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Rank: A-Class Racing License
#76 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 11:29:27 PM(UTC)
I wonder what effect it will have and imported tunes from previous editions....? Could be "interesting"

Edited by user Friday, September 22, 2017 11:29:58 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

It's not a Question of whether the Glass is 1/2 Full or 1/2 Empty - A man dying of thirst would be happy to get his hands on either...

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#77 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 11:31:45 PM(UTC)
Known homologation rules so far:

From a certain video in which a 2013 Subaru BRZ is customized

Sport Compact
Street Tires
Tire width 255
Power 320 HP
Class B 520

From a certain video in which the beginning of the career is shown and a 1965 Ford Mustang GT is customized

Historic Road Racing
Street Tires
Tire width 265
Power 450 HP
Class C 475

Originally Posted by: VSR Rush Go to Quoted Post
Sounds interesting. I hope we can downgrade certain cars such as the FXX K or P1 GTR to allow them to compete in R class and such, that would be neat.

There's a gameplay video with the P1 GTR racing @ Prague against prototypes, instead of the usual suspects from the Modern Hypercar division.

Originally Posted by: Stang616 Go to Quoted Post
How would you propose downgrading them?

Cars can be downgraded with restrictor plates, heavier rims, worse aerodynamics-related parts, awful tires.

Edited by user Sunday, October 1, 2017 10:09:45 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#78 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:14:25 AM(UTC)
This is great news - I suspect some cars will still float to the top but it should shake things up a bit. How specific will it be? For example, would some kind of street racing class automatically exclude any racing parts or is it just PI, HP and tyres?
Rank: Driver's License
 1 user liked this post.
#79 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:21:03 AM(UTC)
Two quick thoughts:
1- ManteoMax is the best.
2- More divisions with less cars in each to reduce differences. Homologation system to reduce even more the differences --> very good news
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#80 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:33:38 AM(UTC)
If this all works as it should, I'm excited! I much prefer to get a car to work well under a set of rules rather than just the PI. If I remember correctly, Gran Turismo 2 had something similar? That was fun.

And thanks MM. Legend.
PC: i7-8700k @4.8GHz, 16GB@3600, 1080ti
Rig: Fanatec CSL-E, BMW GT2/McLaren GT3 wheels, CS shifter & handbrake; ButtKicker G2
A/V: MSI AG32CQ curved 32” 1440p 144hz; SteelSeries Arctis 7 headset

http://mixer.com/chojinzo
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#81 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:47:53 AM(UTC)
I've only one issue with this.

I'm a lazy player and generally settle for half a dozen cars spanning a couple of classes each with a couple of tunes for each class.

Looks like I'll have to find a lot more time to fiddle with cars so that I've something half competitive for each division.

Don't T10 realise I've a busy job and a lot of domestic chores - I'm going to have to can.......... (only kidding)

This should make a massive improvement to MP
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#82 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:48:40 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Catsmeat Go to Quoted Post
How specific will it be? For example, would some kind of street racing class automatically exclude any racing parts or is it just PI, HP and tyres?

For starters, I noticed that if homologation rules say you have to use sport tires, you cannot use street tires (i.e. a worse compound that would let you upgrade something else).

Once you find yourself with the right tires and not exceeding the limits for tire width and horsepower, everything else is taken care of by the Performance Index, which is the catch-all control for all upgrades, including brakes, aerodynamics, torque, weight reduction, transmission, rollcage, etc.

Some divisions would appear to have rules for weight and lateral Gs, given that they show up in the menus, but I wouldn't know which ones, I presume they're for the fastest cars.

Finding out how much PI range is available for upgrades from bone stock to best possible homologated, on each of the cars in a division, and which cars and upgrades are ultimately the best for a track is going to require A LOT of experimentation, particularly considering how similar cars are within the same division and how strict the limits can be.

Ultimately this homologation business seems a huge challenge to tuners, and a potential cause of drama on this forum as soon as noobs come to the realization that, even in single player, they can't simply take their favorite car, swap in a 1200-1500 hp V10 or V12 engine like in FH3, or upgrade every single part to race specs like some Need for Speed, and beat most of the game quickly with it. Given the etymology of 'homologation' I predict a substantial amount of angry homophobic slurs that will keep moderators busy.

Homologation truly is the elephant in the room, yet few people seem to be paying attention to this matter.

Then again you can just let the game homologate the car for you, free of charge and by pressing a single button.

Originally Posted by: J4yR3yn0ld5 Go to Quoted Post
If I remember correctly, Gran Turismo 2 had something similar? That was fun.

I remember playing many single player events with the ridiculously powerful Escudo Pikes Peak, which is precisely the kind of stuff FM7's homologation wants to prevent here.

Edited by user Sunday, October 15, 2017 4:30:18 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#83 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:54:56 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: BabySeal363 Go to Quoted Post
There's a gameplay video with the P1 GTR racing @ Prague against prototypes, instead of the usual suspects from the Modern Hypercar division.

I was really disappointed in the P1 GTR gameplay I saw as they still haven't fixed the dash or the rear wing yet. Everything else looked great though.
Rank: Racing Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#84 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 12:59:41 AM(UTC)
I posted a new thread with some questions about homologation, but I figured it would be best to just post those questions here.

So, I have two questions. The first question is, are their multiple tiers per division? For instance, let's take the example of the Ford Focus RS in the Modern Hot Hatch category. Now, a Ford Fiesta ST is also an example of a Modern Hot Hatch, but we can all agree that it is not of the same standard as the Ford Focus RS. I know that you could upgrade the Ford Fiesta ST to be competitive with the Ford Focus RS, but what I would rather see is the Ford Focus RS racing against an Audi S3 and a Golf R, while the Fiesta ST races against the Renault Clio RS 200 (and maybe the Polo GTI if it makes it into the game). If you have a Ford Fiesta ST, will you be forced to race only against cars of the level of Ford Focus RS?

Second question - are there still races that are open in terms of their division restrictions, or allow multiple divisions? Still restricted by PI of course. The reason I ask this is that the last game I played was Forza 4. In Forza 4, let's say there was a Class B Championship, I could enter by 1969 Dodge Charger R/T in it and compete against much more modern cars. I liked that. Sure, perhaps it was easy to abuse, although my intention was never to abuse the system (I only played single player), my intention was just to race the cars that I enjoyed racing. I'd be sad if I was unable to enter my 1969 Dodge Charger R/T in a general class B or class A race, or my 1980 Renault 5 Turbo in a Class B race.

Originally Posted by: J4yR3yn0ld5 Go to Quoted Post
If this all works as it should, I'm excited! I much prefer to get a car to work well under a set of rules rather than just the PI. If I remember correctly, Gran Turismo 2 had something similar? That was fun.

And thanks MM. Legend.


Gran Turismo 2 had class and horsepower restrictions. There was no performance index and no tire restriction. I suppose the horsepower restriction was the thing that kept you semi honest at least, although upgraded suspension and tires could still give you a massive advantage.

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 1:00:16 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#85 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 1:19:19 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ancalagon44 Go to Quoted Post
are their multiple tiers per division?

I'm positive the answer is no because the menus speak of only one homologation and one set of rules.

Originally Posted by: Ancalagon44 Go to Quoted Post
I know that you could upgrade the Ford Fiesta ST to be competitive with the Ford Focus RS

And that's what we're going to do. For instance in Rallycross you can see Fiestas, Focuses, Audi S3s, Polo GTIs, Golfs, etc. all racing against each other. The only difference is that I suspect Forza rules for homologated hot hatches don't involve cars that accelerate from 0 to 100 km/h under 2 seconds...

Originally Posted by: Ancalagon44 Go to Quoted Post
are there still races that are open in terms of their division restrictions, or allow multiple divisions?

This is an important question that warrants definitive answers.

Apparently there is at least one "open" event in each of the single player championships, but how open are we talking about is a different matter (i.e. I know I can choose which car to race but does it have to be homologated according to its own division?).

As for multiplayer, whether a sufficient amount of people near you give a damn about racing under homologation rules, compared to those that prefer more "open" events, whatever they might be, we will have to find out the hard way.

Then there is Rivals: do people compete according to division, class, both?

Originally Posted by: Ancalagon44 Go to Quoted Post
my intention was just to race the cars that I enjoyed racing

Having to use cars that you care little for is going to cause some drama on these forums, in fact, it already has.

Edited by user Sunday, October 1, 2017 1:04:20 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#86 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 1:21:38 AM(UTC)
This is piquing my interest. The lack of announced changes to MP was the main reason I cancelled my preorder, but I still live in hope that was the result of a lousy marketing campaign rather than a lack of improvements.

I'm still going to wait a few weeks to see what the day-1 crowd think of it though.
Rank: Racing Permit
#87 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 3:06:50 AM(UTC)
Well, this homologation system seems to be really, really great.I liked to fine-tune the car-roster I race against in Forza4, but this new system looks even better. I missed something similar from F5 and F7.

I'm sure I will have much fun tweaking my own races in Freeplay and I'm curious how they implemented the homologation into Carreer mode.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 2/2/2046 1:34:58 AM(UTC)
#88 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 5:48:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: V6PBS UK Go to Quoted Post
I wonder what effect it will have and imported tunes from previous editions....? Could be "interesting"


Interesting I dont think so down right annoying yes as any tune I import will be usless as I have a Habbit of going max Tyre size as well as race shocks, sway bars and all them nice things that make for a nice handeling car. with decent Power but not over the top power. This could very well make a lot of tunes worthles so to all thoes Elite tuners out there looks like you will all be starting from scratch while the Painters get a free ride once again with 4 games to import from.

Perhaps all design and tune imports should be disabled so all start equal as those of us with tunes to import may find we end up with none that will be usable.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#89 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:44:15 AM(UTC)
I'm all for this change as it should allow a lot more cars to be competitive. Means the F50GT, P1 GTR will hopefully now have some meaning.

My questions around this are around how this will be implemented online. So are we going to have a hopper for each division as well as the usual class hoppers? Or will we just get the usual open class hoppers with a smaller number of homologation lobbies that rotate on a weekly / monthly basis?. My suspicion is the latter given that in this week's WIR I'm sure it used a phrased like 'lobbies created by Turn 10.' Sorry I'm on my phone and it's a pain to link the article.

Hope we get some more info on this soon!
Rank: Moderator
#90 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 7:51:39 AM(UTC)
Q: "Will all public hoppers be based on homologation or will there still be class hoppers?"
A: "We're focusing on homologated events, though we will be adding (and, yes, removing) events based on feedback and usage numbers." - Mechberg^
Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#91 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:05:20 AM(UTC)
This homologation concept sounds fantactic on paper. Whether or not it will subdue the use of leaderboard cars in lobbies remains to be seen though. Hopefully it will bring vehicle performance close enough that leaderboard cars will be less advantageous overall.

I'm still hoping that we'll get true divisional leaderboards in rivals, where each division has its own times for each ribbon. As it stands in FM6, divisional leaderboards don't make much sense since slower times in different divisions are not counted. For example, it's difficult to see how fast C class muscle cars are at Bernese Alps when every other car is a Mercedes 190E.

1939 Mercedes-Benz T80 (Cancelled via WWII) - 3000hp 44.5L V12 - 470mph (Projected)
Rank: Racing Permit
#92 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:10:04 AM(UTC)
Here is something interesting on super gt video he is playing in the forza gt class in the Ford gte/gtlm car at the end of video you can see (@ 8mins) the pi is the same for every car(R34). Which means that cars can be downgraded to fit the pi!

Link: https://youtu.be/khOk2J9Bhxo
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#93 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:13:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DSR 1 2 Go to Quoted Post
Here is something interesting on super gt video he is playing in the forza gt class in the Ford gte/gtlm car at the end of video you can see (@ 8mins) the pi is the same for every car(R34). Which means that cars can be downgraded to fit the pi!

Link: https://youtu.be/khOk2J9Bhxo

Very interesting
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#94 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:19:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DSR 1 2 Go to Quoted Post
Here is something interesting on super gt video he is playing in the forza gt class in the Ford gte/gtlm car at the end of video you can see (@ 8mins) the pi is the same for every car(R34). Which means that cars can be downgraded to fit the pi!

Link: https://youtu.be/khOk2J9Bhxo


Unless this is exclusive to race cars with something like larger restrictor plates.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#95 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:20:59 AM(UTC)
This would have been nice to know before pre-ordering.

I am aware that a very big number of users are quite happy about this. This is not a good change, imho.

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 1:54:28 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License
#96 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:25:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ManteoMax Go to Quoted Post
Q: "Will all public hoppers be based on homologation or will there still be class hoppers?"
A: "We're focusing on homologated events, though we will be adding (and, yes, removing) events based on feedback and usage numbers." - Mechberg^


Thanks Max, hadn't thought to check Twitter for the answer! Don't suppose you know if the same will apply to rivals?
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#97 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:38:47 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Alan J T Go to Quoted Post


Perhaps all design and tune imports should be disabled so all start equal as those of us with tunes to import may find we end up with none that will be usable.


"Well I can't benefit from this, so no-one else should"
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#98 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 8:50:43 AM(UTC)
Can anyone confirm or deny that homologation will be present in rivals as well?
Rank: X-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#99 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 9:43:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Elit3 Nick Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DSR 1 2 Go to Quoted Post
Here is something interesting on super gt video he is playing in the forza gt class in the Ford gte/gtlm car at the end of video you can see (@ 8mins) the pi is the same for every car(R34). Which means that cars can be downgraded to fit the pi!

Link: https://youtu.be/khOk2J9Bhxo


Unless this is exclusive to race cars with something like larger restrictor plates.


Hasn't the ai been able to do this to some extent in Motorsport 6 and the Horizon series? Haven't there been a i driven cars with performance indices that a player would perhaps be unable to obtain?
It's not a bad thing in that context it just might be something that we are unable to do.
Rank: Moderator
 1 user liked this post.
#100 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 10:04:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dino Dad Shadow Go to Quoted Post
Can anyone confirm or deny that homologation will be present in rivals as well?


"There will be homologated Rivals events, yes. Of course, we'll also have car-specific events too. Lots of possibilities..." - @Mechberg^

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 10:06:30 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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