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Rank: Driver's License
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#51 Posted : Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:41:18 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: HeliosT10 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Good news everyone, it'll only be available in Beginner Hoppers.

https://twitter.com/Bill...tatus/910527948473516032


We will be disabling this assist for rivals events and some multiplayer hoppers. Beginner hoppers will allow this, but the more common hoppers will not. This is not a cheat, this is an assist to help new players.


So, what you're really saying is that this was added to the game to get the Mario Kart level players to buy this game? Please don't insult us by saying its not a cheat. Everyone knows that it will be used exactly to do that. That someone from Forza would actually say its not a cheat is mind boggling to me. The corner cutters are just licking their chops waiting for this. So, give an assist to the group of players that hurt your game more than anyone, that makes perfect sense...

It has no place in the game at all. In all honesty, I've been undecided as to whether I was going to even bother with FM7. This assist pretty much makes my decision for me. The only way I'll buy FM7 is if PC2 and GTSport are both flops.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#52 Posted : Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:52:37 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: TooOldToBeFast Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HeliosT10 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Good news everyone, it'll only be available in Beginner Hoppers.

https://twitter.com/Bill...tatus/910527948473516032


We will be disabling this assist for rivals events and some multiplayer hoppers. Beginner hoppers will allow this, but the more common hoppers will not. This is not a cheat, this is an assist to help new players.


So, what you're really saying is that this was added to the game to get the Mario Kart level players to buy this game? Please don't insult us by saying its not a cheat. Everyone knows that it will be used exactly to do that. That someone from Forza would actually say its not a cheat is mind boggling to me. The corner cutters are just licking their chops waiting for this. So, give an assist to the group of players that hurt your game more than anyone, that makes perfect sense...

It has no place in the game at all. In all honesty, I've been undecided as to whether I was going to even bother with FM7. This assist pretty much makes my decision for me. The only way I'll buy FM7 is if PC2 and GTSport are both flops.


"... this was added to the game to get the Mario Kart level players to buy this game?"

Sounds like exactly that. Same thing when assisted steering and assisted braking were added. Big whoop.

"Please don't insult us by saying its not a cheat."

Disabled for Rivals and the common (non-beginner) hoppers. How are you going to cheat with it?

[edit] Sorry... perhaps you spend most of your time in the beginner hoppers? [/edit]
.

Edited by user Thursday, September 21, 2017 10:58:25 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mod edit - WSD - max 1 line of text with sig --- Please don't use your sig to attack other forum members - Duey
Rank: On the Podium
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#53 Posted : Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:36:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Don Ente Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TooOldToBeFast Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: HeliosT10 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PJTierney Go to Quoted Post
Good news everyone, it'll only be available in Beginner Hoppers.

https://twitter.com/Bill...tatus/910527948473516032


We will be disabling this assist for rivals events and some multiplayer hoppers. Beginner hoppers will allow this, but the more common hoppers will not. This is not a cheat, this is an assist to help new players.


So, what you're really saying is that this was added to the game to get the Mario Kart level players to buy this game? Please don't insult us by saying its not a cheat. Everyone knows that it will be used exactly to do that. That someone from Forza would actually say its not a cheat is mind boggling to me. The corner cutters are just licking their chops waiting for this. So, give an assist to the group of players that hurt your game more than anyone, that makes perfect sense...

It has no place in the game at all. In all honesty, I've been undecided as to whether I was going to even bother with FM7. This assist pretty much makes my decision for me. The only way I'll buy FM7 is if PC2 and GTSport are both flops.


"... this was added to the game to get the Mario Kart level players to buy this game?"

Sounds like exactly that. Same thing when assisted steering and assisted braking were added. Big whoop.

"Please don't insult us by saying its not a cheat."

Disabled for Rivals and the common (non-beginner) hoppers. How are you going to cheat with it?

[edit] Sorry... perhaps you spend most of your time in the beginner hoppers? [/edit]
.


Holy carp! Don, a name I haven't seen around here in a long time! Good to see you again!

And exactly, I don't see how an optional assist is a cheat by any means

Verrückter Schakal | ­ ­ The Höllenhund
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#54 Posted : Thursday, September 21, 2017 4:56:27 PM(UTC)
I don't see why having it is good or bad. It would seem to me though that it would never get turned off because it doesn't put a player at a disadvantage once they have grown out of it. Assisted steering and braking were considerably slower than non assisted, the same with ABS and automatic trans. (STM abd TCS are sometimes helpful) Those assists lent themselves well to teaching a player how to drive without crashing and honestly assisted steering would do a better job than friction assist anyway in keeping a player on the track.

The friction assist seems to have no Downside from what I've seen here. It pretty much takes away an element of the game that adds a realistic challenge but doesn't slow you down for doing so. To that end I don't feel like it will be a teaching tool, it will be a permanent crutch.

The point of "beginner" level assists is to provide them with an option that keeps them safe but also shows them where they can improve and eventually not need the help anymore. Like training wheels on a bicycle. Eventually you want to go faster so the training wheels disappear but the balance and experience you gained with them on makes the task of riding a bike seem easy and familiar.

The friction assist is a double whammy for beginners, it lets you get away with putting a wheel off the track or braking through a puddle while turning, and once you turn it off you will be in for a big surprise. That is not training that is just hiding the difficulty underneath some fluffy pillows so that the real challenge is completely unknown to the player.

You guys need to give Mario kart more credit though, I learned how to not go off the track in that game because it punishes players harder than most other games I can think of for off road excursions. plus I learned the basics of drifting when I was younger in Mario kart 64. That has been invaluable in my Forza career. At least I don't have to worry about Red shells and being shrunk in Forza.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#55 Posted : Thursday, September 21, 2017 9:56:25 PM(UTC)
How can anyone watch nightmares video and say that friction assit isn't and won't be used for cheating. Further more I ask again what are beginner hoppers. T10 have already said multiplayer is for the most part unchanged. To me that means all hoppers are beginner hoppers and anyone who's played the standard hoppers would agree that's a fair description.

I can tell you this for sure traction assit is nothing like assited steering or breaking, these assits slow you down and rightly so. If friction assit is enabled in the hoppers it will most certainly be a complete disaster, it will ruin any serious players experince online
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#56 Posted : Thursday, September 21, 2017 11:00:23 PM(UTC)
What is the problem with that feature. In singleplayer you dont have to use it, and people who using it... not your problem. In multiplayer it will be only available in beginner Lobbys. And there will be 2 Hoppers for Beginners, Basics lobby and the C-Class Starter lobby. WHATS THE PROBLEM WITH THAT?!?
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#57 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 1:39:50 AM(UTC)
As usual the problem is lack of info, speculation and contradiction of the facts from t10. I hope it is only restricted to the 2 beginner hoppers, if that's the case then I will be happy but forgive me for being sceptical. Who do u belive Dan or bill?
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#58 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 3:04:30 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
As usual the problem is lack of info, speculation and contradiction of the facts from t10. I hope it is only restricted to the 2 beginner hoppers, if that's the case then I will be happy but forgive me for being sceptical. Who do u belive Dan or bill?


With you on this TYSKIE. Seems to have been a little bit of misinformation and misdirection here and there. Unfortunately those of us that have pre-ordered will only truly find out next week.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#59 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 3:14:41 AM(UTC)
Did you read the first post? Do that please!!!
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#60 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 3:29:00 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GURK3NS3PP Go to Quoted Post
Did you read the first post? Do that please!!!


Yes, indeed i did. But, based on my own experience, i will only believe it with my own eyes once i see it.

You believe every word that has been said? Like i stated ... contradictory or vague statements from T10 themselves only serve to muddy the waters not clarify them. Bill says its only in beginner lobbies. Thats fine and brilliant. Just need them to clarify what they mean by beginner lobbies, are the lower league tiers classed as beginner?

Not trying to be awkward myself, i want Forza 7 to succeed as much as anyone. Its not exactly as i would like it, but thats life. You dont always get everything you want. Perhaps i am being overly cautious of trusting everything that has been said, implied or speculated, but thats only to soften the potential disappointment of Forza 7 not being a game i really enjoy.

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 5:39:45 AM(UTC)
Not only Bill said that.
Rank: On the Podium
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#62 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 6:09:16 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: R5R Indy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
As usual the problem is lack of info, speculation and contradiction of the facts from t10. I hope it is only restricted to the 2 beginner hoppers, if that's the case then I will be happy but forgive me for being sceptical. Who do u belive Dan or bill?


With you on this TYSKIE. Seems to have been a little bit of misinformation and misdirection here and there. Unfortunately those of us that have pre-ordered will only truly find out next week.



True, but 2 T10 employees have confirmed that it won't be allowed in the non-beginner multiplayer modes.

I would lean towards Bill over Dan since Bill is really the person over FM7. Dan seems too high a level these days.

Only way to know is try it out in rivals and hoppers to ensure it can't br used.

Overall I'm no too worried about it since T10 stepped in reassure us.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#63 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 6:35:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: R5R Indy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
As usual the problem is lack of info, speculation and contradiction of the facts from t10. I hope it is only restricted to the 2 beginner hoppers, if that's the case then I will be happy but forgive me for being sceptical. Who do u belive Dan or bill?


With you on this TYSKIE. Seems to have been a little bit of misinformation and misdirection here and there. Unfortunately those of us that have pre-ordered will only truly find out next week.



True, but 2 T10 employees have confirmed that it won't be allowed in the non-beginner multiplayer modes.

I would lean towards Bill over Dan since Bill is really the person over FM7. Dan seems too high a level these days.

Only way to know is try it out in rivals and hoppers to ensure it can't br used.

Overall I'm no too worried about it since T10 stepped in reassure us.


Yep like you say Swerve 2 T10 officials have made statements to clarify this, and both statements say the same thing.
My original post has updates on it now and has been for not to far off 48hrs.
At this point I would be happy to accept what we have now been told.
Rank: R-Class Racing License
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#64 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 11:24:31 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
How can anyone watch nightmares video and say that friction assit isn't and won't be used for cheating

"We will be disabling this assist for rivals events ..."

OK, so, you can't use it to cheat in rivals.

"... and some multiplayer hoppers."

If the hopper you join allows it, use it. If the hopper you join doesn't allow it, you can't use it.

So ---- just exactly how do you plan to use Friction Assist to cheat?

.
Mod edit - WSD - max 1 line of text with sig --- Please don't use your sig to attack other forum members - Duey
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#65 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 11:57:12 AM(UTC)
I agree Don....the rules are the same for everyone who plays in that hopper which assists you turn on or off in that hopper is up to you but the options are the same for everybody....that's not cheating!
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 12:19:01 PM(UTC)
It's not cheating but it does cheapen gameplay, in that sense it reminds me of auto rotation in the battlefield series. Those who aren't familiar with what i'm talking about, it's an assist that snaps your crosshairs to the center of the enemy's chest when you aim down sights in their general direction. Pretty much negating the skill of knowing how to acquire targets, all in the name of making the snowflake generation of gamers happy. Sad really..

Edited by user Friday, September 22, 2017 2:24:44 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
#67 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 12:22:58 PM(UTC)
You dont have to use it!!! Its for kids or people with disability!!!
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#68 Posted : Friday, September 22, 2017 1:52:50 PM(UTC)
Ok. Does anyone consider cutting chicanes and corners cheating? Surely an assist that makes it easier to control while doing so is perhaps a touch dodgy.

But of course nobody would ever think of using it just to win a race no matter the cost. Just like those poor souls who cant quite keep their cars on the Yas Marina track.
Rank: Driver's License
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#69 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 9:45:10 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GTR TYSKlE Go to Quoted Post
As usual the problem is lack of info, speculation and contradiction of the facts from t10. I hope it is only restricted to the 2 beginner hoppers, if that's the case then I will be happy but forgive me for being sceptical. Who do u belive Dan or bill?


That is exactly my thoughts on this too. I am very skeptical as to whether or not it will be restricted as they say. I'm relatively new to Forza and would like to continue playing it. However, I feel there are already too many issues that ruin public lobbies as is. TCS is an assist that I feel should only be used by beginners, yet its widespread and many of the top players use it. You have Jeeps, Broncos, and VW buses that are just a joke in the lobbies now. Giving these vehicles an assist that would limit their friction would make it crazy and even more unrealistic than it already is. If its limited to just a small number of hoppers, then I'll shut up and happily move on. However, "beginner lobbies" can be interpreted many ways. Until this is clarified, we don't really know.

Even if it is limited, I still really don't like it. Its not realistic and has no place in the game. There are tons of cheaters who play this game and they will abuse this assists every chance they get. How about the person that is a beginner and wants to learn to play the game properly? So, he or she (my youngest son falls into this category), goes into the beginner lobbies to try to work on their skills. They will be bombarded by people using this assist to cut every corner in the game. These same players already do this, but lose time on most tracks because of friction. You'll have VW buses with only 3.2 handling running Silverstone in the rain and making it miserable for anyone that wants to play the game properly. Its not a matter of joining the cheaters and turning the assist on, it just shouldn't be there at all.

Forza is a great game. However, people who play other games regularly will all tell you that the biggest problem with Forza is the insanity that can be online play. Forza really needed to do something to clean this up, this assist is a major step in the wrong direction.

Rank: X-Class Racing License
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#70 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 9:52:06 AM(UTC)
OP:
Those are some very interesting results from the test you did. I'm curious, and this is primarily for single player, if the friction assist affects only you or if it also affects the AI?

From the description it doesn't seem to be something that affects your car specifically such as stability control traction control or abs. It seems more like an environment modifier so I'm curious if it only affects the player.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Saturday, September 23, 2017 10:59:50 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PPiDrive Go to Quoted Post
OP:
Those are some very interesting results from the test you did. I'm curious, and this is primarily for single player, if the friction assist affects only you or if it also affects the AI?

From the description it doesn't seem to be something that affects your car specifically such as stability control traction control or abs. It seems more like an environment modifier so I'm curious if it only affects the player.


That's an interesting question and not one I think I can fully answer. The friction assist did not appear to hinder or enhance any of the other assists in testing and by the same token did not appear to change the handling characteristics of the car.
Which would leave me inclined to align with your thought of it being like an environmental modifier.
Ie negates all pre sets for surfaces and makes them all the same, as it's seems all surfaces give the same or very similar grip levels with the friction assist on.

As for the AI, I simply don't know, more testing would need to be done and may be harder to gauge. Different difficulty settings would factor. The only thing I can say is that when I ran the friction assist off, the AI weren't faster than me and finished along way behind. But this could just be my skill level.

Edited by user Saturday, September 23, 2017 11:00:51 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#72 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 5:52:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Don Ente Go to Quoted Post



"... this was added to the game to get the Mario Kart level players to buy this game?"

Sounds like exactly that. Same thing when assisted steering and assisted braking were added. Big whoop.
.


Apples to oranges. Assisted steering and braking doesn't give the player a 10+ second per lap advantage and the ability to turn every track into Yas Marina. It is going to completely break the beginner hoppers and even us faster players have reason to be worried.

>People in the beginner hoppers who want to play fair are going to get annoyed pretty quickly when they see people track extending to the extent of Nightmare.

>These slower players will migrate to the regular hoppers and be a massive obstacle for faster players.

>Less people as a result will be in the beginner hoppers. The corner cutters with friction assist will get bored due to the lack of players.

>It's safe to assume that there probably is a lot of overlap between players who would abuse friction assist to its full potential and people who love to ram others off the track.

>These players migrate to regular hoppers, the beginner hoppers become dead and multiplayer becomes the exact same kind of crash fest as it was in FM6.

Any small chance of slower players staying in the beginner hoppers where they belong has been completely destroyed with this new assist. This is why friction assist should not be available in any multiplayer hopper.

Oh, and off topic, but a pet peeve of mine:

Originally Posted by: TooOldToBeFast Go to Quoted Post

That is exactly my thoughts on this too. I am very skeptical as to whether or not it will be restricted as they say. I'm relatively new to Forza and would like to continue playing it. However, I feel there are already too many issues that ruin public lobbies as is. TCS is an assist that I feel should only be used by beginners, yet its widespread and many of the top players use it.


Feel free to drive the S class Maserati Tipo, Porsche 718, or the Team Forza NSX and you will see why TCS is necessary in some cars. You will also see how difficult they are to drive even with it on.

Edited by user Sunday, September 24, 2017 5:53:11 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#73 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 6:43:09 PM(UTC)
While its not a cheat its a bad addition plain and simple. Its similiar to the mod cards imo which i also think is detrimental to the game, nevermind giving people a false sense of accomplishment, many people never learn how to play properly without these assists. Theres going to be a bunch of people thinking they can drive full speed over grass and puddles. Then when they find out they cant anymore theyre going to resort to crashing and griefing the rest of the field to place 21st. It would have been better to just not add rain to beginner lobbies, at least they would learn how to race on the actual track first before they start dealing with less traction.
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#74 Posted : Sunday, September 24, 2017 8:28:31 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
While its not a cheat its a bad addition plain and simple. Its similiar to the mod cards imo which i also think is detrimental to the game, nevermind giving people a false sense of accomplishment, many people never learn how to play properly without these assists. Theres going to be a bunch of people thinking they can drive full speed over grass and puddles. Then when they find out they cant anymore theyre going to resort to crashing and griefing the rest of the field to place 21st. It would have been better to just not add rain to beginner lobbies, at least they would learn how to race on the actual track first before they start dealing with less traction.


Mod card was a Forza 6 thing yeah? Please tell me it's dead...
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#75 Posted : Monday, September 25, 2017 2:44:22 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: asm1983 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: im2fast4u711 Go to Quoted Post
While its not a cheat its a bad addition plain and simple. Its similiar to the mod cards imo which i also think is detrimental to the game, nevermind giving people a false sense of accomplishment, many people never learn how to play properly without these assists. Theres going to be a bunch of people thinking they can drive full speed over grass and puddles. Then when they find out they cant anymore theyre going to resort to crashing and griefing the rest of the field to place 21st. It would have been better to just not add rain to beginner lobbies, at least they would learn how to race on the actual track first before they start dealing with less traction.


Mod card was a Forza 6 thing yeah? Please tell me it's dead...


No, no its not.
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