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Rank: Moderator
#101 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 10:13:43 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: David Hurt Go to Quoted Post
Two quick thoughts:
1- ManteoMax is the best.
2- More divisions with less cars in each to reduce differences. Homologation system to reduce even more the differences --> very good news


Much appreciated!

When the full game is available I'll update this thread with the Homologation rules for each division for reference, and add a tab at www.bit.ly/FM7spreadsheets for sorting them.

Rank: Racing Permit
#102 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 10:16:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Elit3 Nick Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DSR 1 2 Go to Quoted Post
Here is something interesting on super gt video he is playing in the forza gt class in the Ford gte/gtlm car at the end of video you can see (@ 8mins) the pi is the same for every car(R34). Which means that cars can be downgraded to fit the pi!

Link: https://youtu.be/khOk2J9Bhxo


Unless this is exclusive to race cars with something like larger restrictor plates.


Hasn't the ai been able to do this to some extent in Motorsport 6 and the Horizon series? Haven't there been a i driven cars with performance indices that a player would perhaps be unable to obtain?
It's not a bad thing in that context it just might be something that we are unable to do.


But the player's car is restricted too.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#103 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 11:55:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Stang616 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: VSR Rush Go to Quoted Post
Sounds interesting. I hope we can downgrade certain cars such as the FXX K or P1 GTR to allow them to compete in R class and such, that would be neat.


How would you propose downgrading them?


Some of the tuning option on certain cars had a restrictor plate option as an example only say the restrictor plate lowers the HP by 125 so you loose 40 PI. That may put it in a lower class and still let you add a few add on's till that class is maxed out still being below the original class.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#104 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:25:13 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: V6PBS UK Go to Quoted Post
I wonder what effect it will have and imported tunes from previous editions....? Could be "interesting"


Interesting I dont think so down right annoying yes as any tune I import will be usless as I have a Habbit of going max Tyre size as well as race shocks, sway bars and all them nice things that make for a nice handeling car. with decent Power but not over the top power. This could very well make a lot of tunes worthles so to all thoes Elite tuners out there looks like you will all be starting from scratch while the Painters get a free ride once again with 4 games to import from.

Perhaps all design and tune imports should be disabled so all start equal as those of us with tunes to import may find we end up with none that will be usable.

Every game in Forza has made changes to the tuning class or the PI classes. Also Forza Horizon has a much different FFB feel to it than the Forza Motorsport series in much more laid back and forgiving. I would not want a good Horizon Ford GT tune and have to use it in FM7. Tunes are hardly ever plug and play.
Take a FM6 Ford Mustang tune and port it to Forza Horizon and it will not run as good as it did in the Motorsport series and will need some adjusting on it.
Take a Forza Horizon 2 tune and port it to FM6 and it will not run as good as the Horizon series and will have yo be adjusted.
FM7 has improvements to the FFB that many have been asking for. Anytime you change something in FFB and Physics you will probably have yo adjust the settings/ tunes that were made specifically for that FFB/Physics.

I don't think the New balancing system is what made old tunes worse but rather a smaller window that they fit into. What made the old tunes worse is the changes we all asked for in the FFB/ Physics area. There are many tunes that can port over and that will still work and handle fine but have improvements that can be made on them to make them even better in FM7. This does not mean that the tunes ported over won't work well it just means they may be able to be even better.

The painters had issues to overcome on sons of the ports in the games as well. They had thier fair share of bugs to work with there.
I am not a painter and have not made many tunes so it really does not impact me here but wanted to let you know both parties have had to make changes but agree the painters have had it a bit easier but still had issues.

Rank: Driver's License
#105 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 2:39:14 PM(UTC)
I like the new homogolation, especially if we can create private lobbies with custom options.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#106 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 6:34:33 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
For starters, I noticed that if homologation rules say you have to use sport tires, you cannot use street tires (i.e. a worse compund that would let you upgrade something else).


Where did you see this? That's a little unfortunate if it's true but at least it does keep the playing field level.

I just hope you can still play single player with the stock cars from the dealer if you'd like.
Rank: Moderator
#107 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 6:43:38 PM(UTC)
The Week in Review stated:

Quote:
For example an event in the Exotic GT series might allow only “Sport” tire compounds with a maximum tire width of 355, a maximum of 750 horsepower, and a PI ceiling of 800.


That doesn't mean that every division will require sport tires; in fact, the picture in the article shows homologation rules using Street tires. We don't know every set of restrictions yet, but you shouldn't expect to use the lowest grip tire compounds in Exotic GT where the cars are over 600 horsepower. The article also makes the case for bringing in these rules because of just that "I want to use weaker grip to get a lot more power" mindset that resulted in unbalanced builds.

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 6:55:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
 1 user liked this post.
#108 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:00:32 PM(UTC)
I'll reserve judgement until more is known.

It *could* resemble some FM2 lobbies, with respect to specific build types.

@Max, are traditional Leaderboards in?
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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#109 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:01:31 PM(UTC)
I think you can downgrade to exchange out upgrades and still race as long as you don't exceed the max PI allowed.
I am pretty sure they will let you participate if you are short PI and probably do like they do in FM6 in career as well. Where they ask if you want yo upgrade to make it fair or race it as it is. Also if they let you race under max PI why would they not let you downsize the tire width? There may be some divisions with unique upgrade or downgrade restrictions to keep all cars competive but it would surprise me. I feel that the qualification max is just that a max but allows you to downgrade for lower PI.
I saw a video on you tube where they were demonstrating in the car selection menu and if a car in your garage exceeded that division it showed up as a red triangle in the categories that exceeded in and won't let you select that car. I have not watched anyone try to play with a car that is below that division not be able to play that car.
Rank: On the Podium
#110 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:06:08 PM(UTC)
So multiplayer...

Does this mean unrestricted class based lobbies are no more?

Or does the homologation thing only apply to leagues? Or will there be a handful of homologation lobbies open to all outside leagues as well?

A little confused how this will work. I like both unrestricted and the spec racing homologation provides.

As an aside, some of these spec cars will do well in the unrestricted lobbies. I've already been playing around with setting limits to PI/build with some strong results online.
Rank: On the Podium
#111 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:08:26 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
I'll reserve judgement until more is known.

It *could* resemble some FM2 lobbies, with respect to specific build types.

@Max, are traditional Leaderboards in?


This is why I'm excited. Has the potential to produce a handful of fan favorites.
Rank: Moderator
#112 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:13:21 PM(UTC)
Here's a gripe about design, though:




"Upgrades break division restrictions." Okay, and where's the name of the division? Why leave the name of the division off the screen about division details?

Also, while I'm assuming there will be divisions with weight restrictions and this particular division doesn't limit that, I'll be shocked if there's a division that has a weight distribution requirement. Yet there are plenty of real world racing series with limitations based on displacement and aspiration, but neither are indicated on this screen. Maybe after you select Toggle, but seems like it would unnecessarily split valuable information into different screens.

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:22:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
#113 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:14:37 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
So multiplayer...

Does this mean unrestricted class based lobbies are no more?

Or will there be a handful of homologation lobbies open to all outside leagues as well?



1: Unknown (as far as Im aware).
2: Brian said on Twitter yesterday there will be curated homologated lobbies. (rotated etc)

@Max, UI has never been their best. Remember, they made the brake balance fracktobunt.

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:17:09 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rank: Moderator
#114 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:21:08 PM(UTC)
I can usually make a logical devil's advocate case for decisions I don't prefer, but leaving out useful information - especially with all that empty space! - I can't defend. The screen literally says "DISPLACEMENT" at the top, but doesn't provide a number...

I haven't seen Leaderboard info yet.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 2/2/2046 1:34:58 AM(UTC)
#115 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:31:21 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
[. Anytime you change something in FFB and Physics you will probably have yo adjust the settings/ tunes that were made specifically for that FFB/Physics.

I don't think the New balancing system is what made old tunes worse but rather a smaller window that they fit into. What made the old tunes worse is the changes we all asked for in the FFB/ Physics area. There are many tunes that can port over and that will still work and handle fine but have improvements that can be made on them to make them even better in FM7.

The painters had issues to overcome on sons of the ports in the games as well. They had thier fair share of bugs to work with there.
I am not a painter and have not made many tunes so it really does not impact me here but wanted to let you know both parties have had to make changes but agree the painters have had it a bit easier but still had issues.



Only a very small percent of players use a wheel with forcefeed back the majority use a Game Pad so only a small amount of tunes for FFB make up the list of all the tunes done in the other games, but with restrictions to Tyre type, size and horse Power plus what ever other restrictions there are will Make Tunes from FM6 and FM5 invalid for other players to Download and use with out first having to be redone complety so that they quality.

I quite like the Idear as it will balance things out nicely fingers crossed But I can see a lot of elite tuners loosing years of work to this new system when they find most of there Tunes invalid for use and not just needing a minor tweek to get working in FM7
Rank: A-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 4/12/2045 3:18:22 AM(UTC)
#116 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:47:43 PM(UTC)
What exactly are these badges?
And is manufacturer affinity still in the game? I didn't see that on those 45 min gameplay videos.
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Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#117 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:13:30 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
[. Anytime you change something in FFB and Physics you will probably have yo adjust the settings/ tunes that were made specifically for that FFB/Physics.

I don't think the New balancing system is what made old tunes worse but rather a smaller window that they fit into. What made the old tunes worse is the changes we all asked for in the FFB/ Physics area. There are many tunes that can port over and that will still work and handle fine but have improvements that can be made on them to make them even better in FM7.

The painters had issues to overcome on sons of the ports in the games as well. They had thier fair share of bugs to work with there.
I am not a painter and have not made many tunes so it really does not impact me here but wanted to let you know both parties have had to make changes but agree the painters have had it a bit easier but still had issues.



Only a very small percent of players use a wheel with forcefeed back the majority use a Game Pad so only a small amount of tunes for FFB make up the list of all the tunes done in the other games, but with restrictions to Tyre type, size and horse Power plus what ever other restrictions there are will Make Tunes from FM6 and FM5 invalid for other players to Download and use with out first having to be redone complety so that they quality.

I quite like the Idear as it will balance things out nicely fingers crossed But I can see a lot of elite tuners loosing years of work to this new system when they find most of there Tunes invalid for use and not just needing a minor tweek to get working in FM7


I have to agree with you here and I do very much feel bad for the tuners!
I myself rely on you guys. I enjoy the PTG tunes but have many favorite tuners out there. You tuner guys make magic happen to cars that are really bad pre-tuneup. I for one am anxious for you guys yo get your hands on the Porsche as it will be a bit more forgiving then but I actually like having to use do much throttle control on it too.

Rank: Racing Permit
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#118 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 12:40:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
The Week in Review stated:

Quote:
For example an event in the Exotic GT series might allow only “Sport” tire compounds with a maximum tire width of 355, a maximum of 750 horsepower, and a PI ceiling of 800.


That doesn't mean that every division will require sport tires; in fact, the picture in the article shows homologation rules using Street tires. We don't know every set of restrictions yet, but you shouldn't expect to use the lowest grip tire compounds in Exotic GT where the cars are over 600 horsepower. The article also makes the case for bringing in these rules because of just that "I want to use weaker grip to get a lot more power" mindset that resulted in unbalanced builds.


I would think the horsepower ceilings would take care of that. With a horsepower ceiling of say 500 horsepower, it would not matter if you used street tires or sport tires - neither would allow you to race with 1500 horsepower or something.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#119 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:35:24 AM(UTC)
I'm actually really intrigued to see how homologation affects competitivity online. Though, I don't think it really tackles the issue of people exploiting the P.I. with upgrades like the 5.7 and Rally swaps, and exploit cars like the VW Beetle etc.

So long as these exploits continue to go unchecked, they will continue to prosper. Then you have cars that get very strict P.I. calculations like the Evo CT9A chassis and the Skyline R chassis, etcetera. The balance becomes really unfair when you look at opposite sides of the field. Fingers crossed it won't be the case anymore.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#120 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:52:01 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
For starters, I noticed that if homologation rules say you have to use sport tires, you cannot use street tires (i.e. a worse compund that would let you upgrade something else).


Where did you see this?

In a YouTube video about a Subaru BRZ being customized for drifting purposes, which forum rules forbid me from posting, if I wasn't mathematically certain the link would be deleted by a mod as soon as I post it, I'd have just linked the thing by now.

If you pay very close attention to which upgrades (or lack thereof) make the car illegal homologation-wise, you'll see what I mean.

Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
I just hope you can still play single player with the stock cars from the dealer if you'd like.

Doesn't seem likely, at least as far as the Forza Driver's Cup is concerned. Of course Free Play is a different matter.

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 1:55:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: On the Podium
#121 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:17:51 AM(UTC)
When searching for Tunes created by others, I hope there's some sort of icon or filter so that you can search for "Homologated Tunes only". Otherwise there's going to be some frustration when a player who doesn't tune finds what they think is a good setup, only to find out it's illegal after the have downloaded it.

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 9:28:57 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#122 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 7:00:15 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive;771428

[quote=PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
I just hope you can still play single player with the stock cars from the dealer if you'd like.

Doesn't seem likely, at least as far as the Forza Driver's Cup is concerned. Of course Free Play is a different matter.


Had this information been revealed from the start, rather than a week before release, I would have had second thoughts about ordering the game.

I understand that a good number of users are looking forward to this feature, it is a deal breaker for me.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#123 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:12:28 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
Q: "Will all public hoppers be based on homologation or will there still be class hoppers?"
A: "We're focusing on homologated events, though we will be adding (and, yes, removing) events based on feedback and usage numbers." - Mechberg^


What about the class hoppers i.e. E, D, C etc.? That was part of the question after all.

Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dino Dad Shadow Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone confirm or deny that homologation will be present in rivals as well?


"There will be homologated Rivals events, yes. Of course, we'll also have car-specific events too. Lots of possibilities..." - @Mechberg^


What about the normal class rivals i.e. E, D, C etc.?

I hope they haven't got rid of the normal and permanent class specific online lobbies or rivals leaderboards and replaced them with this homologation stuff. If the divisions and homologation run alongside the normal stuff then thats even better.

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:16:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#124 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:20:45 AM(UTC)
I love this, finally i can use my muscle car skills, it's so boring always having to go S class or higher
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#125 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:38:06 AM(UTC)
I really enjoy tuning and do not care if previous versions of the game do not copy over properly. Nobody needs to have 700 tunes ready on day one. You can only drive one car at a time.

Homologation sounds good in theory. I like the idea of prototype lobbies limited to prototype cars (bye bye Veyron) but not sure the subdivisions are good for lobbies.

Surely it would dilute multiplayer public lobbies to the point that competitive lobbies are impossible to find. Eg. FM6 P class lobbies at the moment have approx 6 to 15 players and normally only one active lobbie. If P class or any other class is split into further divisions and restrictions we may spend half our playing time looking for lobbies with people in them.
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