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What's the issue with applying proper track limits to single player
Shouldn't that be what we are driving to anyway

Actually.. Yeah, I think you might be right. I looked back at the video on Manteomax's first post and right at 3:04 you could see the hit register on the debug window.

It looks like it logs a few things like momentum difference/change, position changes, off track incidents and actual speed vs expected speed. Very nice.

Very glad to see Turn 10 moving to address one of the fundamental problems with racing in Forza.

It's a very good idea to start out with the track boundaries first so players can get used to driving with them before implementing penalties and regulations.

Hopefully it will be a smooth rollout over the next few months as they bring the different aspects of these new features online.

Yeah - what may be your point? The cars also very clearly have at least 2 wheels on the track.

Can use the rumble strips as long as 2 wheels are on the tarmac. You just cannot put the entire car on them.

Edited by user Thursday, May 17, 2018 10:59:04 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Your original post said if 2 or more wheels were on the rumble strip a penalty or dirty lap should apply. Now you are saying as long as you have 2 wheels within the boundary you are good. Most race cars only have 4 wheels, so what statement are you trying to make? 2 wheels on a rumble strip is clean or dirty?

It is saying rumble strips are not part of the track so you cannot put more than 2 wheels on them. As long as 2 wheels are on the actual race track it is fine. 2 wheels on rumble strips 2 wheels on the track is ok. Just like any racecar driver will do and usually say in real life hot lap. Plenty of examples on youtube. There would be no reason for them to implement it any other way. Curbs are there for a reason.

Edited by user Thursday, May 17, 2018 11:30:49 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

As they've said, all the boundaries have been redrawn. Judging by the InsideXbox vid, that doesn't seem to include the rumbles on Monza. Also appears to be the same system that Forza currently uses; 2 tires off is clean, get atleast 3 tires OB and it's a done deal.

Edited by user Thursday, May 17, 2018 11:19:02 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

So is the new rules going to apply online as this is were its needed most cause or rammers and track cutting in my opinion is it gonna be added to main game also

Like the fact were getting more free cars also 2 more car packs for car pass owners

DRAG RACING!!! I never thought it’d happen!

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 12:40:41 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Probably the best announcement Turn 10 has ever done. I like that they've drawn the track limits by hand, shouldn't be many mistakes then. Hopefully Turn 10 employ the "if all 4 wheels are beyond the white lines" rule. Leaderboards need to be wiped for this too. Hopefully now we can remove all the tire barriers, random cones, sticky grass and hard walls. Should help framerate and free up some power, help visibility at tracks like VIR, stop those ridiculous pile ups and make it more authentic to real life. Should be less loose tires in the middle of tracks now as well.

As for a penalty system for ramming, about time. It's been rife in Multiplayer for ages. They need to ghost lapped cars in most hoppers, ghost cars that have too high a closing speed round corners and ghost cars going under 10 MPH. I think they need a 3 strikes and you're out policy. If you create a massive crash or ram people three times in a race, you get kicked. There should be penalty points too. If you get kicked 3 or 4 times you should get a 1 day ban imo.

We need more Forza Marshalls and we need a better vote to kick system. And I do think this should be imposed in single player. A big problem is people playing single player, ramming AI out the way and coming into multiplayer thinking it's ok.

Can't wait for this update.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thrilled to see track limits (and driving standards regulations in general) in Forza now. Multiplayer has gotten completely out of hand and I'll be very glad to see the end of barriers (both tyre and concrete) littering circuits across the world where they don't exist in reality. However (and this is a big however) the track limits shown in the Inside Xbox video at Monza (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFniqefXhwM) are fundamentally wrong. As per the FIA rules (not sure on IMSA or Indycar or whoever but I do know the FIA) the track limits includes the kerbs of a circuit - i.e. if you cut a corner, provided you have two wheels on the kerb you're fine. But as shown below at Vialone, Monza, this is not the case (2:43 into the video).

[img]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMC24BMRAyV4qhVYGcQ8yizLqekSJ4OyL70jiCZ[/img]

In that picture, the new track limit lines are red to show that the corner has been cut and the lap will have been dirtied, but if the track limits were where they should be (shown in yellow) this would not be the case. The same issue also appears at Roggia earlier in the video (2:37 into the video).

[img]https://photos.google.com/photo/AF1QipMJ5yEop4sQ2GznjACHxluIdufNG6gQIfKNQxOk[/img]

If Turn 10 want to make up their own track limits for every track then so be it, but to me it makes no sense to change them from what's widely accepted, and I can already see how much frustration such a seemingly small issue can (and will) cause. I can tell you right now that I'll be caught out by this at Silverstone (Copse and Stowe), Brands Hatch (Paddock Hill), Road Atlanta (Turn 5), Monza (Vialone and Ascari), and many more places. And that brings me to the Nurburgring. I can already feel the pain of spending 8-9 minutes doing an out lap (since neither standing nor rolling start allows you to get anywhere near enough speed up for a flying lap), then reaching the chicane about a minute and a half into the flying lap, using the real life track limits to take a big cut (see Nicki Thiim on YouTube), and having your lap dirtied (assuming the in-game track limits there are consistent with how they are at Monza).

Obviously it'd be completely unrealistic to expect this to be fixed in FM7, but I really do hope it gets fixed before we get another Motorsport game. Man, I'd even volunteer to do it myself.

[EDIT]: naturally, my photos didn't work, but the timestamp of each and video link is there so you can see for yourself if you're interested.

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 12:42:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Mechberg mentioned that they want to address the problems for multiplayer. As of right now it's unclear if this regulations are going to be optional or be in single player too.

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 1:38:17 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Did they use little marker pens?

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 1:45:23 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

I proposed the exact rules in the subreddit a while back but people replied they were concerned that it may not work correctly and players may be suspended for accidents.

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 1:59:11 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

But seriously if this works it could be the best thing forza has done in a long time,and it very much makes me chuckle to think of all the salty track cutters that won’t be able to get away with it anymore 🤣

It's a risk but one worth taking imo.

A positive step in the right direction. I’m hoping it’s as strict as possible and forced for all single and multiplayer.

You are allowed to put 2 wheels over the white line, anymore and that's where track limits come into play, the racing surface is classed as the area inbetween the lines, rumble strips aren't part of the racing surface. Most series will allow you to go all 4 wheels over 3 times before penalties, do it once in quailly and you lose the lap. The exit of 3rd turn at Brands Hatch is really harsh, if your wheels go over the kerb, and all cars are capable of doing that while still having 2 wheels inside the white line (legal by FIA standards), you will go over a pad that takes a photo (the criss-cross pattern) and three times is a penalty.

The V8 supercar reference was just one lap and they may have not used up their 3 strikes, so could go all 4 over the lines and make the most of the track. In NASCAR, road courses don't have track limits as for some reason American series have trouble policing them. Just look at when WEC and Tudor/Weathertech series raced on the same weekend at COTA, the FIA policed the track limits with GPS for WEC and the IMSA race was a farce as they said they couldn't police it and told drivers the only thing they couldn't do was go all 4 over on the inside of turns.

I wonder how Sebring will be dealt with, the run on to the back straight involves going all 4 wheels over the white line by swinging right over to the left before turning right on the straight and the exit of turn 17. In both the cases in real life drivers go over the white line and it is deemed ok, same on the exit of the international horseshoe at Daytona roval course (2nd proper corner). I think in the US its a yellow line that acts like a white line in the rest of the world and white lines don't delineate track limits. I just want to be able to use the real racing lines used IRL and not be to restricted in places where its not IRL.

I wonder how it will work in terms of, well say some one cuts the Ford chicane at LM, they might only be off the circuit for 2-3 seconds if that but will have made the lap 4-6 seconds shorter as they will have had a constant speed and not had to have slowed and accelerated like the car taking the chicane, so will the penalty be enough. I also hope the penalties aren't to draconian for running wide, most of us on here are clean racers and it would be a shame to have a great battle with some one, run wide on an exit and gain a 10th, but because you had all 4 wheels over for 2 seconds lose a position or 2.

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 2:38:54 AM(UTC)  | Reason: I'm about 2 seconds away from throwing this keyboard out the window.

All good and hopefully it gets implemented without any issues.

Track limits for single player doesn't really change much, because most of laps are still going to be dirty with the current AI. Penalty system, on the other hand, should be kept away from the single player with the exact same reason, the AI (unfair, stupid, silly, sometimes hilarious, most of the time just ruining your races).

All I can say is HOORAY!

I know I should temper my expectations, but if we can finally get some real racing etiquette enforced, then Forza online might actually be playable :P

I've been saying from the beginning that the Forza RC would cause T10 to re-think the competitive aspects of the game. Forza had moved pretty far from promoting any real competitive racing since FM4. I'm optimistic that Forza RC is their attempt to bring that back to the Motorsport series.

FIA Formula 1 Sporting Regulations 2018 state (and they have been like this for a while) the white line at the edge of the track (before the kerb) denotes the extent of the track, and at least one part of the car must be inside it. The kerb is not part of the track.



https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

The same statement in bold is present in Article 2, Chapter IV of Appendix L to the FIA International Sporting Code (with slightly different wording but the same intent).

Edited by user Friday, May 18, 2018 3:10:38 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Could the confusion be because the length of the car means you can take a tight bend such that the line the side of the car follows is outside the track limit, but there is always one wheel inside the limit? So if you're taking the first left hand bit of a left-right chicane, you cut the corner, and your front right tyre goes off the track, but you're okay because your rear right tyre is still on the track. Then just as your rear right tyre is about to go off the track, your front right tyre returns to the track. So if watching this at full speed it might look like the car is taking a line that is beyond the track limit, but if you stepped through frame by frame you'd see that there is always part of one tyre inside the track limit.

FACR DLtuning has posted a video and is doing a series proving you can race 100% clean on unbeatable with no problems. I think the issue is race length. Longer races means less panic to hit the front.

If it’s equally strict in single player, that should hopefully breed a better mentality going into multiplayer.

as long as you got 1 wheel on track your fine. you're only off track the moment all 4 tires are off