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#1 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 2:24:12 PM(UTC)
I think T10 should promote hard-core Sim. physics. Like putting in some mandatory SS into Time trials,career events and hard-core leaderboards.
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#2 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 2:30:24 PM(UTC)
What are hardcore leaderboards and do we need that? Seems like it goes against the accessibility that Forza is all about.

-k
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#3 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 2:45:27 PM(UTC)
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.
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#4 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 2:55:59 PM(UTC)
For Forza to promote hard-core sim physics, it would first have to *have* hard-core sim physics.
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#5 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 2:57:53 PM(UTC)
Sim steering really isn't as hard to use on a controller as it's made out to be, you just need to be more careful when controlling slides/when going over kerbs. Having said that, I think forcing it to be used wouldn't go down well with a lot of people. Having it as a requirement for the hardcore LB would make sense though, considering it's meant to be the maximum difficulty LB.
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#6 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 4:12:15 PM(UTC)
Having leaderboards that can differentiate between wheel and controller users would have the same effect. Sim steering was not designed for use by players on controllers, turn10 even recommends not using it unless you have a wheel. That being said I drove all my muscle cars with a controller using sim steering because I felt I could get the nose to dive and dart more quickly and give me more time to bring the tail into line. But it is very easy to end up facing backwards in a cloud of smoke.

The xbox recognizes what kind of controller you are using so it wouldn't be difficult to filter the leaderboards by controller/wheel.
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#7 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 4:22:18 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.

100% disagree with you here. SIM steering is far more usable for controller players over wheel users having experience with both.
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#8 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 4:57:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.


I don't find that to be the case at all I use SIM steering with a controller, and I have absolutely no difficulty using SIM steering, but then again I have been playing with SIM steering for nearly a year now, and SIM steering just feels normal to me now.
18 | Forza Motorsport Driver for Delta Online Racing | Gold ForzaRC competitor | Boostilia Motorsport Race Organization Founder / GM | 74th in 2018 ForzaRC
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#9 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 5:28:01 PM(UTC)
Yes I totally agree SIM steering should be a requirement. SIM steering makes Forza much harder, and the whole point of HARDCORE leaderboards is to make players drive with the most difficulty. I feel like lots of people would go off the hardcore leaderboards since most people use normal steering. I find SIM steering quite easy to drive I have no issue with it, but then again I haven't played with normal steering in nearly a year, so SIM steering just feels normal to me now, and I play with a controller. SIM steering is actually quite easy to play with when you get used to it. SIM steering is not as difficult to play with as people make it out to be. People make SIM steering out to be an assist that's impossible to play with using a controller, and only people with wheels can play with SIM steering, but that's not the case at all. SIM steering is actually very easy to play with after a little practice, and once you get used to it. I don't know where people got the idea that SIM steering is impossible to play with using a controller because that's not true at all.
18 | Forza Motorsport Driver for Delta Online Racing | Gold ForzaRC competitor | Boostilia Motorsport Race Organization Founder / GM | 74th in 2018 ForzaRC
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#10 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 5:38:41 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
What are hardcore leaderboards and do we need that? Seems like it goes against the accessibility that Forza is all about.

-k


Hardcore leaderboards are leaderboards where you play with no assists not even the braking line is allowed everything has to be turned off. The only assist that's allowed to be turned on is NORMAL DAMAGE. You can choose between SIM damage, and NORMAL damage the damage mode you have set to does not affect if you go on the hardcore leaderboard or not.
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#11 Posted : Saturday, August 19, 2017 5:42:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Kdogg788 Go to Quoted Post
What are hardcore leaderboards and do we need that? Seems like it goes against the accessibility that Forza is all about.

-k


It already exists in the game, it's just a filter on the leaderboard.
Rank: B-Class Racing License
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#12 Posted : Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:01:26 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.

100% disagree with you here. SIM steering is far more usable for controller players over wheel users having experience with both.


Yeah until T10 gets decent FFB I don't want to spend half my time sliding around because I feel what the wheels are doing underneath me. I Use Normal Steering with my wheel because SIM requires a level of precision that's difficult to get when you can't tell what the car is doing.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Sunday, August 20, 2017 7:38:33 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.

100% disagree with you here. SIM steering is far more usable for controller players over wheel users having experience with both.


Yeah until T10 gets decent FFB I don't want to spend half my time sliding around because I feel what the wheels are doing underneath me. I Use Normal Steering with my wheel because SIM requires a level of precision that's difficult to get when you can't tell what the car is doing.

I would recommend SIM steering for AWD cars and P and X class on a wheel but nothing else really.

I only use SIM steering because it's faster in FM6 but it's not natural and it suits the controller far more, which just bridges the gap between controller and wheel users further.
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#14 Posted : Sunday, August 20, 2017 9:31:49 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: bjhgames1 Go to Quoted Post
Yes I totally agree SIM steering should be a requirement. SIM steering makes Forza much harder, and the whole point of HARDCORE leaderboards is to make players drive with the most difficulty. I feel like lots of people would go off the hardcore leaderboards since most people use normal steering. I find SIM steering quite easy to drive I have no issue with it, but then again I haven't played with normal steering in nearly a year, so SIM steering just feels normal to me now, and I play with a controller. SIM steering is actually quite easy to play with when you get used to it. SIM steering is not as difficult to play with as people make it out to be. People make SIM steering out to be an assist that's impossible to play with using a controller, and only people with wheels can play with SIM steering, but that's not the case at all. SIM steering is actually very easy to play with after a little practice, and once you get used to it. I don't know where people got the idea that SIM steering is impossible to play with using a controller because that's not true at all.



It's called tuning. Add more understeer and SIM steering is easy to control. Add more oversteer and normal steering becomes highly responsive similar to SIM steering. SIM steering is also better on awd, fwd, and rear engine rwd cars due to understeer.

After doing a bunch of esport comps what is best depends on the car and to extent driver skill. I know the top guys usually use SIM steering.

Like I was selected to do a comp the other day and chose not to use SIM steering due to unpredictability around curbs.

SIM steering isn't easy when you cannot tune around it. Adjusting deadzones kind of helps but after a certain point normal may be better.
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#15 Posted : Sunday, August 20, 2017 10:06:02 AM(UTC)
I use SIM steering for every car if I have the ability to tune the car. Stock cars can be tricky with SIM steering but I'd recommend using it there also to get more familiar and improve with it.
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#16 Posted : Sunday, August 20, 2017 4:27:47 PM(UTC)
Just dropping this here.
Never forget:

Originally Posted by: "Thomas @ Fanatec" Go to Quoted Post

The steering mode "simulation" let all cars oversteer more easily. Even the slowest Nissan Datsun 510 going uphill on Fujimi Kaido will oversteer easily although the power of the car is not enough to go higher than second gear most of the time. Do an oval track with a Mercedes C63 and you will fly off in every corner. Tim Schrick mentioned the tendency to oversteer the virtual M5 already on his comparision to the real car and he was using the old simulation mode.

I think the problem is not the oversteering but calling the mode "simulation". If T10 would have chosen "drift mode" it would have been more appropriate and still makes sense as it is fun to play. Remember: difficult not equal to realistic.

If you want to have more realistic car behavior and be faster than in the old simulation mode, you need to turn the steering mode to "normal" now.
Talking to brick walls since 2007.
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#17 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2017 3:36:11 AM(UTC)
Nearly all the super fast ppl I know use sim and the controller. The argument that sim makes it harder is mute because it makes u faster. I see it as requirement to post a super fast time rather than something that decreases or increase difficulty. That being said I can understand why it's not a requirement for the hardcore lb.
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#18 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2017 8:38:59 AM(UTC)
Imo a "hardcore leaderboard" should be hard core, thst means no assists altogether...

No abs
No braking line
No tsc or stm
SIM steering
Manual with clutch
Simulation damage
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#19 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2017 9:32:19 AM(UTC)
SS is just too much for a controller. Iv been on the hard core LB most of my history dating back to FM1. When FM6 was released I realized how impossible SS had become. Maybe on dry surface without other drivers. But I can tell you a year after playing I made a the choice to switch back to normal steering. One tap from another player and every race was lost. Not worth the xp or credit boost.
Controller sim damage cockpit hardcore need I say more?
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#20 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2017 9:49:32 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: kurtconners Go to Quoted Post
SS is just too much for a controller. Iv been on the hard core LB most of my history dating back to FM1. When FM6 was released I realized how impossible SS had become. Maybe on dry surface without other drivers. But I can tell you a year after playing I made a the choice to switch back to normal steering. One tap from another player and every race was lost. Not worth the xp or credit boost.

For I'd say around 80% + of the cars, SIM steering is faster. It's also far faster on a controller than it is on a wheel, though I believed it was designed for the wheel. If you look at the top times on the leaderboards SIM steering is used almost all the time as it's the faster method. Almost all of the top guys on the leaderboards use a controller as well as it's once again the fastest option. SIM steering on a wheel is a different story, it's almost a 50/50 chance of it being faster or uncontrollable. SIM steering is fine in the rain unless you hit a puddle going too fast and as for SIM steering being impossible to save when you are tapped by a player, well that's not the SIM steering's fault. That's down to forza's poor online crash physics.
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#21 Posted : Monday, August 21, 2017 12:32:10 PM(UTC)
i use sim steering with the controller, have been since sim steering became available in forza, feels great, dont see what all the complaints are.
and when i try normal steering the game feels like need for speed driving, too arcade-ish.
hardcore should mean sim steering also, agreed with OG poster.
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#22 Posted : Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:40:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.

100% disagree with you here. SIM steering is far more usable for controller players over wheel users having experience with both.


Yeah until T10 gets decent FFB I don't want to spend half my time sliding around because I feel what the wheels are doing underneath me. I Use Normal Steering with my wheel because SIM requires a level of precision that's difficult to get when you can't tell what the car is doing.



Get gud at tuning then
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#23 Posted : Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:45:27 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: ECT CHEF Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Cerrax Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Dan the Dartman Go to Quoted Post
I agree with Kdogg here. Sim steering is more designed for the wheel user and not the controller user. It is very hard to drive with sim steering with a controller and quite a bit easier to drive with a wheel. That being said you are playing favoritism to the wheel user then. I being a wheel user don't feel that it would be proper to implement this.
I would be OK to have say a cockpit veiw only leaderboard as that would be the same difficulty with a controller as a wheel but sim steering was not really designed for the controller.

100% disagree with you here. SIM steering is far more usable for controller players over wheel users having experience with both.


Yeah until T10 gets decent FFB I don't want to spend half my time sliding around because I feel what the wheels are doing underneath me. I Use Normal Steering with my wheel because SIM requires a level of precision that's difficult to get when you can't tell what the car is doing.



Get gud at tuning then

What a snarky response.
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#24 Posted : Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:51:50 AM(UTC)
I don't know man. I've never had FFB and never had an issue figuring out where the car is going.

-k
Rank: A-Class Racing License
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#25 Posted : Tuesday, August 22, 2017 10:55:47 AM(UTC)
I run normal steering and brake line. I could probably turn both off and still outrun most of the ones complaining in this thread.
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