3 Pages123Prev
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#51 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2018 3:36:46 AM(UTC)
I love the audi touring car. And racing in pro league is fair most of the time. Had some very good races the last days. Whats the rank after pro? Expert?
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#52 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:15:20 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Froggy2205 Go to Quoted Post
Pinnacle seemed to be much busier last night. Was on for a couple hours and the lobby didn't go below 15 drivers. I've noticed that the "race car" divisions seem to be more popular than the "road car" divisions.

I'm liking the touring cars. They all seem to be competitive (except the Mercedes) the Audi looks strongest overall but the civic, Volvo and Chevy are not far behind. I spent most of the night in the Volvo.


That traffic change is due to a player base that don't agree.

The road car divisions (not including high end car varieties) fans are those who like racing road cars against other road cars regardless of division. There is a subset of this group who love FWD and a subset of that who love Honda's. Therefore you may see upticks for Honda or FWD based divisions. Generally the complaints with class based racing here was goofy upgrades, odd physics for some cars, and starting PI issues.

Race car division fans hated the class based racing. They want division based racing so that race cars they like can be competitive for once. Class based racing really doesn't work well for the upper class road and race cars.

There's a decent probability if the road car division is unbalanced and/or includes cars they don't like, the player will do class based multiplayer instead.

Edited by user Wednesday, March 21, 2018 10:16:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
#53 Posted : Wednesday, March 21, 2018 4:59:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Froggy2205 Go to Quoted Post
Pinnacle seemed to be much busier last night. Was on for a couple hours and the lobby didn't go below 15 drivers. I've noticed that the "race car" divisions seem to be more popular than the "road car" divisions.

I'm liking the touring cars. They all seem to be competitive (except the Mercedes) the Audi looks strongest overall but the civic, Volvo and Chevy are not far behind. I spent most of the night in the Volvo.


That traffic change is due to a player base that don't agree.

The road car divisions (not including high end car varieties) fans are those who like racing road cars against other road cars regardless of division. There is a subset of this group who love FWD and a subset of that who love Honda's. Therefore you may see upticks for Honda or FWD based divisions. Generally the complaints with class based racing here was goofy upgrades, odd physics for some cars, and starting PI issues.

Race car division fans hated the class based racing. They want division based racing so that race cars they like can be competitive for once. Class based racing really doesn't work well for the upper class road and race cars.

There's a decent probability if the road car division is unbalanced and/or includes cars they don't like, the player will do class based multiplayer instead.


Yeah this is why a simcade title will always be divisive like this... :(

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to having class-based events in career as well as permanent breakout hoppers in standard multiplayer, but the way some people acted about it, that the lack of such events "ruins the game", I don't agree with.

Horizon 3 was where the class system got the most ridiculous, since Playground Games wanted people to traverse those dirt roads and the best way to force them to do it was to make the AWD conversion overpowered, which had the side effect of making the tire upgrades underpowered. The result was a game that, with the favored builds, drives pretty much the same as a Need For Speed game, perhaps even less realistically. Blizzard Mountain didn't help matters since AWD is mandatory to even drive on the roads, let alone win races. Later came Hot Wheels to even the odds but the plastic roads have less grip than tarmac so you end up with AWD cars anyway.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: On the Podium
 1 user liked this post.
#54 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 4:36:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Froggy2205 Go to Quoted Post
Pinnacle seemed to be much busier last night. Was on for a couple hours and the lobby didn't go below 15 drivers. I've noticed that the "race car" divisions seem to be more popular than the "road car" divisions.

I'm liking the touring cars. They all seem to be competitive (except the Mercedes) the Audi looks strongest overall but the civic, Volvo and Chevy are not far behind. I spent most of the night in the Volvo.


That traffic change is due to a player base that don't agree.

The road car divisions (not including high end car varieties) fans are those who like racing road cars against other road cars regardless of division. There is a subset of this group who love FWD and a subset of that who love Honda's. Therefore you may see upticks for Honda or FWD based divisions. Generally the complaints with class based racing here was goofy upgrades, odd physics for some cars, and starting PI issues.

Race car division fans hated the class based racing. They want division based racing so that race cars they like can be competitive for once. Class based racing really doesn't work well for the upper class road and race cars.

There's a decent probability if the road car division is unbalanced and/or includes cars they don't like, the player will do class based multiplayer instead.


Yeah this is why a simcade title will always be divisive like this... :(

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to having class-based events in career as well as permanent breakout hoppers in standard multiplayer, but the way some people acted about it, that the lack of such events "ruins the game", I don't agree with.

Horizon 3 was where the class system got the most ridiculous, since Playground Games wanted people to traverse those dirt roads and the best way to force them to do it was to make the AWD conversion overpowered, which had the side effect of making the tire upgrades underpowered. The result was a game that, with the favored builds, drives pretty much the same as a Need For Speed game, perhaps even less realistically. Blizzard Mountain didn't help matters since AWD is mandatory to even drive on the roads, let alone win races. Later came Hot Wheels to even the odds but the plastic roads have less grip than tarmac so you end up with AWD cars anyway.


It wasn't ruined, but it was a short sighted issue. It wasnt a bad idea at all to do spec based divisions but how it was implemented was pretty bad in the multiplayer and rivals perspective. It's obvious T10 learned they screwed up badly now that's there is almost a breakout hopper for all classes. It's too late to change single player, but I'd imagine FM8 may take the approach of using classes and divisions.

FH3 was a coding issue that has been around since FM2. This is what Forza motorsport would be like had their not been PI calculation changes.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#55 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 7:48:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
...but I'd imagine FM8 may take the approach of using classes and divisions.


That would make a very fun and diverse career mode.


🇨🇦
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#56 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 9:40:21 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Froggy2205 Go to Quoted Post
Pinnacle seemed to be much busier last night. Was on for a couple hours and the lobby didn't go below 15 drivers. I've noticed that the "race car" divisions seem to be more popular than the "road car" divisions.

I'm liking the touring cars. They all seem to be competitive (except the Mercedes) the Audi looks strongest overall but the civic, Volvo and Chevy are not far behind. I spent most of the night in the Volvo.


That traffic change is due to a player base that don't agree.

The road car divisions (not including high end car varieties) fans are those who like racing road cars against other road cars regardless of division. There is a subset of this group who love FWD and a subset of that who love Honda's. Therefore you may see upticks for Honda or FWD based divisions. Generally the complaints with class based racing here was goofy upgrades, odd physics for some cars, and starting PI issues.

Race car division fans hated the class based racing. They want division based racing so that race cars they like can be competitive for once. Class based racing really doesn't work well for the upper class road and race cars.

There's a decent probability if the road car division is unbalanced and/or includes cars they don't like, the player will do class based multiplayer instead.


Yeah this is why a simcade title will always be divisive like this... :(

Honestly, I wouldn't be opposed to having class-based events in career as well as permanent breakout hoppers in standard multiplayer, but the way some people acted about it, that the lack of such events "ruins the game", I don't agree with.

Horizon 3 was where the class system got the most ridiculous, since Playground Games wanted people to traverse those dirt roads and the best way to force them to do it was to make the AWD conversion overpowered, which had the side effect of making the tire upgrades underpowered. The result was a game that, with the favored builds, drives pretty much the same as a Need For Speed game, perhaps even less realistically. Blizzard Mountain didn't help matters since AWD is mandatory to even drive on the roads, let alone win races. Later came Hot Wheels to even the odds but the plastic roads have less grip than tarmac so you end up with AWD cars anyway.


It wasn't ruined, but it was a short sighted issue. It wasnt a bad idea at all to do spec based divisions but how it was implemented was pretty bad in the multiplayer and rivals perspective. It's obvious T10 learned they screwed up badly now that's there is almost a breakout hopper for all classes. It's too late to change single player, but I'd imagine FM8 may take the approach of using classes and divisions.

FH3 was a coding issue that has been around since FM2. This is what Forza motorsport would be like had their not been PI calculation changes.


In Free Play you can run classes but they need to fix it first. AI doesn't upgrade nor has custom designs.

Another way they could fix this is to make road cars hit some sort of ceiling above which only race cars would be eligible.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#57 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 10:20:51 AM(UTC)
The scoring seems to have been improved. You don't lose tons of points for not finishing in the position you started anymore. I'm not sure if it is just because the skill levels are more balanced now or they made a change. Whatever it is, the leagues are much better now for me at least. I think there should still be overall points for the week to crown a winner of a league. While it was mostly people who played a lot with the most points it did encourage great competition and kept people playing.

Edited by user Thursday, March 22, 2018 10:25:50 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#58 Posted : Thursday, March 22, 2018 1:20:25 PM(UTC)
I've been thinking about Swerve's post and came up with more conclusions.

Turn 10 promised homologation as a way to balance the divisions. However, they didn't take the following into account:

1) For balancing to work better, the cars need to be close to each other in stock form. In some divisions, this is not the case, such as Rebirth of Muscle, where the Mustang II is way lighter than the others and can drop weight even further.

2) As if it wasn't enough, there are divisions with cars originally released many years apart. An extreme case of this is Showroom Rally, where the Alpine is a 1972 model and competes with cars more than three decades newer! The result is obvious: the Alpine is lightweight, can reach more than 200 bhp and has plenty of rear grip due to the weight distribution, while cars such as the 2005 WRX are already almost at the peak of the division spec.

3) The feature was ambitious but many classes were left imbalanced, giving the impression that it was a failure, even though this is the first game with homologation whereas there were six games class-centric and by the fourth we all knew how botched the system was.

Furthermore, as Swerve pointed out, there's a rift among players. Those into race cars do not want to share grids with those into road cars (mostly Hondas and other JDM). And they are right! It's ridiculous how you can "soup up" a Civic and embarrass GT-class cars. It's something out of Need for Speed and pushes the game into arcade territory. On the other hand, divisions are bad for fans of cars with strong modding support (such as JDM) because their scope is much limited and you can't upgrade these cars to run against the top dogs anymore, at least not in divisional competition. Turn 10 tried to amend this by dropping the NSX and the Skyline GT-R into Sport GT Icons, which has a hefty PI limit of A700 and runs with Sport tires, but it clearly wasn't enough since the R32 GT-R is left in Early Sport Touring with a ceiling of B525 (which pleases fans of touring car racing but not the JDM crowd) and the RX-7 variants, the Silvia variants, the Eclipse and the GTO are in Sport Compact Icons with a lowly PI of C500. The GTO even requires a restrictor plate to run there!

All the aforementioned would already have been enough to cause problems, but there's yet another issue at hand: licensing. Seriously, I don't believe for one second that the Civics are competitive in this game because of how good their real counterparts are. They've even managed to elude a restrictive homologation system to come out on top against cars which theoretically should give them a run for their money (Mk3 Golf for example and its torquey VR6 engine). Two of the Hot Hatch divisions are dominated by variants of the Honda Civic (1984 CRX in Genesis and 1997 Type-R in Icons). I'm sorry, but this cannot be an accident, much like how the fact we have at least one Nissan and one FCA vehicle in each car pack is not an accident either, as well as the fact most showcases in the game feature Ford cars. If the Civic was uncompetitive then many players would've been put off by the game and would drop it, considering Honda has such a large following. I also believe the balance in the Exotic GT class being tipped towards the Vantage GT12 is a bit of an anomaly, considering these tend to happen with cars that pack something unique in their classes, such as incredible power-to-weight ratio (which is why Lotus cars were all put in Track Toys) or better standard aero such as the aforementioned Aston. And Turn 10 better not make a Ferrari bottom of the barrel in their class!

So yes, I fully believe the backlash against homologation comes, as I was suspecting by looking around at places like reddit, from the JDM crowd for the most part, with the secondary support from the hypercar fans. Which means that fans of simulation are out of luck with this game, as Turn 10 simply won't prioritize simulation features such as qualifying and proper pit stops. The JDM guys don't need those. Fans of hypercars don't need those either. For them, this game could be as arcade as Horizon is (ok, perhaps this is a bit of an exaggeration as the Honda diehards wouldn't enjoy it, but the abundance of unrealistic conversions appeals to many people), provided they could use their favorite cars to do everything in single player and to embarrass cars from other marques online. And possibly with the blessing from the developer itself! These people don't care about cars such as Porsche 935 or Alfa Romeo 8C 2300. All they need is their faithful Honda Civic/Bugatti Veyron and a grid of clowns to play second fiddle to them.

I don't intend to point fingers at Turn 10 with this post, mainly because other developers such as EA are worse in this regard. My goal is to try and explain how difficult it can be to attain balance in games with licensed content such as these.

Edited by user Thursday, March 22, 2018 1:21:23 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#59 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 6:10:30 AM(UTC)
Did anybody get the blue robot driver gear? I received the season reward and all weekly rewards, but I didn't get the driver gear. I did of course do a race during the week.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#60 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 4:46:38 PM(UTC)
Scoring system is definitely easier. I've noticed a lot more deliberate crashers and cheap shot artists in the forza GT league.

I was in first on road atlanta then someone I lapped decided to target me after getting out of the pits. He got kicked as I think he rammed some other guys. He rammed me into someone else and that same person decided to swear their head off at me (both guys were reported). Thank goodness for "dirty racer" feedback.

This is pinnacle, by the way.
I buy, upgrade and tune cars to the max. That's what I live for in Forza. I'm always in the need for more cars. Check out my custom routes in Horizon 4! https://forums.forzamoto...routes.aspx#post_1133141
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 5:29:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: AudibleJam509 Go to Quoted Post
Scoring system is definitely easier. I've noticed a lot more deliberate crashers and cheap shot artists in the forza GT league.

I was in first on road atlanta then someone I lapped decided to target me after getting out of the pits. He got kicked as I think he rammed some other guys. He rammed me into someone else and that same person decided to swear their head off at me (both guys were reported). Thank goodness for "dirty racer" feedback.

This is pinnacle, by the way.


These guys must play all day... Hard to compete. I don't like leagues sometimes because the rotation doesn't make sense... In Formula 90's we only got short tracks.
May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#62 Posted : Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:07:00 PM(UTC)
? I got full circuits pretty much all the time in Formula 90's. The crying shame is that the Nordschleife never comes up in leagues. It will clear a lobby yes but so does Yas and that just keeps coming. Some like to cut on YAS and ok whatever but some like to also put in clean Nordschleife laps. Please put it in rotation for ghost at least. It's only the greatest track in the world, give it some love Turn 10.

Edited by user Sunday, March 25, 2018 9:19:47 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#63 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2018 5:48:21 AM(UTC)
I had two instances last night in the Diablo Spec event where multiple versions of the same track appeared back-to-back, Sonoma (Full, Short) and Monza (Full, Full Alt) specifically. Those could've easily been replaced by other tracks like Nürburgring or Watkins Glen. I have no idea why the track voting system was omitted from leagues, but it would've helped in this case.

1939 Mercedes-Benz T80 (Cancelled via WWII) - 3000hp 44.5L V12 - 470mph (Projected)
Rank: R-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#64 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2018 10:50:08 AM(UTC)
I don't think voting in leagues is a good idea. People don't know how to vote in hoppers why would leagues be any better. 2 good tracks come up and they vote random cause they are difficult. I kind of like doing different versions back to back. 3 Indy in a row in ghost is awesome. It's not every time it is just certain tracks

Edited by user Monday, March 26, 2018 10:51:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#65 Posted : Monday, March 26, 2018 11:37:12 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: leetorts Go to Quoted Post
I don't think voting in leagues is a good idea. People don't know how to vote in hoppers why would leagues be any better. 2 good tracks come up and they vote random cause they are difficult. I kind of like doing different versions back to back. 3 Indy in a row in ghost is awesome. It's not every time it is just certain tracks


I am sure it is more they don't want to vote than "not knowing how to"

Verrückter Schakal | ­ ­ The Höllenhund
3 Pages123Prev

Notification

Icon
Error