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Rank: S-Class Racing License
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#651 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:17:08 PM(UTC)
Run down of how the FFB feel on my TX...

CONS
1. No soft locking (well done Turn 10).
2. No Center Aligning Torque (GG Turn 10).
3. Force Feedback Understeer Effect pretty much does nothing.
4. Not as much FFB or Vibration as FH3.
5. Essentially a copy pasted FH3 FFB.
6. Nuanced Effects from FH3 such as bumps in the roads, are missing due to the dampening being amped up to 11.
7. Reducing the dampening increases the frustrating AF wobble on straights and for some reason dramatically reduces FFB and adds a small dead-zone.

PROS
1. Better FFB than Forza 6 (Though my bad puns are better than FM6's FFB).
2. Inherent wobble on the straights with high FFB has been "relatively" fixed.

Overall it sucks. A review may be coming soon though I can't say which site it will be on as Hiero will find me and fight me if I mention it on the forums.
Rank: Series Champion
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#652 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:18:33 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: GURK3NS3PP Go to Quoted Post
Am i doing it wrong? For me the demo has force but no feedback 🤨


Xbox or PC?

Can we start specifying what platforms you are using so we can get some consistency with reports/functions etc.

Platform, DOR, etc.
Ive been here long enough, I expect nothing to change, at all. 0.001% of me is still thinking there could be something in the demo/settings. Forza demos historically have been worse than release.
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Rank: R-Class Racing License
#653 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:23:36 PM(UTC)
Xbox 1,TX wheel,540 DOR,0-100 dead zones steering,braking,truck race was good but b-class,Nissan was ok,Porsche sucked. 50 on FFB-75 vib,rest stock.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:25:27 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
 1 user liked this post.
#654 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:24:46 PM(UTC)
Dust and T Rex,
I posted my wheel setting under in FFB settings thread started by T Rex.....can you try them and let me know what you think??? They are with my same Forza 6 settings on my wheel so only adjusted the Demo settings.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:25:40 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Driver's Permit
 3 users liked this post.
#655 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:25:51 PM(UTC)
It has to take a special kind of talent to create a racing game that does not work on a steering wheel.

Congratulations, Turn 10!

If this is what you were going for, you have succeeded with flying colors. Why would anybody ever pay a dime to you for a game that is completely unplayable on a $700 wheel setup? For those in this thread saying the same, that the controls and force feedback are junk and yet you are still purchasing this? You're crazy! My opinion, but hey, it's not my money. So disappointed. I have played every Forza Motorsport iteration up to this one, but never again unless I see a demo with controls that work. Let's face it, they're not going to put any effort whatsoever into updating the demo.
Rank: Series Champion
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#656 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:34:50 PM(UTC)
GTPlanet thread here: https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/threads/forza-7-pc-demo-wheel-impressions.359010/

So, allegedly simulation steering is worse for ffb than normal. Honestly not surprised. Simulation steering has always been 'drift mode'.
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#657 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:39:23 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: XE MintyFresh Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
^No Soft locking.
No Self Aligning Torque
No Point.

Anyone put their DOR to 180?? At that point it should be 1:1 with wheel mapping/controllers.


I'm getting SAT on the XB1 with a TMX.




Off screen video please, wheel in frame, screen in frame. go.


Will a couple figure 8's to demonstrate the self steer be fine?

Hmm seems the guys in the gtplanet thread with the issues run sim steering, I run normal.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:47:54 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License
 2 users liked this post.
#658 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:46:53 PM(UTC)
A quote from an article in December 2016 when FM7 was supposedly working with Thomas and the guys at Fanatec to improve FFB...

"The community responded to Jackermeier with a number of suggestions and ideas they had. These included handbrake support, automatic steering ratio adjustments, and improved force feedback on wheels."

1- No handbrake support
2- No automatic steering ratio adjustments
3- No improved FFB that I can detect in the demo.

Nice one T10. So glad I pre-ordered PC2 now. This is the first Forza title I haven't pre-ordered and probably won't be the last.
Rank: Series Champion
#659 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:53:01 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XE MintyFresh Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: XE MintyFresh Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
^No Soft locking.
No Self Aligning Torque
No Point.

Anyone put their DOR to 180?? At that point it should be 1:1 with wheel mapping/controllers.


I'm getting SAT on the XB1 with a TMX.




Off screen video please, wheel in frame, screen in frame. go.


Will a couple figure 8's to demonstrate the self steer be fine?

Hmm seems the guys in the gtplanet thread with the issues run sim steering, I run normal.


Initiate a drift, once sideways (controlled) let the wheel go, if you dont straighten up without any input = no Self Aligning Torque.

This is what I want to see https://youtu.be/7vqRnGXPOwU?t=1m3s

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:55:52 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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#660 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 3:56:13 PM(UTC)
Hello everyone. My name is Aaron and I'm a designer at Turn 10. I've read several of the concerns here and wanted to address as many of them as possible.

A few quick notes that apply specifically to PC users
  • Please update both your firmware and drivers to the latest versions approved by your wheel manufacturer. Over the development of FM7 we worked closely with wheel manufacturers to ensure our game worked with their wheels correctly. In some cases this required driver and/or firmware updates. A list of officially supported drivers will be up soon but for now it's best to search the manufacturer site for your specific wheel.
  • In the case where your wheel has an Xbox mode it's best to install the driver and run it in PC mode. While it will work in Xbox mode with Forza Motorsport 7 on PC the experience will be better in PC mode as you can tune the driver settings to your liking.
  • Specific to Thrustmaster devices on PC please use a USB 2.0 port. The Thrustmaster driver appears to have issues with USB 3.0/3.1 recognition. This issue is ubiquitous across all games and not specific to FM7.
  • The tuning in Forza Motorsport 7 was done using the out-of-box settings for all wheels. If you have driver or wheel settings from another title it's suggested that you start with the defaults and tune to your liking.
  • While the Forza Horizon 3 settings menu appears the same the underlying force feedback is not. It's best to start from scratch.


Known issues we're working on
  • The steering axis inside deadzone should be 0.
  • Outside deadzones for functions mapped to a button display a spurious value
  • Force Feedback Understeer and Force Feedback Minimum Force sliders produce minimal change
  • Steering Sensitivity should engage soft locks instead of altering linearity. I'd strongly suggest setting your DOR in your driver settings.


Let's keep it clean and keep the feedback coming. If you try your wheel and make a comment in here it'd be appreciated if you post your setup, driver and firmware. We are committed to an accurate, tactile and enjoyable force feedback experience. Objective and detailed feedback is appreciated.

Aaron
T10 Design
Rank: Driver's License
#661 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:08:26 PM(UTC)
On Xbox One for me it's a huge upgrade comparing it to Forza 6.

I'm using a Thrustmaster TX with the leather Rim.

It is far from perfect but at least I have decent force in the wheel leaving all the option to default. The Porsche is hard to drive but it seems in all Forza's Porsche's are hard to control.

The Nissan is really fun to drive all assists off. I have set the steering to normal.

There is some strange stuff like being bump sometimes doesn't get into the wheel feedback, sometimes it does. Same goes for bumps. But it is way more natural to me than it was in Forza 6.
We are still far from games like Dirt Rally which you can feel the weight and every small bumps but it's a big step up from last Forza.

I am pretty sure they will improve the FFB in the next couple of weeks.
Rank: Driver's Permit
#662 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:11:30 PM(UTC)
@dust

I'll test it tomorrow for you to be sure, it's 1am my time so need some sleep.

Check if Spitsy has what you're looking for though, he knows his stuff. https://youtu.be/-qlIHr8JxBY

Edit: go to the 4:00 mark in that link, that what you're after?

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:19:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit
#663 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:12:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Agni Astor Go to Quoted Post


You aren't using Simulation steering are you? Because that has always been unrealistic garbage. Game feels great with a wheel on Normal steering for me.


This is the best change I made with Motorsport 6.

Rank: Forza Staff
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#664 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:15:47 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Blue028 Go to Quoted Post
Colour me extremely disappointed, video will be available here shortly : Forza 7 PC Demo Wheel Impressions


Tell me a bit about your setup. Base, hub, pedals, etc. I'd like to replicate it here. What driver and firmware are you on? What are your driver settings? What about your wheel tuning settings?

I noted that you turned your center spring and damper down completely. The center spring is the static centering force from scrub radius. Drag is the inherent frictions within the steering system. Both of these values will contribute to the oscillation and lack of feel when the car isn't moving. The default settings of 100 may be too high but I wouldn't suggest setting them to 0.

I'm really curious about the lack of align torque. With the proper settings align torque from both pneumatic and mechanical trail are significant. Of course, going beyond the limits of the front tires will diminish both of these but certainly not to zero.
Aaron
T10 Design
Rank: S-Class Racing License
 3 users liked this post.
#665 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:19:43 PM(UTC)
I just testing the demo again on windows 10, but this time I did not open the Thrustmaster driver software; the FFB I felt was nothing like I did earlier one when I first played the demo. I am actually quite confused. I also didnt seem to need to change rotation to have nice driving feel across the 3 vehicles, it just felt like a much better experience. On top of that, there also seemed to be some self aligning going on; to echo what Minty is saying. I think I am going to install the demo on my Xbox one tomorrow, and then hook up my G920 to see if I have a similar experience to what I just had.

It is also very nice to see someone from T10 post in here as well, thank you for that Aaron; I really hope you can all get these things sorted out. Would be nice to have a good FFB experience with a Forza game, and something us wheel users have been crying out for, for a long time now.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:20:21 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: Series Champion
#666 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:20:20 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: T10Driver Go to Quoted Post


  • Specific to Thrustmaster devices on PC please use a USB 2.0 port. The Thrustmaster driver appears to have issues with USB 3.0/3.1 recognition. This issue is ubiquitous across all games and not specific to FM7.
  • The tuning in Forza Motorsport 7 was done using the out-of-box settings for all wheels. If you have driver or wheel settings from another title it's suggested that you start with the defaults and tune to your liking.


Known issues we're working on

  • Steering Sensitivity should engage soft locks instead of altering linearity. I'd strongly suggest setting your DOR in your driver settings.





Hi Aaron,

Thanks for taking the time to jump into this thread and reply. Brave man, I commend you.

Re quoted items.
1: Is this specific to certain controllers? similiar to oculus and vive issues where intel and asmedia controllers have issues, but fresco logic does not?
2&3 suggests softlocking is in, but under the sensitivity setting? Is this placeholder/carry over?




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Rank: Series Champion
#667 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:22:28 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: XE MintyFresh Go to Quoted Post
@dust

I'll test it tomorrow for you to be sure, it's 1am my time so need some sleep.

Check if Spitsy has what you're looking for though, he knows his stuff. https://youtu.be/-qlIHr8JxBY

Edit: go to the 4:00 mark in that link, that what you're after?


Nope, thats the low speed oscillation Blue has pointed out in his analysis. If you watch closely he is giving input to make it straighten up when this should happen with zero input as per the video I linked.
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Rank: Series Champion
#668 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:23:28 PM(UTC)
Im downloading the demo now. 5.75GB of 22GB at 90Mb/s.

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:24:25 PM(UTC)  | Reason: cant spell

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#669 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:25:57 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ialyrn Go to Quoted Post
I just testing the demo again on windows 10, but this time I did not open the Thrustmaster driver software; the FFB I felt was nothing like I did earlier one when I first played the demo. I am actually quite confused. I also didnt seem to need to change rotation to have nice driving feel across the 3 vehicles, it just felt like a much better experience. On top of that, there also seemed to be some self aligning going on; to echo what Minty is saying. I think I am going to install the demo on my Xbox one tomorrow, and then hook up my G920 to see if I have a similar experience to what I just had.

It is also very nice to see someone from T10 post in here as well, thank you for that Aaron; I really hope you can all get these things sorted out. Would be nice to have a good FFB experience with a Forza game, and something us wheel users have been crying out for, for a long time now.


I had to reinstall windows on monday due a ssd failing.
My install is dead clean, I havent even installed my wheel yet so whatever I grab will be latest from thrustmaster website.

I have all 3 usb controllers in my PC. Intel and Asmedia via mobo, Fresco logic USB 3 via PCI-e Inatek card (recommended for best VR's). So I can test that as well.
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#670 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:29:53 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: T10Driver Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Blue028 Go to Quoted Post
Colour me extremely disappointed, video will be available here shortly : Forza 7 PC Demo Wheel Impressions


Tell me a bit about your setup. Base, hub, pedals, etc. I'd like to replicate it here. What driver and firmware are you on? What are your driver settings? What about your wheel tuning settings?

I noted that you turned your center spring and damper down completely. The center spring is the static centering force from scrub radius. Drag is the inherent frictions within the steering system. Both of these values will contribute to the oscillation and lack of feel when the car isn't moving. The default settings of 100 may be too high but I wouldn't suggest setting them to 0.

I'm really curious about the lack of align torque. With the proper settings align torque from both pneumatic and mechanical trail are significant. Of course, going beyond the limits of the front tires will diminish both of these but certainly not to zero.


Wow, actual developer help here. You deserve a beer or something. Thank you!
Rank: Forza Staff
 3 users liked this post.
#671 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:39:51 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: Ialyrn Go to Quoted Post
I just testing the demo again on windows 10, but this time I did not open the Thrustmaster driver software; the FFB I felt was nothing like I did earlier one when I first played the demo. I am actually quite confused. I also didnt seem to need to change rotation to have nice driving feel across the 3 vehicles, it just felt like a much better experience. On top of that, there also seemed to be some self aligning going on; to echo what Minty is saying. I think I am going to install the demo on my Xbox one tomorrow, and then hook up my G920 to see if I have a similar experience to what I just had.

It is also very nice to see someone from T10 post in here as well, thank you for that Aaron; I really hope you can all get these things sorted out. Would be nice to have a good FFB experience with a Forza game, and something us wheel users have been crying out for, for a long time now.


We've seen this in other games as well. The driver software grabs the FFB motor and you lose all dynamic aspects of force feedback. In some games you're left with only the centering spring.

Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post


Re quoted items.
1: Is this specific to certain controllers? similiar to oculus and vive issues where intel and asmedia controllers have issues, but fresco logic does not?
2&3 suggests softlocking is in, but under the sensitivity setting? Is this placeholder/carry over?



1: It's somewhat device dependent and generally inconsistent. It's best to use a USB 2.0 port and check the controller settings to ensure the device has initialized correctly. Because of our controller extensibility FM7 will handle a device which has initialized incorrectly but it may not function as expected.
2/3: We're working toward soft locking with the ultimate goal being to leave your DOR at max and handle lock through the game.
Aaron
T10 Design
Rank: Series Champion
 4 users liked this post.
#672 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:49:34 PM(UTC)
I like you. Its been a long time since we've had dev interaction on this forum.
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#673 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:56:25 PM(UTC)
g920 PC user here, FW 96.3.49, LGS_8.96.81_x64:

-Basicaly, i feel like FFB here is a FH3's FFB copy, no bumps road feeling, only when i crash with cars or take some corners or im out of road i have some FFB, but weak for being a sim game...

-FM6 APEX makes me feel better FFB than this.

-In fact, i'm having better feelings with Apex in all senses than with this demo, with the exception of not having the zoomed cabin camera...

Edited by user Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:00:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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Rank: Series Champion
#674 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 4:59:51 PM(UTC)
PC Users: Thrustmaster released a new driver for the T500RS on the 14th of Sept 2017... I suspect same driver for TX,T300 etc. didnt check.
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#675 Posted : Tuesday, September 19, 2017 5:10:24 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: DUST2DEATH Go to Quoted Post
PC Users: Thrustmaster released a new driver for the T500RS on the 14th of Sept 2017... I suspect same driver for TX,T300 etc. didnt check.


The patch notes say its basically for the t500 for dirt 4 and dirt rally
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