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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#151 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:55:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BARNYCULL Go to Quoted Post
I really enjoy tuning and do not care if previous versions of the game do not copy over properly. Nobody needs to have 700 tunes ready on day one. You can only drive one car at a time.



Is good that you do your own Tunes but what about the players that dont do there own what are they to do when they find most tunes can not be used. Tell me do you do your own designs or just sellect one from the list, Do we really need several hundred designs for each car to make them look pretty ported from the other titles. Perhaps all shareing of tunes and designs should be disabled and none should be ported over from the other titles.

Instead any Tuner or Painter can sell Tunes and designs made in FM7 instead of shareing them. But this wont happen as to many Elite painters would throw a wabbly while the Tuners just have to suck it up and redo hundreds of tunes that have had many hours of testing to get them nicely balanced.



Whether tunes port from FM6 properly or not, some people will still have tunes up, minutes after unlocking cars.

I doubt there will be an issue of non tuners not having access to tunes.

It will be good if it works properly I agree, but the world will keep turning and the tuners will keep tuning.

On your question regarding paint my answer is 'not well'. But I can still race without the latest batman paint job.
If paints do not port properly I can see a big issue for the painting community as some designs take ages to create and will take the same time to recreate.

With a tune the recreation time is limited to writing down a few numbers.

Beware downloading tunes that have been ported over and shared without testing on FM7. Plenty of tuners will do this and plenty of people will grab those tunes.

My comment about only driving one car a time is more aimed at the tuners who should test before sharing, at least until they are familiar with the differences (if any) between the games.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:53:05 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#152 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 11:50:13 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: SimRacerQ Go to Quoted Post
Homologation in this game is just a fancy way saying you now may have to upgrade or downgrade your car with more specific options to be eligible for a particular race, which is what homologation is. There is a lot of fancy writing here around this topic, but the Spec Leagues are a type of homologation where you can only race the spec version of the car. Being able to homologate at the push of a button is nothing different than down grading a car to spec to make it eligible for the Spec League races. So now FM7 may follow some of the homologation rules set my the studio or may get permission to use specific homologation setting form say IMSA for specific races in the game. That's all it is folks, I don't see what all the fuss is about this, as it's quite simple indeed and the concept did not originate with T10, homologation is a way of life for WRC, where the definition of the term is in true form.


If only it was as simple as you have out lined. But this is a major change to how forza works. If I'm understanding this correctly the class hoppers are gone. Division specific hoppers are replacing them. This is nothing like spec, spec cars can not be tuned. Homologated cars can be tuned. Most ppl here know this is nothing new in real motorsport but it's new to forza.

There should be a big fuss over this it could potentially be the solution to many issues that have restricted the game in the past. Personally I don't think it will work as they intend but it's certainly a step in the right direction


The Spec League is an example where all cars are even-footed. This is the idea of homologation, that all cars have the same PI index, but can be individually tuned. It's still good because there are some expert tuners out there who use their wizardry to out pace the best of us on track.

" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





Rank: A-Class Racing License
#153 Posted : Wednesday, September 27, 2017 9:09:37 AM(UTC)
Fast and Furious are in a Division of their own, but it looks like there are NO homologation rules in the single player campaign. Same goes for Hoonigan cars and their own Division. Needless to say you can use them in Open events.

Forza Edition cars race as if they perfectly normal cars, for example the Subaru BRZ Forza Edition races in the Sport Compact Division like the regular BRZ.

Rise of the Supercar
Tire compound Street
Tire Width 355
Power 600 HP
Class S 750

Exotic GT
Tire compound Sport
Tire width 355
Power 750 HP
Class S 800

Open Wheel Legends
Tire compound Stock
Tire width 325
Power 460 HP
Class S 780

Modern Hot Hatch
Tire compound Street
Tire width 245
Power 300 HP
Class C 500

Edited by user Saturday, September 30, 2017 7:33:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#154 Posted : Wednesday, September 27, 2017 3:45:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Fast and Furious are in a Division of their own, but it looks like there are NO homologation rules for it. Same goes for Hoonigan cars and their own Division. Needless to say you can use them in Open events.

Forza Edition cars race as if they perfectly normal cars, for example the Subaru BRZ Forza Edition races in the Sport Compact Division like the regular BRZ.

Rise of the Supercar
Tire Width 355
Power 600 HP
Class S 750

Exotic GT
Sport tires
Tire width 355
Power 750 HP
Class S 800

This is not the whole ruleset, but I least I know the PI for these:

Open Wheel Legends
Class S 780

Forza Trophy Trucks
Class B 550

Hmm. Interesting that the "Exotic GT" division is restricted to sport tires but the "Rise of the Supercar" division has no tire compound restrictions.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#155 Posted : Wednesday, September 27, 2017 10:58:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
"Rise of the Supercar" division has no tire compound restrictions.

It has, I messed up, I forgot to write Street tires.

Anyway:

Showroom Rally
Tire compound Street
Tire width 235
Power 300 HP
Class B 525

Sport Coupe
Tire compound Sport
Tire width 305
Power 550 HP
Class A 675

Sport GT
Tire compound Sport
Tire width 355
Power 650 HP
Class S 775

Sport Touring
Tire compound Sport
Tire width 325
Power 650 HP
Class A 675

Modern Off-Roaders
Tire compound Stock
Tire width 325
Power 580 HP
Class D 400

Forza Group Rally
Tire compound Sport
Tire width 255
Power 600 HP
Class R 820

Forza GT
Tire compound Race
Tire width 355
Power 600 HP
Class R 835

Formula Mazda Spec
Tire compound Race
Tire width 255
Power 180 HP
Class S 714

Forza Touring Cars
Tire compound Race
Tire width 280
Power 420 HP
Class S 750

Rebirth of Muscle
Tire compound Street
Tire width 255
Power 350 HP
Class C 450

Vintage Sport Compact
Tire compound Street
Tire width 215
Power 225 HP
Class D 400

Sport Luxury
Tire compound Street
Tire width 315
Power 600 HP
Class A 650

Early Sport Touring
Tire compound Street
Tire width 275
Power 350 HP
Class B 525

Track Toys
Tire compound Sport
Tire width 265
Power 350 HP
Class S 750

Vintage Off-roaders
Tire compound Stock
Tire width 265
Power 225 HP
Class E 300

The Birth of Grand Prix
Tire compound Stock
Tire width 215
Power 490 HP
Class A 625

Supercars Championship
Tire compound Race
Tire width 280
Power 670 HP
Class S 785

Edited by user Saturday, September 30, 2017 1:48:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#156 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:44:24 AM(UTC)
Car list videos are out, there's a bunch of cars Manteo didn't know in which division they belong to, but guessed correctly, but also a bunch he got wrong, for example several Prototypes, and the whole business of "Compact" and "Vintage" being very counterintuitive in general. Also the Reventon isn't in two divisions.

I'm surprised the Audi R8s are both in Exotic GT instead of Sport GT with other mid-engined cars. The Renault F1 car is in "Forza GP Racing."

Hot Hatch Icons
Tire compound Street
Tire width 255
Power 300 HP
Class C 450

Edited by user Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:03:12 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#157 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29:31 AM(UTC)
-

Edited by user Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:49:37 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#158 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:44:36 AM(UTC)
I think open is more in relation to car choice and build. You're not restricted to a certain division or build spec.

You probably race the same cars in the division since you're more likely to find a balanced race. I'd imagine this aspect can be patched down the line.

I'm assuming divisions with one car are due partly to balancing issues and uniqueness of the car.
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#159 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:46:49 AM(UTC)
While I don't mind T10 experimenting with a new system I'm very disappointed that they have totally removed class based races. I am not a tuner nor do I have any interest in becoming one, and I enjoy jumping in an S Class lobby and using whatever cars I like. I have a range of cars for each track which I gravitate towards (handling rating, power, awd, etc) and this will no longer be viable. I would rather be able to race a 850hp Holden Torana on Road America if I so choose, not pick a lobby based on car division and HP ceilings. Surely every division will soon have its own "leaderboard" cars and the needless segregation and dilution of lobbies will be for moot.

Yes, there are leaderboard cars which people gravitate towards on FM6, but in my experience it is usually newer/unexperienced players driving those cars. Quick guys can still win with unconventional car choices which keeps things interesting. Hopefully T10 can make the old style lobbies available at some point, but we'll see how the homologation plays out. Disappointed that I didn't find out about this before pre-ordering Ultimate as I may have thought twice.
Rank: Racing Permit
#160 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:13:03 AM(UTC)
There is a list of cars for tiers 6,7,8 to be revealed. I remember them saying about a surprise when completing the Forza Cup Series, maybe it releases more cars for those tiers
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#161 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:47:39 AM(UTC)
The quickest way to see all the homologation rules for each Division is when you choose a car to enter in an Open event. The relevant homologation rules appear on the bottom of the cars' stats. In an Open event your car races against cars from the same Division.

The alternative would be to buy and customize a car from each Division, which does work but seems way more time (and credits) consuming...

Edited by user Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:48:20 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#162 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 12:31:15 PM(UTC)
Judging from what I've seen so far, there could be one HUGE problem with homologation. If a car is already at the PI index without any upgrades, it likely will not be able to be tuned, specifically suspension.

If so, this will eliminate a large amount of vehicles that can be tuned. Tuning suspension is what makes this game fun for myself, fixing the drivability of each car. Example being the Demo Porshe 911 RS. I hate the way it drove, but being at the top of its PI would not allow for a suspension upgrade.

Hope I am wrong....
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#163 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:03:32 PM(UTC)
So, watching some youtubers playing FM7, I notices that the car PI index seems to bee off. For example, the Ferrari Testarossa is an par with the McLaren F1, the 2014 Civic SI is rated as being faster than the new Type R. What gives?
Rank: Racing Permit
#164 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:10:10 PM(UTC)
So let me get this straight. If I want to race a Mustang GT, which is already assigned to a particular division, GT Touring I think, I'm restricted to racing in ONLY that division against the other cars assigned to that division? Or can I possibly tune it to meet the specific requirements of another homologated division, like Global Touring Cars?

I like the concept, but not if cars are "trapped" in a single division, with only 5 or 6 cars to choose from.
Rank: Series Champion
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#165 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:20:06 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MARsSPEED Go to Quoted Post
Judging from what I've seen so far, there could be one HUGE problem with homologation. If a car is already at the PI index without any upgrades, it likely will not be able to be tuned, specifically suspension.

If so, this will eliminate a large amount of vehicles that can be tuned. Tuning suspension is what makes this game fun for myself, fixing the drivability of each car. Example being the Demo Porshe 911 RS. I hate the way it drove, but being at the top of its PI would not allow for a suspension upgrade.

Hope I am wrong....


Originally Posted by: vvPULSEvv Go to Quoted Post
So let me get this straight. If I want to race a Mustang GT, which is already assigned to a particular division, GT Touring I think, I'm restricted to racing in ONLY that division against the other cars assigned to that division? Or can I possibly tune it to meet the specific requirements of another homologated division, like Global Touring Cars?

I like the concept, but not if cars are "trapped" in a single division, with only 5 or 6 cars to choose from.


From what Im hearing, Both of the above are correct.
I understand what and why T10 are doing, but its going to need iteration, fast. T10's usual workflow timeline will not sit on PC.
Talking to brick walls since 2007.
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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#166 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:33:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MARsSPEED Go to Quoted Post
Judging from what I've seen so far, there could be one HUGE problem with homologation. If a car is already at the PI index without any upgrades, it likely will not be able to be tuned, specifically suspension.

If so, this will eliminate a large amount of vehicles that can be tuned. Tuning suspension is what makes this game fun for myself, fixing the drivability of each car. Example being the Demo Porshe 911 RS. I hate the way it drove, but being at the top of its PI would not allow for a suspension upgrade.

Hope I am wrong....


Originally Posted by: vvPULSEvv Go to Quoted Post
So let me get this straight. If I want to race a Mustang GT, which is already assigned to a particular division, GT Touring I think, I'm restricted to racing in ONLY that division against the other cars assigned to that division? Or can I possibly tune it to meet the specific requirements of another homologated division, like Global Touring Cars?

I like the concept, but not if cars are "trapped" in a single division, with only 5 or 6 cars to choose from.


From what Im hearing, Both of the above are correct.
I understand what and why T10 are doing, but its going to need iteration, fast. T10's usual workflow timeline will not sit on PC.


Lastly, the cars I can tune with suspensions will likely be much faster than those you cannot put suspension on. This will only create more of a leaderboard problem for each division rather than less.

T-24 hours until nuclear forum explosion.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#167 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:53:40 PM(UTC)
They should at least add homologated class racing if theyre so bent up on homologation. Same use of restrictions on compound and tire width etc but broadened slightly to cater for cross division racing. Ridiculous how a Chevelle can't run against a Camaro, RX7 FC against R32 Skyline etc. Or anywhere in between. I've seen Holden Commodores compete against Civics and Daihatsus at grassroot events and all get similar times in their class so what gives?
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#168 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:00:14 PM(UTC)
Ok I need to address this as it's frankly just mind boggling that they could screw this terribly. So I boot up Forza 7, insanely excited, and first thing I do is scroll through all the cars and check out each one. First mistake, the 2017 Bentley Continental Supersports horsepower is off by 100, showing 600, equaling the 2013 GT speed. Ok, sure a bug. Then I continue on and soon enough here comes Bmw and at the top is a Bmw M2 showing 444 horsepower (should be 365) and having an acceleration rating of 8.4 compared to the M4 GTS of 8.0 which is substantially quicker than an m2 in real life. Oh, next one, here'es the Bmw i8 showing 425hp and 500tq which in real life is 357hp and 420tq. Moving on! (I'm typing this as I see them). Ok, a 2012 Bmw m5 showing 592hp which indicates the performance package when it wasn't available in 2012, which was 560hp. Next a 2011 z4 35is showing 427hp and 447tq which is actually 335hp and around similar torque depending on overboost (370 on overboost). Next, the 2010 Bmw m6 coupe, showing 537hp and 412tq which in reality is 500hp and 383tq. Next! a 2009 Bmw m5 with the identical engine to the m6 but showing 561hp and 430tq, which as noted before is 500hp and 383tq.

OK i'm done, as I keep scrolling through, essentially 85 percent of the cars are insanely wrong in stats and performance. so i will stop the bantering. How does this even happen?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#169 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:02:38 PM(UTC)
Are these, perhaps, stats adjusted by the auto-homologation they've been going on about?
Welcome to the Hyperbolic Whine Chamber. If you cry hard enough you might get your pouter level over 9000.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#170 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:02:43 PM(UTC)
🙄 don't you know how it works yet? It's the new homologising system
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#171 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:13:49 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XXXHilux Go to Quoted Post
🙄 don't you know how it works yet? It's the new homologising system


I can't believe I'm doing this ... and don't shoot me for it ... but homologise/homologize is a different word with a different definition than homologate. I have a feeling that homologate/homologation is a term that's going to become very popular around here.

Edited by user Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:15:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
#172 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:15:33 PM(UTC)
Just wait for the truncated versions to hit the forums...
Talking to brick walls since 2007.
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Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#173 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:34:56 PM(UTC)
T10, please give an option to deactivate Homologation!! this is ruining the game for single players who just want to enjoy cars as they were meant to be. I honestly hav elost interest in this game. I am really disappointed.

No, I don't want a 400hp civic, or a 300hp E60 M5. What the heck?!
PC: i5 8600k OC'd @4.5ghz|Asus Rog Strix z370-E|MSi 1080Ti Gaming X|G.Skill Trident Z 16gb 3000mhz|500gb SSD|1TB HDD|Corsair H100i V2|Corsair Crystal 480x RGB|Dell 165hz Gsync 1440p
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#174 Posted : Thursday, September 28, 2017 11:03:52 PM(UTC)
I may have underestimated the importance of the "Stats are wrong!!!!!1" complaint from people who would want to race, or even just see, their car with bone stock specs, but even so, the situation seems consistent with my predictions.

Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Homologation truly is the elephant in the room, yet few people seem to be paying attention to this matter.

Rank: Racing Permit
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#175 Posted : Friday, September 29, 2017 1:41:50 AM(UTC)
Completely put me off buying the game. Seems pointless to offer 700 odd cars if you're just going to auto tune them all into a range of 30 or so categories, where they all basically perform the same. I can kind of appreciate the option in Multiplayer to keep things competitive, but forcing it in the single player campaign? As someone who likes to drive the cars primarily as standard, it's a killer.

The PI matching system in FH3 was fine in principal for a single player campaign, all they needed to do was fix the horribly biased PI index and it would've been great.
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