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Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#1 Posted : Thursday, January 25, 2018 12:40:14 PM(UTC)
I just did a 30 lap race in the Aerial Atom on brandshatch dry. I was stuck at 9th place for ages before fuel got down to about 25%, then started reeling in the AI. I figured maybe the AI is just going slower but I noticed lap after lap I was shaving about 1/10th of a second off my best lap. Eventually getting it about 1.5 seconds faster than my best lap, despite me feeling like I was driving more sloppy due to fatigue. Is this due to fuel weight? The way I see it is fuel does add weight, or im just getting better and better by doing laps, but then tyre wear and fatigue should come into play.

Also noticed the AI seems to slow down towards the end of the race. Actually ended up being an epic race with the AI all pitting at different times, and me actually ending up 3rd which was good because my car was underpowered and got destroyed on the straights. Love it when everything just works and myself and the AI settles down on the track, it was an awesome battle. My best lap time was in the top 2% in Europe, wonder how much better it could have been had I used a leaderboard car.
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#2 Posted : Thursday, January 25, 2018 10:08:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VolusiaF5 Go to Quoted Post
I just did a 30 lap race in the Aerial Atom on brandshatch dry. I was stuck at 9th place for ages before fuel got down to about 25%, then started reeling in the AI. I figured maybe the AI is just going slower but I noticed lap after lap I was shaving about 1/10th of a second off my best lap. Eventually getting it about 1.5 seconds faster than my best lap, despite me feeling like I was driving more sloppy due to fatigue. Is this due to fuel weight? The way I see it is fuel does add weight, or im just getting better and better by doing laps, but then tyre wear and fatigue should come into play.

Also noticed the AI seems to slow down towards the end of the race. Actually ended up being an epic race with the AI all pitting at different times, and me actually ending up 3rd which was good because my car was underpowered and got destroyed on the straights. Love it when everything just works and myself and the AI settles down on the track, it was an awesome battle. My best lap time was in the top 2% in Europe, wonder how much better it could have been had I used a leaderboard car.


In reality, it's a factor for sure. Gasoline has a density of about 7 pounds/gallon, but I doubt that was something that was coded into the physics engine.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#3 Posted : Thursday, January 25, 2018 11:06:45 PM(UTC)
Could it not be you getting used to the course and learning how to best take specific corners?
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#4 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 4:59:07 AM(UTC)
With sim damage I run faster deep useage of tires and fuel. It wasn't huge difference maybe 1-2 tenths. It might more about the tires.
After doing a 45min tora races lasts night. I notice each lap used 5% fuel a lap no matter if its a full speed, ot rolling cation going 60 mph.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 4:59:42 AM(UTC)
This is kinda one of those "Forza mystery" things that you will always hear/see different opinions on. I've personally never noticed any effect from it, but then I also play on a controller. I have a few friends who use a wheel that swear that they can feel the difference.

It's difficult to test as there is no way to limit our fuel fills or change tires without getting fuel.

It's the same kinda thing with other aspects of the game. You will hear wildly different things about fuel mileage, tire wear, aero, post-pitstop car behavior, dirty tires after going off-track, and surely a few other things I'm forgetting.

Edited by user Friday, January 26, 2018 5:52:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#6 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 5:48:03 AM(UTC)
Is there life anywhere else in the universe? Why do I hate clowns? Is fuel weight simulated in FM?
So many questions no one can answer.
It's been discussed to death over the years, but I don't think T10 has ever given a straight answer to that question.

Edited by user Friday, January 26, 2018 5:48:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#7 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 9:42:34 AM(UTC)
Yes, it is. It's the reason why you can lap faster on worn tires than when you have a full tank and fresh new tires.

And you can feel the worse lateral grip from a full tank.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
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#8 Posted : Friday, January 26, 2018 11:00:17 AM(UTC)
I run the Fuel and Tires sim and I am not that sure about the fuel but I am positive enough about the tire wear making a difference to the point on my longer hotlapping jaunts I will pit and change tires expecting to cut a killer time 4-5 laps later and 9 out of 10 times it happens too.
Usually hanging out at position 12 so you will need to look in your rearview mirror to see me.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#9 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 12:35:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RavingLunatic01 Go to Quoted Post
I run the Fuel and Tires sim and I am not that sure about the fuel but I am positive enough about the tire wear making a difference to the point on my longer hotlapping jaunts I will pit and change tires expecting to cut a killer time 4-5 laps later and 9 out of 10 times it happens too.


Yea I notice the same, the car just feels heavier in turns straight after pitting and also slides more because the tyres havnt heated up enough yet. Even if the blue is gone off the tyre symbols it doesnt mean they have reached optimum grip.
Tbh on a game that alters weight based on your rim choices, it wouldnt surprise me if they did have fuel weight in the game, weird they didnt clarify though
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#10 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 8:42:06 AM(UTC)
Many racing sims have it but not Forza. If it had then how much fuel at race start and how much refill in pitstops would be a thing

What is interesting here is that fuel consumption seems to be a thing, beeing different from car to car.
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#11 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 1:27:29 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Nuno150 Go to Quoted Post
Many racing sims have it but not Forza. If it had then how much fuel at race start and how much refill in pitstops would be a thing

What is interesting here is that fuel consumption seems to be a thing, beeing different from car to car.


Doesnt mean it isnt there. Devs could have added x amount extra lbs and it slowly decreases over time.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 2:51:42 PM(UTC)
Fuel consumption is weird and based on how powerful as well as how new the car is. Old muscle cars are surprisingly economical!
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Saturday, January 27, 2018 3:37:00 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VolusiaF5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RavingLunatic01 Go to Quoted Post
I run the Fuel and Tires sim and I am not that sure about the fuel but I am positive enough about the tire wear making a difference to the point on my longer hotlapping jaunts I will pit and change tires expecting to cut a killer time 4-5 laps later and 9 out of 10 times it happens too.


Yea I notice the same, the car just feels heavier in turns straight after pitting and also slides more because the tyres havnt heated up enough yet. Even if the blue is gone off the tyre symbols it doesnt mean they have reached optimum grip.
Tbh on a game that alters weight based on your rim choices, it wouldnt surprise me if they did have fuel weight in the game, weird they didnt clarify though


Bounty with P3 on Hockenheim really put the tire thing on the radar for me regarding the heat and wear of tires. I reckon as the tire showed yellow I was cutting my best laps mainly because the Porsche was digging in a bit so a little slide was a benefit. It could have been my wheel but as I got around lap 7 of every run I was on fire although by lap 10 I was ice skating so there is a pivot that needs to be taken seriously or for the sake of one lap you end up writing your name in cursive.


I like the fuel/pit set up in RaceRoom where I set up 3 pit strategies including how much gas I want to put in, fix damage etc. The downside is trying to call the pit crew via buttons/D-pad on the wheel confirm you are coming in and choose which preset all at 150 MPH can get a little untidy.



Usually hanging out at position 12 so you will need to look in your rearview mirror to see me.
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#14 Posted : Sunday, February 4, 2018 11:59:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FsT Happy A Go to Quoted Post
With sim damage I run faster deep useage of tires and fuel. It wasn't huge difference maybe 1-2 tenths. It might more about the tires.
After doing a 45min tora races lasts night. I notice each lap used 5% fuel a lap no matter if its a full speed, ot rolling cation going 60 mph.



Thats a pretty strange "issue" as I made 100ish laps @ Le Mans with Ford GT FE 2017 (2 weeks ago) and had to pay attention at how I spent fuel since I had to pit at every 4-6 laps.
Pitting at every 6 is already painful enough hehe !!!
Rank: Driver's License
#15 Posted : Sunday, February 4, 2018 12:08:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VolusiaF5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RavingLunatic01 Go to Quoted Post
I run the Fuel and Tires sim and I am not that sure about the fuel but I am positive enough about the tire wear making a difference to the point on my longer hotlapping jaunts I will pit and change tires expecting to cut a killer time 4-5 laps later and 9 out of 10 times it happens too.


Yea I notice the same, the car just feels heavier in turns straight after pitting and also slides more because the tyres havnt heated up enough yet. Even if the blue is gone off the tyre symbols it doesnt mean they have reached optimum grip.
Tbh on a game that alters weight based on your rim choices, it wouldnt surprise me if they did have fuel weight in the game, weird they didnt clarify though


Let me know if I'm wrong, but :
- new tires = low pressure; usually, lowering pressure increases grip so after a pit stop, your tires should have more grip then when heated.
Why do u say the car slides more ? I'm 95% sure that :
increased contact on road from deflated tires > increased contact on road from heated tires
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#16 Posted : Sunday, February 4, 2018 1:11:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
Fuel consumption is weird and based on how powerful as well as how new the car is. Old muscle cars are surprisingly economical!


I´ve heard that fuel tank sizes vary, that might explain this..
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#17 Posted : Sunday, February 4, 2018 2:44:58 PM(UTC)
All I know for sure is that if you are driving a car built by Dodge or its siblings you will be pitting before all other brands and manufacturers for fuel. And that is actually pretty realistic. Hemi engines and the SRT-10 engine are so hilariously thirsty for what you get in return. Make no doubt about the power a Hemi engine can make but the 454 from Chevrolet running premium gas will get nearly the same hp and more torque and won't empty its tank after three laps of lime rock.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#18 Posted : Wednesday, February 7, 2018 6:45:04 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VolusiaF5 Go to Quoted Post
I just did a 30 lap race in the Aerial Atom on brandshatch dry. I was stuck at 9th place for ages before fuel got down to about 25%, then started reeling in the AI. I figured maybe the AI is just going slower but I noticed lap after lap I was shaving about 1/10th of a second off my best lap. Eventually getting it about 1.5 seconds faster than my best lap, despite me feeling like I was driving more sloppy due to fatigue. Is this due to fuel weight? .


Yes, as you burn fuel you load gets lighter and you drive faster, as long as your car is thrirsty on fuel and is good on tyers and you are a smooth driver.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#19 Posted : Friday, February 9, 2018 12:03:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Glaire163 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VolusiaF5 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RavingLunatic01 Go to Quoted Post
I run the Fuel and Tires sim and I am not that sure about the fuel but I am positive enough about the tire wear making a difference to the point on my longer hotlapping jaunts I will pit and change tires expecting to cut a killer time 4-5 laps later and 9 out of 10 times it happens too.


Yea I notice the same, the car just feels heavier in turns straight after pitting and also slides more because the tyres havnt heated up enough yet. Even if the blue is gone off the tyre symbols it doesnt mean they have reached optimum grip.
Tbh on a game that alters weight based on your rim choices, it wouldnt surprise me if they did have fuel weight in the game, weird they didnt clarify though


Let me know if I'm wrong, but :
- new tires = low pressure; usually, lowering pressure increases grip so after a pit stop, your tires should have more grip then when heated.
Why do u say the car slides more ? I'm 95% sure that :
increased contact on road from deflated tires > increased contact on road from heated tires


That doesnt make anywhere nearr as much of a difference as the heat of the tyres. You're supposed to set your PSI so its optimum when tyres are warm
Rank: Driver's Permit
#20 Posted : Friday, February 9, 2018 12:58:45 PM(UTC)
I noticed that in an endurance race, my lap times were the fastest on low gas just before the tyres got above 75% wear. Then lap times got slower because of worn tyres. then I pitted and once the tyres warmed up I was back to quick lap times. This is something I believe to be new to Forza 7. At least the dramatic change in these factors. I remember doing endurance races in forza 3 and not feeling a thing.
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#21 Posted : Monday, February 12, 2018 9:09:33 AM(UTC)
To add to my point above: 50 laps around Bathurst in a 911 RSR I learned that with low fuel My car got 5mph faster on the straights and slightly more nimble in tight corners of that track. It was very easy to save fuel until the AI caught up then just mash it and get away from 2nd place man.
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#22 Posted : Tuesday, November 26, 2019 2:38:29 PM(UTC)
Might be late to reply, however I might have found a way to truly test this wich I am going to test tomorrow.

Obviously tyre wear is going to effect peformance aswell, and even though you will have that sweet spot where tyres are still good enough and fuel is low enough (if it’s saving weight that is) for you to actually set some good lap times, when fuel truly is low enough tyres will also be worn too much.

And since we can’t choose how much fuel we take with us, this would always be a problem. But what if we could lower our fuel without damaging our tyres?

Setting your car aside the track for a long time reffing the engine will burn fuel, albeit slowly, without damaging the tyres.

And altough this will obviously never be a good race strategy, it will give us the best tyre/fuel ratio we could ever have in Forza 7, because the tyres will be fresh and the fuel will be as low aa you want.

Now, ofcourse there are some huge downsides. I’ve calculated that it takes about 3 hours to reff your way to about 15% fuel (luckely reffing the engine doesn’t damage it), but you could always place some rubber bands on your throttle and clutch and do something else in the meantime. Aside from that, eventhough this might be a good strategy for leadboard times, you only get around 3 good laps at 15% fuel, if you screw up you can start all over again. You can take more, but that also increases the weight. And you do want to warm your tyres too, so with 15% you effectively only get 1-2 good laps.

Long story short, this might all be **** and I’ve just wasted 15 minutes typing this and gonna waste 3 hours tomorrow trying this theory, wish me luck! Hahah XD
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#23 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 4:37:16 AM(UTC)
Let me clear up a lot of misconceptions here.

Q: Does tire wear have any effect?
A: No. Tire wear has no effect on grip until you hit 80.00% tire wear. Then you hit a cliff where tire grip dramatically falls off and tire wear accelerates greatly. It's probably a glitch that was never patched.

Q: Does fuel have an effect on car weight?
A: No.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#24 Posted : Wednesday, November 27, 2019 8:59:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Let me clear up a lot of misconceptions here.

Q: Does tire wear have any effect?
A: No. Tire wear has no effect on grip until you hit 80.00% tire wear. Then you hit a cliff where tire grip dramatically falls off and tire wear accelerates greatly. It's probably a glitch that was never patched.

Q: Does fuel have an effect on car weight?
A: No.


^ This

I did a full run a while back (iirc fuel went first) at hockenhiem. I practiced and practiced until i had supreme consistency with the combo i was using. Lapped no more than .2 difference the entire stint and those were def driver errors. Those who are seeing discrepencies it is due to your driving. You are getting faster from practice not from tyre wear, or fuel burn.

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Rank: S-Class Racing License
#25 Posted : Friday, December 13, 2019 12:26:26 PM(UTC)
I disagree, I think and pretty sure both have an affect. I been using sim fuel and tiers since game came out.
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