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Rank: Driver's Permit
#1 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2018 12:39:53 PM(UTC)
Hi there, i was just reading something about the game makers are overhauling the physics, FFB and that sorta thing, im sorta hoping they dont change to much. I personally think they nailed the handling in forza 7, what do yous think?
Rank: D-Class Racing License
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#2 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2018 12:47:10 PM(UTC)
I wish the physics matched the specific cars more accurately. I've owned some of the cars in this game and the physics do not match the car. I think they have a base set of general settings that they lump cars into which increases the performance of some and hurts others.

For example, I owned a first generation Mazda RX-7. The handling was 100% neutral with no under or over steer. However, in this game the same car has over steer. I've owned a 1966 Alfa Romeo Giulia that also had completely neutral steering. Both were very easy cars to drive very fast but in Forza, they don't perform well until you tune them.

So, if the physics can more accurately reflect the varieties of cars, I'm all for it.
The gamer tag is accurate. It's how I've made a living for about 30 years, however I wish was racing cars instead. Sigh
Rank: Moderator
#3 Posted : Friday, October 5, 2018 12:59:14 PM(UTC)
Watch the Forza Monthly replay for details on what is being considered and how it will be implemented:
https://youtu.be/nhHacD2spcs
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#4 Posted : Saturday, October 6, 2018 2:33:45 AM(UTC)
Thanks ManteoMax for the stream vid. Especially the later section with Chris and Aaron. Now that Chris is in the wheelhouse, no pun intended lol, I the game will certainly make better inroads to greater physics . . .

I’m not fussed about the Amal ride of things, but only interested in the SP and Careere mode. From the data they are now implementing, the game will respond much better to human input, rather than relying on script red-once’s.

I have noticed that he Mekure certainly responds much better than others. But I’m wondering if it will apply across the board, eventually.

I understand that these things aren’t created overnight, nor can they be rolled out immediately across the entire field of vehicles.

Due mainly to how each handles of course.

It’s great that Chris has come into the team as it shows that they could see their weakness, not true physics, and look at fashioning it to be the ultimate car simulator fir the general public. Which is often different to actual driving simulators used by professionals to enhance their driving response times etc.

Again, thanks, it was great listening, and I recommend those composing, take the ‘time’ to actually ‘listen’ to the later half of the steam. Yes, it’s long, yes it’s technical, but it answers many of ppl’s questions.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#5 Posted : Sunday, October 7, 2018 9:42:47 PM(UTC)
There's a lot of things that could be improved without actually touching the base physics engine actually, rather just adding to it.

1. Active aerodynamics isn't simulated, it's pre-baked into the cars handling.
2. No ERS, DRS, KERS or Hybrid, once againg it's pre-baked.
3. No slider for stuff like TCS, STM or ABS.
4. More tire compounds such as inters, full wets etc.
5. Fuel burn isn't simulated.

These are just a few things.
Rank: Driver's License
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#6 Posted : Monday, October 8, 2018 11:27:59 PM(UTC)
I hope and pray that Chris realizes how many terrible engine sounds there are and does a major sound fix. The community has been waiting patiently for it to happen.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#7 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:20:39 AM(UTC)
I just hope they fix how gripper tyres affect angular momentum, the biggest issue with physics atm IMO. But there are a heap of small things that would help a lot like proper gearbox simulation, tyre temperature and wear.

Fixing angular momentum and better FFB will hands down make the game an absolute wet dream to drive anything.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#8 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 10:36:31 AM(UTC)
From the article it looks like it's all being completely redone.

-k
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#9 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 10:58:54 AM(UTC)
Ok, so I skipped through all the opening stuff to the FFB discussion and can't wait for these changes to take effect. They weren't really clear as to when to expect it but when it does it, the wheel experience should be even better.

-k
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#10 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:22:27 PM(UTC)
They mentioned in the Forza Live stream that the physics would be changing & track layering. I have no idea what track layering is, but maybe you do. Will changing these 2 aspects of the game change the drivatar behavior at all? I can’t race my LMP1 cars in freeplay because they drive off the track for no reason at areas like the carousel in Road America. It’s not just LMP1 cars either. INDYCARS & F1 cars do this as well. Anyone with some coding experience out there that can answer this?

Edit: just to clarify, it’s the drivatars in freeplay that can’t stay in track...not me.

Edited by user Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:23:45 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#11 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 12:50:45 PM(UTC)
These changes have nothing to do with AI. The physics and track layering only correspond to car handling and collision models as well as how they feel on a wheel.

-k
Rank: D-Class Racing License
#12 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:06:29 PM(UTC)
Well damn! There goes my hope they were working on a fix for this issue. Thanks for the answer though.
Rank: S-Class Racing License
#13 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:41:36 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
There's a lot of things that could be improved without actually touching the base physics engine actually, rather just adding to it.

1. Active aerodynamics isn't simulated, it's pre-baked into the cars handling.
2. No ERS, DRS, KERS or Hybrid, once againg it's pre-baked.
3. No slider for stuff like TCS, STM or ABS.
4. More tire compounds such as inters, full wets etc.
5. Fuel burn isn't simulated.

These are just a few things.


Whole aero needs to be reworked, when driving the F1 car you struggle with grip at low speed then suddenly have much more. Difficult to be consistent this way.

Electric powertrain is done the same way rFactor used to do turbos (it's not simulated).

Edited by user Tuesday, October 9, 2018 1:42:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: Racing Permit
 2 users liked this post.
#14 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 3:25:48 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
There's a lot of things that could be improved without actually touching the base physics engine actually, rather just adding to it.

1. Active aerodynamics isn't simulated, it's pre-baked into the cars handling.
2. No ERS, DRS, KERS or Hybrid, once againg it's pre-baked.
3. No slider for stuff like TCS, STM or ABS.
4. More tire compounds such as inters, full wets etc.
5. Fuel burn isn't simulated.

These are just a few things.


Couldn't agree more. We have cars with KERS and DRS yet no way to use it.
Slider for aids is a feature in just about every other racing game. Same for tire choices. No idea why basic features are missing. And before anyone stars lecturing me on how difficult implementation is, this is a 7th reincarnation. It's about time,

Edited by user Tuesday, October 9, 2018 3:27:15 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#15 Posted : Tuesday, October 9, 2018 6:30:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Bart Ziemski Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: EpicEvan777 Go to Quoted Post
There's a lot of things that could be improved without actually touching the base physics engine actually, rather just adding to it.

1. Active aerodynamics isn't simulated, it's pre-baked into the cars handling.
2. No ERS, DRS, KERS or Hybrid, once againg it's pre-baked.
3. No slider for stuff like TCS, STM or ABS.
4. More tire compounds such as inters, full wets etc.
5. Fuel burn isn't simulated.

These are just a few things.


Couldn't agree more. We have cars with KERS and DRS yet no way to use it.
Slider for aids is a feature in just about every other racing game. Same for tire choices. No idea why basic features are missing. And before anyone stars lecturing me on how difficult implementation is, this is a 7th reincarnation. It's about time,


If you're looking for simulation in Forza, you're right, but remember that the bulk of the cars in the game are road cars and during track days you don't have to deal with strategy, pit stops, etc. You'll change to random slicks at most.

Divisions like NASCAR and IndyCar need more simulation features, though.
R.I.P. 24 Heures du Mans

26/05/1923 - 17/06/2018
Rank: B-Class Racing License
#16 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 4:43:09 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: MetalCurve22 Go to Quoted Post
I hope and pray that Chris realizes how many terrible engine sounds there are and does a major sound fix. The community has been waiting patiently for it to happen.


THIS! With all the changes coming to physics they may as well do a sound overhaul. Im sure they have the man power and resources and now they have time based on their "roadmap" .
Rank: Driver's Permit
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#17 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 7:00:21 AM(UTC)
This is my first post.

My name is Jason, in the sim racing world most know me as Corsa.

I've been racing sims with dozens of different wheels since the late 90s primarily on PC, as I prefer an accurate simulation of how a vehicle interacts with the track surface.

I understand FM has been around a very long time and I've missed the party, but after thousands of hours within rFactor and others a friend within our league said I must try FM7.

I am utterly blown away how Forza seems to capture the intensity of a vehicle turning laps at speed. This doesn't look like a game anymore.

I look through the windshield at the sun setting fire to clouds surrounded by natural light sources, at night the headlights are remarkable in that they are not overly done or exaggerated. Trackside reflections from barriers to the track surface are spot on.
Whoever did the lighting, or graphics in general deserves much praise I've never seen anything like it on screen.

After adjusting some settings in my profiler and in game, the wheel is not bad at all. In fact, it's quite good. I read the entire FFB thread so no need to get into all that.

I do have a few suggestions as I think this simulation is on the brink of achieving what many have wanted, and that is to bring all sim racers together from console to 1080ti we need a cross platform king.

It's all about the physics.
From what I'm reading the devs have a plan to improve here, and that's the only way to bring more of the hardcore audience in.

I understand due to hardware limitations there's only so many cores available, and the majority of players use a controller, physics cannot be taken too far but the tire model needs to improve.
Lift off oversteer should not be happening when race slicks and downforce are involved.

I have dozens of ideas to improve the physics, but I don't know how far the devs want to push, or the sacrifices they deem acceptable to achieve them.

All that aside, the elephant in the room today for me is FOV adjustability.
Sim racers do not need pitch or angle settings, (although it's nice) but we have to have seat adjustments, forward, back, up, down.
Changing FOV affects FPS sure but it's a basic neccesity.

I've bought FM7 and play daily now on PC, I look forward to the future and await details regarding what the physics target is.

Rank: S-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#18 Posted : Wednesday, October 10, 2018 8:34:35 AM(UTC)
I have to agree with you on this. Limited FOV adjustments should be an option in game. The cars are wildly different with FOV and some of them are undriveable in dash view because of it. BTW, Corsa, if you want some longer sim like races with a group that doesn't bash around hit me up on Xbox Live. I will add you as well. We mostly run Sat. nights and Sun. mornings.

-k

Edited by user Wednesday, October 10, 2018 8:35:58 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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