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Rank: Driver's License
#651 Posted : Thursday, March 29, 2018 11:20:57 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Shanic Oatmeme Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tonystarks11311 Go to Quoted Post
I then bought an Evo VI and found there were homologation restrictions straight away. I had about 3 PI points to play with before it exceeds the homogolation limits.

By default the cars come pre-upgraded to meet homologation specs, Remove the pre-installed parts or chose the "Buy with Stock Parts Installed" option when buying a car. You will have more PI to play with and can often get a much better car upgrading it yourself.


Doing this gives approximately 25 PI to play with. And that's without adding the necessary tyres. Not enough to add the parts required to fully tune it. I had to add a roll cage just to increase the weight.

Maybe i need to give the game a little bit more time, but it's disappointing after i've bought an Xbox basically to play these games, got Horizon 3 and loved it, then buy 7 and find that it's got this system that unnecessarily hamstrings the single player career.

All they seem to have changed since Forza 4 (the last game I owned) is adding ridiculous vehicles like trophy trucks and limousines, loot crates, mod cards and a huge variety of racing suits while removing time trials and also changing (for the worse, imo) what the core of games like Forza and GT have been since their inception.

For multiplayer it definitely has it's merits. But for single player, the PI system worked fine.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#652 Posted : Thursday, March 29, 2018 12:34:15 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: sTReetBurner09 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shanic Oatmeme Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asiangamer534 Go to Quoted Post
The P1 GTR should be in the Forza Gt division because:
1. It looks like a GT car.
2. Its made for racing.



Just because it looks like a GT car does not mean it should be grouped with the GT cars. The P1 GTR has Twice as much HP as some of the GT cars. It should be grouped in a separate division for Extreme Track Cars including things like the FXXK, AM Vulcan, and other not-road-legal extreme editions of hypercars.


Exactly. It bugs me to see a veyron, agera, laferrari, Zonda Cinque etc racing with the p1 gtr, fxx K, and one:1. Maybe they will finally get right for Forza 8... There just needs to be that separate division for purpose built track cars.


The One:1 is perfectly street legal.

However, we have five track day cars (599XX, FXX K, P1 GTR, Zonda R, Vulcan). That's more than enough for a division.

Some of them are probably done for marketing purposes. The M1 looks a lot better when pitted against an F50 than a 911 which was its true competitor. Same with the 8C Competizione dropped into the Carrera GT's division when Sport GT is a better place for it.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#653 Posted : Thursday, March 29, 2018 1:37:16 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: sTReetBurner09 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Shanic Oatmeme Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: asiangamer534 Go to Quoted Post
The P1 GTR should be in the Forza Gt division because:
1. It looks like a GT car.
2. Its made for racing.



Just because it looks like a GT car does not mean it should be grouped with the GT cars. The P1 GTR has Twice as much HP as some of the GT cars. It should be grouped in a separate division for Extreme Track Cars including things like the FXXK, AM Vulcan, and other not-road-legal extreme editions of hypercars.


Exactly. It bugs me to see a veyron, agera, laferrari, Zonda Cinque etc racing with the p1 gtr, fxx K, and one:1. Maybe they will finally get right for Forza 8... There just needs to be that separate division for purpose built track cars.


The One:1 is perfectly street legal.

However, we have five track day cars (599XX, FXX K, P1 GTR, Zonda R, Vulcan). That's more than enough for a division.

Some of them are probably done for marketing purposes. The M1 looks a lot better when pitted against an F50 than a 911 which was its true competitor. Same with the 8C Competizione dropped into the Carrera GT's division when Sport GT is a better place for it.

I figured the one:1 could be either track based or street legal. It definitely fits the track part and some tracks it runs similar times to the fxx k and p1 gtr. But you're right i guess a little playing around with the freeplay options we can get it close even if it takes 3 or 4 buckets.
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#654 Posted : Friday, April 13, 2018 9:31:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ARN SCOTTO1 Go to Quoted Post
I have been a hardcore Forza player since the original on Xbox and I have purchased the Collector or Ultimate versions of each game since for 15 years now.

While the car list and track list on FM7 is amazing, there are core components of the Forza franchise that were left out and many of us, longer-term, faster drivers are feeling betrayed.

From the beginning, the main audience for the Forza franchise were car nuts and motorsports fans. People that know cars, love to customize and spend hours tuning a single car for a single track. The PI system was created for these people and it has been a staple of the franchise from the beginning. This homologation system sucks.

I understand why they did it, but I don't agree with it. Sure, lobbies won't be dominated by Alfa 33's, BAC Mono's, Beetles, or other "leaderboard cars" anymore. Now, there are vastly MORE leaderboard cars because there will ALWAYS be come cars that dominate others especially in these Homogation groups!

One of my favorite things about A class was the variety of cars in the races. All of that is gone. We used to be able to test-drive cars from the Parts and Upgrades section, gone! This is a huge middle finger to the original core of the Forza fanbase and it's inexcusable. I totally agree that Forza should be more accessible to a larger audience and that usually means "dumbing down" the upgrade process but to make life more difficult to your core fans is short sighted and the backlash that I have heard in game chats, read in forums and social media is a direct result of it.

This will be the last FM game I will ever preorder, let alone get the Ultimate Edition and that is something that pains me very much to say. Even as I write this, I am wearing my Microsoft, Forza Motorsports 5 Jacket that I bought 4 years ago. My personal Camaro has FM valve stem caps.





Moving to the One X from the 360 Forza was one my most missed series. now outside of occasional races with friends I just dont fire it up, the fun of 1 through 4 just is not there.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#655 Posted : Sunday, April 15, 2018 9:54:11 PM(UTC)
Hi everybody,

We want to create a small file (Excel type) that can quickly identify cars in the same division. We also want to add the best times and fuel consumption by track.

Would you have a list of cars and their respective divisions (I find the car list but without the division)?

Thank you in advance for your help

Bye

[Mod Edit - thread merged. See this thread and online lists at www.manteomax.com and www.kudosprime.com - MM]

Edited by user Sunday, April 15, 2018 10:02:05 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#656 Posted : Saturday, April 21, 2018 7:20:59 PM(UTC)
I find them interesting, all these homologation complaints. I've had a taste of pure class-based racing in Horizon 3 and hated it.

Reason? Well, some categories are ruined by how the game is balanced. Racing Classic Muscle cars with a grip build is torture, even against the AI, as the Drivatars draw from the actual people's builds, so you end up with a grid full of dragsters you need to keep blocking if you want any chance to win.

In the previous system there were a lot of useless upgrades like Sport suspension that people would never use because there was always room for the adjustable coilovers. Now, not so much... You might actually want to go with those previously useless parts to free up PI for other stuff.

Some people also complain because they have to restrict the car. In some cases, the car is indeed "worsened"... In others, the ability to limit power and lower weight is a huge improvement. I took the DLC Corvette for a spin and I experienced almost no loss of top-end power with the less powerful homologation build compared to the standard one, yet handling was much better because I could lower weight.

This system needs improvement when it comes to certain aspects of it, for example the addition of a minimum weight requirement, but it'll be much better in the long run than the old system, for one reason only: standard tire compounds per division. It's not just "add wide Race tires and use the rest to bring it to A700" anymore. And I expect FM8 to come with class-based career events for those who like it, as we have class-based in the Leagues now, which means Turn 10's going back on their attempt to eliminate the old system.

If some people were "car nuts" as they put it, they'd know every racing series runs standard compounds these days, every racing series has formulae to keep competition close, and it makes no sense to bring TCR and GTE cars to the track against plain, "souped up" street cars. The old system made Forza more arcade. Strip your road Lambo all you can, you just can't compete against an actual racecar like the Ford GTLM on the track. But in Forza you could, and it made the game into a glorified Need for Speed rather than something more serious like it has always been understood by the general public.

Edited by user Saturday, April 21, 2018 7:27:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
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#657 Posted : Sunday, April 22, 2018 9:51:17 AM(UTC)
I just miss the class rivals like hell. It was the only fun thing to do long term and I loved besting (or trying to) my friends lap times. I suspect this is another victim to homologation. Of all the things gone, I miss class rivals the most.
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#658 Posted : Sunday, April 22, 2018 1:59:33 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
I find them interesting, all these homologation complaints. I've had a taste of pure class-based racing in Horizon 3 and hated it.

Reason? Well, some categories are ruined by how the game is balanced. Racing Classic Muscle cars with a grip build is torture, even against the AI, as the Drivatars draw from the actual people's builds, so you end up with a grid full of dragsters you need to keep blocking if you want any chance to win.

In the previous system there were a lot of useless upgrades like Sport suspension that people would never use because there was always room for the adjustable coilovers. Now, not so much... You might actually want to go with those previously useless parts to free up PI for other stuff.

Some people also complain because they have to restrict the car. In some cases, the car is indeed "worsened"... In others, the ability to limit power and lower weight is a huge improvement. I took the DLC Corvette for a spin and I experienced almost no loss of top-end power with the less powerful homologation build compared to the standard one, yet handling was much better because I could lower weight.

This system needs improvement when it comes to certain aspects of it, for example the addition of a minimum weight requirement, but it'll be much better in the long run than the old system, for one reason only: standard tire compounds per division. It's not just "add wide Race tires and use the rest to bring it to A700" anymore. And I expect FM8 to come with class-based career events for those who like it, as we have class-based in the Leagues now, which means Turn 10's going back on their attempt to eliminate the old system.

If some people were "car nuts" as they put it, they'd know every racing series runs standard compounds these days, every racing series has formulae to keep competition close, and it makes no sense to bring TCR and GTE cars to the track against plain, "souped up" street cars. The old system made Forza more arcade. Strip your road Lambo all you can, you just can't compete against an actual racecar like the Ford GTLM on the track. But in Forza you could, and it made the game into a glorified Need for Speed rather than something more serious like it has always been understood by the general public.


You make some good points there.

As a real racing fan but as someone who was against homologation when I first purchased the game, I have grown to understand it a bit more. I still think it is a little restrictive in single player mode and there should be more open class events but for the most part I can understand the merits to it, in single player and especially in multiplayer (despite myself not racing online.)

I still have some issues with it though. Many cars at the higher end of their divisions do not allow you to place the adjustable race parts without exceeding homologation limits. I can understand that many spec-style events do not allow you to modify the cars but plenty of events do.

We need more leaderboard sorting options. As someone who HATED seeing modified FJ Land Cruisers dominating the leaderboards in FH3 and who appreciates the change, I should be able to build a S1-class Mitsubishi Lancer time attack weapon and compare the times to other Evos. As it stands, I can compare it to cars in it's division (showroom rally) which leaves little room for modifying the Evo or non-homologated open classes. Surely adding some more sorting options for the leaderboards isn't a huge job and it adds a lot to the game for time attack style players.

Why aren't their multiple homologation options and multiple divisions for the cars? There are plenty of cars stuck in divisions that don't really suit them, ending up with them being outclassed, limited, or just not fitting in. To go back to the Evo example: It would be great to be able to use the Evo in Showroom Rally, Extreme Track Toys and one of the Touring car divisions with a separate set of homologation rules for each of them.

But yeah, all in all I think the homogolation system is for the better and in time I am hopeful will be refined more to suit the needs of all players.

Rank: Driver's Permit
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#659 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2018 2:57:44 AM(UTC)
Forza Specials group cars:

2018 Honda Odyssey E298
2016 Toyota Land Cruiser Arctic Trucks AT37 E228
2013 Cadillac XTS Limousine E276
2011 Ford SuperSportVan E254
2010 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor E276
2007 Toyota Hilux Arctic Trucks AT38 E244
2000 Plymouth Prowler C420
1993 Toyota #1 T100 Baja Truck D395
1986 Lamborghini LM 002 E284
1983 GMC Vandura G-1500 E189
1974 Holden Sandman HQ panel van E295
1970 Volkswagen #1107 Desert Dingo Racing Stock Bug E236
1962 Porsche 804 A667
1939 BMW 328 E214

If move following cars to other groups (and make it more playable)

2000 Plymouth Prowler to Sport Compact Icons
1993 Toyota #1 T100 Baja Truck to Forza Trophy Trucks
1986 Lamborghini LM 002 to Vintage Off-roaders
1974 Holden Sandman HQ panel van to Classic Street Muscle
1962 Porsche 804 to Open Wheels Legends
1939 BMW 328 to The Birth of Grand Prix

Rest of this group looks like:

2018 Honda Odyssey E298
2016 Toyota Land Cruiser Arctic Trucks AT37 E228
2013 Cadillac XTS Limousine E276
2011 Ford SuperSportVan E254
2010 Ford Crown Victoria Police Interceptor E276
2007 Toyota Hilux Arctic Trucks AT38 E244
1983 GMC Vandura G-1500 E189
1970 Volkswagen #1107 Desert Dingo Racing Stock Bug E236

and I can imagine strange :) race with all this cars together (after homologation).







Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#660 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2018 3:36:29 AM(UTC)
The Forza Specials division is literally one of my least favorite things in all of FM7. It's such a waste of space because most of the cars in it can so easily be placed in appropriate divisions.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#661 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2018 4:14:23 AM(UTC)
I agree, several cars in the Forza specials group could have been easily been in other divisions and in Horizon 3 most of them were.

It makes no sense for cars like the Prowler and Holden Sandman to have been grouped with similar cars in Horizon 3 and now completely alienated and unusable anywhere, I actually looked forward to getting the Prowler for Forzathon, now it just sits in my garage since I can't use it anywhere.....

It took maybe five minutes of thought to determine where cars should have gone instead of Forza Specials from community members, why can't T10 do it?

Edited by user Thursday, May 3, 2018 4:15:42 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#662 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2018 7:53:47 AM(UTC)
I always thought it strange that the Arctic Trucks Toyotas weren't in some kind of off road division since, you know, they were completely designed & built to go off road... 🤨
Rank: C-Class Racing License
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#663 Posted : Thursday, May 3, 2018 1:43:00 PM(UTC)
I always thought it strange that the Toyota T100 Baja Truck isn't in Forza Trophy Trucks despite it having "BAJA TRUCK" IN THE NAME!
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#664 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 9:50:45 AM(UTC)
The new DLC car the x-bow GT4 is in the forza GT division; presumably this is a mistake and it should be in the track toy division? If it’s indeed supposed to be in the Forza GT division I can’t help think it’s going to destroy the most competitive and popular division in the game. I’ve not tried the car but looking at the stats it’s probably going to be a lot quicker than the proper GT cars 😕
Rank: Racing Permit
#665 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 10:06:31 AM(UTC)
Doesn't it race in various FIA sanctioned GT class events in real life?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#666 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 10:10:52 AM(UTC)
It's a GT4 car in real life, it belongs exactly where they put it...moving along.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#667 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 10:15:16 AM(UTC)
The X-bow belongs there. It's a GT4 class car in real life, although I feel T10 should divide up the Forza GT division at this point as there's literally a ball of 7 different classes within that.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#668 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 10:21:05 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: o2R Dsquared 07 Go to Quoted Post
The new DLC car the x-bow GT4 is in the forza GT division; presumably this is a mistake and it should be in the track toy division? If it’s indeed supposed to be in the Forza GT division I can’t help think it’s going to destroy the most competitive and popular division in the game. I’ve not tried the car but looking at the stats it’s probably going to be a lot quicker than the proper GT cars 😕


It's a GT car, which actually races in GT4 races. Why should it be in Track Toys?
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#669 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 11:00:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: o2R Dsquared 07 Go to Quoted Post
The new DLC car the x-bow GT4 is in the forza GT division; presumably this is a mistake and it should be in the track toy division? If it’s indeed supposed to be in the Forza GT division I can’t help think it’s going to destroy the most competitive and popular division in the game. I’ve not tried the car but looking at the stats it’s probably going to be a lot quicker than the proper GT cars 😕

Did you even see the power figures compared to the other GT cars?
Yeah it's super lightweight, but it barely packs any power. You'll probably be godly at turns with it, but good luck on the straights.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#670 Posted : Tuesday, July 10, 2018 8:06:40 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Boxxout Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: o2R Dsquared 07 Go to Quoted Post
The new DLC car the x-bow GT4 is in the forza GT division; presumably this is a mistake and it should be in the track toy division? If it’s indeed supposed to be in the Forza GT division I can’t help think it’s going to destroy the most competitive and popular division in the game. I’ve not tried the car but looking at the stats it’s probably going to be a lot quicker than the proper GT cars 😕

Did you even see the power figures compared to the other GT cars?
Yeah it's super lightweight, but it barely packs any power. You'll probably be godly at turns with it, but good luck on the straights.



Useless at Le Mans like the Z4.

However, let's think for a moment. GT4 is like Group A of old, stripped down cars with some mods but not many. The X-Bow is quite radical for a GT4-class car. Further stripped down next to road version, carbon fiber everywhere, it even has a canopy. It's clear to me that the cars it's broken against are possibly its own brethren, not the GT3 cars.

Edited by user Tuesday, July 10, 2018 8:10:16 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#671 Posted : Wednesday, July 11, 2018 7:10:53 AM(UTC)
The case of the X-Bow GT4 goes back to the fact that the Forza GT division is far too broad. In this example, take a look at one of the X-Bow's real life competitors - the Mercedes-AMG GT4. Technically, this car is a lightly-modified GTR. If you were to replicate this car in FM7, you would take the standard GTR and presumably modify it to either the top of S-class or homologated to the Sport GT division.

Knowing this, one could argue that the X-Bow GT4 would be more competitive in the Sport GT division since 1) it has at least one real-life competitor there, and 2) its stock PI would certainly allow for it. The only thing stopping this from happening would be difference in tire compound.

1939 Mercedes-Benz T80 (Cancelled via WWII) - 3000hp 44.5L V12 - 470mph (Projected)
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#672 Posted : Thursday, July 12, 2018 8:23:49 PM(UTC)
I feared this would happen.

With these new supercars in the Top Gear Pack, I'm... not getting homologation at all anymore.

Sure, the Chiron can lose a lot of weight to fit in its division, but this only happens because it must also lose five hundred bhp. The 720S is so good in stock form that it needs way too much restriction, and the 812 Superfast becomes worse than its predecessors when restricted.

IMO the biggest bonus of homologation is standard tire compound, but, with these new cars coming in, the old restrictions are becoming annoying to deal with.

I don't know, give an extra 50 points for us to play with, eliminate the need for restrictors, move cars from one division to another... It's not fair when you can drop an M4 to lower weight and add more power than the M4 GTS. Who would pick the GTS when the M4 has better stats? lol
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#673 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 1:58:25 AM(UTC)
That 720S is crippled when in homologation. Bad handling and not fast at all.

When you run it Stock in a race without restrictions the nature of the car becomes clear.

I would rather have that they keep the divisions as in type of car and have a option to run stock or not in that division. It is now only possible in open class races.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#674 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 9:25:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: S7 EMILIO Go to Quoted Post
That 720S is crippled when in homologation. Bad handling and not fast at all.

When you run it Stock in a race without restrictions the nature of the car becomes clear.

I would rather have that they keep the divisions as in type of car and have a option to run stock or not in that division. It is now only possible in open class races.



Yeah the 720S is amazing to drive stock, but homologated it seems to be rather unstable when untuned, besides being underpowered next to the other cars.

The biggest problem with running the divisions stock is that there's imbalance between the cars in stock form due to how they were placed in the divisions themselves. For example, the 2016 Audi R8 stands no chance against the 911 GT2 RS when stock. It should've been in Sport GT but it was placed in Exotic GT to "give Audi something in that division", which is odd because the Huracán is a better car and is in Sport GT.
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#675 Posted : Friday, July 13, 2018 2:21:42 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NightDriver7800 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: S7 EMILIO Go to Quoted Post
That 720S is crippled when in homologation. Bad handling and not fast at all.

When you run it Stock in a race without restrictions the nature of the car becomes clear.

I would rather have that they keep the divisions as in type of car and have a option to run stock or not in that division. It is now only possible in open class races.



Yeah the 720S is amazing to drive stock, but homologated it seems to be rather unstable when untuned, besides being underpowered next to the other cars.

The biggest problem with running the divisions stock is that there's imbalance between the cars in stock form due to how they were placed in the divisions themselves. For example, the 2016 Audi R8 stands no chance against the 911 GT2 RS when stock. It should've been in Sport GT but it was placed in Exotic GT to "give Audi something in that division", which is odd because the Huracán is a better car and is in Sport GT.



Absolutely right! This is why I dont drive STOCK cars. You cannot compete against cars that are already upgraded. Just pick something else and I love the M4 even though you cant make it that much quicker, if I can get all my suspension done it's still fun to drive

Edited by user Friday, July 13, 2018 2:25:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track

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