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#13 Posted : Wednesday, June 20, 2018 12:12:02 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I'm worried that Horizon is getting too arcadey. I know the game is supposed to be fun and accessible but the amount of grip that almost every car has is too much. The difference between off-roading and tarmac isn't distinguished enough. Certain hypercars can off-road better than Pick ups. The grip in the gravel and dirt is really high. Snow and ice didn't have much of an effect either.

I don't mind the physics being arcadey, I just want different surfaces to be more distinguished if that makes sense.



I'm going to disagree 110% on "the amount of grip that almost every car has is too much." . Cars like the: Mustang GT350 430 Scuderia, AMG GTR, M4 GTS, 570S and 650S, feel like they have about zero connection to the road, even when on sport tires. Their respective performance on stock tires, isn't even worth mentioning, since they somehow have even less grip than sport tires. They're all but useless in S1 class with not enough grip, and equally as useless in S2, since their top speeds, even with engine upgrades, aren't high enough to be competitive in that class.
What's always confused me, is, the actual design for the sport tire looks more akin to a Yokohama AD08 or a Dunlop Direzza ZII, (which both are DOT legal race tires), yet the sport tire has little to no connection to the surface underneath it, even though it visually looks like a road legal race tire. Hopefully in FH4, the physics/handling of the tires, will be reworked to behave more realistically, like what you'd find in FM7.
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#14 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 1:21:43 PM(UTC)
I wouldn’t say horizon has arcade handling, sure it’s less serious than Motorsport, but it’s not NFS or anything like that. For instance, racing tires off-road are way slower than stock tires or off-road tires. I love the physics of the horizon franchise, it is easier and more forgivable than Motorsport but still a solid handling system
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#15 Posted : Thursday, June 21, 2018 11:28:09 PM(UTC)
Hmmm, I kinda disagree!

Where the Horizon series really lacks IMO, is in feedback. The triggers don't have nearly as much feedback as in the Motorsport series, resulting in cars that only warn you about grip loss when it's too late.

Considering that in Horizon all the tires are made drifty on purpose, this can be frustrating if you drive an RWD car.

When it comes to actual physics however, it's basically Forza Motorsport dumbed down. From what I've seen of games like The Crew 2 and NFS Payback, it's still not as arcadey. I remember there being a clear difference between tarmac, dirt, snow and ice in FH3.
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#16 Posted : Saturday, June 23, 2018 12:24:56 PM(UTC)
When I say grip, to clarify, I don't mean traction. I mean grip going round the corner. Take the Centenario for example. With upgrades that thing takes corners like an F1 car.
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#17 Posted : Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:53:47 PM(UTC)
Hate to break it to you man but this ship has sailed. The Horizon series has been trending in the arcade like direction ever slowly since the first release. One of the gameplay videos I saw with cars jumping hundreds of feet into the air back onto the asphalt looked a lot like a Burnout game.

-k
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#18 Posted : Saturday, June 23, 2018 6:21:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
When I say grip, to clarify, I don't mean traction. I mean grip going round the corner. Take the Centenario for example. With upgrades that thing takes corners like an F1 car.


If the answer to "what happens when you don't have enough grip going round a corner" basically amounts to "you lose traction" then that hair you were trying to split remains whole and full of body.
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#19 Posted : Saturday, June 23, 2018 7:25:56 PM(UTC)
I do wish that the physics were a bit more unforgiving like Motorsport, that would the ideal game to me. But I thank our lord and savior Playground Games for not having NFS physics in a Horizon game. I can't play games like the Crew and NFS because the physics make me cringe. Not trying to sound elitist—to each their own—just not my cup of tea anymore. I think we're at an okay place with Horizon. A good race tune is very noticeably better than a stock-tune upgraded car; similarly a good drift tune is very noticeably better than a stock-tune upgraded car. That's all that matters.
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#20 Posted : Wednesday, July 4, 2018 9:38:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I don't mind the physics being arcadey, I just want different surfaces to be more distinguished if that makes sense.


"We have a much more progressive damping model, jacking forces... With this trophy truck you'll notice when people are driving this really hard and making a hard right turn, the left inside wheel is going to lift up - that's what happens with real trophy trucks. It didn't happen with the last game; it's happening now because of this entirely new suspension geometry that has been put into place. It still feels like Horizon, but the cars are actually more connected to the road than they were before, and there's much more difference between an off-road vehicle and a road vehicle. And much more reason to pick one versus the other."
- Jon Knoles during the #ForzaMonthly livestream on July 2
https://youtu.be/1sI0sTDOJtc?t=1805

Edited by user Wednesday, July 4, 2018 11:15:34 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#21 Posted : Wednesday, July 4, 2018 10:54:18 PM(UTC)
If you're making a hard right turn, unless you did it by spinning around neither left tire is on the inside.
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#22 Posted : Wednesday, July 4, 2018 11:14:49 PM(UTC)
The truck was turning left, and I think it's safe to say he misspoke.
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#23 Posted : Thursday, July 5, 2018 8:51:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
I don't mind the physics being arcadey, I just want different surfaces to be more distinguished if that makes sense.


"We have a much more progressive damping model, jacking forces... With this trophy truck you'll notice when people are driving this really hard and making a hard right turn, the left inside wheel is going to lift up - that's what happens with real trophy trucks. It didn't happen with the last game; it's happening now because of this entirely new suspension geometry that has been put into place. It still feels like Horizon, but the cars are actually more connected to the road than they were before, and there's much more difference between an off-road vehicle and a road vehicle. And much more reason to pick one versus the other."
- Jon Knoles during the #ForzaMonthly livestream on July 2
https://youtu.be/1sI0sTDOJtc?t=1805

Thanks for the information Max! Appreciate it massively. Sounds quite promising in all truth. It sounds almost realistically arcadey if that makes sense? Looking forward too it and hopefully the FFB on
wheels makes it more enjoyable if they say it feels more connected to the road. Hopefully it keeps the Horizon feel but improves the communication and believability between car and player.

I also heard that the tire compounds were doubled and the PI adjusted. Those were another two big complaints about FH3. I think my worries are starting to fade aha!
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#24 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 10:50:02 AM(UTC)
I have proper reference how sports cars should have handle on grass: https://www.instagram.com/p/Bk-0BX-hHLr/ You know what I mean, and we all know the problem that series has, with driving offroad. TDU nailed it.
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#25 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 2:58:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Shanic Oatmeme Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
the amount of grip that almost every car has is too much.


Wut? FH3 was very slippery compared to Motorsport which is tuned for more realism. That is the main thing was wrong with FH3 in my opinion, Not enough grip making AWD swaps far too overpowered. So I hope FH4 is a bit grippier.
To be a bit more clear it is mostly the forward grip that is too low in FH3. Cornering grip was fine, it was just too easy to get wheelspin making RWD cars uncompetitive against AWD cars in higher classes.


thats true. rwd cars are much better on motorsport than in horizon. i hope they changed it a littlebit. or we will see only awd in online drag races and normal races like in fh3 :/
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