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#26 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:05:54 PM(UTC)
I've seen the video and yes, it is far too "sweary" to be allowed on this forum. That is the main reason that Hiero removed it. I don't think the content was the issue, just the presentation of said content.

If one has already been following the news over the weekend then the video doesn't say anything particularly new: the game's economy seems to have been built to suppprt a future microtransaction model and people aren't happy about it. I guess that's also why the various glitch and exploit methods are being spread around more rapidly than what I remember from recent titles.

I'm not a fan of the Prize Crates either (I don't mind that cars are harder to obtain in general though), though it doesn't affect me much in the long-term as I race and paint enough to have tons of CR anyway.

It'll be interesting to see how Microsoft handle this, as this is the first time since Forza Motorsport 5 that the series has been getting highly critical coverage from the mainstream games media.

For what it's worth the core of the game is still extremely well done; cars look great, sound great and are fun to drive. The Campaign is well thought out and Free Play has tons of great features. It's just the whole economy thing (and to a lesser extent some Multiplayer and Community features) that people are upset about.

This game is going to evolve over the next few months (let's not forget it is still technically Day 1) and hopefully some things will be added or changed in a way that lets players drop their pitchforks for a while.

Edited by user Wednesday, October 4, 2017 3:29:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#27 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:10:07 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Hahahaha. You've resorted to censorship hey.


This forum is a PG environment, always has been, that video, is not PG friendly. Not at all. Now I know this is mini moderating , but come on... that content is just not needed man. As a long time forum member, I've seen this time and time again. Plus, their call is the final word. Like it or not.

Some things are just not appropriate , before the whole freedom of speech thing is touted, you've agreed to the rules , and well, there it is.

Just play nice man.


I have no idea who this Jim dude is, nor do I really care to know, but we all know there are issues with FM7, and a swear laden message, is not the way to get positive attention from a developer. All they'll do, is ignore you and move on.

I've been a fan and player of Forza for many many years. And I am disheartened to see what has come with FM7, and IF I were to make a review, I certainly wouldn't have done it as he did, and I certainly wouldn't have posted that here.

There are right ways and wrong ways of doing things

Edited by user Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:12:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


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#28 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:10:56 PM(UTC)
Quick addition to my previous post.

The other component is to disassociate the gambling experience with real money by using a stand in.

In a Casino it's poker chips.

In Forza, it will be tokens.
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#29 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:15:28 PM(UTC)
....

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#30 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:19:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VerrucktSchakal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Hahahaha. You've resorted to censorship hey.


This forum is a PG environment, always has been, that video, is not PG friendly. Not at all. Now I know this is mini moderating , but come on... that content is just not needed man. As a long time forum member, I've seen this time and time again. Plus, their call is the final word. Like it or not.

Some things are just not appropriate , before the whole freedom of speech thing is touted, you've agreed to the rules , and well, there it is.

Just play nice man.


I have no idea who this Jim dude is, nor do I really care to know, but we all know there are issues with FM7, and a swear laden message, is not the way to get positive attention from a developer. All they'll do, is ignore you and move on.

I've been a fan and player of Forza for many many years. And I am disheartened to see what has come with FM7, and IF I were to make a review, I certainly wouldn't have done it as he did, and I certainly wouldn't have posted that here.

There are right ways and wrong ways of doing things


A PG environment that actively encourages gambling among children? What kinda of PG environment is this?
Rank: On the Podium
#31 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:19:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: T REX 5753 Go to Quoted Post

They are lucky its you Hiero,God knows they don't want Dragnet on the case!!!



Perhaps more than they might ever know. Dragnet actually spotted if first and alerted me to it. I volunteered to go ahead and take care of it since I'm already top of so many people's dance cards this week.



I still owe you a dance Heiro. Unless you don't wanna be my best man anymore? Lol. I wonder if you even still remember that conversation so long ago

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#32 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:20:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VerrucktSchakal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Hahahaha. You've resorted to censorship hey.


This forum is a PG environment, always has been, that video, is not PG friendly. Not at all. Now I know this is mini moderating , but come on... that content is just not needed man. As a long time forum member, I've seen this time and time again. Plus, their call is the final word. Like it or not.

Some things are just not appropriate , before the whole freedom of speech thing is touted, you've agreed to the rules , and well, there it is.

Just play nice man.


I have no idea who this Jim dude is, nor do I really care to know, but we all know there are issues with FM7, and a swear laden message, is not the way to get positive attention from a developer. All they'll do, is ignore you and move on.

I've been a fan and player of Forza for many many years. And I am disheartened to see what has come with FM7, and IF I were to make a review, I certainly wouldn't have done it as he did, and I certainly wouldn't have posted that here.

There are right ways and wrong ways of doing things


A PG environment that actively encourages gambling among children? What kinda of PG environment is this?



Since there are no tokens within FM7, or use of real money for purchase of anything in game, there is no gambling.

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#33 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:24:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: VerrucktSchakal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VerrucktSchakal Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Hahahaha. You've resorted to censorship hey.


This forum is a PG environment, always has been, that video, is not PG friendly. Not at all. Now I know this is mini moderating , but come on... that content is just not needed man. As a long time forum member, I've seen this time and time again. Plus, their call is the final word. Like it or not.

Some things are just not appropriate , before the whole freedom of speech thing is touted, you've agreed to the rules , and well, there it is.

Just play nice man.


I have no idea who this Jim dude is, nor do I really care to know, but we all know there are issues with FM7, and a swear laden message, is not the way to get positive attention from a developer. All they'll do, is ignore you and move on.

I've been a fan and player of Forza for many many years. And I am disheartened to see what has come with FM7, and IF I were to make a review, I certainly wouldn't have done it as he did, and I certainly wouldn't have posted that here.

There are right ways and wrong ways of doing things


A PG environment that actively encourages gambling among children? What kinda of PG environment is this?



Since there are no tokens within FM7, or use of real money for purchase of anything in game, there is no gambling.


Money doesn't need to be involved for the game to be gambling. And anyway, real money will soon be used in a future update.
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#34 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:28:04 PM(UTC)
Hieronymus1967

I also greatly appreciate what you do. None of this is your fault but yet you have to deal with us being upset. Thanks for maintaining the forums.

The review was very over dramatic but has some truth in it (at least it appears).

Edited by user Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:28:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#35 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:29:57 PM(UTC)
I have watched both Sterling and Pretty Good Gaming reviews of loot box motors honestly I feel the same way about the gambling mechanic behind the loot box trend.

One part about both videos is they do not know how the game works and basing the mods argument over a false premise that you have to buy the mods to race at night or in the rain. These small amounts of misinformation completely remove any chance of a credible argument by both creators.

I think most of them are just trying to help the game industry move away from the marketers they hired from the mobile gaming markets but they all should gather a bit more accurate information when trying to present an argument.
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#36 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:30:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: benjidordoni Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Agree?

[Mod Edit - Hieronymus (Inappropriate link removed)]


Apologies, but this website is for an E for Everyone/Pegi 3+ rated game and this forum allows posters as young as 13. The link you posted is to material that were you to post of transcript of to the forums would earn you an instant permanent ban.



Hieronymus, I realize that in this case, the OP's post was in violation of the ToS for the forums. I'm not disagreeing with you here.

But your snarky, aggressive, and condescending tone as of late is not representing these forums well. When people have concerns about the game, meeting those concerns with an upturned nose and a haughty, aloof manner does not make people feel less concerned. I realize that negativity may be overwhelming but you are not making things any better with this behavior. In fact, you're probably reinforcing the negative image that people may have about the game.


I am in disagreement with you on this. I think he has been a bit snarky and condescending. But he's also had reasons for it. It's a way to say to other people that are reading his replies, "hey, this is how we as a group of moderators feel about people like this". These posters have a bunch of more snarky and much more condescending (lets not even talk about juvenile and immature). You don't have to agree with the moderators, that's not what they're here for, they're here to moderate.

I don't like when they move one of my questions or new threads to an existing one when I think it has a separate place. But that's the way it goes and that's their determination. Don't like what goes on here... leave. Don't like the game... don't buy it or get a refund. Simple.

I read nearly every thread and every posting in every thread in between racing. I don't think anyone has been banned or any thread has been blocked for any reason that was not completely legitimate. There by he's doing his job as a moderator exactly as it is intended.

The person that mentioned censorship has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. I think his response to that was quite clear.

Do you want, or could you do, his job?Would you like to have to read through every single post and then make the determination if somebody is breaking the terms of service? Or acting rudely, etc etc. There's a fine line and balance of letting people express their opinions and it's a tough job as a moderator to do it. I think he's allowed everyone that's been unhappy to express those opinions in a fair and decent manner.
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#37 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:42:54 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RaindancerAU Go to Quoted Post


It's called conditioning.

It's dark and it's not a good direction.


It's called capitalism.

The "it's dark" gave me a good laugh. What do you think this is Darth Vader and the leader of North Korea getting together to steal your money?

And it's a video game people. It's not like the grocery store is all the sudden charging you $10 for a gallon of milk and you're going to have trouble feeding your family.

If they want to add a feature either use it or don't. It is your choice you have the control. be No one is doing anything to you or making you do anything, remember that. If you don't have any self-control, that's on you as an adult. If you're a kid and you're using it that's on your parents. Responsibility.

It's time to grab yourselves and say hey this is on me. If you don't like a feature don't use it, and definitely don't spend your money on it. I don't like McDonald's, I think it's absolute garbage and it's overpriced. Therefore I never eat there. Simple solution.

I can't believe people are whining about this like somehow somebody is sneaking into their bank account and taking all of their money, stealing their Doritos and letting their dog run loose in the neighborhood. It's a couple of loot boxes and they're completely totally free with game credits. Whether you enjoy them or not they're not dark it's just the way that gaming has evolved, welcome to it.

Better look out, what's that, it's evil loot boxes. Run, run and hide. Grab your family and your money. It's dark and evil, the world is crumbling around you.

Edited by user Tuesday, October 3, 2017 4:44:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#38 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 5:07:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KKDURAZZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RaindancerAU Go to Quoted Post


It's called conditioning.

It's dark and it's not a good direction.


It's called capitalism.

The "it's dark" gave me a good laugh. What do you think this is Darth Vader and the leader of North Korea getting together to steal your money?

And it's a video game people. It's not like the grocery store is all the sudden charging you $10 for a gallon of milk and you're going to have trouble feeding your family.

If they want to add a feature either use it or don't. It is your choice you have the control. be No one is doing anything to you or making you do anything, remember that. If you don't have any self-control, that's on you as an adult. If you're a kid and you're using it that's on your parents. Responsibility.

It's time to grab yourselves and say hey this is on me. If you don't like a feature don't use it, and definitely don't spend your money on it. I don't like McDonald's, I think it's absolute garbage and it's overpriced. Therefore I never eat there. Simple solution.

I can't believe people are whining about this like somehow somebody is sneaking into their bank account and taking all of their money, stealing their Doritos and letting their dog run loose in the neighborhood. It's a couple of loot boxes and they're completely totally free with game credits. Whether you enjoy them or not they're not dark it's just the way that gaming has evolved, welcome to it.

Better look out, what's that, it's evil loot boxes. Run, run and hide. Grab your family and your money. It's dark and evil, the world is crumbling around you.


You don't know what you're talking about :)

Nothing to do with capitalism here. This is a gambling game that has been designed to appeal to people with addictive personalities. This is designed to get children into gambling. It's not too far off packing in a pack of cigarettes with every UE sold.
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#39 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 5:10:38 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KKDURAZZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RaindancerAU Go to Quoted Post


It's called conditioning.

It's dark and it's not a good direction.


It's called capitalism.

The "it's dark" gave me a good laugh. What do you think this is Darth Vader and the leader of North Korea getting together to steal your money?

And it's a video game people. It's not like the grocery store is all the sudden charging you $10 for a gallon of milk and you're going to have trouble feeding your family.

If they want to add a feature either use it or don't. It is your choice you have the control. be No one is doing anything to you or making you do anything, remember that. If you don't have any self-control, that's on you as an adult. If you're a kid and you're using it that's on your parents. Responsibility.

It's time to grab yourselves and say hey this is on me. If you don't like a feature don't use it, and definitely don't spend your money on it. I don't like McDonald's, I think it's absolute garbage and it's overpriced. Therefore I never eat there. Simple solution.

I can't believe people are whining about this like somehow somebody is sneaking into their bank account and taking all of their money, stealing their Doritos and letting their dog run loose in the neighborhood. It's a couple of loot boxes and they're completely totally free with game credits. Whether you enjoy them or not they're not dark it's just the way that gaming has evolved, welcome to it.

Better look out, what's that, it's evil loot boxes. Run, run and hide. Grab your family and your money. It's dark and evil, the world is crumbling around you.


Nope, this is considered gambling.
See:

https://www.kotaku.com.au/2016/04/the-greens-call-for-stronger-regulations-around-gambling-in-video-games/

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-09-13/video-game-addiction-how-the-industry-is-learning-from-casinos/8941114

https://theconversation.com/can-a-federal-court-case-against-pokies-succeed-where-politics-has-failed-83871

Quote:

This is why section 18 of the Australian Consumer Law provides protection against misleading and deceptive conduct – even where consumers could have discovered the truth had they dug a little deeper. It also provides protection against unconscionable conduct, which in this case relates to the plaintiff’s claim that the poker machines are designed to be addictive.


T10 just walked into a firestorm.

Edited by user Tuesday, October 3, 2017 5:12:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#40 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 9:12:25 PM(UTC)
I agree with some of Jim's points, but I think he's making a bigger deal out of it than it is. Of course, that's kind of what he does. But this topic is one of his pet peeves, so he slobbered all over it a bit more than he might've otherwise.
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#41 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:12:09 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Hieronymus1967 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Agree?

[Mod Edit - Hieronymus (Inappropriate link removed)]


Apologies, but this website is for an E for Everyone/Pegi 3+ rated game and this forum allows posters as young as 13. The link you posted is to material that were you to post of transcript of to the forums would earn you an instant permanent ban.



Don't throw around ESRB ratings as an excuse. Game with gambling in them are supposed to be rated Adults Only. The only reason it is allowed in children's is because we disguise it.

Edited by user Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:17:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#42 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:18:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post

You don't know what you're talking about :)

Nothing to do with capitalism here. This is a gambling game that has been designed to appeal to people with addictive personalities. This is designed to get children into gambling. It's not too far off packing in a pack of cigarettes with every UE sold.


I absolutely know what I'm talking about. It's quite rude to tell me that I don't. And then put a :) after it.

It has everything to do with capitalism. It is a retail product sold to generate revenue and profit. That is capitalism. Maybe you should learn something before you spout off a bunch of opinions. Not based on any fact whatsoever.

The definition of capitalism by Merriam-Webster (quoted directly from their website)...
An economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.


This is a racing game designed to appeal to people that are interested in cars and racing. The fact that you say this is designed to get children into gambling, exactly where do you come up with that? So what you're saying is basically a large software company with many employees sat around the table 14 years ago and said, "let's start this game called Forza and put cars and racing in it, and in 14 years it'll turn into this thing where people get addicted to gambling, especially children". Do you understand how ludicrous that sounds.
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#43 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:21:34 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KKDURAZZ Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post

You don't know what you're talking about :)

Nothing to do with capitalism here. This is a gambling game that has been designed to appeal to people with addictive personalities. This is designed to get children into gambling. It's not too far off packing in a pack of cigarettes with every UE sold.


I absolutely know what I'm talking about. It's quite rude to tell me that I don't. And then put a :) after it.

It has everything to do with capitalism. It is a retail product sold to generate revenue and profit. That is capitalism. Maybe you should learn something before you spout off a bunch of opinions. Not based on any fact whatsoever.

The definition of capitalism by Merriam-Webster (quoted directly from their website)...
An economic system characterized by private or corporate ownership of capital goods, by investments that are determined by private decision, and by prices, production, and the distribution of goods that are determined mainly by competition in a free market.


This is a racing game designed to appeal to people that are interested in cars and racing. The fact that you say this is designed to get children into gambling, exactly where do you come up with that? So what you're saying is basically a large software company with many employees sat around the table 14 years ago and said, "let's start this game called Forza and put cars and racing in it, and in 14 years it'll turn into this thing where people get addicted to gambling, especially children". Do you understand how ludicrous that sounds.

Turn 10 has ALREADY stated that you will be able to buy loot boxes in the future. Loot boxes give you a RANDOM award. Thus it will encourage players to pay to get a chance at the award they want. It is gambling as well as capitalism.
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#44 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:33:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: KKDURAZZ Go to Quoted Post
I absolutely know what I'm talking about. It's quite rude to tell me that I don't. And then put a :) after it.


Sorry to break this to you, but you don't know what you're talking about :)
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#45 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:38:52 PM(UTC)
Jim sterling review... it`s just some random lootbox rant, why even call it a review ?
As long as this makes money, and it does in all games it has been implemented, it will continue to appear in titles that want to get $$$, regardless of people crying over it. At least you can buy the crates with credits if you want, if they keep it like this it`s ok you can get 300k credits in 2-3 races (1 hour and 3min max) not such a big deal if crates are your thing. How many credits do you guys have in FM6 after 2 years of playing ? I`m betting a lot, most of you don`t even have what to spend them on, you can now spend all that excess if you`re tired of buying cars, or have all the cars you wanted on these box stuff.

Edited by user Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:46:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#46 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:49:07 PM(UTC)
Heres the thing,people rely on other peoples opinion way to much.As for me,I decide what I like or don't like,trust my gut,its worked for 60 years now,i could really care less what some you tuber thinks!!!!!
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#47 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:50:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Slimssss Go to Quoted Post
Jim sterling review... it`s just some random lootbox rant, why even call it a review ?
As long as this makes money, and it does in all games it has been implemented, it will continue to appear in titles that want to get $$$, regardless of people crying over it. At least you can buy the crates with credits if you want, if they keep it like this it`s ok you can get 300k credits in 2-3 races (1 hour and 3min max) not such a big deal if crates are your thing. How many credits do you guys have in FM6 after 2 years of playing ? I`m betting a lot, most of you don`t even have what to spend them on, you can now spend all that excess if you`re tired of buying cars, or have all the cars you wanted on these box stuff.


Actually that was my mistake, he never refers to his stuff as reviews. As correct as he absolutely is.
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#48 Posted : Tuesday, October 3, 2017 11:52:58 PM(UTC)
Also do you think if forza would not make $$$, this forum would still be here ? Or do you guys live with the impression games get developed by people for free, and they just have a passion for programing stuff ?
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#49 Posted : Wednesday, October 4, 2017 12:11:50 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: T REX 5753 Go to Quoted Post
................... i could really care less what some you tuber thinks!!!!!


Most sensible remark in this thread.


Better than always being right is knowing when to shut up
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#50 Posted : Wednesday, October 4, 2017 1:03:33 AM(UTC)
So some guy called Jim made a video highlighting issues that have been discussed on the forums for the last few days he didn't raise any new issues just included some profanity.
Please excuse me if I don't return Forza Motorsport 7 Immediately. How does someone like that even gather a following.. hey look at me I'm going to criticize the few negative parts of a fantastic game...
and then what a bunch of people with nothing better to do were like well, I'm incapable of deciding whether or not I'm enjoying this game I might watch a YouTube video about it.
Hahahah go get another game I think we can all agree that no one on the forum wants those type of people repeatedly bagging out a game that hasn't been released for a week.
A few people should probably just go home and reevaluate what there doing with their lives.. ahem.. Jim
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