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Rank: D-Class Racing License
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User is suspended until 5/20/2045 6:14:57 AM(UTC)
#576 Posted : Wednesday, December 27, 2017 3:11:35 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
With homologation the broken car is 1 of 10.

Without homologation the broken car is 1 of 700 (depending on class).


That's kind of irrelevant when only those 10 cars can be raced against each other.

Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
Which do you think it's easier to balance?


Do you really think T10 has the time to rebalance cars in between recycling the special dealer and licensing more SUVs?

When was the last time T10 has fully rebalanced certain cars?
Rank: Racing Permit
#577 Posted : Wednesday, December 27, 2017 3:17:08 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DELIM0N 007 Go to Quoted Post
The homoglation system is so good that everyone in the class C league event is using a honda civic 97

Much balance, much wow

This system only makes 1-2 cars the best, remove it from league play and make it PL based.


Originally Posted by: Morpheus 2309 Go to Quoted Post
Still is the Clio in modern hot hatch.
Now the world conquering 97 civic in icons.
So much for homoligation levelling the field😂😂


With homologation the broken car is 1 of 10.

Without homologation the broken car is 1 of 700 (depending on class).

Which do you think it's easier to balance?

Not to mention the homologation stops Super Jeeps and AWD rockets dead on their tracks. I do not want to race Jeeps on tarmac courses (which is why Forza Motorsport needs offroad tracks ASAP, but that's talk for another topic). Likewise, I do not want to make the car handle in a way I hate just for it to become competitive in its class.


It's still one op car so it doesn't matter if it's 1 of 3 or 1 of 1000 it still renders the rest of the field next to useless.

Homoligation is a half baked idea poorly implemented then left for us to beta test so T10 can read these posts to put them in the right direction.

Example.
Who's idea was it to restrict sport tyres on the track toys division?
Most people get to the track then ditch the road legal sport tyres for stickier race tyres

It's the same with most aspects of this game, so close but yet so far from being perfect.

Edited by user Wednesday, December 27, 2017 5:00:50 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Example added

Rank: C-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#578 Posted : Sunday, December 31, 2017 12:27:45 PM(UTC)
All I want for 2018, is to bring back the most essential and basic feature in a racing game. LEADERBOARDS! Come on Turn 10. This game is an utter disappointed without them. No replay-ability and incentive to tune cars.

At least provide us an explanation or an update in January. Your lack of communication and action on missing important features is depressing. Adding GoW and Halo racing suits are not what the community wants...
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#579 Posted : Sunday, December 31, 2017 2:09:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Morpheus 2309 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: NeoDragonaut Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DELIM0N 007 Go to Quoted Post
The homoglation system is so good that everyone in the class C league event is using a honda civic 97

Much balance, much wow

This system only makes 1-2 cars the best, remove it from league play and make it PL based.


Originally Posted by: Morpheus 2309 Go to Quoted Post
Still is the Clio in modern hot hatch.
Now the world conquering 97 civic in icons.
So much for homoligation levelling the field😂😂


With homologation the broken car is 1 of 10.

Without homologation the broken car is 1 of 700 (depending on class).

Which do you think it's easier to balance?

Not to mention the homologation stops Super Jeeps and AWD rockets dead on their tracks. I do not want to race Jeeps on tarmac courses (which is why Forza Motorsport needs offroad tracks ASAP, but that's talk for another topic). Likewise, I do not want to make the car handle in a way I hate just for it to become competitive in its class.


It's still one op car so it doesn't matter if it's 1 of 3 or 1 of 1000 it still renders the rest of the field next to useless.

Homoligation is a half baked idea poorly implemented then left for us to beta test so T10 can read these posts to put them in the right direction.

Example.
Who's idea was it to restrict sport tyres on the track toys division?
Most people get to the track then ditch the road legal sport tyres for stickier race tyres

It's the same with most aspects of this game, so close but yet so far from being perfect.


You sidestepped my argument. Yes there are still OP cars but they race in a limited environment against similar cars and the upgrades are limited as well. Even each track list is specific to each division. Compare to the old system when you had to balance each car that could reach the top of a certain class as well as all the parts that could be added to each one to reach this ceiling, including but not limited to: different tire compounds, the whole catalog of engine parts, forced induction, engine swaps, weight reduction, choice of tire width, etc. The task was so daunting, they didn't even bother doing it.

We currently have over 700 cars in Forza now and if you don't restrict them to each division you'll end up with a completely broken game regardless of what you do.

Furthermore, let's say I don't have a high opinion of people who believe Forza is Need for Speed and think the point of the game is to buy what they call a "[Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]" (usually a Civic... yes, a Civic Type-R being called a "[Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]", how funny), "trick" it with parts and run the whole career with it, essentially not showing any appreciation towards what the game has to offer. A variant of these people are those who only race GT3 cars in sims. I truly feel sad for them.

Edited by user Monday, January 1, 2018 11:40:22 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: B-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#580 Posted : Sunday, December 31, 2017 3:29:34 PM(UTC)
I'll start out by saying that I really like the idea of homologation. If done correctly, it's a great way to balance a field of cars relative to each other.

However, the current system leaves a lot to be desired. Some of the issues I see are that many cars could realistically compete in multiple divisions, and some cars have been shoehorned into divisions that they can't be upgraded to be competitive in. Additionally, some divisions only have one or two cars in them which makes them feel kind of wasted.

One thought I had to improve this would be to make the homologation upgrades into upgrade presets like we had in FH3. This would effectively allow each car to compete at multiple levels. The free homologation upgrade would be for the lowest division the car is eligible for, and parts for additional divisions would need to be purchased.

Also, it would be great if the blueprint system from FH3 was brought in with the ability to set custom homologation rules. Pick the valid cars for the event, and then set PI limits and any power/upgrade requirements or restrictions. For example, say you wanted to set up a race between classic muscle cars and Japanese sports cars. You would set the appropriate vehicles restrictions to classic muscle and Asian sports cars before a specific year, pick a PI of say 700 to encourage some upgrades, and restrict them to RWD and natural aspiration with street tire compound.

Another random thought: every car should have an inexpensive ECU/governor part that can be installed that allows the maximum power to be reduced using the tuning menu. Restrictor plates could be reworked to provide the same functionality. The goal is to make it easy to detune a car to meet a homologation requirement.

Edited by user Sunday, December 31, 2017 3:30:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
User is suspended until 5/20/2045 6:14:57 AM(UTC)
#581 Posted : Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:34:32 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
I'll start out by saying that I really like the idea of homologation. If done correctly, it's a great way to balance a field of cars relative to each other.

However, the current system leaves a lot to be desired. Some of the issues I see are that many cars could realistically compete in multiple divisions, and some cars have been shoehorned into divisions that they can't be upgraded to be competitive in. Additionally, some divisions only have one or two cars in them which makes them feel kind of wasted.

One thought I had to improve this would be to make the homologation upgrades into upgrade presets like we had in FH3. This would effectively allow each car to compete at multiple levels. The free homologation upgrade would be for the lowest division the car is eligible for, and parts for additional divisions would need to be purchased.


That and the fact that there's an entire Forza Throwaways division that cannot be used in Careers in any event. Just about every car in the Forza Specials division can be placed into other, useable divisions with some upgrades and tweaking.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
#582 Posted : Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:42:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: gamer1000k Go to Quoted Post
I'll start out by saying that I really like the idea of homologation. If done correctly, it's a great way to balance a field of cars relative to each other.

However, the current system leaves a lot to be desired. Some of the issues I see are that many cars could realistically compete in multiple divisions, and some cars have been shoehorned into divisions that they can't be upgraded to be competitive in. Additionally, some divisions only have one or two cars in them which makes them feel kind of wasted.

One thought I had to improve this would be to make the homologation upgrades into upgrade presets like we had in FH3. This would effectively allow each car to compete at multiple levels. The free homologation upgrade would be for the lowest division the car is eligible for, and parts for additional divisions would need to be purchased.

Also, it would be great if the blueprint system from FH3 was brought in with the ability to set custom homologation rules. Pick the valid cars for the event, and then set PI limits and any power/upgrade requirements or restrictions. For example, say you wanted to set up a race between classic muscle cars and Japanese sports cars. You would set the appropriate vehicles restrictions to classic muscle and Asian sports cars before a specific year, pick a PI of say 700 to encourage some upgrades, and restrict them to RWD and natural aspiration with street tire compound.

Another random thought: every car should have an inexpensive ECU/governor part that can be installed that allows the maximum power to be reduced using the tuning menu. Restrictor plates could be reworked to provide the same functionality. The goal is to make it easy to detune a car to meet a homologation requirement.


The Porsche 804 was included in "Forza Specials" instead of "Open Wheel Legends". I want to believe this was an honest mistake and not a deliberate choice. :(

Sure, the car wasn't competitive even against its 1962 peers, but in Forza we can mend this to an extent, can't we? I mean, any "GT Racing Reborn" car would destroy the BMW 3.0 CSL if they were specced as raced in real championships, but there it is, competing more or less equally with cars that came almost two decades later such as the IMSA RX-7.

Custom homologation can be done in Free Play but it needs to be more complex. For example, in Free Play you can race "Forza Touring Cars" while blocking mid-engined cars from competing, which rules out the Volvo S60 silhouette car. But we need additional criteria, like the ability to "duplicate" restrictions, as you mentioned in your post, allowing us to mix and match cars as we see fit.

Edited by user Sunday, December 31, 2017 4:48:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

May the forced induction be with you.

Alice >>>>>>>>>> Keira
Rank: Racing Permit
#583 Posted : Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:29:30 AM(UTC)
Hello guys!

I come across this urge to review the discussion of challenges in "FREE GAME".
We need the "FREE GAME" to be even free, as we have not yet been able to match races for car types with car classes, year of manufacture, origin country, etc.
Not to mention that even in "FREE PLAY" the annoyance of "HOMOLOGATION" still persists in making an offline lobby unfeasible.
Solve this, please!
I'm sure all Forza fans will appreciate it.

A hug!

Edited by user Wednesday, January 3, 2018 3:46:27 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#584 Posted : Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:09:19 AM(UTC)
Call me old fashioned, but I remember back in older Forza games events are laid out in a way like, "Class D Invitational", "Lancer vs. Imprezza", "Ford Mustang Club", Eight Cylinder Shootout", "Class B North American", "Ferrari 458 Italia Spec-series", "Bodystyle: Supercar". Stuff like that. I just like that style of events better. And for upgrades, there was a purpose for it. Back in Forza 2 every car is stock and if players have to compete with opponents of a higher PI and class then they have to upgrade. This was important especially during later events until Forza 4 ruined it with the auto upgrade system. Now with homologation there is little to no point with upgrades at all since every car is pre-upgraded to begin with, and trying to upgrade a car further than it is will bump it out of it's intended class and division.
Rank: Racing Permit
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#585 Posted : Wednesday, January 3, 2018 10:33:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MMMappy Charleo Go to Quoted Post
Now with homologation there is little to no point with upgrades at all since every car is pre-upgraded to begin with, and trying to upgrade a car further than it is will bump it out of it's intended class and division.


Well not really. That's what I thought until just yesterday, when I read the Year in Review article and saw the bit about Homologation being here to stay, and finally read the page they posted months ago explaining in detail how it actually works (I wonder how many of the people complaining about Homologation don't fully understand it as well?).

The Pre upgrade thing is essentially identical to the feature previous FM games had where they would auto mod your car to the PI class you wanted to race in. Except now instead of modding to just PI, its also respecting limits for tire type, width and HP. The auto upgrade system is pretty decent, so far playing through career mode I've only run into one car that was really poorly modded and un-competitive. But I didn't realize at the time that I was totally free to swap around some mods to free up some PI points to fix the car's over powered for its tires issue, I had just been racing what the auto upgrade system was giving me. I'm sure there's lots of cars whose biggest issue is the tire width or compound limit, but we still have a lot of flexibility in terms of what mods we run with to fit into the Homologation categories (I think the name Homologation might have been a bad choice, most people think of street car production requirements imposed on manufacturers for racing series when they hear that).

While it is somewhat frustrating that we no longer have the ability to take our favourite car and build it for any division we want anymore, that is something that FM6 brought into the series. I actually think the whole Homologation system introduced in 7 is a big improvement on that, now that I understand it better.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#586 Posted : Wednesday, January 3, 2018 11:23:46 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: SupraFiend Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MMMappy Charleo Go to Quoted Post
Now with homologation there is little to no point with upgrades at all since every car is pre-upgraded to begin with, and trying to upgrade a car further than it is will bump it out of it's intended class and division.


Well not really. That's what I thought until just yesterday, when I read the Year in Review article and saw the bit about Homologation being here to stay, and finally read the page they posted months ago explaining in detail how it actually works (I wonder how many of the people complaining about Homologation don't fully understand it as well?).

The Pre upgrade thing is essentially identical to the feature previous FM games had where they would auto mod your car to the PI class you wanted to race in. Except now instead of modding to just PI, its also respecting limits for tire type, width and HP. The auto upgrade system is pretty decent, so far playing through career mode I've only run into one car that was really poorly modded and un-competitive. But I didn't realize at the time that I was totally free to swap around some mods to free up some PI points to fix the car's over powered for its tires issue, I had just been racing what the auto upgrade system was giving me. I'm sure there's lots of cars whose biggest issue is the tire width or compound limit, but we still have a lot of flexibility in terms of what mods we run with to fit into the Homologation categories (I think the name Homologation might have been a bad choice, most people think of street car production requirements imposed on manufacturers for racing series when they hear that).

While it is somewhat frustrating that we no longer have the ability to take our favourite car and build it for any division we want anymore, that is something that FM6 brought into the series. I actually think the whole Homologation system introduced in 7 is a big improvement on that, now that I understand it better.



At first I didnt like it but that was in career mode only...in online play its not that bad. I think those who still dont like it after all this time probably dont wanna take the time to install and take off parts until you get things to fit in the category. It can be tedious sometimes but its grown on me. Tires are really the only thing you cant compromise on, everything else is still open
Forza junkie since FM2. Horizons are the break I need from the track. 🏁🏁

FH4 and I HAD a volatile love/hate relationship 😑

Hopefully FH5 will treat me better 😬😬
Rank: D-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#587 Posted : Wednesday, January 3, 2018 9:28:06 PM(UTC)
Homologation is a pain in career mode and makes me want to just get the races done with.
In the lower classes, there's practically no parts to change and such limited tuning options.
Doesn't help that AIs just out accelerates you on higher difficulty.
You can only extend the laps and hope to take them on bends or watch the gap widen.
Rank: Racing Permit
#588 Posted : Thursday, January 4, 2018 3:55:23 PM(UTC)
Its been a long time since there was a FM game where I could just leave the difficulty level at one setting and play through campaign. [Mod Edit - Abbreviated profanity, profanity and profanity that is disguised but still alludes to the words are not permitted - D]. I don't think I've been able to leave it at one setting since FM3.

At the expert setting I rarely find myself at a HP disadvantage with the homologated cars, though there is certainly still some variance in max perf potential between the cars you can select from in a division. Maybe you've just selected slow cars. Actually on the oval track racing I've found the opposite, my car seems to overtake everyone else. Thats were I've had push up the difficulty to Pro to get some challenge.

Edited by user Friday, January 5, 2018 12:16:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's License
#589 Posted : Thursday, January 4, 2018 8:09:37 PM(UTC)
A system like NASA's Time Trials works... the system in Forza completely removes us from building a car with these restricted set parts. Give us class restrictions and let us build a car that fits into those class restrictions. For GT and Prototypes yeah you can't buy parts to enhance them, but for the regular cars a system used in grassroots racing from an established organization would be more appropriate. They need two different systems for real race cars and street cars.
Current and passed toys- 1975 Datsun 280Z, 1993 Nissan 300ZX Twin Turbo, 2004 MINI Cooper S JCW and 2008 BMW E90 M3
Rank: Racing Permit
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#590 Posted : Friday, January 5, 2018 10:42:30 AM(UTC)
Actually the homologation limits in FM7 are awfully close to how the Sports Car Association of America defines their Street Touring classes in Autocross events across North America. They restrict you to streetable tires (not pure race compounds, must be dot legal), set a max tire width per class, and then restrict all cars to different classes based on the chassis (which takes into account power to weight ratio, and body style).
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#591 Posted : Friday, January 5, 2018 10:46:15 AM(UTC)
The homologation system leads to things like the Jeep Cherokee Trackhawk being worse than its SRT counterpart making this DLC car even more crappy.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#592 Posted : Friday, January 5, 2018 11:50:36 AM(UTC)
For me, homologation is a good thing. I race with no assists and a homemade racing cockpit with a wheel, pedals, shifter. Having other drivers (wheel or controller) so close in builds makes the racing far more competitive. I have just as much fun chasing the guy in 10th a few laps as I do winning the race. When I use a controller in a class based lobby, it becomes very apparent that a "cheese tune" car with a controller can easily dominate wheel users. But tight racing in a somewhat sim environment? That gets my rocks off.
Rank: Racing Permit
#593 Posted : Saturday, January 6, 2018 1:45:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MMMappy Charleo Go to Quoted Post
Call me old fashioned, but I remember back in older Forza games events are laid out in a way like, "Class D Invitational", "Lancer vs. Imprezza", "Ford Mustang Club", Eight Cylinder Shootout", "Class B North American", "Ferrari 458 Italia Spec-series", "Bodystyle: Supercar". Stuff like that. I just like that style of events better. And for upgrades, there was a purpose for it. Back in Forza 2 every car is stock and if players have to compete with opponents of a higher PI and class then they have to upgrade. This was important especially during later events until Forza 4 ruined it with the auto upgrade system. Now with homologation there is little to no point with upgrades at all since every car is pre-upgraded to begin with, and trying to upgrade a car further than it is will bump it out of it's intended class and division.



The reason that Turn 10 canned things like that and introduced homologation is because a single first generation Ford Mustang (ie from the late 1960s) would be all you needed to enter Class D Invitational, Ford Mustang Club, Eight Cylinder Shootout and Class B North American. If they allowed that, then there is not that much of an incentive for you to collect more cars. And if you aren't incentivized to collect more cars, you aren't incentivized to buy loot crates either.

Everything depends on the loot crates.
Rank: On the Podium
#594 Posted : Saturday, January 6, 2018 8:14:06 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ancalagon44 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: MMMappy Charleo Go to Quoted Post
Call me old fashioned, but I remember back in older Forza games events are laid out in a way like, "Class D Invitational", "Lancer vs. Imprezza", "Ford Mustang Club", Eight Cylinder Shootout", "Class B North American", "Ferrari 458 Italia Spec-series", "Bodystyle: Supercar". Stuff like that. I just like that style of events better. And for upgrades, there was a purpose for it. Back in Forza 2 every car is stock and if players have to compete with opponents of a higher PI and class then they have to upgrade. This was important especially during later events until Forza 4 ruined it with the auto upgrade system. Now with homologation there is little to no point with upgrades at all since every car is pre-upgraded to begin with, and trying to upgrade a car further than it is will bump it out of it's intended class and division.



The reason that Turn 10 canned things like that and introduced homologation is because a single first generation Ford Mustang (ie from the late 1960s) would be all you needed to enter Class D Invitational, Ford Mustang Club, Eight Cylinder Shootout and Class B North American. If they allowed that, then there is not that much of an incentive for you to collect more cars. And if you aren't incentivized to collect more cars, you aren't incentivized to buy loot crates either.

Everything depends on the loot crates.


Prize crates do not contain exclusive cars, and if you are looking for a specific (non-exclusive) car it is always much more efficient to simply save up and buy the car directly.
Rank: Driver's License
#595 Posted : Saturday, January 6, 2018 5:16:04 PM(UTC)
whats the point of buying the 1351hp koeinsegg when it gets BOP'd down to under 900hp? same with the ford gte there is 3 different levels of restrictors and you can only use the slowest one in career.
Rank: Driver's Permit
 1 user liked this post.
#596 Posted : Monday, January 8, 2018 6:05:09 AM(UTC)
Why is homologation still a thing, this is really surprising because t10 effectively ruined their game... Seriously t10 where are the guys who worked on forza 4, we need them back, cause y'all ruined this one...to the point I don't even play it...drift mode..oh use stock cars...drifting stock cars isnt fun t10.....oh hey I can make my FD rx7 look super cool, oh no I cant use it in anything. oh and hey why not have rivals pay nothing....remember bounties, remember when beating rivals made you money?

and get rid of the god damn window reflections, I've never seen my hands in the windshield

[Mod Edit - thread merged - MM]

Edited by user Monday, January 8, 2018 6:25:03 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#597 Posted : Tuesday, January 9, 2018 7:24:59 PM(UTC)
NOTE: I'm talking about Single player chanpionship only! (I never play online.)

I just hate being told what to do!

In previous Forza titles there would be a warning about "not being competetive" but you could carry on.

Why am I FORCED to homologate my beautiful stock car!?!

If I am going to be at a disadvantage... GOOD! Leave that challange to me.
Rank: Racing Permit
#598 Posted : Thursday, January 11, 2018 4:30:07 AM(UTC)
Hello guys!

About homologation:

- Yesterday I chose to play in the "FREE PLAY" mode of the FM6 than to continue playing on FM7, believe me.

- FM6's "FREE PLAY" mode is simpler, but it does not restrict any car, so I can race with cars from different classes in the same race and this makes the game much more exciting.

- FM7's "FREE PLAY" mode is much more detailed (it seems to be a great evolution), but ugly when it comes to riding the races because of "HOMOLOGATION" that prevents us from making the combinations we want to make. And that's very, very frustrating in FM7.

- I'm optimistic and I know it's not so difficult to adjust the "FREE PLAY" mode so that there is more flexibility in setting up our races.

SOLUTION:

"FREE PLAY" mode without "HOMOLOGATION" = FUN!

A hug!
Rank: On the Podium
#599 Posted : Thursday, January 11, 2018 4:37:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Techlology Go to Quoted Post

When was the last time T10 has fully rebalanced certain cars?

November 2015.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#600 Posted : Thursday, January 11, 2018 6:55:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Power strocker Go to Quoted Post
Hello guys!

About homologation:
.....


You can still have non-homologated free play races in FM7. In advanced settings select as division 'any', below that you can also select the class if you're looking for a class based race, or leave it at 'any' for a completely random field of AI.

Edited by user Thursday, January 11, 2018 6:58:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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