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Rank: C-Class Racing License
#51 Posted : Friday, March 17, 2017 2:04:02 PM(UTC)
Only handling parts and aero to allow tuning.

Should be 271ps, 2436lbs.

Edited by user Friday, March 17, 2017 2:15:13 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#52 Posted : Friday, March 17, 2017 7:15:22 PM(UTC)
1:27.652 - in my tune
1:27.775 in your tune

With just brakes, arbs, springs, dif, and front rear aero. Gave them both a fair run and your tune was not a "base" tune it was tuned for that track and launching out of slow corners. With some minor tweaks my tune would be quite a bit quicker as yours is far too soft and understeery. Ran both with no assists. #808 overall.

Should be on my twitch. Both runs. My run is on the lb in my tune as ive never done that track/class before and have very few laps on that track by itself.

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#53 Posted : Saturday, March 18, 2017 1:14:36 AM(UTC)
So it's obviously a driver issue. I can drive faster with mine and you are faster with yours. Best way to tell would be probably a third one to test both.

BTW I cannot see anything in your Twitch channel?

Best lap time aside how consistent could you pull fast laps with both tunes? Like how many 1.27 laps could you drive with both out of 10?

And BTW you are right the Mustang tune is not a Base Tune in a strong sense rather than a Tune I calculated for that specific build based on my Muscle car base tune. I didn't manually tune it for that track at all. Moreover you can take it to any other track in the game and it will drive good there as well. Could do this for any other Muscle car also.

That understeery feeling is probably caused by higher rear aero compared to yours. Put it down to 106 as yours and reduce rear springs a bit and your good to go.

Also I don't get how you can call my tune too soft. I run higher ARBs and front springs than you.

Edited by user Saturday, March 18, 2017 3:54:59 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#54 Posted : Saturday, March 18, 2017 4:38:39 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
So it's obviously a driver issue. I can drive faster with mine and you are faster with yours. Best way to tell would be probably a third one to test both.

BTW I cannot see anything in your Twitch channel?

Best lap time aside how consistent could you pull fast laps with both tunes? Like how many 1.27 laps could you drive with both out of 10?

And BTW you are right the Mustang tune is not a Base Tune in a strong sense rather than a Tune I calculated for that specific build based on my Muscle car base tune. I didn't manually tune it for that track at all. Moreover you can take it to any other track in the game and it will drive good there as well. Could do this for any other Muscle car also.

That understeery feeling is probably caused by higher rear aero compared to yours. Put it down to 106 as yours and reduce rear springs a bit and your good to go.

Also I don't get how you can call my tune too soft. I run higher ARBs and front springs than you.



I will do it again on twitch. I was havimg issues with it disconnecting. What i did was buikd tune inout your settings run around 12 laps then i backed out built my tune ran about 12 laps.The way i did it I could run both tunes very consistently, consistency doesnt come from a tune it comes from a driver however i was pushing them both pretty hard so theres a bunch of mistakes in both tunes.

I say its soft because rear springs are near non existant and theres no rebound to support than non existant rear springs. You make a move and then have to wait for the car to respond. Dif isnt loose enough which makes car not rotate.

Like i said ill run again so you can see. Was at very low pi for class and still did decent. Top 100 hardcore.

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#55 Posted : Saturday, March 18, 2017 6:34:17 AM(UTC)
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#56 Posted : Saturday, March 18, 2017 7:28:46 AM(UTC)
what pi do you have? or parts list?

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#57 Posted : Saturday, March 18, 2017 7:34:45 AM(UTC)
D337, 271ps, 2436lbs

Race brakes, race springs, race ARBs, race diff, Forza Aero front and rear
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#58 Posted : Sunday, March 19, 2017 2:09:55 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.
Rank: A-Class Racing License
#59 Posted : Sunday, March 19, 2017 12:22:23 PM(UTC)
It doesnt mean that one needs to be done because of the other. What it does prove is you have changed the balance of the tune to be more prone to oversteer.

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#60 Posted : Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:11:35 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


how much do you lower the wing and how much do you lower springs?

I got a aero formula and I set me aero to those numbers from the start and do not change it. I am thinking of adding the aero formula to the spings. I have done it for one car and it worked really well.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#61 Posted : Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:29:45 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
It doesnt mean that one needs to be done because of the other. What it does prove is you have changed the balance of the tune to be more prone to oversteer.

Had another Yas 10 lap test run and got accustomed to your tune better:

mine 1.26.839 clean (154 rear aero)
yours 1.27.430 clean

So the difference remains (at least for me) albeit a little less.

But I have to say a top driver will probably run similar times in both.

Edited by user Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:59:48 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: C-Class Racing License
#62 Posted : Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:33:44 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: uber understeer Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


how much do you lower the wing and how much do you lower springs?

I got a aero formula and I set me aero to those numbers from the start and do not change it. I am thinking of adding the aero formula to the spings. I have done it for one car and it worked really well.

Actually thats one part I haven't figured out exactly yet, so I'm doing this by testing it out. Just keep lowering rear springs until oversteer is gone.

It doesn't seem to be a fixed ratio but seems to be dependent on weight distribution.

Edited by user Sunday, March 19, 2017 3:35:42 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: S-Class Racing License
#63 Posted : Sunday, March 19, 2017 6:47:27 PM(UTC)
Good, because my aero is only dependent on weight distribution. I'll test one my aero formula and use it for aero and springs and see if it works or not.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#64 Posted : Monday, March 20, 2017 4:03:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


False.

The higher skill the more oversteer needed. The more oversteer the more you can push the car. There is a point where it becomes undrivable though.

It's difficult to push an understeer prone car due to mid corner transitionally issues or even worse corner entry issues. Always seems you have to let off the gas and wait for the car to get pointed in the right direction.

I was having those issues yesterday in a private league race. I was fast when I hit the corners perfect, but a slight variation and I was screwed.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#65 Posted : Monday, March 20, 2017 4:23:38 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


False.

The higher skill the more oversteer needed. The more oversteer the more you can push the car. There is a point where it becomes undrivable though.

It's difficult to push an understeer prone car due to mid corner transitionally issues or even worse corner entry issues. Always seems you have to let off the gas and wait for the car to get pointed in the right direction.

I was having those issues yesterday in a private league race. I was fast when I hit the corners perfect, but a slight variation and I was screwed.

Agreed, oversteer is faster than understeer if you have the skills, while understeer can help for consistency for not so skilled players.

However I don't quite subscribe to oversteer is faster than completely neutral, especially when fast weight shifting. If you have oversteer you almost always have to make slight corrections because of the oversteer and lose time.

Edited by user Monday, March 20, 2017 4:48:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rank: A-Class Racing License
#66 Posted : Monday, March 20, 2017 4:54:17 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


False.

The higher skill the more oversteer needed. The more oversteer the more you can push the car. There is a point where it becomes undrivable though.

It's difficult to push an understeer prone car due to mid corner transitionally issues or even worse corner entry issues. Always seems you have to let off the gas and wait for the car to get pointed in the right direction.

I was having those issues yesterday in a private league race. I was fast when I hit the corners perfect, but a slight variation and I was screwed.


Swerve any chance you will do a run in the 2 tunes and post times?


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#67 Posted : Monday, March 20, 2017 11:47:58 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


False.

The higher skill the more oversteer needed. The more oversteer the more you can push the car. There is a point where it becomes undrivable though.

It's difficult to push an understeer prone car due to mid corner transitionally issues or even worse corner entry issues. Always seems you have to let off the gas and wait for the car to get pointed in the right direction.

I was having those issues yesterday in a private league race. I was fast when I hit the corners perfect, but a slight variation and I was screwed.


Swerve any chance you will do a run in the 2 tunes and post times?



Yea later today. Maybe 2 hours from now? Post what values you were using and I'll take a run. Yas is a track I know decently thanks to now banned forum member Lou and my attempts to beat corner cutters.
Rank: X-Class Racing License
#68 Posted : Monday, March 20, 2017 12:14:43 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


False.

The higher skill the more oversteer needed. The more oversteer the more you can push the car. There is a point where it becomes undrivable though.

It's difficult to push an understeer prone car due to mid corner transitionally issues or even worse corner entry issues. Always seems you have to let off the gas and wait for the car to get pointed in the right direction.

I was having those issues yesterday in a private league race. I was fast when I hit the corners perfect, but a slight variation and I was screwed.

Agreed, oversteer is faster than understeer if you have the skills, while understeer can help for consistency for not so skilled players.

However I don't quite subscribe to oversteer is faster than completely neutral, especially when fast weight shifting. If you have oversteer you almost always have to make slight corrections because of the oversteer and lose time.


The car I used yesterday was neutral. It needed that extra something so that I could flick it thru corners. The tuner later told me it was a style issue. He uses gas to whip it around corners. I rely more in thumbstick control with smooth throttle inputs. There are thumbstick and throttle corrections that occur but loss of time doesn't always occur if the car stays on a desirable line.

My style is a high risk/reward and consistency is dependent upon time of day. Lmao. And apparently Box has a similar style but more extreme. His 73 Trans am is at the tops of the boards but boy that car will spin out on you. The balance feels neutral until you get to technical corners and notice it's responsiveness.

I'm not saying add oversteer just because you can. If the car doesn't feel settled oversteer will just eat you alive. The oversteer I'm referring to transitional oversteer where your thumb determines if you slide tires or not. The rear tires will grip as long as you keep your thumb in control.

If you see me doing well online...it's only because I was able to find that kind of balance and spent more than 30 minutes tuning. Lol.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#69 Posted : Monday, March 20, 2017 8:38:52 PM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: PTG Baby Cow Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: fifty inch Go to Quoted Post
Just checked my tune with 106 rear aero and 306.7 rear springs.

1.27.155 clean no assists

And that was 10 laps, I'm sure I can take it to 1.26 with more practice.

And BTW this proves the point of the original poster: lowering rear aero without lowering rear springs result in slight oversteer which in turn makes you slower because you cannot push the car as much.

Test it out yourself.


False.

The higher skill the more oversteer needed. The more oversteer the more you can push the car. There is a point where it becomes undrivable though.

It's difficult to push an understeer prone car due to mid corner transitionally issues or even worse corner entry issues. Always seems you have to let off the gas and wait for the car to get pointed in the right direction.

I was having those issues yesterday in a private league race. I was fast when I hit the corners perfect, but a slight variation and I was screwed.


Swerve any chance you will do a run in the 2 tunes and post times?



Yea later today. Maybe 2 hours from now? Post what values you were using and I'll take a run. Yas is a track I know decently thanks to now banned forum member Lou and my attempts to beat corner cutters.

Swerve: just use my settings from the thread with the 154 rear aero, it's the fastest for me.

Rank: X-Class Racing License
#70 Posted : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:13:17 AM(UTC)
Ok. I will try it. Not sure when though. Not feeling well today. If I play it'll be for relaxation only.
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#71 Posted : Tuesday, March 21, 2017 6:20:34 AM(UTC)
Originally Posted by: RPM Swerve Go to Quoted Post
Ok. I will try it. Not sure when though. Not feeling well today. If I play it'll be for relaxation only.

No sweat - relaxing is first priority :-)
Rank: C-Class Racing License
#72 Posted : Saturday, March 25, 2017 12:51:39 AM(UTC)
Swerve any chance you can do it this weekend?
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