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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#101 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2018 6:24:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Camdoo7 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HIR07A Go to Quoted Post

FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations 2018 state (and they have been like this for a while) the white line at the edge of the track (before the kerb) denotes the extent of the track, and at least one part of the car must be inside it. The kerb is not part of the track.



Fair enough then, I stand corrected, but that's not what the rules said at the time of the Verstappen incident in Austin last year, when he was judged to have abused track limits by about an inch even though all 4 wheels weren't even on the kerb, let alone an inch away from the black stuff.


The rules haven't changed in regards to track limits in F1 for years (the exact same wording appears in the 2013 sporting regs for instance). Verstappen was miles off the track (all 4 wheels outside the white lines by a lot more than "an inch" and gained an advantage in being so, most of the time track indiscretions are overlooked unless it is repeated (and they have particular corners at particular tracks that receive attention each year) or the driver gains a distinct advantage from it (time in qualifying, or position in a race).
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#102 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2018 8:40:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ScoobsMcGee82 Go to Quoted Post
I also see the word "penalty" in the top left corner, which could prove interesting. I don't race online more than to complete a weekly league race, so it doesn't make much difference for me, but I believe that is something people have been asking for to address the rammers for quite some time. Glad to see it.


Fyi you don't actually have to do a league race to get the credit, just sign into leagues then back out


As for the OP it's about friggin time! Let's hope they get it right or are at least are using it as a test bed to make sure FM 8 is done right
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#103 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2018 10:02:03 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post

Will stop people who post stupidly fast times on tracks, Only to find out when you watch there lap in replay they have cut chunks of the actual track. Are they fast drivers or just dirty drivers with clean lap times. This will level the playing field and actually produce clean driving with out the excuse for cutting that some are claiming if it says clean it is clean even though I went off road several times in my hot lap.
The current Bounty Hunt is a classic exzample of what some are claiming clean driving just because you have a clean lap dose not make it clean or in the interest of competive motor racing cheating is cheating and cutting weather clean or dirty is cheating in my books. I am looking foward to the new track limit system.


Originally Posted by: Sith Metal 1971 Go to Quoted Post
we may see who really is the quickest, with more realistic times .

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, the same people will be at the top of the boards and you will still be where you place. And such is the circle of forza.


No not bad news to me I average in the top 10% on certin tracks and about 25% on others and on watching replays wondering why im so far behind on certin tracks I normaly find that the reason is the fasters players not actuall staying on the actual track but using the less than steller forza limits.

I know im not the fastest and never will be but with improved track limits it will narrow the difference between those who do there best to use the real track limits to thoes who ignore them and use forza limits and they are not the same thing one keep a driver on the actual track for 100% of the lap while the other puts the driver on and off the actual track.
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#104 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2018 11:20:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IXx Morbid xXI Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: smoothroller Go to Quoted Post
I’m sorry; am I missing something, here? How would SP be negatively affected?


Would definitely affect the people who want to cut the track and ram the AI out of the way to get their wins in the career.


You mean horizon players 😉
Rank: Racing Permit
#105 Posted : Friday, May 18, 2018 11:32:19 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HIR07A Go to Quoted Post

The rules haven't changed in regards to track limits in F1 for years (the exact same wording appears in the 2013 sporting regs for instance). Verstappen was miles off the track (all 4 wheels outside the white lines by a lot more than "an inch" and gained an advantage in being so, most of the time track indiscretions are overlooked unless it is repeated (and they have particular corners at particular tracks that receive attention each year) or the driver gains a distinct advantage from it (time in qualifying, or position in a race).


In that case we'll have to agree to disagree, every single person I saw talk about the Verstappen penalty got hung up on trying to show that he had all 4 wheels off the kerb and how it was that that made him in the wrong. Not sure they'd have faffed about so much trying to put the replay in slow motion and stop it and talk about him having 4 wheels off the kerb if that wasn't the issue because, if things are as you say, it's completely bloody obvious to anyone with eyes that he cut the corner.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#106 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 4:07:37 AM(UTC)
You must be remembering it differently to me, because I never recall anyone doubting or arguing that he hadn't exceeded the limits or that it was "close" - the big issue was that he got penalised whilst other track limit indiscretions over the course of the weekend (including during qualifying) were overlooked or allowed to stand.

The argument about track limits in F1 had _never_ been about their actual position (and I've been watching most races for the last 15 years), it has been about the inconsistent enforcement and punishment. It has gotten a lot worse in the last 10 years or so due to the increasing percentage of "modern" tracks with tarmac runoff areas which do not sufficiently punish running off-course, thus drivers push (and exceed) the limits because they know the governing body is lackadaisical at enforcing its own rules and there are often significant gains to be found (in a sport where hundreds and thousandths of a second can separate drivers)

Edited by user Saturday, May 19, 2018 4:09:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#107 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 2:41:25 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CW40 Go to Quoted Post
I'm all for stopping corner cutting, ramming and cheating but If the track limit is as tight as it shows in the video, that's really ridiculous. Your tire can't even touch the strips at the edge or even go a little off track in areas that are designed for it in real life. Really stupid decision that will make it like racing on rails in my opinion. Not realistic at all.



^^^ absolutely on point. thanks for saying thiscw40. it would really compromise the game


Rank: B-Class Racing License
#108 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 3:13:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post

Will stop people who post stupidly fast times on tracks, Only to find out when you watch there lap in replay they have cut chunks of the actual track. Are they fast drivers or just dirty drivers with clean lap times. This will level the playing field and actually produce clean driving with out the excuse for cutting that some are claiming if it says clean it is clean even though I went off road several times in my hot lap.
The current Bounty Hunt is a classic exzample of what some are claiming clean driving just because you have a clean lap dose not make it clean or in the interest of competive motor racing cheating is cheating and cutting weather clean or dirty is cheating in my books. I am looking foward to the new track limit system.


Originally Posted by: Sith Metal 1971 Go to Quoted Post
we may see who really is the quickest, with more realistic times .

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but, the same people will be at the top of the boards and you will still be where you place. And such is the circle of forza.


No not bad news to me I average in the top 10% on certin tracks and about 25% on others and on watching replays wondering why im so far behind on certin tracks I normaly find that the reason is the fasters players not actuall staying on the actual track but using the less than steller forza limits.

I know im not the fastest and never will be but with improved track limits it will narrow the difference between those who do there best to use the real track limits to thoes who ignore them and use forza limits and they are not the same thing one keep a driver on the actual track for 100% of the lap while the other puts the driver on and off the actual track.


I think you are hyping this up too much.
Rank: Series Champion
#109 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 4:31:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
with improved track limits it will narrow the difference


Uh, no.
Talking to brick walls since 2007.
Motivational Poster. Praise Dragnet
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#110 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 4:59:11 PM(UTC)
Considering the AI drives like a bunch of angry kids ramming me off the track and turning every race I have into a demolition derby tightening track limits will most likely make a clean race impossible. I think fixing the AIs childish driving should have been addressed before track limits. It's the one thing that makes me leave the game after doing a couple of races to play something else. The only real way to enjoy driving is to fight back at the ramming AI until you get in front and basically just do laps alone. Not exactly a proper racing experience.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#111 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 5:24:11 PM(UTC)
Aliens will still be much faster. They're known for driving on the knife's edge all the time. The limits are the same for everyone, so they'll adapt to the limits the same way everyone will.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#112 Posted : Saturday, May 19, 2018 6:19:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
with improved track limits it will narrow the difference


Uh, no.


Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Aliens will still be much faster. They're known for driving on the knife's edge all the time. The limits are the same for everyone, so they'll adapt to the limits the same way everyone will.


You seem to be missing the point all I am saying is with all tracks having improved more standard track limits players should find that reglardes of ther skill level, will find that they are placing in the same XX% on most tracks. So a player how places in the top 15% will place in the top 15% on most tracks plus or minus a couple of percentage points. I am well aware ther are some very fast drivers hard to miss with all the bragging in the Bounty Posts.

But with more accurate track limits it will stop a lot of the blantant corner cutting that is happening in the name of Im the fastest, and will give those other skilled and very fast drivers who do ther best to stay within the percived tracl limits IE between the lines and on the track to make it to the top.

From watching replay you will notice those who cut as much as possible are about 2 to 6 seconds faster than those who dont depending on the track. Ovals not included in this estimate of the time difference between cutting and not cutting.


One has to wonder why those who are at the top of the leader boards dont seem to be the same people who qualify for ForzaRC
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#113 Posted : Sunday, May 20, 2018 10:15:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
with improved track limits it will narrow the difference


Uh, no.

I think this will happen. When the new track limits are introduced, the leaderboards will shuffle a bit (not by much though). Smoother drivers will initially jump up the leaderboards a bit, as will wheel drivers. Then after time it will go right back to what we have now with little or no change. What may change stuff will actually be updates like steering angle.

The track limits over time will make no difference imo.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#114 Posted : Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:05:29 PM(UTC)
Slightly concerned if all these regulations and penalties are made mandatory in single player as would they apply to drivatars? I know in the Horizon series point to point races they can skip checkpoints without being reset and in FM7 their current driving style is questionable at the best of times. If they can cause chaos with no repercussions yet the player is penalised at the slightest incident that would be a real concern to someone who regularly plays single player.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#115 Posted : Sunday, May 20, 2018 1:46:03 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TearierMist5047 Go to Quoted Post
Slightly concerned if all these regulations and penalties are made mandatory in single player as would they apply to drivatars? I know in the Horizon series point to point races they can skip checkpoints without being reset and in FM7 their current driving style is questionable at the best of times. If they can cause chaos with no repercussions yet the player is penalised at the slightest incident that would be a real concern to someone who regularly plays single player.


I'm wondering this as well. Throughout all Forza games, the Drivatars have never been bound by any rules or even laws of physics, so hopefully that changes with this update.

🇨🇦
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#116 Posted : Sunday, May 20, 2018 2:36:40 PM(UTC)
The limits as shown in the video look reasonable. What I hope is that they consider sector time before applying a penalty. There are times when cutting the course is acceptable, like to drive around out of control cars. Where the sector time is important is that it tells if you used the cut to gain an advantage. If your sector time is slower than any of your previous laps, no penalty should be applied. It’s also important because previous sector times provide a fair baseline for what the actual penalty should be. As in, maybe the penalty is the advantage gained +50%.

But I don’t believe that even Gran Turismo is this sophisticated in their approach, so it probably won’t happen here either.

Edited by user Sunday, May 20, 2018 2:37:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
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#117 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 1:45:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
What's the issue with applying proper track limits to single player
Shouldn't that be what we are driving to anyway

I Totally agree.

Rank: Racing Permit
#118 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 1:49:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
with improved track limits it will narrow the difference


Uh, no.

I think this will happen. When the new track limits are introduced, the leaderboards will shuffle a bit (not by much though). Smoother drivers will initially jump up the leaderboards a bit, as will wheel drivers. Then after time it will go right back to what we have now with little or no change. What may change stuff will actually be updates like steering angle.

The track limits over time will make no difference imo.


Does make me wonder if all out speed tunes will become slightly less popular.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#119 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 6:34:58 AM(UTC)
Please put penalties on for illegal passing and contact as well, I'm tired of taking the inside corner intentionally and early on, only to be rammed out of the way or for people to make illegal passes and dive bombs causing wrecks
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#120 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 6:35:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: B4LTY Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
with improved track limits it will narrow the difference


Uh, no.

I think this will happen. When the new track limits are introduced, the leaderboards will shuffle a bit (not by much though). Smoother drivers will initially jump up the leaderboards a bit, as will wheel drivers. Then after time it will go right back to what we have now with little or no change. What may change stuff will actually be updates like steering angle.

The track limits over time will make no difference imo.


Does make me wonder if all out speed tunes will become slightly less popular.


The reason why I hate all out speed tunes is because people don't respect me and ram me 24/7 and treat this game like a destruction derby
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#121 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 7:34:24 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DELIM0N 007 Go to Quoted Post
Please put penalties on for illegal passing and contact as well, I'm tired of taking the inside corner intentionally and early on, only to be rammed out of the way or for people to make illegal passes and dive bombs causing wrecks


Lets not forget to add them in for dirty lapping and cutting, I am amazed how often the players who finish in 1st and 2nd very rearly have a clean lap, How is it possibel that out of a 6 to 8 lap race in ghost races not to have at least one clean lap. Any player who can manage to finish in a podium position with no clean laps should be shunted to last position for a penialty. I dont mind the ghost League races as I dont have to pit every race from being ramed like I do in Sim races, but I am sick of coming in 3rd or 4th with clean lap only to find that the 2 or 3 ahead off me did not even manage a single clean lap . Not 1 single clean lap in a ghost race is just disguesting.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#122 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 5:21:38 PM(UTC)
I'm curious as to wheather or not they're going to remove the tire barriers on all tracks. The video of Monza chicane looked nice without the tirewalls blocking the view of the track. Charles
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#123 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 5:36:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DeadhandCharlie Go to Quoted Post
I'm curious as to wheather or not they're going to remove the tire barriers on all tracks. The video of Monza chicane looked nice without the tirewalls blocking the view of the track. Charles

I hope they remove all barriers on real world tracks. And remove the cones as well. With the illuminated track limits, we no longer need cones. Hopefully this'll stop those annoying tire wall pile ups, loose tires on track and improve general visibility.

Tracks like Prague are annoying with tire walls, though I'm not too fussed if they stay as they're fictional tracks.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#124 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 5:45:54 PM(UTC)
The car crushing signs and exploding tire piles can all go as well. I wonder how much smoother Forza would run if we didn’t all have to render and track all of those safety hazards races tend to get stopped for.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#125 Posted : Monday, May 21, 2018 7:03:02 PM(UTC)
I am excited for this change and cant wait to try it out myself to see how different some of the tracks will be. I do predict there will be some changes in the leaderboard positions but I think the current top 100 will still be top 100 after the changes just because of their ability to adapt.
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