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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#101 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 4:46:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
This is what a gamer would say... but not a racer.

I'd be surprised if pro racers didn't have a mindset of maximising performance within the rules, just like all other sportspeople. Indeed in many sports they seem happy to go beyond what most people would regard as being the rules, e.g. using TUEs to take drugs for performance enhancement rather than a genuine medical need.
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#102 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 5:53:07 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post


This is what a gamer would say... but not a racer.


You couldn't be more wrong. Basically every race driver ever has and always will be using everything within the regulations to maximize his chance of winning. It's up to the people who regulate (in this case T10) to set limits.
As much as I dislike the "tricks" you have to do on this track the only ones to blame are T10.

Greetings from the 24h of Nürburgring.

Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#103 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 7:04:31 AM(UTC)
Have you seen all the caved in rear windows in NASCAR this year getting penalized? Every racer, every crew chief takes every fraction of a mm of advantage they can get even if there is risk in having that part fail and end up getting penalized. The rule says the rear window needs to be rigid. The brace breaks and you get busted for cheating. The rear window is moving some amount you can't see before that brace breaks though. If it wasn't those braces would be strong enough to not fail.

The pulling on side skirts to flare them out a few years back. The rules didn't say they couldn't but that was clearly not in the spirit of the rules. They don't care about the spirit. They care about getting every advantage they can and they will spend millions in a wind tunnel or on a shaker rig to find that advantage.

We're lucky to only have to blast through some tires, haha.

Racers race to win. The spirit of the rules means nothing

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 7:05:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#104 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:00:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: four cam tbird Go to Quoted Post
Have you seen all the caved in rear windows in NASCAR this year getting penalized? Every racer, every crew chief takes every fraction of a mm of advantage they can get even if there is risk in having that part fail and end up getting penalized. The rule says the rear window needs to be rigid. The brace breaks and you get busted for cheating. The rear window is moving some amount you can't see before that brace breaks though. If it wasn't those braces would be strong enough to not fail.

The pulling on side skirts to flare them out a few years back. The rules didn't say they couldn't but that was clearly not in the spirit of the rules. They don't care about the spirit. They care about getting every advantage they can and they will spend millions in a wind tunnel or on a shaker rig to find that advantage.

We're lucky to only have to blast through some tires, haha.

Racers race to win. The spirit of the rules means nothing


The consensus of opinion among racers in Multiplayer Lobbies, never again shall anyone ask why.

But on a serious note, this thread is quickly going into the gutter. We have everything from cheating accusations, embracing of the phrase "It's okay to cheat , just don't get caught" , straight down to childish school yard trash talking.

I know it's wishful thinking, but shouldn't this thread be for discussing the event itself in general. People asking for help on how to go faster, and others providing that help. It started of okay, but sure has took a turn for the worst.
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#105 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:31:29 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: breeminator Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
This is what a gamer would say... but not a racer.

I'd be surprised if pro racers didn't have a mindset of maximising performance within the rules, just like all other sportspeople. Indeed in many sports they seem happy to go beyond what most people would regard as being the rules, e.g. using TUEs to take drugs for performance enhancement rather than a genuine medical need.


They do. I was originally going to bring up Schumacher's finish at one GP where he served a drivethrough penalty by crossing the finish line in the last lap in the pitlane.

But I haven't seen anyone willingly crash head on into tire barriers yet, unless it involved taking the opponent out of the race!
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#106 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:17:36 AM(UTC)
During Rally Mexico power stage Sebastien Ogier did a similar thing by basically ramming through a chicane barriers. He got a penalty (10 seconds), but the team made an appeal for it and currently they are still waiting the verdict (I hope the penalty stays). Professional race drivers time to time still do this kind of naughty things. In this case those barriers should have been filled with water - that way there wouldn't have been any kind of temptation to go straight through a chicane.
Rank: Series Champion
#107 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 1:55:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post


The consensus of opinion among racers in Multiplayer Lobbies, never again shall anyone ask why.

But on a serious note, this thread is quickly going into the gutter. We have everything from cheating accusations, embracing of the phrase "It's okay to cheat , just don't get caught" , straight down to childish school yard trash talking.

I know it's wishful thinking, but shouldn't this thread be for discussing the event itself in general. People asking for help on how to go faster, and others providing that help. It started of okay, but sure has took a turn for the worst.


Be the change you want to see..

Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post

I personally will remain clean for as long as possible


The only one inference from your own words
Get off your horse.
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#108 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 5:42:12 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post


The consensus of opinion among racers in Multiplayer Lobbies, never again shall anyone ask why.

But on a serious note, this thread is quickly going into the gutter. We have everything from cheating accusations, embracing of the phrase "It's okay to cheat , just don't get caught" , straight down to childish school yard trash talking.

I know it's wishful thinking, but shouldn't this thread be for discussing the event itself in general. People asking for help on how to go faster, and others providing that help. It started of okay, but sure has took a turn for the worst.


Be the change you want to see..

Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post

I personally will remain clean for as long as possible


The only one inference from your own words
Get off your horse.

A personal challenge for myself and possibly others directly followed by the words ", but like PJTierney said "Playing to Win" is also in the spirit of competition." Followed up later in the same post with "Like I said I will choose to not Horizon the tire piles at full ramming speed, but if it starts getting tight I may "Play to Win". I am not extremely fast, but I am not so slow that I feel I need to cut corners. Let's just hope the Bounties follow suit and keep it on the track. If they don't I may have to as well."

Preceded by the following in the same post "On this particular track it isn't a question of morality. Running this track without blasting thru walls of tires would be like entering a race and filling your car with lots of ROCKS and BOULDERS giving everyone your racing against a significant leg-up on you."

That's me basically saying any of us that choose not to take full advantage of this design flaw by Turn 10 are not playing to win.

As far as the "Cheating Accusations" statement goes. You were the one blindly accusing others discussing how flawed this track is, of accusing people of cheating. You can exploit a legal loophole all you want, cheating one, not so much. I read others posts on here and never got the impression of anyone saying someone was cheating. Taking full advantage of everything presented to them , yes, but certainly not cheating.

I am not upon any horse. So what exactly was the point of your post? To take my words out of context, stir the pot some more. I noticed one of your posts has also vanished from this thread. Never mind, to be perfectly honest I am done debating this subject, as it's quite clear you are missing the point.
Rank: Series Champion
#109 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 5:50:41 PM(UTC)
Moderators are going to moderate.

"I will personally remain clean as possible" infers that by default, running the line the game deems clean is cheating/dirty when it isnt. It doesnt mean anything else.
You can take the jab, but you cant nullify it by saying "but" afterwards. It doesnt work like that.

Anyone else that says "In my opinion" is also inferring that those that run the line are cheating.

Imposing limits on ones self "because" is nothing but a moral superiority position. One you, and a couple others in this very thread continue to push.

You and atleast 3 others dragged the thread down this path. I just called you all out on it.
Put up, or shut up.

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 5:52:29 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#110 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 5:54:13 PM(UTC)
It's obvious to me that using lines like demonstrated below were not how this track was intended to be run and the evidence is in how the suggested line navigates these corners.

However, the catch all statement of "what Forza considers clean shall be clean," is one I am used to from other online racing events - albeit where the margins between clean and 'Forza clean' are narrower.





Personally, it is my sense of sportsmanship that means I will not be using these lines but I can't fault anyone who does because they are only playing the game within the ruleset allowed.

I'm not the fastest, I'm never going to be the fastest so I'm going to play the game how I enjoy it and everyone else is free to do the same.
It's like the age old debates around the use of 'LB Cars', assists and controller vs wheel - if you play the game in a way you enjoy and focus on your enjoyment then what other people do (as long as its not something asinine like ramming) is of no consequence because you are enjoying yourself.

Fingers crossed it is stuff like this that will stimulate the devs to get it sorted for the next iteration in the franchise so there is no debate over it *starts daydreaming*
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#111 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 6:47:29 PM(UTC)
Na, that would make the game better. Customizable driver suits and the ability to see our drivatar without the helmet on and customize his face. That's probably the kind of stuff they're working on.

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 6:47:59 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#112 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 7:02:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Moderators are going to moderate.

"I will personally remain clean as possible" infers that by default, running the line the game deems clean is cheating/dirty when it isnt. It doesnt mean anything else.
You can take the jab, but you cant nullify it by saying "but" afterwards. It doesnt work like that.

Anyone else that says "In my opinion" is also inferring that those that run the line are cheating.

Imposing limits on ones self "because" is nothing but a moral superiority position. One you, and a couple others in this very thread continue to push.

You and atleast 3 others dragged the thread down this path. I just called you all out on it.
Put up, or shut up.


Unless you are counting the poster above as one of the 3, you should edit that number to reflect 4 now.

Did you not read the very first post on page one of this thread by ManteoMax stating below:

Grand Prix Circuit: ForzaRC IndyCar Challenge
•Division = Indycar, Rental Only (Homologated)

•Restrictions = No Friction Assist

•Track: Indy GP
Note: Unless Mechberg states otherwise, what the game considers clean is a clean lap.


Unless I missed the memo, I have seen no evidence clearing up this question. When and where is Mechberg going to fully clarify what is clean and what isn't. All I get from reading this is that it may or may not change moving forward.

Most of the discussion about what is dirty and what is clean, stems from this, and the fact that we going to be chasing supposed Real Race Car Drivers, that just ran on this track yesterday in IRL. I can just picture them discussing this very same topic. Conor Daly says to Josef Newgarden "Well Josef should we plow thru the tires or shouldn't we". If you are going to have a contest all the cards need to be laid out on the table from the beginning. Stating that unless "So and So states otherwise, what the game considers clean is a clean lap" is by no means clear at all.


As far as putting up or shutting up goes. Throw your time up on them Leaderboards and I'll give it a go.

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 7:13:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
#113 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 7:08:38 PM(UTC)
Its in Yellow and Black. Clear as Day. That states what the game says is clean is clean. No Opinions, no misinterpretting, unless you have a /!\, its clean. end of.

knock down the tyres, every other lap is clean. The game says its clean. Whats to confirm? Nothing.

I take exception to anyone who imposes limits on themselves and tries to infer otherwise against others. Nope, not having it. Its a game, your moral justification doesnt matter/count.

As for me putting up, Ive put up plenty on this forum over the last 13 years and there are many here that will tell you that. Me, have to prove to you?, LOL.

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 7:11:08 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#114 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:23:56 PM(UTC)
They really need be making a clarification on it soon
But i cant see them chainging the boundaries now
When i was checking replays about 20 hours ago of the 25 random ones i checked...all the top 10 and all the way up to top 100 they all smashed both the turn 1 tires as well as the turn 7 tires
Probably be a lot more now
1st one not smashing either tires was #102
Bet they have gone to smashing them too now
Bet it's more like top 200-250 now

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:28:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#115 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:33:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
They really need be making a clarification on it soon

When i was checking replays about 20 hours ago of the 25 random ones i checked...all the top 10 and all the way up to top 100 they all smashed both the turn 1 tires as well as the turn 7 tires
Probably be a lot more now
1st one not smashing either tires was #102
Bet they have gone to smashing them too now
Bet it's more like top 200-250 now


Finally , Thank the Heavens, someone else who read the exact same thing that I did, and was able to ascertain that what is going to be deemed clean or dirty is still up in the air.

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#116 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:45:59 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
They really need be making a clarification on it soon

When i was checking replays about 20 hours ago of the 25 random ones i checked...all the top 10 and all the way up to top 100 they all smashed both the turn 1 tires as well as the turn 7 tires
Probably be a lot more now
1st one not smashing either tires was #102
Bet they have gone to smashing them too now
Bet it's more like top 200-250 now


Finally , Thank the Heavens, someone else who read the exact same thing that I did, and was able to ascertain that what is going to be deemed clean or dirty is still up in the air.


I added that i cant see them changing it but it looks terrible at the moment watching those replays
They would have to do a full leaderboard wipe for the event if they changed it now
But they do need to clarify it after the statement in the op

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:48:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
#117 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:48:47 PM(UTC)
quick question...

How many of the leaderboards have been wiped in 7?

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 8:50:03 PM(UTC)  | Reason: spelling is atrocious today.

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#118 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:07:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
quick question...

How many of the leaderboards have been wiped in 7?


Oh, so now all the sudden you can read.

P.S. If you are going to trash talk myself and others, back it up with some Lap Times. Being a member of these forums for 13 years doesn't entitle you a free pass to talk trash to people. Either put a time up or forget about it. Practice what you preach "Put Up or Shut Up". I could care less either way, it's just a video game.
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#119 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:07:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
quick question...

How many of the leaderboards have been wiped in 7?


None and not likelly to happen either...they would need to fix the track boundaries first and pigs will fly before that happens

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:09:41 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#120 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:13:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post

Unless I missed the memo, I have seen no evidence clearing up this question. When and where is Mechberg going to fully clarify what is clean and what isn't. All I get from reading this is that it may or may not change moving forward.


I was trying to get out in front of this discussion without assuming I could state with a certainty what T10 would do, but as Dust says, there's nothing to clarify: if the game says it's clean, it's clean, and everyone is using the same playing field.
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#121 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:14:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ChristinaRacing Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
quick question...

How many of the leaderboards have been wiped in 7?


Oh, so now all the sudden you can read.

P.S. If you are going to trash talk myself and others, back it up with some Lap Times. Being a member of these forums for 13 years doesn't entitle you a free pass to talk trash to people. Either put a time up or forget about it. Practice what you preach "Put Up or Shut Up". I could care less either way, it's just a video game.


I can read just fine.

"Unless mechberg states otherwise" - I do not see a post from Mechberg anywhere on these forums or blog. His last tweet was on May 3rd.
so this part is irrelevant.

"what the game considers clean is a clean lap"

Is it dirty in game? No? then its clean.

Edit. Max posted at same time.

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:15:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Max. :)

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#122 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:22:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
quick question...

How many of the leaderboards have been wiped in 7?


None and not likelly to happen either...they would need to fix the track boundaries first and pigs will fly before that happens


Just watch my first replay of the #1 driver. I'm gonna try to mimic that line and see if I can best talby's time!😁
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#123 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:37:09 PM(UTC)
@DUST2DEATH

That's fine, but as we all know perfectly well things can change in the world of Forza. ForzaRC dropping qualifying spots from 400 to 120 for ghost races mid stream due to people not showing up for races. Completely understandable, I personally don't really care about earning points in the ForzaRC. Just doing the Rivials for fun, but it knocked a lot of other people out of spots.

I never really thought they would change anything moving forward, but that statement by ManteoMax left a small tiny shadow of doubt in mind.

@ManteoMax

Thanks for clearing this up.

Edited by user Sunday, May 13, 2018 9:48:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#124 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 10:53:28 PM(UTC)
Its all good.
I cant even do ForzaRC cause Im on PC, Use a wheel and T10 cant be bothered to run dedi servers so that everything is server side.
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#125 Posted : Sunday, May 13, 2018 11:04:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: CRracer 912 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: talby71 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
quick question...

How many of the leaderboards have been wiped in 7?


None and not likelly to happen either...they would need to fix the track boundaries first and pigs will fly before that happens


Just watch my first replay of the #1 driver. I'm gonna try to mimic that line and see if I can best talby's time!😁


shouldn't take much i'm at least 7 or 8 secs away from the top times :)
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