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ONR RoadRunner - Damping Formula

Rank: C-Class Racing License 1 user liked this post.		#26 Posted : Monday, March 3, 2014 2:13:44 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: InsXicht291 Hi, for the Ferrari 312T i get a Rear Rebound value of 30, but i can only set it up to 13. What now? :D Greetz Edit: Equation: ((0.63x1263x9.8)/(65.4x2^2))+1=30.8 Put it to 13.0

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#27 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 11:31:17 AM(UTC) Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Greetings Community! Need a little help tuning your damping settings? Hopefully with the use of my formula, you'll be able to quickly get some settings which work for you! Damping Formula(s): Front and Rear Rebound = ((WB% (LBS) * 9.8) / (LSR * RH^2)) + 1 Front and Rear Bump = ((WB% (LBS) * 9.8) / (USR * RH^2)) + 1 abbreviation meanings: WD = Weight Distribution LBS = Weight of car in pounds (Only pounds!) USR = Upper-Spring-Rate (Maximum stiffness the spring(s) can go) LSR = Lower-Spring-Rate (Minimum stiffness the spring(s) can go) RH = Ride Height 9.8 is a constant which must NOT be changed! *Note* When finding Front Rebound or Bump, use Front Weight Distribution and Front Ride Height When finding Rear Rebound or Bump, use Rear Weight Distribution and Rear Ride Height Example: In this example I will use a 2013 Lotus E21 (F1 car) just because it's light. Weight Distribution: Front - 46% / Rear - 54% Weight: 1422 lbs Upper-Spring-Rate: 589.3 lb/in Lower-Spring-Rate: 73.7 lb/in Ride Height: Front - 3.5 in / Rear - 3.1 in Once you have got your values substitute them into the formula... Front Rebound: ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 = 8.1 (to 3 significant figures) Rear Rebound: ((54% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.1^2)) + 1 = 11.6 (to 3 significant figures) Front Bump: ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (589.3 * 3.5^2)) + 1 = 1.9 (to 3 significant figures) Rear Bump: ((54% (1422) * 9.8) / (589.3 * 3.1^2)) + 1 = 2.3 (to 3 significant figures) Taking Mathematics to the game! "The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination" - Albert Einstein For my open source tunes please click 'here' Hope this helps! Enjoy, RR Ok im entering the data in your first example ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 and im getting 1.4993215739 as my answer is that correct if not what am i doing wrong. Thanks for any help Clean Racing with the AI VIDEO

Rank: On the Podium		#28 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 12:20:10 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Ok im entering the data in your first example ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 and im getting 1.4993215739 as my answer is that correct if not what am i doing wrong. Thanks for any help Recheck the sequence of what you are doing….for me, ONR's result is correct. Everything within the brackets gets me 7.1, plus add 1 = 8.1. (.4614229.8)=6,410.376 (73.73.53.5)=902.825 then, divide 6410.376 by 902.825…….this yields…..7.1, add 1, then 8.1 Hope this helps! You might be getting confused with the square of 3.5!!! DJ Saoco

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#29 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 12:46:11 PM(UTC) Thanks RelaxedPRKid, only just checked the forums. And yes Relaxed is right Duke, check your steps on what you are doing. Make sure you have the right No. of brackets! Unless your using an ordinary calculator, you'll have to work everything out the numerator then divide it be the denominator. RR

Rank: Driver's Permit		#30 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:20:34 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Originally Posted by: InsXicht291 Hi, for the Ferrari 312T i get a Rear Rebound value of 30, but i can only set it up to 13. What now? :D Greetz Edit: Equation: ((0.63x1263x9.8)/(65.4x2^2))+1=30.8 Put it to 13.0 Thanks, that's what I did ;)

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#31 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 2:49:28 PM(UTC) Ok ive retyped this your first example ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 making sure i typed everything correctly and still get the same result 1.4993215739484396 Even if past the math from this page into Bing (which has a built in calculator) i get this ((46 % (1422 * 9.8)) / (73.7 * (3.5^2))) + 1 = 1.05095118 Even using an online calculator such as http://www.picalc.com/ gives me the same result even after just a copy past from this site so what am i doing wrong i cant work this out lol. Clean Racing with the AI VIDEO

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#32 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:28:11 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: InsXicht291 Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Originally Posted by: InsXicht291 Hi, for the Ferrari 312T i get a Rear Rebound value of 30, but i can only set it up to 13. What now? :D Greetz Edit: Equation: ((0.63x1263x9.8)/(65.4x2^2))+1=30.8 Put it to 13.0 Thanks, that's what I did ;) try this instead: ((.46 * 1422 * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#33 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 3:51:06 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Ok ive retyped this your first example ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 making sure i typed everything correctly and still get the same result 1.4993215739484396 Even if past the math from this page into Bing (which has a built in calculator) i get this ((46 % (1422 * 9.8)) / (73.7 * (3.5^2))) + 1 = 1.05095118 Even using an online calculator such as http://www.picalc.com/ gives me the same result even after just a copy past from this site so what am i doing wrong i cant work this out lol. Just typed it in again and got 8.10 (to 3 sf) Also just went to that Online Calculator and put in this: ((0.46(1422)9.8))/(73.7(3.5^2)))+1 And that was also 8.10!

Rank: On the Podium		#34 Posted : Tuesday, March 4, 2014 6:04:53 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Ok ive retyped this your first example ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 making sure i typed everything correctly and still get the same result 1.4993215739484396 Even if past the math from this page into Bing (which has a built in calculator) i get this ((46 % (1422 * 9.8)) / (73.7 * (3.5^2))) + 1 = 1.05095118 Even using an online calculator such as http://www.picalc.com/ gives me the same result even after just a copy past from this site so what am i doing wrong i cant work this out lol. Seems you are missing parenthesis…..Make sure to open & close the parenthesis at the appropriate equation areas. Make sure after you calculate the division, then, you add the +1 DJ Saoco

Rank: Racing Permit		#35 Posted : Thursday, March 6, 2014 4:09:14 PM(UTC) what is the (to3sf) about? BTW, I just put this on one of my cars and have never had one bottom out so hard.lol Also, I ran this math on your OST's and they don't even come close to what you have on your tunes. So, what's the catch 22 here? Edited by user Thursday, March 6, 2014 4:36:31 PM(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

Rank: B-Class Racing License		#36 Posted : Thursday, March 6, 2014 7:07:56 PM(UTC) I use my scientific calculator app on my Android Galaxy S3 or HP tablet. I get the correct answers. The first time I was entering wrong, however not anymore :) His Damping & Tire pressure formula has got my CRX really dialed in. I use another app to get my Springs Rate # & Anti-roll bars # based off drive type, WD%, tire size & aero lbs (if applicable). Once I get those numbers, I tweak the Sway bars for my driving taste (I prefer fwd). Adding the specs for tire pressure & damping has lowered my PB in my CRX by 2 tenths or little more on my favorite tracks. With tire pressure & damping on point, I honestly think I can feel better what the car is doing on the track (Thrustmaster TX). I can push a smidge harder thru turns as well. Having even more fun racing. I'm glad the Forza community has come up with ways to dial in a cars suspension & tires. Terrific community & hopefully I might run into you online in C Class with my CRX. Edited by user Thursday, March 6, 2014 7:12:51 PM(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

Rank: Racing Permit		#37 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 3:08:49 AM(UTC) Originally Posted by: gangrel I use my scientific calculator app on my Android Galaxy S3 or HP tablet. I get the correct answers. The first time I was entering wrong, however not anymore :) His Damping & Tire pressure formula has got my CRX really dialed in. I use another app to get my Springs Rate # & Anti-roll bars # based off drive type, WD%, tire size & aero lbs (if applicable). Once I get those numbers, I tweak the Sway bars for my driving taste (I prefer fwd). Adding the specs for tire pressure & damping has lowered my PB in my CRX by 2 tenths or little more on my favorite tracks. With tire pressure & damping on point, I honestly think I can feel better what the car is doing on the track (Thrustmaster TX). I can push a smidge harder thru turns as well. Having even more fun racing. I'm glad the Forza community has come up with ways to dial in a cars suspension & tires. Terrific community & hopefully I might run into you online in C Class with my CRX. Let me restate what I saying in a more practical way. When using the formula for damping from Roadrunner, which I did correctly using a scientific calculator, the numbers were very low for damping causing the car to bottom out under hard braking. A 3000lb car needs more than 1.4FB to keep the car from bottoming unless you have the springs set to some astronomical number (900lb or more) which will cause unwanted results. Also, to make sure I was getting the correct numbers, I used his formula with his numbers several times to make sure I was getting the same numbers he was and I did every time I tried it.

Rank: On the Podium 1 user liked this post.		#38 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 3:51:59 AM(UTC) Originally Posted by: Murderous II Originally Posted by: gangrel I use my scientific calculator app on my Android Galaxy S3 or HP tablet. I get the correct answers. The first time I was entering wrong, however not anymore :) His Damping & Tire pressure formula has got my CRX really dialed in. I use another app to get my Springs Rate # & Anti-roll bars # based off drive type, WD%, tire size & aero lbs (if applicable). Once I get those numbers, I tweak the Sway bars for my driving taste (I prefer fwd). Adding the specs for tire pressure & damping has lowered my PB in my CRX by 2 tenths or little more on my favorite tracks. With tire pressure & damping on point, I honestly think I can feel better what the car is doing on the track (Thrustmaster TX). I can push a smidge harder thru turns as well. Having even more fun racing. I'm glad the Forza community has come up with ways to dial in a cars suspension & tires. Terrific community & hopefully I might run into you online in C Class with my CRX. Let me restate what I saying in a more practical way. When using the formula for damping from Roadrunner, which I did correctly using a scientific calculator, the numbers were very low for damping causing the car to bottom out under hard braking. A 3000lb car needs more than 1.4FB to keep the car from bottoming unless you have the springs set to some astronomical number (900lb or more) which will cause unwanted results. Also, to make sure I was getting the correct numbers, I used his formula with his numbers several times to make sure I was getting the same numbers he was and I did every time I tried it. I don't use a calculator but you are wrong. Car won't do as you say, I have more than half my cars with springs under 40% on the bar and bump at 1.0/1.0. In fact, if you unlocked everyone in the top 10's leaderboard cars and lobby cars I'd take a guess considering I have a lot of them that more than 70% are the same.

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#39 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 5:46:15 AM(UTC) Just a heads up I've fixed the problem I was getting with ONR RoadRunner's example math. In his example for Front Rebound: ((46% (1422) * 9.8) / (73.7 * 3.5^2)) + 1 = 8.1 (to 3 significant figures). Well I removed the % and changed the 46% to 0.46 and now the math works my example with the fixed math ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 The setting are too soft for my liking making my laptimes slower so i will stick to my way of setting the dampers. Clean Racing with the AI VIDEO

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#40 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 10:40:46 AM(UTC) 46% is 23/50 as a fraction, also 0.46 as a decimal. There is no problem with the Maths. Depends on which "bright spark" knows what a percentage is as a decimal.

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#41 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 10:49:59 AM(UTC) Originally Posted by: gangrel I use my scientific calculator app on my Android Galaxy S3 or HP tablet. I get the correct answers. The first time I was entering wrong, however not anymore :) His Damping & Tire pressure formula has got my CRX really dialed in. I use another app to get my Springs Rate # & Anti-roll bars # based off drive type, WD%, tire size & aero lbs (if applicable). Once I get those numbers, I tweak the Sway bars for my driving taste (I prefer fwd). Adding the specs for tire pressure & damping has lowered my PB in my CRX by 2 tenths or little more on my favorite tracks. With tire pressure & damping on point, I honestly think I can feel better what the car is doing on the track (Thrustmaster TX). I can push a smidge harder thru turns as well. Having even more fun racing. I'm glad the Forza community has come up with ways to dial in a cars suspension & tires. Terrific community & hopefully I might run into you online in C Class with my CRX. Thanks gangrel! I'm going to tweak the formula soon anyway and include downforce. You may get even more time out of your car with it being a bit more accurate! =] I'm also working on a google docs spreadsheet as well which'll make things easier. RR

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#42 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 2:24:29 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner 46% is 23/50 as a fraction, also 0.46 as a decimal. There is no problem with the Maths. Depends on which "bright spark" knows what a percentage is as a decimal. As i said using your example ((46%(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 gives me 1.4993215739484396 But when i remove the % and use 0.46 instead ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 i get the correct result The setting are too soft for my liking after testing it on a couple of cars so its no big loss i will stick to setting my own dampers but i was interested in getting the math working to see what results it gave. Clean Racing with the AI VIDEO

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#43 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 7:59:56 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner 46% is 23/50 as a fraction, also 0.46 as a decimal. There is no problem with the Maths. Depends on which "bright spark" knows what a percentage is as a decimal. As i said using your example ((46%(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 gives me 1.4993215739484396 But when i remove the % and use 0.46 instead ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 i get the correct result The setting are too soft for my liking after testing it on a couple of cars so its no big loss i will stick to setting my own dampers but i was interested in getting the math working to see what results it gave. You do know that 46% can be expressed as a decimal which is 0.46? Thus both are correct - Your just typing in something wrong! THE MATHS ISN'T WRONG! And the settings vary for each car. If your testing these settings on R Class and above, they don't work as good. So I'm going to tweak the formula and include downforce. RR

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#44 Posted : Friday, March 7, 2014 8:35:29 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: TG Wormburner Originally Posted by: Murderous II Originally Posted by: gangrel I use my scientific calculator app on my Android Galaxy S3 or HP tablet. I get the correct answers. The first time I was entering wrong, however not anymore :) His Damping & Tire pressure formula has got my CRX really dialed in. I use another app to get my Springs Rate # & Anti-roll bars # based off drive type, WD%, tire size & aero lbs (if applicable). Once I get those numbers, I tweak the Sway bars for my driving taste (I prefer fwd). Adding the specs for tire pressure & damping has lowered my PB in my CRX by 2 tenths or little more on my favorite tracks. With tire pressure & damping on point, I honestly think I can feel better what the car is doing on the track (Thrustmaster TX). I can push a smidge harder thru turns as well. Having even more fun racing. I'm glad the Forza community has come up with ways to dial in a cars suspension & tires. Terrific community & hopefully I might run into you online in C Class with my CRX. Let me restate what I saying in a more practical way. When using the formula for damping from Roadrunner, which I did correctly using a scientific calculator, the numbers were very low for damping causing the car to bottom out under hard braking. A 3000lb car needs more than 1.4FB to keep the car from bottoming unless you have the springs set to some astronomical number (900lb or more) which will cause unwanted results. Also, to make sure I was getting the correct numbers, I used his formula with his numbers several times to make sure I was getting the same numbers he was and I did every time I tried it. I don't use a calculator but you are wrong. Car won't do as you say, I have more than half my cars with springs under 40% on the bar and bump at 1.0/1.0. In fact, if you unlocked everyone in the top 10's leaderboard cars and lobby cars I'd take a guess considering I have a lot of them that more than 70% are the same. Worm is right Murderous! I have many cars with 13 rebound Front and Rear with 1 Bump Front and Rear. Your springs must be too soft! Dampening controls the rate at which vibrations caused by bumps are controlled. By this, I mean the vibrations (Kinetic energy) is converted to Thermal energy. The stiffness is the rate or frequency at which this takes place.

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#45 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 12:06:18 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner 46% is 23/50 as a fraction, also 0.46 as a decimal. There is no problem with the Maths. Depends on which "bright spark" knows what a percentage is as a decimal. As i said using your example ((46%(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 gives me 1.4993215739484396 But when i remove the % and use 0.46 instead ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 i get the correct result The setting are too soft for my liking after testing it on a couple of cars so its no big loss i will stick to setting my own dampers but i was interested in getting the math working to see what results it gave. You do know that 46% can be expressed as a decimal which is 0.46? Thus both are correct - Your just typing in something wrong! THE MATHS ISN'T WRONG! And the settings vary for each car. If your testing these settings on R Class and above, they don't work as good. So I'm going to tweak the formula and include downforce. RR I didnt type the formula in I copied and pasted the example from your post straight into the calculator to make sure I got the same answer so I didnt type anything wrong. Yes I know that the setting vary for each car once I got the formula to work I changed the values to match whatever car I was tuning for and as I said they are too soft for my liking so no big deal I will carry on tuning the dampers myself. Clean Racing with the AI VIDEO

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#46 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 3:23:22 PM(UTC) Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner 46% is 23/50 as a fraction, also 0.46 as a decimal. There is no problem with the Maths. Depends on which "bright spark" knows what a percentage is as a decimal. As i said using your example ((46%(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 gives me 1.4993215739484396 But when i remove the % and use 0.46 instead ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 i get the correct result The setting are too soft for my liking after testing it on a couple of cars so its no big loss i will stick to setting my own dampers but i was interested in getting the math working to see what results it gave. You do know that 46% can be expressed as a decimal which is 0.46? Thus both are correct - Your just typing in something wrong! THE MATHS ISN'T WRONG! And the settings vary for each car. If your testing these settings on R Class and above, they don't work as good. So I'm going to tweak the formula and include downforce. RR I didnt type the formula in I copied and pasted the example from your post straight into the calculator to make sure I got the same answer so I didnt type anything wrong. Yes I know that the setting vary for each car once I got the formula to work I changed the values to match whatever car I was tuning for and as I said they are too soft for my liking so no big deal I will carry on tuning the dampers myself. That's your problem there, "I copied and pasted the example from your post straight into the calculator to make sure I got the same answer." This wont give you the right answer! You have to input the values yourself, not copy and paste it, LOL!

Rank: Driver's Permit		#47 Posted : Saturday, March 8, 2014 3:32:32 PM(UTC) Could tweaking the formula to include downforce be as simple as just adding the downforce weight to the total car weight? EG: Front and Rear Rebound = ((WB% (LBS+AF) * 9.8) / (LSR * RH^2)) + 1 AF= Aero Downforce in LBS BTW thanks for coming up with these mate, I love tuning but don't have the spare time to put the hours into it. Edited by user Saturday, March 8, 2014 3:36:57 PM(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified

Rank: D-Class Racing License		#48 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 5:25:56 AM(UTC) Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner Originally Posted by: Duke Odyssey Originally Posted by: ONR RoadRunner 46% is 23/50 as a fraction, also 0.46 as a decimal. There is no problem with the Maths. Depends on which "bright spark" knows what a percentage is as a decimal. As i said using your example ((46%(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 gives me 1.4993215739484396 But when i remove the % and use 0.46 instead ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 i get the correct result The setting are too soft for my liking after testing it on a couple of cars so its no big loss i will stick to setting my own dampers but i was interested in getting the math working to see what results it gave. You do know that 46% can be expressed as a decimal which is 0.46? Thus both are correct - Your just typing in something wrong! THE MATHS ISN'T WRONG! And the settings vary for each car. If your testing these settings on R Class and above, they don't work as good. So I'm going to tweak the formula and include downforce. RR I didnt type the formula in I copied and pasted the example from your post straight into the calculator to make sure I got the same answer so I didnt type anything wrong. Yes I know that the setting vary for each car once I got the formula to work I changed the values to match whatever car I was tuning for and as I said they are too soft for my liking so no big deal I will carry on tuning the dampers myself. That's your problem there, "I copied and pasted the example from your post straight into the calculator to make sure I got the same answer." This wont give you the right answer! You have to input the values yourself, not copy and paste it, LOL! I copied and pasted your example to make sure the answer given was the same as the answer in your example if it was then I know that I needed to replace the figures with the figures from the car I wanted to tune. Try this copy and paste your first example into the calculator http://www.picalc.com/ then look at the answer given its not the same as your example answer so the formula didnt work so i changed to % to 0.46 Your formula on the first page the answer should be 8.1 per your example but isnt (ive said this all along): ((46%(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 this gives 1.4993215739484396 as the answer which isnt the same as your answer in your example so the formula is wong Now paste this into the calculator ((0.46(1422)9.8)/(73.73.5^2)) + 1 and you will get the correct answer of 8.1 as per your example. So copy and pasing does work the formula just needed changing to make it work. Why your example doesnt work but removing the % and changing the 46% to 0.46 makes it work I dont know but anyway as ive said the setting are too soft for my liking I perfer a stiffer setup both springs and dampers. Clean Racing with the AI VIDEO

Rank: C-Class Racing License		#49 Posted : Sunday, March 9, 2014 8:55:24 AM(UTC) Tried it using the % and I got 8.1 so YOU'RE doing it wrong! And I'll repeat myself again... 46% = 23/50 = 0.46 (There is NO difference) And btw when there is no difference, the answer doesn't change! And if you know anything about computer coding, you would know not to copy and paste, hence why you got the wrong answer! I have a graphical calculator which cost £150 or $250! - I think it'll be more accurate them some online calculator! Go back to school! Hopefully they'll also tell you 'again' that 46% = 0.46! And I understand you prefer stiffer settings but that's personal preference. RR

Rank: Racing Permit		#50 Posted : Tuesday, March 11, 2014 9:15:50 PM(UTC) I have been tinkering with your formula for a few days and I haven't gotten a single rebound setting over 9.0, although most of the bump settings are very low, mostly below 2.0. Any idea why I'm not getting these super high rebound settings you were talking about?

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