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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#126 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:46:36 AM(UTC)
I put "interesting" in quotes for the very reasons that have been mentioned in subsequent posts effect of pre-existing tunes for the other games in the series... It was a "leading" question and it certainly lead to some discussion...

I guess we will find out how tunes and tuners will work things out in a few days time...

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:48:04 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

It's not a Question of whether the Glass is 1/2 Full or 1/2 Empty - A man dying of thirst would be happy to get his hands on either...

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#127 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 10:28:05 AM(UTC)
The Homologation sounds good, it will make a change from just creating the normal top of class tunes.
Mash Tuned since 2005 | Youtube | Mixer

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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#128 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:13:59 AM(UTC)
I wonder if homologation rules could have gone differently, for example turning everything into lightweight, rollcaged, legit race cars instead of having certain car divisions have a low PI and skinny street tires.

Originally Posted by: BARNYCULL Go to Quoted Post
Homologation sounds good in theory. I like the idea of prototype lobbies limited to prototype cars (bye bye Veyron) but not sure the subdivisions are good for lobbies.

Surely it would dilute multiplayer public lobbies to the point that competitive lobbies are impossible to find. Eg. FM6 P class lobbies at the moment have approx 6 to 15 players and normally only one active lobbie. If P class or any other class is split into further divisions and restrictions we may spend half our playing time looking for lobbies with people in them.

And a class-based filtering means a greater variety cars can find a lobby, join it - and, at least on paper, compete. Whereas with divisions we will have the most populated lobbies with a handful of cars of choose from. For instance, you could have everybody on Hypercar (and you probably will...), and not caring for the other divisions. Now Hypercar isn't a particularly small division, and still you can't even fill a grid of 24 drivers with a different car for each guy.

Compare this with FH3 where I can drive pretty much anything that moves in S1 class. And I still do every Forzathon.

Yes, this homologation feature is bound to have some 'cons' to its 'pros.' Food for thought.

Originally Posted by: luckeydoug1 Go to Quoted Post
Had this information been revealed from the start, rather than a week before release, I would have had second thoughts about ordering the game.

I understand that a good number of users are looking forward to this feature, it is a deal breaker for me.

And so, it begins. This forum is going to be loads of fun when more people find out the hard way.

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:14:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#129 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:23:51 AM(UTC)
This is supposed to be about motor racing rather than messing about in the outback so it's way overdue that cars lining up on the grid are more evenly matched in
terms of specification. This much more closely mirrors Motorsport. I'm sure that you'll be able to open things up in freeplay but for career and MP something like this was essential.

Because of the number of cars in game and the different directions people will take with upgrades and tuning it'll still have planets of scope to tune for speed or handling. We just won't see the crazy extremes and the overly bizarre mix of vehicles on the grid.

I reckon it's going to make for some fun racing like we had back in FM2 and 3 (wreckers permitting).
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#130 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:34:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
..... (wreckers permitting).

Good one!


Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#131 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:37:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
This is supposed to be about motor racing rather than messing about in the outback so it's way overdue that cars lining up on the grid are more evenly matched in terms of specification. This much more closely mirrors Motorsport.

Certainly.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I'm sure that you'll be able to open things up in freeplay but for career and MP something like this was essential.

MP I understand, but career is in single player, I don't really care if another player beats drivatars with the F1 car or whatever. Should I?

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I reckon it's going to make for some fun racing like we had back in FM2 and 3 (wreckers permitting).

Now that I think about it, balanced cars means running away from wreckers could prove more difficult. But I could be wrong, though.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#132 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:12:59 PM(UTC)
More rules from Mr. Inappropriate Link Removed, this time from a video with the 1998 Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) getting a widebody kit and drifting.

Sport Compact Icons
Tire compound Street
Tire width 255
Power 275 HP
Class C 500

Also from that video: even if you choose to buy the car bone stock, the parts needed for automatic homologation will be bought anyway, so if you choose to use some of them they'll still be free of charge.

It was posted earlier but I might as well:

Sport Touring Icons
Tire compound Street
Tire width 305
Power 300 HP
Class C 500

Edited by user Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:02:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 2/2/2046 1:34:58 AM(UTC)
#133 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:47:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BARNYCULL Go to Quoted Post
I really enjoy tuning and do not care if previous versions of the game do not copy over properly. Nobody needs to have 700 tunes ready on day one. You can only drive one car at a time.



Is good that you do your own Tunes but what about the players that dont do there own what are they to do when they find most tunes can not be used. Tell me do you do your own designs or just sellect one from the list, Do we really need several hundred designs for each car to make them look pretty ported from the other titles. Perhaps all shareing of tunes and designs should be disabled and none should be ported over from the other titles.

Instead any Tuner or Painter can sell Tunes and designs made in FM7 instead of shareing them. But this wont happen as to many Elite painters would throw a wabbly while the Tuners just have to suck it up and redo hundreds of tunes that have had many hours of testing to get them nicely balanced.

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#134 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:07:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
More rules from Mr. Inappropriate Link Removed, this time from a video with the 1998 Nissan Silvia K's Aero (S14) getting a widebody kit and drifting.

Sport Compact Icons
Street Tires
Tire width (unknown, no less than 205)
Power 275 HP
Class C 500

Also from that video: even if you choose to buy the car bone stock, the parts needed for automatic homologation will be bought anyway, so if you choose to use some of them they'll still be free of charge.

It was posted earlier but I might as well:

Sport Touring Icons
Street Tires
Tire width 305
Power 300 HP
Class C 500


I don't think it'll be as restrictive as you think.

So, as has always been the case each division/homologation will be PI capped. But you can elect not to run max PI, the PI is the ceiling.

Regarding tires and power I think we'll find that the homologation will be, for instance Street/ Sport/Race or lower, width of XXX or lower.
Power will be XXXBHP or lower and should it appear weight will be XXXXlbs or higher.

If you buy or rent a car for an event the game may try to auto-upgrade but to prevent this just buy the car first then enter the event with that car.

There'll be more emphasis on the tune rather than the build so the good tuners out there can really make hay by selling them. In terms of career this may be more flexible than FM6 where there was only a choice between a handful of stock cars in many events.

Just so long as the PI cap allows some alternative approaches to setting up the car this should be great. The only risk to this working well is if the PI cap allows everything to be maxed but so long as there is still the trade off between power and handling at each PI level then I can't see any reason to be unhappy.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#135 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 11:52:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I don't think it'll be as restrictive as you think.

For the record I'm not politically opposed to homologation, I'm still trying to figure the rules out, lol.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
you can elect not to run max PI

I can, but as a rational agent I have no reason not to get as much delicious stuff as the PI lets me get away with.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
Street/ Sport/Race or lower

Current evidence says there is no "or lower" in regards to tire compound, everybody would race with the same compound.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
There'll be more emphasis on the tune rather than the build

This presupposes that these low PI caps would let you employ Race parts with their adjustable downforce, suspension, gearboxes. Signs point to this being an unaffordable luxury for many, many car divisions. The days where you were recommended to upgrade all things @ Drivetrain & Chassis seem over for many of those.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
if the PI cap allows everything to be maxed

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I can't see any reason to be unhappy.

All I'm saying is that you may not share the reasons, but when the game comes out, the drama will follow, and that no matter how you look at it, this is a radical departure as far as "the rules of the game" are concerned. And we all know how gamers react to radical changes, right?
Rank: Racing Permit
#136 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 12:59:30 AM(UTC)
I think it will definitely help the racing part of the game by making it more competitive. There should be more fairplay, and more options to use in each division. It should close a lot of loopholes that existed previously in competition.

The only thing that I don't like about it is that, for me, it removes some of the "What If" part of the game. What I mean by the What If part is that Forza has previously allowed you to do all sorts of crazy modifications to cars and then see how they perform. For instance, What if I were to buy a mid 1990's Honda Civic, convert it to real wheel drive, and turbo charge it? Could it be competitive with modern sports cars?

Or, could a 1969 Corvette ZR1 be competitive with modern sports cars if properly upgraded? With division restrictions in place, it is no longer possible to answer those questions.

The only places that it may still be possible to answer them is in races that are restricted by PI alone and not division. So, I hope at least a few of those exist.
Rank: On the Podium
#137 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 5:30:48 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I don't think it'll be as restrictive as you think.

For the record I'm not politically opposed to homologation, I'm still trying to figure the rules out, lol.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
you can elect not to run max PI

I can, but as a rational agent I have no reason not to get as much delicious stuff as the PI lets me get away with.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
Street/ Sport/Race or lower

Current evidence says there is no "or lower" in regards to tire compound, everybody would race with the same compound.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
There'll be more emphasis on the tune rather than the build

This presupposes that these low PI caps would let you employ Race parts with their adjustable downforce, suspension, gearboxes. Signs point to this being an unaffordable luxury for many, many car divisions. The days where you were recommended to upgrade all things @ Drivetrain & Chassis seem over for many of those.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
if the PI cap allows everything to be maxed

I wouldn't worry too much about that.

Originally Posted by: Dadiodude Go to Quoted Post
I can't see any reason to be unhappy.

All I'm saying is that you may not share the reasons, but when the game comes out, the drama will follow, and that no matter how you look at it, this is a radical departure as far as "the rules of the game" are concerned. And we all know how gamers react to radical changes, right?


You didn't need race parts to do very well in fm6. Common misconception that you need all of this stuff though most know that a race transmission isn't necessary.

In addition most race parts only cost a few PI. Should be a non issue for many cars.

Most racers I play with will like this change. However I know most of them will only take part in lobbies that are in classes they like. I think you'll see this more often.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#138 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 5:34:52 AM(UTC)
I welcome the homologation system. Do I think it will work the way it's intended NO. It looks like this has been introduced to do away with leaderboard cars. I personally think this will just create 30 divisions with 30 leaderboard cars compaired to 7 classes and 14 leaderboard cars that we have now (approx).

I can also see this causing major uproar if there are no class hoppers some thing I feel a bit guilty about. Myself and lots of other ppl have been callng for division specific hoppers for sometime. But I didn't intend to loose the class hoppers completely.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#139 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 6:28:04 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
You didn't need race parts to do very well in fm6.

Nope, that's not my point, my point was about the relative importance of fine tuning compared to building. No Race parts = no adjustable stuff = pretty much no tuning to begin with. Then you're stuck with, what? Tire pressure? The rules look strict, and builds a big deal. Naturally with race cars it's the opposite: tuning is everything, options to build extremely few.

Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Common misconception that you need all of this stuff though

If that's the case, all the more reason to consider builds without adjustable parts. But I still remember how once you maxed out the chassis, the oldest cars appeared to be under complete control like F1 cars. A radical change where half-a-century-old cars are reborn with light, contemporary equipment. The kind of stuff Lightning McQueen should have experimented with in Cars 3...

Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
most know that a race transmission isn't necessary.

In FH3 everybody uses AWD conversions and I couldn't help but notice that the six-speed Race gearbox helps hugely with top speed after that. AWD and short gears could be handy when playing Autocross.

Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
In addition most race parts only cost a few PI.

For the fastest cars, that is. I hope for you guys this is the true for the others, but it didn't look that way with the '65 Mustang, that cannot be near the top HP of its division because, after you change the tires, the car is already uncomfortably close to the PI limit, as it's lighter than other muscle cars in it (something something pony car). I get the feeling that if you want to race at, say, Daytona, and you can still do a few tweaks under the hood, you won't buy too many chassis Race parts.

Edited by user Monday, September 25, 2017 6:36:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
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#140 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 7:02:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
You didn't need race parts to do very well in fm6.

Nope, that's not my point, my point was about the relative importance of fine tuning compared to building. No Race parts = no adjustable stuff = pretty much no tuning to begin with. Then you're stuck with, what? Tire pressure? The rules look strict, and builds a big deal. Naturally with race cars it's the opposite: tuning is everything, options to build extremely few.

Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Common misconception that you need all of this stuff though

If that's the case, all the more reason to consider builds without adjustable parts. But I still remember how once you maxed out the chassis, the oldest cars appeared to be under complete control like F1 cars. A radical change where half-a-century-old cars are reborn with light, contemporary equipment. The kind of stuff Lightning McQueen should have experimented with in Cars 3...

Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
most know that a race transmission isn't necessary.

In FH3 everybody uses AWD conversions and I couldn't help but notice that the six-speed Race gearbox helps hugely with top speed after that. AWD and short gears could be handy when playing Autocross.

Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
In addition most race parts only cost a few PI.

For the fastest cars, that is. I hope for you guys this is the true for the others, but it didn't look that way with the '65 Mustang, that cannot be near the top HP of its division because, after you change the tires, the car is already uncomfortably close to the PI limit, as it's lighter than other muscle cars in it (something something pony car). I get the feeling that if you want to race at, say, Daytona, and you can still do a few tweaks under the hood, you won't buy too many chassis Race parts.


You cannot compare FH3 to any motorsport game in terms of how PI was calculated. It was literally the worst of any Forza game by a long shot. The only way you can is if they make the same mistake again in FM7 and you better believe the forums will explode.

But yes for 1. Build > tune for most of these most likely. It will vary significantly depending on car though. For whatever reason some cars handle great without any tuning.

2. There are exceptions. Some of the older cars handled really good from the get-go. Mercury cougar and Pontiac gto are two that come to mind. Others only needed front or rear race sway bars to get rid of over/understeer.

3. See FH3 point above. There likely won't be awd plus lambo engine swap madness. Top speed is not important in motorsport for most tracks. Acceleration is usually king.

4. Usually it's 2-4 PI to get race springs. The 65 mustang only need race sway bars. It handles pretty good but has understeer issues. 65 mustang will likely be best for grip tracks and acceleration tracks where grip cars can also do well.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#141 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 10:01:04 AM(UTC)
I'm curious how divisions like Track Toys will be balanced, where there is an absurd PI gap:

Low end - Lotus Elise 111S - C418
High end - Ariel Atom - R857

Would the Lotus be required to be upgraded all the way to S or R class with a slightly downgraded Ariel, or would we end up in B or A class with a massively downgraded Ariel losing 200-300HP? This is the type of question I think we all are wanting the answer to.

Edited by user Monday, September 25, 2017 10:02:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified


1939 Mercedes-Benz T80 (Cancelled via WWII) - 3000hp 44.5L V12 - 470mph (Projected)
Rank: Driver's License
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#142 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 10:32:41 AM(UTC)
im not sure if i would like this in career
i always tuned my cars in the max lvl of theyr class for example an A class car to A700 but not over it
also the other classes like D to D500 but not over it so no D to A or somthing like that
in forza 6 there was this problem that i had cars in the max lvl like all Forzas before but it said hay you can't race cause your car is to high upgraded
so i had to deleate my S800 tune and downgrade it to S750

and now the same thing is gonna happen and that i think is a bit sadly -.-
cause i think an Nissan GT-R Black Edition at S702 is not over tuned in the same S-Class just at max S800 with all other cars from the same class at this PI lvl or is it?

the other thing was now in FH3 wehre many cars not even reached theyr max PI lvl
cars in D-Class you had to tune all in and didn't get the D500 why? but if you installed better Tires they jumped over to C-Class not cool -.-
these problems i havn't seen in Forzas before..
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#143 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 11:23:06 AM(UTC)
Homologation in this game is just a fancy way saying you now may have to upgrade or downgrade your car with more specific options to be eligible for a particular race, which is what homologation is. There is a lot of fancy writing here around this topic, but the Spec Leagues are a type of homologation where you can only race the spec version of the car. Being able to homologate at the push of a button is nothing different than down grading a car to spec to make it eligible for the Spec League races. So now FM7 may follow some of the homologation rules set my the studio or may get permission to use specific homologation setting form say IMSA for specific races in the game. That's all it is folks, I don't see what all the fuss is about this, as it's quite simple indeed and the concept did not originate with T10, homologation is a way of life for WRC, where the definition of the term is in true form.
" If someone said to me that you can have three wishes, my first would have been to get into racing, my second to be in Formula 1, my third to drive for Ferrari. "
- Gilles Villeneuve





Rank: A-Class Racing License
#144 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 11:23:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TDM SilverArrow Go to Quoted Post
I'm curious how divisions like Track Toys will be balanced, where there is an absurd PI gap:

Low end - Lotus Elise 111S - C418
High end - Ariel Atom - R857

Would the Lotus be required to be upgraded all the way to S or R class with a slightly downgraded Ariel, or would we end up in B or A class with a massively downgraded Ariel losing 200-300HP? This is the type of question I think we all are wanting the answer to.

Most probably both, as in the Lotus is upgraded and the Ariel gets a big fat restrictor plate.

Edited by user Monday, September 25, 2017 11:27:06 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#145 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 12:09:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SimRacerQ Go to Quoted Post
Homologation in this game is just a fancy way saying you now may have to upgrade or downgrade your car with more specific options to be eligible for a particular race, which is what homologation is. There is a lot of fancy writing here around this topic, but the Spec Leagues are a type of homologation where you can only race the spec version of the car. Being able to homologate at the push of a button is nothing different than down grading a car to spec to make it eligible for the Spec League races. So now FM7 may follow some of the homologation rules set my the studio or may get permission to use specific homologation setting form say IMSA for specific races in the game. That's all it is folks, I don't see what all the fuss is about this, as it's quite simple indeed and the concept did not originate with T10, homologation is a way of life for WRC, where the definition of the term is in true form.


If only it was as simple as you have out lined. But this is a major change to how forza works. If I'm understanding this correctly the class hoppers are gone. Division specific hoppers are replacing them. This is nothing like spec, spec cars can not be tuned. Homologated cars can be tuned. Most ppl here know this is nothing new in real motorsport but it's new to forza.

There should be a big fuss over this it could potentially be the solution to many issues that have restricted the game in the past. Personally I don't think it will work as they intend but it's certainly a step in the right direction
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#146 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 3:04:43 AM(UTC)
So, after seeing all the events (won't post spoiler) it roughly seems like FM7 is following the same grouping for cars as FH3 did, and therefore, each car will have a group assigned to for example as we can see from the cups, "Modern Hot Hatch" or "Rise of the supercar" or "Sports GT Icons" etc. Now my question is, where will the Hoonigan cars and the FF8 cars fall into? Can we use them in career mode?

I get the feeling that they will be in their own unique groups, in this case "Hoonigan Edition" cars and "The Fate of the Furious Edition" cars. So if that is true...that means no event in the entire career will allow you to use/race them EXCEPT...for I assume again, the "Open" series of events for which there is only 1 in each cup. For those unfamiliar the "Open" series has been stated by devs as allowing you to "use any car you fancy, tuned at any level" for racing in them.

So my guess would be there is no "car class" restriction in these "Open" events, as listed above with some grouping examples, so we should be able use literally ANY car we want in these events...even the Hoonigan and FF8 cars, correct?

I really hope so because it sucked that in FM6 so many interesting and unique cars could not be raced in the career mode because they fell "outside" of the groupings such as FF car pack for FM6 which did not let you use ANY of those cars in career mode, and even vehicles like VW Camper couldn't be used...wut.

Has anyone seen or viewed or heard any information or clarity on this subject? I am assuming the open series will just allow anything you want, but it would be good to know for certain with some gameplay footage or information.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#147 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 5:01:12 AM(UTC)
Since it does follow how FH3 handled their events I don't see why not seeing we could use DLC cars Like the hoonigan cars in the career races on FH3.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#148 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:20:12 AM(UTC)
So, Mr. Inappropriate Link Removed got his hands on the full version of the game, earlier than early access, minor update now that I have a less of an imprecise idea on the tire width restriction for this division:

Sport Compact Icons
Tire compound Street
Tire width 255
Power 275 HP
Class C 500

Edited by user Wednesday, September 27, 2017 11:03:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#149 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 8:50:14 AM(UTC)
AR12Gaming has a article about homologation in fm7.
Rank: On the Podium
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#150 Posted : Tuesday, September 26, 2017 10:37:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GURK3NS3PP Go to Quoted Post
__________ has a article about homologation in fm7.


That article is parroting what Brian posted on Friday, no new information present.

https://www.forzamotorsp...t/en-us/news/wir_9_22_17
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