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#26 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 4:09:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: IMA COrNerCuTAA Go to Quoted Post
[quote=xboxgamer969;776403] I wonder if I could use my t150 pro for ps4 to play forza7 on a pc.


Yes I believe so, it is in the supported peripherals list.
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#27 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 4:42:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
What happened to graphics?

A seven-year-old graphics card, that's what.

The Xbox One has 7-year old hardware in it.


Disingenuous imo, the console is 4 years old, not 7. (Yes I realise you mean the hardware was not high end even on its debut. But nor was the 360's hardware ever considered high end.)

Forza 4 came out four years after Forza 2, and each successive iteration had better graphics.



Xbox 360's GPU was high end. The console launched November 2005 and at the time it's GPU was virtually as fast as the best single cards of the era. A few months later from brute force it fell behind inevitably but it was still technically more advanced, because it had a unified architecture and DX10 like hardware features not seen in desktop video cards for nearly another year in the Geforce 8800 series.

We did indeed see a pretty huge improvement from Forza 2 to Forza 4 in graphics though. I would put that down to the simple architecture of the latest consoles. 360 was relatively easy to work with after numerous complex console designs, but you still had plenty of performance you could find as you learnt the tricks of it.

It seems the existing consoles however are so much easier and familiar to get into (PC in a box) that it's difficult to produce anything extra even when you have had years working on it. You have such good tools to maximise performance that you can do it quickly, and little is left on the table unless you made a real mess.
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#28 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 5:01:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Vulcan Project Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
What happened to graphics?

A seven-year-old graphics card, that's what.

The Xbox One has 7-year old hardware in it.


Disingenuous imo, the console is 4 years old, not 7. (Yes I realise you mean the hardware was not high end even on its debut. But nor was the 360's hardware ever considered high end.)

Forza 4 came out four years after Forza 2, and each successive iteration had better graphics.



Xbox 360's GPU was high end. The console launched November 2005 and at the time it's GPU was virtually as fast as the best single cards of the era. A few months later from brute force it fell behind inevitably but it was still technically more advanced, because it had a unified architecture and DX10 like hardware features not seen in desktop video cards for nearly another year in the Geforce 8800 series.

We did indeed see a pretty huge improvement from Forza 2 to Forza 4 in graphics though. I would put that down to the simple architecture of the latest consoles. 360 was relatively easy to work with after numerous complex console designs, but you still had plenty of performance you could find as you learnt the tricks of it.

It seems the existing consoles however are so much easier and familiar to get into (PC in a box) that it's difficult to produce anything extra even when you have had years working on it. You have such good tools to maximise performance that you can do it quickly, and little is left on the table unless you made a real mess.


For 360 it was mostly the PowerPC architecture that held back early games (and it was the first time with multiple cores and parallelization). But yes, the architecture of PS4 and Xbox One is really simple for a PC developer. As such there are no more magical gains, you have to take a little to give a little, it's more about moving ressources around. As such the new features in Forza 7 come at a price of harsher LOD settings, less track detail, more popups (reduced draw distance) and lower resolution textures. I'd even say the reason we got Dubai is because desert is visually much more forgiving than say the intricate details of a city like London or New York. Let's just hope that One X will give us a true graphical jump - and that under Phil Spencer Turn 10 has more influence on the design of the next gen Xbox. Xbox One was designed by non-gamers and it shows.

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#29 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 5:23:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Wh1t3Kn1te Go to Quoted Post
good thing I don't play games for graphics. but gameplay. and so far I am liking what I see


You absolute MADMAN dont you know graphics are everything. It doesn't matter if the game is good it needs to look good! 4K resolution only!!!!! This game looks bad so it is automatically bad!
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#30 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 6:19:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Those screenshots are pretty damning. Forza 6 already made a lot of quite drastic cuts to quality from Forza 5 and now they've gone further backwards. It will be interesting to see comparisons with other tracks to see what else they've quietly downgraded.

Interestingly, this is the opposite of last gen where the Forzas graphically all got unequivocally better with each new release.


Not quite true my friend. Between FM3 and 4, there was a graphical downgrade. Do a side by side comparison and tracks in 4 looked washed out while losing a fair amount of trackside detail. The FM4 forums were getting hammered with complaints but in order to achieve the improvements in sound and physics while keeping frames capped, it had to be done. FM4 did have vastly improved car sounds and physics, not to mention more tracks and all the other goodies.

Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
What happened to graphics?

A seven-year-old graphics card, that's what.

The Xbox One has 7-year old hardware in it. As Ialyrn and others have pointed out, many new and CPU intensive features have been added to each game. And that causes details to be sacrificed. T10 has said that every track has a specific budget that it must stay within to maintain 60fps. Looks like the foliage and textures were taking up too much of that budget, so they were cut back.

If graphics are that important to you, that's the whole reason Microsoft is making the Xbox One X. It will run all tracks and cars at full detail, whereas the older and weaker Xboxes can still play the game, but they will have reduced visual and audio quality.


Why are people under the impression that the One-X boasts higher detail levels compared to the base Xbox One models? It is a 4K/HDR console and ALL the additional power that it has is to run games at a LOCKED 60/30fps @4K resolution. Resolution, as you PC buffs especially know, has nothing to do with detail, filtering or anti-aliasing.

All in all, you will see very sharp and crisp textures, coupled with perhaps better FSAA or MSAA. the additional power in all likelihood can be used for faster loading times and multi-tasking. What does this means for games? Little to no stuttering, super-stable frame rates with little texture compression required and faster load times. The One-X is not a PC - a beefed up PC can perform far better than a One-X BUT... *drum roll please* you will see richer texture detail and filtering ONLY if the game supports it. I bring this up because Forza has to be kept balanced out across all platforms. It seems very unlikely that you'll be seeing better looking trees, higher trackside detail and car modeling or an unlocked frame rate on the One-X.

Fact: Horizon 3 on X-One X is not 60+ fps even though it is on the PC. FM7 and only one other game are 60 fps and running at (allegedly) native 4K. Most games coming for the X-One X have not been able to hit native 4K at a locked 60 fps. They are more or less capped at 30 fps, and in most cases, checkerboarded 4K. Do you think with all this work cut out, developers will be adding higher detail and filtering, making the base versions look inferior? Seems like a really stupid marketing & business practice, if that ever happens. The games are still developed primarily for the base console and then get the additional textures (resolution upgrade not detail) for 4K.

So please stop creating confusion and false information - the One-X will not magically give you better audio or richer texture detail in first-party X-one exclusives. Although, on the subject of audio, we might expect a more advanced codec owing to the Dolby Atmos and DTS:X support, but then games need to natively support that. So far, none do.

Edited by user Friday, September 29, 2017 6:55:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#31 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 6:20:31 AM(UTC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRnhNf7LwHg
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#32 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 6:58:59 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
What happened to graphics?

A seven-year-old graphics card, that's what.

The Xbox One has 7-year old hardware in it.


Disingenuous imo, the console is 4 years old, not 7. (Yes I realise you mean the hardware was not high end even on its debut. But nor was the 360's hardware ever considered high end.)

Forza 4 came out four years after Forza 2, and each successive iteration had better graphics.


Wow I don't know how I got 7 years on that. Back to math class for me! You are correct FullNietzsche. Thanks for pointing it out.
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#33 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 7:07:23 AM(UTC)
updated first post with another track comparison : Le mans
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#34 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 7:59:32 AM(UTC)
I can't shake off the feeling that for a while dynamic weather will be cool but after that all what is left is poor textures...don't get me wrong I like the game as a whole but sometimes I do have time to look around the track and omg trees😆
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#35 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 8:03:40 AM(UTC)
Crazy how good forza 5 looked haha i honestly never realised the difference up until now


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#36 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 8:22:47 AM(UTC)
The cars are equally as bad for the AI across a variety of cars, tracks, and conditions?

How many people actually do night races or full on rain and lightning dynamic weather racing? I know I'm not a representation of the entire population but I do them in the so glad player game otherwise o avoid them like the plague.

In addition to the graphics, the rubber banding and runaway AI still exist, and F1 2017 has better AI characteristics/behavior than this game.

But I think the creator of Pokemon summed it up best. He said, and I paraphrase, that a lot of gamers would love to see the original Pokemon region story with multiple new regions buts all the Pokemon ever and that sounds like a nice idea but its not. It sounds good in theory from a gamers perspective but it would be a developmental nightmare. It would not work well and most gamers would end up disappointed and it's the developer's job to inform the gamers and make decisions so the game is pleasant and functional.

Turn10 clearly has no intention on communicating much of anything but perhaps they need to look at this. Sure you want dynamic weather and rain and day/night cycles and 24 AI and state of the art graphics but, "gamers, guess what?" It's not feasible with the current console so we cannot do this. Not if you want a game to look as good as it has in the past. Either you get 2017 graphics and 2005 options or you get 2017 options but 2005 graphics, what's more important?

It seems Forza motorsport 7 Is really a large scale advert for Microsoft to sell more Xbox ones x consoles, and sadly it works. Again I know I'm not a representation of the majority and I do have the mean s o since I mainly play Forza and can afford it, guess who's getting the co sold and a 4k TV. Congratulations, it worked. But again, representation of gamers, and as sales numbers show.... A lot of people won't do what I'm doing and sales numbers may continue to Decline and in the long run that's not a good thing either.

TL;DR: the graphics suck in Xbox one

Edited by user Friday, September 29, 2017 8:24:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#37 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 8:33:52 AM(UTC)
With Forza been on PC now; I decided to spend the money I would have done on the XoX on beefing up my PC instead. I bought the Xbox console for the xbox exclusive titles that I liked, namely Forza and Halo. Anything that comes out of Microsoft game studios is gonna be play anywhere now, so baring playing the older xbox exclusive titles; I do not really need to keep purchasing the console hardware at this point. I always got multiplats on the PC anyway, so for my future gaming needs it makes sense to skip the XoX. Also means I can enjoy the xbox games I love, and spend the money I would have on an XoX had microsoft not gone this route on a PS4 for GTsport. More racing games options is a good thing to me, and I no longer have to decide which console I want, lol.

Edited by user Friday, September 29, 2017 8:41:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#38 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 8:57:46 AM(UTC)
I'm honestly loving the game so far, but there's just moments where i take a look around and think... ugh, really?

Running on a 1080Ti and 7700k I thought this game would really push my PC quite a bit. Sadly often when i go inside the cars I see bad textures, so disappointing.
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#39 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 9:01:34 AM(UTC)
Because they absolutely had to have 4k at 60fps
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#40 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 9:10:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: nGouki Go to Quoted Post
Because they absolutely had to have 4k at 60fps


this is the point. There should be an option in the settings to choose between 4K 60fps with these textures, and 1080P 60fps with better textures and details

4K is not yet in everyone homes, and even not in technological standard, look at which price the game run on 4K...
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#41 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 9:19:43 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Fabriziooo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nGouki Go to Quoted Post
Because they absolutely had to have 4k at 60fps


this is the point. There should be an option in the settings to choose between 4K 60fps with these textures, and 1080P 60fps with better textures and details

4K is not yet in everyone homes, and even not in technological standard, look at which price the game run on 4K...


I don't know why developers jumped over 1440p to go straight to 4k. Hardware at this point is not quite capable of running 4k/60fps games with high resolution textures and models. At 1440p developers would have a resolution that looks significantly better than 1080p and wouldn't have to push twice as many pixels as a 4k resolution. Instead, we have games that are claiming to be 4k ready but the environments are questionable. I understand the dynamic aspects of the game had to be factored but at that point realize 4k shouldn't be the benchmark.
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#42 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 9:20:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Fabriziooo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nGouki Go to Quoted Post
Because they absolutely had to have 4k at 60fps


this is the point. There should be an option in the settings to choose between 4K 60fps with these textures, and 1080P 60fps with better textures and details

4K is not yet in everyone homes, and even not in technological standard, look at which price the game run on 4K...


Exactly. With the standard and most people's home and the current generation of Xbox technology it was not a good choice to make the best game possible.
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#43 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 9:30:02 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Fabriziooo Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nGouki Go to Quoted Post
Because they absolutely had to have 4k at 60fps


this is the point. There should be an option in the settings to choose between 4K 60fps with these textures, and 1080P 60fps with better textures and details

4K is not yet in everyone homes, and even not in technological standard, look at which price the game run on 4K...


Exactly. With the standard and most people's home and the current generation of Xbox technology it was not a good choice to make the best game possible.


the game isnt the best game possible. It could, if it was still in 1080P, and without these old ugly textures downgraded, only to achieve this 4K resolution that doesnt mean anything. Resolution doesnt make everything, it is only the way to show details of the game. And showing ugly tree in 4K, its not what i call a good idea

Edited by user Friday, September 29, 2017 9:31:49 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#44 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 9:54:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Fabriziooo Go to Quoted Post

the game isnt the best game possible. It could, if it was still in 1080P, and without these old ugly textures downgraded, only to achieve this 4K resolution that doesnt mean anything. Resolution doesnt make everything, it is only the way to show details of the game. And showing ugly tree in 4K, its not what i call a good idea


That's my point. They didn't make the best game possible. They made sacrifices across the board to make a game that no one can fully use until November or beyond...

They wanted all their numbers and stats to look phenomenal on paper but didn't actually stopped to see how that would turn out in the real world.

-- it works out well for them when they do demos and press releases because they bring a 4K over the top gaming rig that cost tens of thousands of dollars to put together so the media sees it and the best possible way. very few of their customers actually have a setup like that at home though.

Edited by user Friday, September 29, 2017 9:56:44 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#45 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:01:17 AM(UTC)
When trying to add dynamic weather, multiple times of day and dynamic skies to a game, while also having to still run at 1080p/60 with a full grid of 24 cars, some compromises have to be made.

For what it's worth I still think Forza Motorsport 7 looks great, and I don't mind losing a little bit of trackside decoration in order to get a better lighting model and those dynamic features we have now.
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#46 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:05:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
I don't mind losing a little bit of trackside decoration in order to get a better lighting model and those dynamic features we have now.


What about the LOAD on car models? Trackside stuff is more vital to photomode but not the race. The cars though is where the hype is. They've dumbed those down big time as well.
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#47 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:24:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
I don't mind losing a little bit of trackside decoration in order to get a better lighting model and those dynamic features we have now.


What about the LOAD on car models? Trackside stuff is more vital to photomode but not the race. The cars though is where the hype is. They've dumbed those down big time as well.


It does look great at times...but at times only...and there are the moment when fm7 looks just ugly. I was really hyped about dynamic weather but now I just don't know. Only time will tell if xbox one x can handle 4k/60fps with high quality textured and 3d models...I'm guessing it's gonna be hard. I think this whole 4k card they're playing is for younger audience (" 4K ??!! WOOW").
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#48 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:31:18 AM(UTC)
As a keen Forzatographer the background is very important to me, and lot's of other enthusiasts of the medium.
It can make a huge difference when you're looking for realism or being creative off the track. The images from the op, are surprising and a little disappointing to me.
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#49 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:32:56 AM(UTC)
i have to say that interiors details are not concerned, they even changed some textures on leather that render even better. It seems more realistic and less "plastic" than before

This is an RS5, in FM5, then FM6 and FM7 :







the only thing weird is windows, they seems to be tinted in white Oo

However exteriors of cars seems a little bit lower than FM6, the granular appearence of the paints is coarser, but this is not a big deal. Also reflects on windows and the body are more draft than before, less realistic

Edited by user Friday, September 29, 2017 10:36:29 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#50 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 10:46:25 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: FullNietzsche Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
What happened to graphics?

A seven-year-old graphics card, that's what.

The Xbox One has 7-year old hardware in it.


Disingenuous imo, the console is 4 years old, not 7. (Yes I realise you mean the hardware was not high end even on its debut. But nor was the 360's hardware ever considered high end.)

Forza 4 came out four years after Forza 2, and each successive iteration had better graphics.

I think your argument is invalid. If Forza 4 tried to push dynamic weather with rain, night and 24 cars on track, I have a feeling that it would have looked around the same as Forza motorsport 3. That's the reason track side detail has decreased but imo overall graphics has increased. Better AA and reflections. More detail in the cars and more natural lighting.
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